Fujifilm = poor value?

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Nikon does have WA zooms for APS C, but they are not fast.

Also, the Tokina 11-16 /11-20 has a good reputation for sharpness, though with too much flare when shooting toward the sun.

I'm surprised and frustrated that no one makes an UWA APS prime, like 10mm 2.8. (Samyang, but it has several disadvantages). Given Fuji's commitment to APS-C, which I applaud, I'm surprised they don't offer this.
As JNR said, the Fuji 10-24 is an excellent lens and you really don't need super fast UWA zooms as you won't be blurring much background anyway and the OIS on that lens enables you shoot at a 1/2 second with some attention to technique.

Bob
 
The Nikon Z6 is more expensive than the D7500 as well.
 
OP... As others mentioned, you've missed several very serious points here that can account for the price difference. The capability of the two camera bodies, their construction and performance are quite far apart from each other. As for the lenses, you're comparing excellent Fuji glass - materials, craftsmanship, optics and also resale value - against what are basically generic third party cheap lenses.

To be fair, I personally don't think Fuji has the best value at the low end of the market. I don't really care for the XT-20, XT-100 or XA bodies - or the XC lenses. It's a toss-up and the Tamrons, Tokinas, Sigmas available on a cheap Nikon or Canon body might be overall a more compelling buy.

But.. you can't compare this junk to the X-T3 (or X-Pro or X-H lines) and XF lenses.
I've shot my fair share of Tamrons, Tokinas and even the most highly rated of the Sigma lenses... and they simply don't yield the consistent image quality and AF response I get from the one XC lens I own (the 50-230)... which performs similarly to my XF lenses.

[ATTACH alt=""Weakest" image quality setting... longest FL, wide open (so to speak)."]2137649[/ATTACH]
"Weakest" image quality setting... longest FL, wide open (so to speak).

The lens will track fine with the X-T20 in even seriously overcast conditions. I just wanted to show that it has good sharpness at low ISO. Very surprising - value beyond expectations. Superb for traveling light.

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JNR
 

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JNR wrote
I've shot my fair share of Tamrons, Tokinas and even the most highly rated of the Sigma lenses... and they simply don't yield the consistent image quality and AF response I get from the one XC lens I own (the 50-230)... which performs similarly to my XF lenses.

The lens will track fine with the X-T20 in even seriously overcast conditions. I just wanted to show that it has good sharpness at low ISO. Very surprising - value beyond expectations. Superb for traveling light.-
JNR
Well put JNR - we're getting slightly off topic but yes the XC's are terrific and under valued. I've been beating that drum for years. I own a lot of lenses including some of Fuji's XF lenses but the two I use the most on a weekly basis are the the XC 16-50 and XC 50-230 which I always keep mounted on my two bodies. My other lenses, I use for more special purpose but for grab-and-go you cannot beat the XC lenses.
 
My goal with a faster UWA is indoor, no-flash photography. A wide fast prime would be ideal, but, as I said, no one makes one.

Everyone insists on primes for best IQ, but strangely not in this category.
 
My entire bag of Nikon photo stuff was recently stolen (break-in, Eastern Europe). So I'm now free to change systems.

As I implied, I'm looking for smaller, lighter for travel. So mirrorless makes sense. The price category is close. The XTs are smaller than Nikon's D7xxx bodies (and look cooler). But the lenses are the same size (unsurprisingly, I suppose) but a lot more money. The 18-135 is about $300 more than the Nikon 18-140. The Nikon is even less when bundled with a D7200.

The Tokina is a 2.8 UWA. Nikon doesn't offer that. So that's would I'd get if I go Nikon again. And I was impressed by the sharpness of the Tokina's 11-16 before it was stolen.

I thought the Fuji 8-16 2.8 would be great, but it's just too much $$.

My comparison is not out of the ballpark as you suggest. Both cameras are very capable. As I said, out in the field, there won't be that much practical difference in image quality.

So I was wondering why the huge price differences.
 
My entire bag of Nikon photo stuff was recently stolen (break-in, Eastern Europe). So I'm now free to change systems.

As I implied, I'm looking for smaller, lighter for travel. So mirrorless makes sense. The price category is close. The XTs are smaller than Nikon's D7xxx bodies (and look cooler). But the lenses are the same size (unsurprisingly, I suppose) but a lot more money. The 18-135 is about $300 more than the Nikon 18-140. The Nikon is even less when bundled with a D7200.

The Tokina is a 2.8 UWA. Nikon doesn't offer that. So that's would I'd get if I go Nikon again. And I was impressed by the sharpness of the Tokina's 11-16 before it was stolen.

I thought the Fuji 8-16 2.8 would be great, but it's just too much $$.

My comparison is not out of the ballpark as you suggest. Both cameras are very capable. As I said, out in the field, there won't be that much practical difference in image quality.

So I was wondering why the huge price differences.
Well ignoring your OP as it was tad offish for someone wanting help.

Trying to compare Fuji’s latest not yet available 8-16 to an old third party tokina is why the pricing is so far out of whack.

so as a compromise why not look to the Zeiss touit 12mm f2.8 prime or the Samyang 10mm f2.8 ( even cheaper as manual focus) or Fuji 10-24f4 with the XT2 or 3
 
My goal with a faster UWA is indoor, no-flash photography. A wide fast prime would be ideal, but, as I said, no one makes one.
OIS on the 10-24 is your friend in these situations and a zoom provides the advantage of precise framing. Also a high quality f4 zoom like the Fuji is most likely considerably better across the frame at f4 than a faster prime might be wide open. You're shooting an interior so you'll want excellent IQ across the frame.


This taken a few weeks ago with the 10-24 on my X-T2.

My experience is that fast primes are not your friend for this type of shooting. If you had a 12mm prime chances are you'll want the extra 2mm in many situations. If it's too wide then you'll think "I'll just crop in post" but then you're throwing away resolution. If you have a 24 MP sensor then why make it an 18 or 16 MP just because you don't carry the right lens. A 10-24 zoom enables you to get the framing and composition right in camera. The OIS enables you to stop down for the best possible IQ across the frame.
Everyone insists on primes for best IQ, but strangely not in this category.
Check out what one of the most respected lens testers on the WEB has to say about the Fuji 10-24. It's for the most part on par with Fuji's own 14mmf2.8 and actually slightly better than the 12mmf2.8 Touit.

Bob

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http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
 

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The question why people choose much more expensive x-t3 to Nikon is very similar to question why people serious about photo editing usually choose more expensive Mac over Windows. The answer is very simple. First, most graphic software works much better on Mac than Windows and second, using Mac is much more fun. The same applies to your question about cameras.
 
So I was thinking X-T3 over Nikon D7500 for its lighter, smaller size. But the Fuji system is hugely more expensive.

D7500, 18-140, Tokina 11-20 2.8 = $1920 (current B&H prices).

X-T3, xf 18-135, xf 8-16 2.8 = $4350 !!

Really, over twice as much?

And the body may be smaller but the comparable lenses are basically the same size/weight.

$2000 for the 8-16 (with a useless zoom range) is FOUR times more than the Tokina 11-20; granted not as wide but four times more?.

(Annoyingly, no one makes an UWA APS-C prime, like a rectilinear 10mm 2.8.)

Fuji seems like such a poor value I've given up this idea.
Why complain to us? Just buy the nikon. It will be fine. You need specialty lenses and these lenses are expensive. Be thankful for Tokina. In a few years, reassess the mirrorless scene.

We get it that the real reason you complained is because you really want the Fuji.
 
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So I was wondering why the huge price differences.
In a few words, you get what you pay for.

Metal vs plastic, weather sealed vs not, EVF vs OVF, world class glass vs multiple third party options, xtrans vs Bayer, DSLR vs mirrorless, video capabilities, color science, size, form factor, controls, operations and fun factor... there’s a lot going on under the hood that doesn’t make this a terribly even comparison (aside from fitting in some of the same budget brackets).

To wit, most modern cameras can make nice images in capable enough hands, but in pretty much every category, the Fuji is simply a better, more capable machine.

Rent one if you can and spend some time with it. That will help you decide if the premium over the Nikon is worth it. May not be for you... may be a step closer to photographic nirvana.
 
And I was impressed by the sharpness of the Tokina's 11-16 before it was stolen.
Then you would like the sharpness of the Samyang 12mm F2.

Tokina 11-20 vs Samyang 12mm.

Value for money is a subjective thing. I came to Fuji after 15 years of Canon Rebels and the cheaper budget lenses. Using the Rebels, I always felt like a 2nd class citizen dreaming of Canon's "exclusive L-glass".

With Fuji now I don't have that feeling. Just about all of their lenses are of very high quality. Now I just forget about the gear as it is as good as anything out there and get on with concentrating on the artistic/creative aspects of photography.

So I feel my Fuji gear is better value for money than my Canon Rebel gear.

When you compare a Fuji lens against cheaper budget lenses, you realize value for money just doesn't mean the cheapest....



 Canon and Sigma 55-200, 100% crop
Canon and Sigma 55-200, 100% crop



 Fuji 55-200, 100% crop
Fuji 55-200, 100% crop



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DSLRs have been around for years now and are very advanced. I haven’t seen a shot that was taken on MILC that a DSLR can’t. MILC is just easier to use if you’re new in the game, but if a DSLR is ok for you, you’ll save a whole lot of money. With the extra money you can go on vacation.
 
DSLRs have been around for years now and are very advanced. I haven’t seen a shot that was taken on MILC that a DSLR can’t. MILC is just easier to use if you’re new in the game, but if a DSLR is ok for you, you’ll save a whole lot of money. With the extra money you can go on vacation.
It’s not about shots that can or can’t be taken... and it never was. From an ease of use standpoint, mirrorless wins every time, if for no other reason than you get a direct view of the image in your viewfinder, rather than having to guess at exposure. I don’t want to start a long extended discussion about mirrorless vs. DSLRs here, since it’s all been done a million times before. But suggesting, as you implied, that mirrorless is somehow for beginners is... well, sort of a crock IMHO.

Trying to argue this point in a mirrorless camera forum is also sort of pointless and might start getting into the realm of trolling, so I’d recommend taking care as to where we take the discussion.
 
The X-T3 is more than a match for D7500, try either switching to the X-T2 or the D500.

Then, on the lens aperture isn't everything. Why don't you try the 10-24 instead? It's still a hair wider than the Tokina, plus it's a first party lens.

I'll leave the cost calculation as an exercise.
 
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I agree with the OP. I love Fuji but wish Sigma made FX lenses. I bought M43 lenses like candy bars, but buying a Fuji is a whole thing.

Sigma said if they see 20% more camera sales they will join the club. Fingers crossed as their latest lens is a 56mm f1.4 for under $500 and their 60mm f2.8 cost me approx $170 new. They will both be sharper than their similar Fuji lenses and they have pretty smooth bokeh. They also do the wonderful, spectacular 30mm f1.4 for just $330 which has modern focusing. Their 16mm f1.4 looks a similar size to the Fuji 16mm f1.4 but it is $440 and will be on a par with Fuji's, which I think is about twice the price. If Sigma join then Fuji might have to get on the ball more: lower prices and remake the old mechanical focus lenses. Until then I am carefully and slowly picking Fuji lenses and using more vintage lenses.
 
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I agree with the OP. I love Fuji but wish Sigma made FX lenses. I bought M43 lenses like candy bars, but buying a Fuji is a whole thing.

Sigma said if they see 20% more camera sales they will join the club. Fingers crossed as their latest lens is a 56mm f1.4 for under $500 and their 60mm f2.8 cost me approx $170 new. They will both be sharper than their similar Fuji lenses and they have pretty smooth bokeh. They also do the wonderful, spectacular 30mm f1.4 for just $330 which has modern focusing. Their 16mm f1.4 looks a similar size to the Fuji 16mm f1.4 but it is $440 and will be on a par with Fuji's, which I think is about twice the price. If Sigma join then Fuji might have to get on the ball more: lower prices and remake the old mechanical focus lenses. Until then I am carefully and slowly picking Fuji lenses and using more vintage lenses.
Honest question - where is Fuji lacking here? They make some of the best glass around, and it seems speculative at best to say that non-existent Sigma lenses will put Fuji on notice. Comparatively speaking, Zeiss makes excellent glass, but the Touit lenses don’t meaningfully surpass first party options. Market share is one thing, but Fuji also set a pretty high bar.
 
So I was thinking X-T3 over Nikon D7500 for its lighter, smaller size. But the Fuji system is hugely more expensive.

D7500, 18-140, Tokina 11-20 2.8 = $1920 (current B&H prices).

X-T3, xf 18-135, xf 8-16 2.8 = $4350 !!

Really, over twice as much?
TRUE, even when you out a Canon dSLR vs Canon EOS-R, DSLR options are always cheaper. For me, DSLR will always stick around because DSLR (as a system including lens) are far more affordable than M43 / Fuji / or Sony mirrorless.

I think you need to honestly ask yourself how much you're willing to spend between Price vs Practicality vs Portability. If price the most important, than sticking with DSLR is your best options.
 
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