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User sensor cleaning not recommended by Nikon??

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as1mov

as1mov

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Hi,

I was reading this article: https://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/camera-database/nikon-z-mirrorless-cameras/nikon-z6z7-blog/

One of the disadvantages of using Z7 over the D850 would be that
  • Nikon does not recommend user sensor cleaning
That worries me a bit as I use a lot of old manual lenses, which I switch oft during in the course of a shooting. I had actually heard the contrary, that sensor cleaning is the same as for previous Nikon DSLRs, no special precautions.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/149089857@N03/
 
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Name a manufacturer who does recommend sensor cleaning by the user? Other than the 'sensor clean' done through the menus . . . that is.
 
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as1mov said:
Hi,

I was reading this article: https://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/camera-database/nikon-z-mirrorless-cameras/nikon-z6z7-blog/

One of the disadvantages of using Z7 over the D850 would be that
  • Nikon does not recommend user sensor cleaning
That worries me a bit as I use a lot of old manual lenses, which I switch oft during in the course of a shooting. I had actually heard the contrary, that sensor cleaning is the same as for previous Nikon DSLRs, no special precautions.
Click to expand...
I believe that this warning has more to do with the sensitivity of the IBIS system than with the sensor itself. But, sooner of later, it will need to be cleaned
 
commiebiker said:
as1mov said:
Hi,

I was reading this article: https://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/camera-database/nikon-z-mirrorless-cameras/nikon-z6z7-blog/

One of the disadvantages of using Z7 over the D850 would be that
  • Nikon does not recommend user sensor cleaning
That worries me a bit as I use a lot of old manual lenses, which I switch oft during in the course of a shooting. I had actually heard the contrary, that sensor cleaning is the same as for previous Nikon DSLRs, no special precautions.
Click to expand...
I believe that this warning has more to do with the sensitivity of the IBIS system than with the sensor itself. But, sooner of later, it will need to be cleaned
Click to expand...
I thought the Z7 locks the IBIS at power down?
 
http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/c...rless-cameras/reader-questions-about-the.html

Answering a question from a one of his readers:

"Can I clean the sensor on my Z6/Z7?"

Yes. And Nikon did the right thing here: when the camera is off, the sensor VR is locked mechanically. Other IBIS type solutions I've seen to date don't lock the sensor position, which led Olympus to disclaim user sensor cleaning, while early Sony A7 models tended to have IBIS failures until Sony beefed up the mechanism.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/149089857@N03/
 
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as1mov said:
http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/c...rless-cameras/reader-questions-about-the.html

Answering a question from a one of his readers:

"Can I clean the sensor on my Z6/Z7?"

Yes. And Nikon did the right thing here: when the camera is off, the sensor VR is locked mechanically. Other IBIS type solutions I've seen to date don't lock the sensor position, which led Olympus to disclaim user sensor cleaning, while early Sony A7 models tended to have IBIS failures until Sony beefed up the mechanism.
Click to expand...
Oh cool, that is good to know
 
I'll wait to hear a few user reports from folks who have cleaned theirs. I agree that manufacturers often dissuade users from trying to clean their own, but I don't suspect those 'pro cleaning services' that many large photo stores provide will refuse to do the Z6/Z7. If they do then I will be more concerned about doing it myself.

I've always cleaned my own sensors and with a bit of care it's not that hard or dangerous to do (when you're awake, alert and sober). If the (1) in-camera cleaning isn't enough then I'll (2) use a blower. If that's not enough I use (3) a Visible Dust sensor brush. If something's really stuck on then I'll do (4) a wet clean using I Photographic Solutions sensor swabs).

It's the step 4 that has me most concerned as it's the only one that puts any pressure on the sensor/AA-filter. I'm pretty convinced that if the camera is sent to Nikon it would be cleaned using the same methods they use for all their DSLRs but prefer to get confirmation from someone else first ;-)

The Z6/7 might prove to be even easier to clean as the sensor's much closer to the opening.
 
Russell Proulx said:
It's the step 4 that has me most concerned as it's the only one that puts any pressure on the sensor/AA-filter. I'm pretty convinced that if the camera is sent to Nikon it would be cleaned using the same methods they use for all their DSLRs but prefer to get confirmation from someone else first ;-)
Click to expand...
That's the rub isn't it. A service centre technician would presumably have a lot more experience than a casual user, however. Still, if you have all the right equipment and a sure, jeweller's hand, then I guess you will be OK.
 
syberman7 said:
syberman7 wrote:

if you have all the right equipment and a sure, jeweller's hand, then I guess you will be OK.
Click to expand...
I don't know about the need for a 'sure, Jeweler's hand' but it helps if you're not a total klutz when working with your hands. Like many things it's pretty easy if you know how and most folks are made to believe it's a really difficult thing to do and are then too afraid to try. There are lots of videos out there showing how.
 
Virtual Photon said:
Name a manufacturer who does recommend sensor cleaning by the user? Other than the 'sensor clean' done through the menus . . . that is.
Click to expand...
Nikon, for one.

Here is the D750 manual:

272e003ade924e3a8ccba8c9094af4ff.jpg.png

86617f1d381140918da07b214a9a20d0.jpg.png

But in the Z7 manual, it is a very different message:

5741fa0e18cd4ff581bbe74fac9186f6.jpg.png

0874cf698d8247daac282d7b9a11fa3d.jpg.png
 
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It's incredibly easy, I think people are just scared. Hell, I've full spectrum modified 4 of my own cameras, taken the things apart down past the sensor, just have to get over the fear of breaking stuff and trust that a camera is not made out of glass.
 
beatboxa said:
Virtual Photon said:
Name a manufacturer who does recommend sensor cleaning by the user? Other than the 'sensor clean' done through the menus . . . that is.
Click to expand...
Nikon, for one.

Here is the D750 manual:

272e003ade924e3a8ccba8c9094af4ff.jpg.png

86617f1d381140918da07b214a9a20d0.jpg.png

But in the Z7 manual, it is a very different message:

5741fa0e18cd4ff581bbe74fac9186f6.jpg.png

0874cf698d8247daac282d7b9a11fa3d.jpg.png
Click to expand...
And if you go to pg 451 in the D750 manual, they say

"Nikon recommends that the filter be cleaned only by Nikon-authorized service personnel."

Explaining how to do something is not the same as recommending that you do it. In fact they explicitly recommend that it only be done by Nikon.
 
Virtual Photon said:
beatboxa said:
Virtual Photon said:
Name a manufacturer who does recommend sensor cleaning by the user? Other than the 'sensor clean' done through the menus . . . that is.
Click to expand...
Nikon, for one.

Here is the D750 manual:

272e003ade924e3a8ccba8c9094af4ff.jpg.png

86617f1d381140918da07b214a9a20d0.jpg.png

But in the Z7 manual, it is a very different message:

5741fa0e18cd4ff581bbe74fac9186f6.jpg.png

0874cf698d8247daac282d7b9a11fa3d.jpg.png
Click to expand...
And if you go to pg 451 in the D750 manual, they say

"Nikon recommends that the filter be cleaned only by Nikon-authorized service personnel."

Explaining how to do something is not the same as recommending that you do it. In fact they explicitly recommend that it only be done by Nikon.
Click to expand...
Meh, it's absurdly easy to clean, you don't actually touch the sensor given the fact that there are multiple layers of glass cover it, you'd have to do some insanely aggressive swabbing to do any damage at all (saying this as someone who's literally disassembled, desoldered, and modified multiple cameras myself).
 
Virtual Photon said:
beatboxa said:
Virtual Photon said:
Name a manufacturer who does recommend sensor cleaning by the user? Other than the 'sensor clean' done through the menus . . . that is.
Click to expand...
Nikon, for one.

Here is the D750 manual:

But in the Z7 manual, it is a very different message:
Click to expand...
And if you go to pg 451 in the D750 manual, they say

"Nikon recommends that the filter be cleaned only by Nikon-authorized service personnel."

Explaining how to do something is not the same as recommending that you do it. In fact they explicitly recommend that it only be done by Nikon.
Click to expand...
Ok, then why don't we check out Canon's site, which is similar (from https://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/capturing_the_image/sensor_cleaning.do)
  • "Whatever precautions you take, one day the sensor will need cleaning. Canon approves only two methods. The first method you can try yourself using a rubber air blower. The second involves sending the camera to a Canon Service Centre.
    To use the air blower technique, switch the camera to its sensor-cleaning mode. This does not actually clean the sensor - it just gives access to the sensor by raising the reflex mirror and opening the shutter blades. It is recommended that you run the camera from a mains power supply, via a DC coupler, when using this mode, so that you are not relying on battery power to keep the shutter open."
Or Fuji:
(http://fujifilm-dsc.com/en/manual/x-t2/technical_notes/sensor_cleaning/index.html)
  • Dust that can not be removed using USER SETTING > SENSOR CLEANING can be removed manually as described below.Note that there will be a charge to repair or replace the image sensor if it is damaged during cleaning.
    1. Use a blower (not a brush) to remove dust from the sensor.
Or Sony:
(http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/support/ilc/sensor/en.html)
  • How to clean the image sensorCleaning environment
    When cleaning, it is recommended to perform procedures in an indoor environment where there is no wind or dust.
  • If the condition does not improve even after cleaning :
    If dust is not removed even after cleaning with this procedure, please contact Sony's < Service Centre >.
Or Panasonic:
(https://www.manualslib.com/manual/992271/Panasonic-Lumix-Dmc-Gx8.html?page=395)
  • Removing dirt on the image sensorThe image sensor is very precise and delicate, so be sure to observe the following when you do have to clean it yourself.
  • ...
  • If you cannot remove the dirt or dust with the blower, consult the dealer or Panasonic.
Sounds like pretty much every manufacturer recommends that if the sensor clean menu item doesn't work, the user should try a blower. And then if that doesn't work, then send it in.

This seems pretty consistent with Nikon's DSLR recommendations. And very different from the Nikon Z7 recommendations. And also very different from your statement that manufacturers only recommend that the user uses the menu item only.
 
EricTheAstroJunkie said:
Meh, it's absurdly easy to clean, you don't actually touch the sensor given the fact that there are multiple layers of glass cover it, you'd have to do some insanely aggressive swabbing to do any damage at all (saying this as someone who's literally disassembled, desoldered, and modified multiple cameras myself).
Click to expand...
I think most people know the sensor is behind glass and easy to clean (I’ve done it on my dSLRs) the worry is that when wet cleaning you apply a small amount of pressure onto the sensor by the bend in the sensor swab.

DSLR sensors are fixed and are better physically supported however cameras with IBIS by their nature are “floating” and the question is whether this system can take the applied force.

Even if locked when switched off will this locking mechanism be sturdy enough?
 
EricTheAstroJunkie said:
Virtual Photon said:
beatboxa said:
Virtual Photon said:
Name a manufacturer who does recommend sensor cleaning by the user? Other than the 'sensor clean' done through the menus . . . that is.
Click to expand...
Nikon, for one.

Here is the D750 manual:

272e003ade924e3a8ccba8c9094af4ff.jpg.png

86617f1d381140918da07b214a9a20d0.jpg.png

But in the Z7 manual, it is a very different message:

5741fa0e18cd4ff581bbe74fac9186f6.jpg.png

0874cf698d8247daac282d7b9a11fa3d.jpg.png
Click to expand...
And if you go to pg 451 in the D750 manual, they say

"Nikon recommends that the filter be cleaned only by Nikon-authorized service personnel."

Explaining how to do something is not the same as recommending that you do it. In fact they explicitly recommend that it only be done by Nikon.
Click to expand...
Meh, it's absurdly easy to clean, you don't actually touch the sensor given the fact that there are multiple layers of glass cover it, you'd have to do some insanely aggressive swabbing to do any damage at all (saying this as someone who's literally disassembled, desoldered, and modified multiple cameras myself).
Click to expand...
Correct, but if you scratch the filters, you'd have to pay for a whole new sensor assembly as Nikon will not replace only the filter array, so not great. (same with Canon by the way)
 
commiebiker said:
as1mov said:
Hi,

I was reading this article: https://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/camera-database/nikon-z-mirrorless-cameras/nikon-z6z7-blog/

One of the disadvantages of using Z7 over the D850 would be that
  • Nikon does not recommend user sensor cleaning
That worries me a bit as I use a lot of old manual lenses, which I switch oft during in the course of a shooting. I had actually heard the contrary, that sensor cleaning is the same as for previous Nikon DSLRs, no special precautions.
Click to expand...
I believe that this warning has more to do with the sensitivity of the IBIS system than with the sensor itself. But, sooner of later, it will need to be cleaned
Click to expand...
The camera locks the sensor when the power is switched off.
 
Special Circumstances said:
EricTheAstroJunkie said:
Meh, it's absurdly easy to clean, you don't actually touch the sensor given the fact that there are multiple layers of glass cover it, you'd have to do some insanely aggressive swabbing to do any damage at all (saying this as someone who's literally disassembled, desoldered, and modified multiple cameras myself).
Click to expand...
I think most people know the sensor is behind glass and easy to clean (I’ve done it on my dSLRs) the worry is that when wet cleaning you apply a small amount of pressure onto the sensor by the bend in the sensor swab.

DSLR sensors are fixed and are better physically supported however cameras with IBIS by their nature are “floating” and the question is whether this system can take the applied force.

Even if locked when switched off will this locking mechanism be sturdy enough?
Click to expand...
Of course it is sturdy enough unless you use far too much force. But surely anything can be broken.
 
olyflyer said:
Special Circumstances said:
EricTheAstroJunkie said:
Meh, it's absurdly easy to clean, you don't actually touch the sensor given the fact that there are multiple layers of glass cover it, you'd have to do some insanely aggressive swabbing to do any damage at all (saying this as someone who's literally disassembled, desoldered, and modified multiple cameras myself).
Click to expand...
I think most people know the sensor is behind glass and easy to clean (I’ve done it on my dSLRs) the worry is that when wet cleaning you apply a small amount of pressure onto the sensor by the bend in the sensor swab.

DSLR sensors are fixed and are better physically supported however cameras with IBIS by their nature are “floating” and the question is whether this system can take the applied force.

Even if locked when switched off will this locking mechanism be sturdy enough?
Click to expand...
Of course it is sturdy enough unless you use far too much force. But surely anything can be broken.
Click to expand...
I’m interested how you know this, have you cleaned the sensor yourself?
 
Virtual Photon said:
Explaining how to do something is not the same as recommending that you do it. In fact they explicitly recommend that it only be done by Nikon.
Click to expand...
The following refers to cleaning the AA filter on the image sensor:

D800 manual, p 399:
"Dirt that can not be removed with a blower can only be removed by Nikon-authorized service personnel. Under no circumstances should you touch or wipe the filter."

D3s Manual, p 382
"Dirt that can not be removed with a blower can only be removed by Nikon-authorized
service personnel. Under no circumstances should you touch or wipe the filter."

D850 Manual, p 317
"Dirt that can not be removed with a blower can only be removed by Nikon-authorized
service personnel. Under no circumstances should you touch or wipe the filter."

I think the question is whether the Z6/Z7 poses any new special challenges when cleaning the sensor. Nikon writes the same warning in all their manuals to protect themselves.
 
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