Ran into a Great Landscape Pro with Sony a7RIII and 24-105 F4

Greg7579 · Nov 2, 2018

I had a travel experience yesterday that had an impact on my thinking as a Fuji travel-shooter. Teresa and I were sitting in a farmhouse breakfast room at 7 in the morning in the pouring rain yesterday deep in the Lucanian Dolomites down in the boot instep of Southern Italy (Basilicata) just outside an amazing mountaintop town called Castelmezzano. We had stopped for the evening in one of those agriculture - farmhouse places with rooms and farm-to-table meals that are so popular in Italy now. We were seeking shelter and a place to hole-up for the day because it was storming badly. The last week of our 8-week trip here is turning very bad on the weather.

Anyway, we were sitting drinking coffee and in comes this Austrian couple our age speaking German and they saw us sitting there all quiet and they switched to fluent English. I of course immediately spotted what was in his hand. It was a landscape-shooter's 42.4 MP Sony a7RIII -- not the a7III. On it was the Sony 24-70 F2.8. I was sitting there fiddling with my XH-1 with Brick attached, deleting bad images from the crappy weather the day before.

I had my Dell XPS laptop on the table. He pulled out his Mac. We of course started talking because the two couples were alone in the kitchen area there at the farm house.

We talked for two hours and played with each other's cameras. The amazing thing to me was the size-weight. The two rigs were about the same, but the Sony seemed even a bit smaller. I have the RRS L-Bracket mounted, which makes it bigger, but I have to admit I'm not getting the much-touted size advantage with my Fuji rig vs the Sony - at least not from what I could tell. I played with that Sony for an hour and walked around and shot it. I didn't like the feel or ergo of it near as much as the Fuji, but I am of course biased.

I must say too that Helmut was impressed with the Fuji dials and aperture ring. He is an old-school pro and like me, shot film for decades. He knew about Fuji but had never really played with one as he did mine. He loved the ergo, but was extremely dismissive of APS-C, like so many FF guys are. We talked about it for an hour and he was a hard-core FF believer and threw out every anti-APSC dinger I have ever heard. He even said two stops of difference on DR and other hardball dingers about resolution and IQ. I didn't argue with him because his work was mind-blowing good and he was on a roll. He was even making fun of the new a7III because it had such "low" resolution compared to the a7Riii. He was a big believer in landscape resolution. Yes, I did opine that he should go Fuji MF!

He said no way, that his a7riii had as good of IQ as the Fuji MF. I let it go....

Anyway, he fired up the Mac and showed me his website and blog. His landscape images were worthy of being among the greats. He says he studies and copies all the greats. The images were just amazing. Of course, I was probably looking at his best work. But I think I can say that they were the best landscapes I have ever seen. I was stunned actually. He looked at my Flickr at the bazillion images from this trip because they were down in Southern Italy doing the same basic trip for a few weeks, and he was extremely complimentary of my images, so I was much easier on him than I am the Sony guys and drive-by shooters on this Board. I did not resort to using my vast arsenal of FF vs Fuji information and counter-attack zingers. I just let it go.

But really -- his fantastic images had nothing to do with the camera if you ask me. This guy was an artist. I am going to contact him today and ask if I can attach his link and info here. If he says OK, I will. I need to check him out, because I think I am going to find out this guy is a well-known landscape pro in Europe. He shoots only landscape - nothing else, and all hand-held.

I must admit, as always with Sony I am tempted … really tempted. But I love the XH-1 and the Fuji ergo. I love the Fuji glass. If I got that 42 MP FF Sony, it would not improve my landscapes.

You guys are lucky! I just got good WiFi and posted 100 more images from this amazing Southern Italy trip. We just made a run back to Naples and I was almost on the street because every room in and near Naples is booked because it is one of their biggest Holidays, and I was totally unaware of that bit of key information. It s pouring rain and this is going to be another long day of no shooting. Fly out of Rome Wednesday. Been gone two months.

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums

DiMiColoGy · Nov 2, 2018

Nice Story Greg, thanks for sharing.

Pix1k · Nov 2, 2018

Very interesting! Did you guys discuss technique, tips etc? What stood out about his photos? Was there a lot of image editing?

Posting his name/portfolio would be great. Glad you're enjoying yourself, hope the weather clears up!

FTOG · Nov 2, 2018

One can tell the weather has been poor and you had time to write this.

Greg7579 said:
The amazing thing to me was the size-weight. The two rigs were about the same, but the Sony seemed even a bit smaller. I have the RRS L-Bracket mounted, which makes it bigger, but I have to admit I'm not getting the much-touted size advantage with my Fuji rig vs the Sony - at least not from what I could tell.

I entirely understand what you're getting at, Greg. However, I don't think your combo is the best to exhibit the weight (not size) advantage of the Fuji system. After all, there are few lenses heavier than the brick (200/2.0, 100-400, 50-140, 80/2.8) and the X-H1 is Fuji's heaviest camera body. WIthout your L-bracket, the X-H1/brick combo weighs around 1.350gr with battery and memory card. This is virtually identical to the weight of the A7R III and 24-105/4.0 and dimensions are comparable, too.

If, however, you pit one of the smaller Fuji combos against a Sony, the weight difference becomes much more notable. An A7R III or A7 III with a 85/1.8 will weigh 1050gr, while an X-T3 with 56/1.2 will weigh 950gr. Accepting a less shallow DOF, an X-E3 with 50/2.0 will weigh almost half that: 550gr.

That being said, weight alone is - of course - not the only reason to pick a camera system, and both the Sony shooter you met and you highlighted the shooting experience that Fuji has to offer. Where I live, a A7 III w/ 24-105 will cost you around 3.500 EUR - or 4.500 EUR if you make that an A7R III. An X-T3 and brick will cost you 2.500 EUR (28.5% less than the A7 III kit).

Greg7579 · Nov 2, 2018

Yes we did. For a long time. He told me about his technique. He does not hike much. He rides all over Europe in a camper (what we in America call an RV) and his wife drives. He sees a shot and he tells his wife to stop and he jumps out and grabs it. He shoots his landscapes at 24mm. He doesn't like wider because too much foreground. He always shoots Base ISO 100 at least at F8 or F9/10/11. He focuses always with the focus-lock button and then recomposes.

This is something I never do and that we talked about a long time. I frame my shot and then joystick the single focus point to where I want it. He never does that. He uses the back lock button as I know many of you do. Interesting.

I also got the lens wrong. He mostly uses the Sigma 24-105 F4 Art. He says he doesn't need F2.8 for his landscapes. He has the 24-70 Sony F2.8, but he keeps the 24-105 F4 Sigma Art lens on his camera and that is what he shot almost all of his awesome landscape images with.

That 24-105 Sigma is a nice lens. I shot with the Canon 24-105 F4 L for many years. But since he is so concerned about absolute resolution, that lens is no champion at beyond 50mm at more open apertures, especially for that 42 MP sensor. I would think being a high-end pro and using very good top-end equipment and also being obsessed with IQ and resolution, that he would use a prime or the 24-70 vs the 24-105.

He has the primes he needs for landscapes, but he made it a point to repeatedly tell me that he shoots the 24-105 at around F8/9/10/11 for his travel landscapes, and usually at 24mm.

I also showed him my 50-140 and compared it to other 70-210 type high-end F2.8 zooms, which are great for landscapes. But he doesn't shoot compressed landscapes and rarely anything but 24mm. He does not have the 70-210 Sony G-Master. That surprises me.

It was a very interesting talk. I don't agree with some of what he said, especially about APSC, but I didn't state any of that as I do all the time on this Board (and get into trouble for it occasionally).

But this guy was so good. Stunning images. Very artistic compositions and he has the eye for sure. He is waaaaay better than me. But I shoot a lot more than landscapes, so I give myself some consolation.

Oh, and get this! He says he shots JPEGs! He has a few posted images which we were RAW produced full-size LPEGs in LightRoom, but he mostly posts OOC JPEGs!

That really surprises me. But many of those stunning images were OOC JPEGs. very surprising.

I have time to ramble like this because it is pouring rain in Napoli, and I'm stuck in my room until later today. I know Bob shoots on the street in the rain, but I'm not in the mood today....

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas

Greg Johnson’s albums | Flickr

www.flickr.com

Greg7579 · Nov 2, 2018

FTOG said:
One can tell the weather has been poor and you had time to write this.

Greg7579 said:

The amazing thing to me was the size-weight. The two rigs were about the same, but the Sony seemed even a bit smaller. I have the RRS L-Bracket mounted, which makes it bigger, but I have to admit I'm not getting the much-touted size advantage with my Fuji rig vs the Sony - at least not from what I could tell.

Click to expand...

I entirely understand what you're getting at, Greg. However, I don't think your combo is the best to exhibit the weight (not size) advantage of the Fuji system. After all, there are few lenses heavier than the brick (200/2.0, 100-400, 50-140, 80/2.8) and the X-H1 is Fuji's heaviest camera body. WIthout your L-bracket, the X-H1/brick combo weighs around 1.350gr with battery and memory card. This is virtually identical to the weight of the A7R III and 24-105/4.0 and dimensions are comparable, too.

If, however, you pit one of the smaller Fuji combos against a Sony, the weight difference becomes much more notable. An A7R III or A7 III with a 85/1.8 will weigh 1050gr, while an X-T3 with 56/1.2 will weigh 950gr. Accepting a less shallow DOF, an X-E3 with 50/2.0 will weigh almost half that: 550gr.

That being said, weight alone is - of course - not the only reason to pick a camera system, and both the Sony shooter you met and you highlighted the shooting experience that Fuji has to offer. Where I live, a A7 III w/ 24-105 will cost you around 3.500 EUR - or 4.500 EUR if you make that an A7R III. An X-T3 and brick will cost you 2.500 EUR (28.5% less than the A7 III kit).

Yes, thanks... I did not mean to suggest I don't like the size / weight / feel of the XH-1 with Brick. I love it and absolutely do not desire anything smaller. The feel and size is perfect for me. However, I expressed honestly my surprise when I saw both rigs sitting next to each other on the coffee table in that farmhouse. Helmut even said, "Wow -- I thought you APSC Fuji guys had a significant size / weight advantage!" I told him we did. That if he saw my XT-3 with the 23 F2 on it he might see what I mean.

Oh, and I showed him the 16 and 56, which I had in my bag. He was very impressed and said he knew Fuji glass was great.

Anyway, I don't get to meet Sony pro's ever day and have long discussions with them. It was very interesting.

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas

Greg Johnson’s albums | Flickr

www.flickr.com

TORN · Nov 2, 2018

I already feared this would be another bashing thread. In the end we are all photographers and should enjoy what we are doing and share which each other. It really does not matter what equipment somebody fancies today. Tomorrow it might already be something else.

John Michael Winterbourne · Nov 2, 2018

I expect that Greg will get in before me, but if you think this is any sort of "bashing" thread, you are mistaken.

Greg7579 · Nov 2, 2018

No guys really … I swear. I am not playing around here. No exaggeration for comic effect. No hyperbole. I had a great, long and impromptu conversation with a fantastic pro landscape photographer who was on the same basic trip as me.

It was am amazing experience talking to this Sony photographer (who also shot Leica rangefinder on the street for many decades BTW). He was so good and who would not be impressed by that Sony rig? In fact, he was impressed with my Fuji rig and bag of great Fuji lenses. Who wouldn't be?

I stopped bashing Sony a long time ago. I never speak ill of Sony. They are too good. I just like to get in on the comparison talk and defend APSC vs FF a lot because I know what I am giving up and not giving up by choosing Fuji APSC vs now very easily obtainable FF. For me, it is not about the money savings because if I wanted the rig he had I would buy it now (as I have said many times). I know for many that price is a big factor with Fuji vs the FF competition.

I was hoping that the thread would not turn into an APSC vs FF or Fuji vs Sony or any kind of aperture equivalency argument. But that is beyond my control and threads can get derailed by one caustic post, which everyone then replies to.

I was just sharing an experience.

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas

Greg Johnson’s albums | Flickr

www.flickr.com

FTOG · Nov 2, 2018

Greg7579 said:
No guys really … I swear. I am not playing around here. No exaggeration for comic effect. No hyperbole. I had a great, long and impromptu conversation with a fantastic pro landscape photographer who was on the same basic trip as me.

I was hoping that the thread would not turn into an APSC vs FF or Fuji vs Sony or any kind of aperture equivalency argument. But that is beyond my control and threads can get derailed by one caustic post, which everyone then replies to.

I was just sharing an experience.

I see no derailing yet, and I don't think anyone else is. The conversation you had does seem intriguing. I have had similar "wow" moments with street photographers that were much, much better than I. It's a humbling experience, but also a great learning opportunity.

As much as the person you met was sceptical about APS-C, I know from experience that street photographers I spoke to never talked about pixel-peeping. When gear was discussed, it was always about whether a piece of equipment enabled them to take the pictures they wanted. At the time, the X100 was new, and a big deal for them (who were avid Leica M and Nikon S shooters for film). Many of them had pro-tier DSLRs (D3s, D700, 1D Mk IV, 5d Mk II... 2010 seems so far away) for their non-street work, yet the tiny X100 was what everyone was curious to check out.

Pix1k · Nov 2, 2018

Greg7579 said:
Yes we did. For a long time. He told me about his technique. He does not hike much. He rides all over Europe in a camper (what we in America call an RV) and his wife drives. He sees a shot and he tells his wife to stop and he jumps out and grabs it. He shoots his landscapes at 24mm. He doesn't like wider because too much foreground. He always shoots Base ISO 100 at least at F8 or F9/10/11. He focuses always with the focus-lock button and then recomposes.

This is something I never do and that we talked about a long time. I frame my shot and then joystick the single focus point to where I want it. He never does that. He uses the back lock button as I know many of you do. Interesting.

Oh, and get this! He says he shots JPEGs! He has a few posted images which we were RAW produced full-size LPEGs in LightRoom, but he mostly posts OOC JPEGs!

That really surprises me. But many of those stunning images were OOC JPEGs. very surprising.

I have time to ramble like this because it is pouring rain in Napoli, and I'm stuck in my room until later today. I know Bob shoots on the street in the rain, but I'm not in the mood today....

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums

Seems like a very "off the cuff" approach, jumping at what pleases his eye and shooting JPEGs. It's impressive his work comes out so good (even if he showed you his very best), I think we'd be interested in seeing some of his shots. Just goes to show that a fairly capable camera+lens and fairly capable photographer can go a long way.

Also, I sent you a PM some time ago, would love to hear back from you when you get the chance.

Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip (whether outside or inside)!

G3_4_ME · Nov 2, 2018

Neat discussion. It's always fun to learn from more seasoned photographers, as I do on this forum.

With all these APSC/FF discussions, it would be interesting to find a couple of people for a friendly APSC/FF comparative test. Same location, same time, same subject, same FL, different cameras. OoC jpgs only.

Wouldn't that be fun?

Jon Schick · Nov 2, 2018

Interesting experience.

Earlier this week I compared the new Nikon Z (24-70/4) with the X-H1 plus brick. To be honest I was very pleasantly surprised by the Nikon and it felt svelte compared to that Fuji combo. The build and handling was great too. I'd be surely tempted by the Z6 if I could afford it and if there was a stack of lenses ready to go without using an adapter. But neither of those are currently true and I'm now the proud owner of an X-H1 plus grip bought at a great price from the Fuji refurb store here in the UK (including 3 batteries). Busy setting up all the user settings so I can start putting it to use over the next few days. And sadly Fuji didn't supply it with the latest firmware so that's a job tonight too.... As an ex Pentax owner, the X-H1 is my first Fuji that feels like it has been built to a similar bomb-proof standard. It's chunky but I find the handling easier than my smaller X-T1.

Hope the weather improves for you!

Jon

Greg7579 · Nov 2, 2018

Pix1k said:
Greg7579 said:

Yes we did. For a long time. He told me about his technique. He does not hike much. He rides all over Europe in a camper (what we in America call an RV) and his wife drives. He sees a shot and he tells his wife to stop and he jumps out and grabs it. He shoots his landscapes at 24mm. He doesn't like wider because too much foreground. He always shoots Base ISO 100 at least at F8 or F9/10/11. He focuses always with the focus-lock button and then recomposes.

This is something I never do and that we talked about a long time. I frame my shot and then joystick the single focus point to where I want it. He never does that. He uses the back lock button as I know many of you do. Interesting.

Oh, and get this! He says he shots JPEGs! He has a few posted images which we were RAW produced full-size LPEGs in LightRoom, but he mostly posts OOC JPEGs!

That really surprises me. But many of those stunning images were OOC JPEGs. very surprising.

I have time to ramble like this because it is pouring rain in Napoli, and I'm stuck in my room until later today. I know Bob shoots on the street in the rain, but I'm not in the mood today....

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums

Click to expand...

Seems like a very "off the cuff" approach, jumping at what pleases his eye and shooting JPEGs. It's impressive his work comes out so good (even if he showed you his very best), I think we'd be interested in seeing some of his shots. Just goes to show that a fairly capable camera+lens and fairly capable photographer can go a long way.

Also, I sent you a PM some time ago, would love to hear back from you when you get the chance.

Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip (whether outside or inside)!

Well -- because of some technical difficulties and other DPR-related rulings I have been unable to respond to PMs or anything else. That rare glitch has been remedied for now so I will go back and see what I missed.

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas

Greg Johnson’s albums | Flickr

www.flickr.com

Greg7579 · Nov 2, 2018

Jon Schick said:
Interesting experience.

Earlier this week I compared the new Nikon Z (24-70/4) with the X-H1 plus brick. To be honest I was very pleasantly surprised by the Nikon and it felt svelte compared to that Fuji combo. The build and handling was great too. I'd be surely tempted by the Z6 if I could afford it and if there was a stack of lenses ready to go without using an adapter. But neither of those are currently true and I'm now the proud owner of an X-H1 plus grip bought at a great price from the Fuji refurb store here in the UK (including 3 batteries). Busy setting up all the user settings so I can start putting it to use over the next few days. And sadly Fuji didn't supply it with the latest firmware so that's a job tonight too.... As an ex Pentax owner, the X-H1 is my first Fuji that feels like it has been built to a similar bomb-proof standard. It's chunky but I find the handling easier than my smaller X-T1.

Hope the weather improves for you!

Jon

Well, considering that the three Fuji Batteries are worth the price of a small car, you probably got a good deal. As far as firmware, it takes 3 or 4 minutes to do that. OK - maybe 5 your first time.

If you shoot raw, don't worry too much about all the user settings. Put DR on 100 and ignore all the JPEG stuff or zero them out. Or look at the thread on setting your camera JPEG settings for shooting RAW so that the histogram while shooting more closely resembles what is going on with the actual raw file.

Or shoot JPEG and have fun doing it.

rwbaron · Nov 2, 2018

Are you sure the guy's name wasn't Hans ?

Hans Kruse has been shooting and leading photo treks in the Dolomites for years.

The first thought that came to mind reading your post is the Fuji f2.8 zooms along with the X-H1 run contrary to one big motivator for me to move to Fuji and sell my Canon gear. The stuff is big, heavy and not much different than Canon in that regard and wouldn't be on my list for a trip such as the one you're on at least not at my age. :-D

No one shoots landscapes at f2.8. ;-)

Bob

Joachim Gerstl · Nov 2, 2018

Hi Greg,

Yes, the Austrians. Not only amazing skiers but also great artists. All of them.

But of course he had no idea what he was talking about. I shot the A7R for a short time. I loved the IQ quality but I hated the ergonomics. WB was wonky but the images were sharp with tons of detail. Dynamic range was very good but probably about 2/3 to 1 stop better than on my Fuji X Pro-2. For sure not 2 stops. Maybe he shot Canon before.

Of course there is no size advantage for the Fuji if you compared the X H-1 plus 16-55 with the A7RIII plus a slower 24-70. The X H-1 is massive and the 16-55 (which I simply love) is rather big too.

But no need to think about FF. You like to take a lot of lenses with you when you travel. Just imagine that you take all the G-Master lenses on your next trip.

You might need a second wife to carry all the stuff around and at least where I live that is illegal.

Enjoy the rest of you trip! I will have a look at your images now.

Jon Schick · Nov 2, 2018

Greg7579 said:
Jon Schick said:

Interesting experience.

Earlier this week I compared the new Nikon Z (24-70/4) with the X-H1 plus brick. To be honest I was very pleasantly surprised by the Nikon and it felt svelte compared to that Fuji combo. The build and handling was great too. I'd be surely tempted by the Z6 if I could afford it and if there was a stack of lenses ready to go without using an adapter. But neither of those are currently true and I'm now the proud owner of an X-H1 plus grip bought at a great price from the Fuji refurb store here in the UK (including 3 batteries). Busy setting up all the user settings so I can start putting it to use over the next few days. And sadly Fuji didn't supply it with the latest firmware so that's a job tonight too.... As an ex Pentax owner, the X-H1 is my first Fuji that feels like it has been built to a similar bomb-proof standard. It's chunky but I find the handling easier than my smaller X-T1.

Hope the weather improves for you!

Jon

Click to expand...

Well, considering that the three Fuji Batteries are worth the price of a small car, you probably got a good deal. As far as firmware, it takes 3 or 4 minutes to do that. OK - maybe 5 your first time.

If you shoot raw, don't worry too much about all the user settings. Put DR on 100 and ignore all the JPEG stuff or zero them out. Or look at the thread on setting your camera JPEG settings for shooting RAW so that the histogram while shooting more closely resembles what is going on with the actual raw file.

Or shoot JPEG and have fun doing it.

Jon Schick · Nov 2, 2018

... Should add though that I'm happy with JPEGs for street, people and general travel photography but not convinced it's what I'd do for landscapes!

Christof21 · Nov 2, 2018

Hi Greg,

It was very pleasant to read your post.

No war between Fuji and Sony guys, this was really a breath of fresh air !!

Nice story,

Chris

Ran into a Great Landscape Pro with Sony a7RIII and 24-105 F4

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