Help Help Help! I can't take this any more!

DigitalCrazy said:

I just came form another local camera shop and two people there
tried this camera and are experincing the same problem.
UNDEREXPOSURE. One has been into photography for 25 years and one
for 10. They suggested sending it back to where I bought it and
get another. While there we(including me) tried a Nikon D100 and
took the same photos with same settings and had NO problem with the
Nikon D100.

Click to expand...

You are aware that you have to treat the sensor in a digital camera as if you were exposing for dia positive film, do you? And guess what people do that expose for dia positive film? They willingly underexpose by 1 stop to preserve the detail in the highlights

Try understanding your kit before throwing money at it to make it do what you believe it should do.

I bought a 10D recently and yes it exposes differently to the camera I had before. So I had to learn it's responses because at times when my previous camera would expose wrongly the new one would be spot on and where the old one might be ok the 10D might be off the trolley.

But that's why you take the time and learn to use a thing. And you can't tell me that you are such great photographers to have learnt the new metering system within the few days that the camera is on the market. I spent the last three weekends (and some hours in the evenings between) learning how the metering of the 10D behaves and I only scratched the surface. I'll still get wrong exposures but I don't blame it on the camera but on my inexperience.

As to the comments you got from the other people on this thread: They simply didn't take you serious. With such a post and behaviour you showed do you really expect to be taken seriously?

I still don't believe you'll ever find that camera that will do all that you expect it to at the time you want it to because you don't give yourself the time to find out.

And now you might yell at me for being so blunt, I don't care. What I do care about is if there are people that won't receive help because you drove the helpful people away.

--
regards
Karl Günter Wünsch

I've been using a camera for over 30 years. I've been through the digital revoloution, which included cameras such as the D30, D60, 1D and now the 10D.

I've used the 300d, and will go on the record saying that the camera underexposes its flash pics, JUST LIKE THE D30 AND D60 DID.... BEFORE I HAD THEM FIXED!!!!.
Is there any part of "had them fixed" that anyone doesn't understand?

Canon is known for releasing conservative -flash - exposure-digital DLSR cameras.

This whole ETT-L BS is ticking me off. These so-called experts come here, and think that they figured it out. There is nothing to figure out....A camera such as the 300D, with its intended target audience, should produce EXCELLENT flash pics, just as your P&S did...without having to think through every shot.....PERIOD!

If your camera underexposes for flash, get it calibrated by Canon. I've done this numerous times, and it works like a charm.

Does anyone feel like they want to challenge experience?
Feel free to do so.

Thank You.

Anthony said:

I've been using a camera for over 30 years. I've been through the
digital revoloution, which included cameras such as the D30, D60,
1D and now the 10D.
I've used the 300d, and will go on the record saying that the
camera underexposes its flash pics, JUST LIKE THE D30 AND D60
DID.... BEFORE I HAD THEM FIXED!!!!.

Click to expand...

No need to shout!

Anthony14707 said:

Is there any part of "had them fixed" that anyone doesn't understand?

Click to expand...

No need to be aggravated. I was commenting on DigitalCrazy's behaviour and if their camera was broken then by all means it should be fixed.

Anthony14707 said:

Canon is known for releasing conservative -flash - exposure-digital
DLSR cameras.

This whole ETT-L BS is ticking me off. These so-called experts come
here, and think that they figured it out. There is nothing to
figure out....A camera such as the 300D, with its intended target
audience, should produce EXCELLENT flash pics, just as your P&S
did...without having to think through every shot.....PERIOD!

Click to expand...

Please don't make me laugh. I haven't seen a single P&S do really good on flash exposure. It takes a picture and it will be brighter than without the flash. But there will always be circumstances when all else fails and you'll get that dreaded underexposed/overexposed shoddy looking picture. That's an experience anyone has to suffer and get through.

Anthony14707 said:

If your camera underexposes for flash, get it calibrated by Canon.
I've done this numerous times, and it works like a charm.

Click to expand...

So you had the experience to limit the problem down to a camera fault. Does that guarantee that all underexposed flash pictures are resulting from a camera fault as well?

Anthony14707 said:

Does anyone feel like they want to challenge experience?
Feel free to do so.

Click to expand...

But to get experience you have to be capable of learning first. And to be learning something you need to keep an open mind and not be full of preconceptions. If I look at a problem and I think I know the solution I still check all my bases and then I act on that findings. You are simply assuming that you know the problem is with the camera without checking for other reasons first.

--
regards
Karl Günter Wünsch

question: do you find it exposes better in the idiot modes with on-body flash rather than in creative modes (Av)? I've just used the pop-up flash, and it seems to expose better in Green-box than in Av. is that possible? I havent done any extensive testing and admitedly dont know much about flashes at all. I'm also not sugesting that as a solution, since not many of use green-box mode.

Anthony said:

I've been using a camera for over 30 years. I've been through the
digital revoloution, which included cameras such as the D30, D60,
1D and now the 10D.
I've used the 300d, and will go on the record saying that the
camera underexposes its flash pics, JUST LIKE THE D30 AND D60
DID.... BEFORE I HAD THEM FIXED!!!!.
Is there any part of "had them fixed" that anyone doesn't understand?

Canon is known for releasing conservative -flash - exposure-digital
DLSR cameras.

This whole ETT-L BS is ticking me off. These so-called experts come
here, and think that they figured it out. There is nothing to
figure out....A camera such as the 300D, with its intended target
audience, should produce EXCELLENT flash pics, just as your P&S
did...without having to think through every shot.....PERIOD!

If your camera underexposes for flash, get it calibrated by Canon.
I've done this numerous times, and it works like a charm.

Does anyone feel like they want to challenge experience?
Feel free to do so.

Thank You.

Click to expand...

--
--------
http://www.redbill.us/gallery.htm

Anthony said:

I've been using a camera for over 30 years. I've been through the
digital revoloution, which included cameras such as the D30, D60,
1D and now the 10D.
I've used the 300d, and will go on the record saying that the
camera underexposes its flash pics, JUST LIKE THE D30 AND D60
DID.... BEFORE I HAD THEM FIXED!!!!.
Is there any part of "had them fixed" that anyone doesn't understand?

Canon is known for releasing conservative -flash - exposure-digital
DLSR cameras.

This whole ETT-L BS is ticking me off. These so-called experts come
here, and think that they figured it out. There is nothing to
figure out....A camera such as the 300D, with its intended target
audience, should produce EXCELLENT flash pics, just as your P&S
did...without having to think through every shot.....PERIOD!

If your camera underexposes for flash, get it calibrated by Canon.
I've done this numerous times, and it works like a charm.

Does anyone feel like they want to challenge experience?
Feel free to do so.

Thank You.

Click to expand...

that really isn't the point. They have been on several other Canon forums--all being ecstatically happy with the camera(s)--then--exposure problems--or some other problem--or just disappearing from one and appearing on another forum with yet another camera. They've moved through cameras (NOT just Canons for sure) looking for simple fixes. Many people have offered to help including Juli and myself--and probably you if you went back and looked at a 10D forum of several months ago. They (Mrs.????) have exhibited these same behaviors--and we were just pointing out that we've 'been there, done that'---and how about getting serious about learning some things along the way. They've been on the dpreview forums for 1.8 years---with MANY cameras--and finding fault with all of them eventually--and then moving on to another (there was even a thread about them not ever wanting to deal with DSLRs again--because they had learned their lesson and it was too much trouble changing lenses, exposure, etc--I'm paraphrasing here--but several of us remember all these 'incidents'--who could forget someone named 'Mr. and Mrs. Digitalcrazy). I guess the most expensive was probably the Canon 1D--and innumerable lenses for the various DSLRS--the 1D, D100, Fuji S2, 10D--with P & S digicams in between and now the 300D.

You explain it to me--I'm just scratching my head.

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

I have read this whole crazy thread, and I confess that it is the psychological aspect of this 'folie a deux' ("folly of two") couple that I find heart-rending. The biggest single clue is their chosen "noms de guerre" -- "Mr. and Mrs. Digital Crazy." I have a strong clinical psychology background, and I see signs that the personality mix of these two individuals is propelling them headlong into this un-ending "angst" of unsuccessful logical/technological problem-solving. And, no, I don't think they are "crazy". Or particularly ungrateful. I do think they show signs of both being highly histrionic, passive-dependent personalities who are, I suspect, in the "grips" of one or more local photo-store clerks -- in whom they have continued to helplessly "invest their trust" in the belief that a combination of their money, with someone else's expertise, will yield successful life-coping results in the phtographic hobby arena. Problem is, it doesn't seem that acquiring DSLR expertise is a process that yields fruit the way they have been practicing it.

Bless everybody's heart, here! Diane, Julie, and others have undoubtedly showed good-hearted patience over time and over forums, trying to help. And "Mr. and Mrs." are legitimately trying to pursue "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" with humility and a willingness to depend on others.

Now, then -- Mr. and Mrs. Digital Crazy -- this is going to cost you nothing, but here's my two cents worth:

1. Stop talking to the photo-store people you've been talking to. Start over with anther knowledgeable clerk somewhere who won't "grin" inside when he sees you coming and sees "dollar signs".

2. Stop focusing on hardware choices. Invest some time and money in a (digital) photography class in a local college, junior college, or wherever. Invest in the didactic process of learning the technological skills in how to capture the elusive beauty that you seek to visually preserve and appreciate.

3. Focus, perhaps, on some books/seminars which address "problem-solving" skills in approaching life, generally. I'm not being sarcastic, here. My heart goes out to you. Like the rest of us, you have become prisoners of your own neuroses. You need better "survival skills" as a couple jointly tackling unfamiliar logical/technological abstractions.

4. For the time being, don't sell anything. Decide to "dance with who brung you!" (Keep the 300D and commit yourselves to LEARNING how to be photographers -- PATIENT, METICULOUS, PLODDING, STUDENT photographers).

5. I promise you -- if you accomplish the four things above, you will be "tickled pink" to use ANY of the equipment that you have already gone through and sold -- and will get good redults with any of it.

THEN -- AND ONLY THEN -- decide what system you want to keep and build with. But for gosh sakes, stop buying what the clerks in the photo stores tell you to. For the two of you -- that ain't a winning formula.

Good luck -- and don't give up. You both obviously love the process of trying for beautiful pictures. But's it's not the lack of help here that is keeping you from being happy with your stuff.

Best regards -- JGalt

DigitalCrazy said:

I Give up!



I bought the Canon 17-40L and I still am having the esposure
problems. I was going to get the 50mm 1.4 they had but thought I
would get the L lens. Yikes! Now I gotta figure out this one. I
am even trying to do the FEL (Lord knows if I am doing it right)
--
Mr & Mrs. Digital Crazy

Click to expand...

Diane covered it well. An understanding of exposure is what is needed for sure. Both she and I try to be helpful, but we are human and have limits to our patience.

JGalt said:

I have read this whole crazy thread, and I confess that it is the
psychological aspect of this 'folie a deux' ("folly of two") couple
that I find heart-rending.

Click to expand...

and if they would take your advice they would be far better off. Perhaps they will---I suppose we should all feel sorry for them and their problems (not camera problems but personal problems) and not feed into their need for something or other.

Thanks for spelling out what a number of us have felt--but have given some advxse as to what is a better thing to do than just lose patience with them.

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Since you have watched my life history so closely and STILL don't have all your facts correct yet are quick to SPOUT them off, Could you also tell me what color toilet paper I use?

If you don't like the fact we have tried so many camera's for what ever reasons we do at the time then DON'T bother to read our posts and better yet don't waste your time responding. Iis what we do with our camera's hurting you? Yet you do not hesitate to make hurtful remarks or try to draw a negative picture to others in regards to our life history.

And to set the record straight which really is none of your business, there have been 2 times now where we sold our camera so we could help out our children with financial difficulties aswe did not have the cash flow at the time to give them knowing we could later re invest when we had it again. And yes we lost money each time doing so but we love our childrena nd grandchildren and were willing to take the loss. This was the case agin this time in deciding to get the Canon EOS-300D as we had to help our daughter with over 1300 in expenses this month. We thought Gee if we can sell the Fuji which we loved, and get the 300D with the kit lens then we could have a couple extra dollars to help her out we were willing to do so. So we were very much HOPING that the Canon with the Kit lens would work out for us. What a disappointment so far. So maybe before you rip people up and get all worked up because someone has owned SO many cameras you can maybe understand that just maybe there are things UNKNOWN sometimes that might explain things better. IT REALLY should not have been yours or anyone else's business as to WHY we have had SO many camera's. But you sure seemed to wnat to make a point of it and to make a point that EVERYONE ELSE knows also.

We also have read and seen MANY posts in MANY forums of MANY people that have done the same as us as far as trying many of the different camera's. In Fact many JOKE about the fact that while they are buying their next beast they are already thinking about what one they will get next...

So we are NOT alone in this. Also since you are so WISE and think we have NOT learned anything during these 1.8 years that you have so kindly pointed out(gosh I was not even aware of the time) it is a SHAME you have not seen MANY of OUR Successful photos that we have taken for MANY people in our community for FREE using the Fuji S2 Pro and the things that we HAVE Learned along the way.

I'd also like to know who appointed YOU the person to decide if a person should or should not try many cameras. Who appointed you to keep track of everyone else's business.

Diane B said:

Anthony said:

I've been using a camera for over 30 years. I've been through the
digital revoloution, which included cameras such as the D30, D60,
1D and now the 10D.
I've used the 300d, and will go on the record saying that the
camera underexposes its flash pics, JUST LIKE THE D30 AND D60
DID.... BEFORE I HAD THEM FIXED!!!!.
Is there any part of "had them fixed" that anyone doesn't understand?

Canon is known for releasing conservative -flash - exposure-digital
DLSR cameras.

This whole ETT-L BS is ticking me off. These so-called experts come
here, and think that they figured it out. There is nothing to
figure out....A camera such as the 300D, with its intended target
audience, should produce EXCELLENT flash pics, just as your P&S
did...without having to think through every shot.....PERIOD!

If your camera underexposes for flash, get it calibrated by Canon.
I've done this numerous times, and it works like a charm.

Does anyone feel like they want to challenge experience?
Feel free to do so.

Thank You.

Click to expand...

that really isn't the point. They have been on several other Canon
forums--all being ecstatically happy with the
camera(s)--then--exposure problems--or some other problem--or just
disappearing from one and appearing on another forum with yet
another camera. They've moved through cameras (NOT just Canons for
sure) looking for simple fixes. Many people have offered to help
including Juli and myself--and probably you if you went back and
looked at a 10D forum of several months ago. They (Mrs.????) have
exhibited these same behaviors--and we were just pointing out that
we've 'been there, done that'---and how about getting serious about
learning some things along the way. They've been on the dpreview
forums for 1.8 years---with MANY cameras--and finding fault with
all of them eventually--and then moving on to another (there was
even a thread about them not ever wanting to deal with DSLRs
again--because they had learned their lesson and it was too much
trouble changing lenses, exposure, etc--I'm paraphrasing here--but
several of us remember all these 'incidents'--who could forget
someone named 'Mr. and Mrs. Digitalcrazy). I guess the most
expensive was probably the Canon 1D--and innumerable lenses for the
various DSLRS--the 1D, D100, Fuji S2, 10D--with P & S digicams in
between and now the 300D.

You explain it to me--I'm just scratching my head.

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Click to expand...

--
Mr & Mrs. Digital Crazy

If at all possible, NEVER sell off a working camera to buy an unknown.

Buy the unknown FIRST, then test it to see if it's better, THEN make a decision.

I do realize this isn't always possible.

Or, to paraphrase: the grass ain't always greener . . . . so it pays to find out

Is it just flash exposure you're having problems with, or ambient?

--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.

That is WHAT the local photo store came up with also.

One guy there has been doing photography for 25 years and one for 10 years. They said It is NOT us! They may be getting one in today and have put us FIRST on the list to get it if it does. We are going down about 4:00 if they do to test it. If it works we will buy it and return this one where we bought it.

Anthony said:

I've been using a camera for over 30 years. I've been through the
digital revoloution, which included cameras such as the D30, D60,
1D and now the 10D.
I've used the 300d, and will go on the record saying that the
camera underexposes its flash pics, JUST LIKE THE D30 AND D60
DID.... BEFORE I HAD THEM FIXED!!!!.
Is there any part of "had them fixed" that anyone doesn't understand?

Canon is known for releasing conservative -flash - exposure-digital
DLSR cameras.

This whole ETT-L BS is ticking me off. These so-called experts come
here, and think that they figured it out. There is nothing to
figure out....A camera such as the 300D, with its intended target
audience, should produce EXCELLENT flash pics, just as your P&S
did...without having to think through every shot.....PERIOD!

If your camera underexposes for flash, get it calibrated by Canon.
I've done this numerous times, and it works like a charm.

Does anyone feel like they want to challenge experience?
Feel free to do so.

Thank You.

Click to expand...

--
Mr & Mrs. Digital Crazy

I don't think you are dumb at all! I just find what is going on with you really amazing and yes, a bit funny. You shouldn't really be in tears, since I'd be really really happy if I owned a dsrl with that beautiful lens.

My advice is to follow what others are saying already: if you want to take pictures you like just invest in a photography course or read some books (or both You can take a look at my portfolio in the link at the bottom: it's not that great but there are some pics I love and I took them with not a great equipment at all (a canon s40 and a canon AE1 with 30 year old lenses).

Just forget about the technical stuff and try to have fun. Indoor shots are underexposed? Well, try shooting outside for a while and see if you can relax.

By the way, I really like the included shot. I find it a funny and interesting portrait, and with a minor curves adjustment in pshop will look even better. I think you wanted to describe your feeling/impressions with an image, and you made it. That's just what photography is about, ain't it?

Simone

DigitalCrazy said:

I Quit. Anyone interested in a Canon EOS 3000-D camera let me
know. I'm out of here.
Mrs. Digital Crazy

Simone M. Navarra said:

Simone

Diane B said:

MrScary said:

DigitalCrazy said:

I Give up!



I bought the Canon 17-40L and I still am having the esposure
problems. I was going to get the 50mm 1.4 they had but thought I
would get the L lens. Yikes! Now I gotta figure out this one. I
am even trying to do the FEL (Lord knows if I am doing it right)
--
Mr & Mrs. Digital Crazy

Click to expand...

--Selling the S2 n Buying the 300D ...........GOS TO SHOW YOU KNOW
NOTHING ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHY....So Time to Stop Slagging someone off
when they are trying to Help You.....
MrScary (DennisR)
Swansea, Wales. UK

http://www.pbase.com/dennisr
http://community.webshots.com/user/mrscarecrow
http://digiden.photoshare.co.nz

Click to expand...

they've gone through a LONG list of digitals and people tried to
help them on a bunch of different boards---Oly (E10), Sony (707),
Canon (a couple of times 1Ds, G2, 10D, and now the 300D), Fuji,
etc.-

I just think they would be better off with one of the P & S they've
had over a period of time--moving from camera to camera is not
going to make one understand concepts any better unless you apply
yourself a bit so for sheer one button shooting without thinking
about the shot--a P & S just suits the need better.

-
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Click to expand...

--
http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=516817

Click to expand...

--
Mr & Mrs. Digital Crazy

Click to expand...

--
http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=516817

DigitalCrazy said:

You are a COLD HEARTED PATHETIC person Diane. From my personal experience Diane has been a VERY FRIENDLY and HELPFUL person....Not knowing me she answered my email and shared her know-how and PS actions with me. As for making statement as you did Phil's rules state:

Click to expand...

"anyone being abusive, calling names or generally trying to stir up trouble will not be tolerated......." and "Flame / Attacks - We do not tolerate abusive, malicious, personal attacks "

That's a pretty BIG statement.....
http://members.cox.net/lilredspy/Natalia 's%20Gallery/index.html
http://www.pbase.com/lilredspy

Natalia W. said:

DigitalCrazy said:

You are a COLD HEARTED PATHETIC person Diane. From my personal experience Diane has been a VERY FRIENDLY and HELPFUL person....Not knowing me she answered my email and shared her know-how and PS actions with me. As for making statement as you did Phil's rules state:

Click to expand...

"anyone being abusive, calling names or generally trying to stir up
trouble will not be tolerated......." and "Flame / Attacks - We
do not tolerate abusive, malicious, personal attacks "

Click to expand...

I should have not fed into this thread--should have stopped after the first post. I don't disagree with Anthony about flash exposure problems--some have conquered their problems, others not--and ETTL isn't easy, but these folks have been around and used the 420 and 550 on several different Canon cameras and each time found them wanting. The system has not changed--and I guess I lost my patience--and didn't take my own advice--write a post and wait an hour before sending it LOL.

So--I will 'chill out' and not continue this--and you know the old phrase--'sticks and stones will break my bones, but...' (or maybe you don't because you didn't grow up in the US). I'm usually considered a quite nonconfrontational type person either in reallife or on the forums--and try to go out of my way to be as helpful as I can within my knowledge base. I guess I just don't understand folks like them that spend more money on cameras and equipment than most people on this forum can even imagine--and are still not happy.

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me