Returned my 300D today... Big hasle

All these tried and returned cameras talked about in various forums. When I pay $1000 I don't really want one that has been played with and used for two weeks and taken everywhere. I have even seen posts where the person buys all the models, tries them all to see what they like best, returns the others. I think they are reasonable in charging 15%, if they pass it on to the next customer as a used camera.

.
First of all, let me say that I loved my Digital Rebel for the
first few days, until my memory came in and I really started trying
to shoot serious photos with it. Two commonly shot situations
really bothered me so much that I just couldn't stomach keeping the
camera.

1) I was shooting at a well lit cross country running meet at a
local church. Tons of kids running around, I thought it might be
an opportunity to take advantage of that crop factor with the
70-200IS. Big mistake. I couldn't get the AI servo AF to
activiate for most of the shots. In the end I just kept tapping
the shutter to get it so AF until I liked the composition. Half
the shots were out of focus. It looked obvious that the runner
behind the running I'm focusing on (as he/she runs towards me) is
in focus, but my subject is not. But I thought, shoot, this isn't
a 1D. I'm stretching it here.

2) I was shooting a 14 month old child trotting around. This is
the point at which I decided that if it doesn't sit still, and you
don't have those great manual focus skills, you can't photograph it
with the camera reliably. I could use my old Olympus C3030Z and
get in focus photos, because I just turn on continious focus.
Heres the real clincher.

3) I went to my local Best Buy to return the unit, 14 days after
purchase, and they said go to this other one (short drive away) and
they'd have a 10D and I can switch there (sounds good I think). Go
there and find that all the Best Buys in south Florida are out of
10Ds, out of Digital Rebels. I cannot get an exchange. Period.
Just... no. So then I have to prove that I'm not taking back the
camera because I don't like it, or they'll charge a 15% restocking
fee on this hunk of junk. Its not junk, but I don't just shoot
still lifes. (lives?)

The manager (or so he seemed) found out how to make it go in to
continious focus mode: hold down the shutter on something far,
point at something close, wait 10 seconds, and it goes continious.
Thats the secret of how to start AI servo, hold the shutter a long
time. Now, its 10s at 18mm, I couldn't get it under 30 at 55mm
(f/5.6 is likely the cause). The employee said that this is the
way it should be. It may not work like I want it to, it may not
work as advertised, but it does work, so I have to pay $150 for
them to take the camera back. Little note; the problem is no
different when using a 50/1.4.

He then told me to call corporate if I wasn't happy. So I did,
stood around on hold with them until they picked up, and they told
me they had to talk to Canon to get the specs. 20 minutes later
I'm on with the Canon guy that said he didn't know what the
appropriate lag time between One Shot AF and AI Servo should be,
they don't have the specs, but it shouldn't be 10 seconds. I tried
to get the "manager" so the Canon rep could say this to him.
Nowhere to be found.

I got someone else who talked to the Canon rep for a minute and
hung up. She asks "What did Jose[?] say we were calling Canon
for?" Corporate wanted to leave the decision up the Canon, I tell
her. She goes off, says she'll try to see if she can get another
Digital Rebel in the store by talking to a Regional Supervisor.
Heck, I can sell a new box on EBay. She dissapeared. The manager
guy comes back and says everything will be refunded and my credit
card will be credited. I was just shocked.

Sigh.

I don't know if this 3.5 hour ordeal was worth $150. Worst thing
was I did it first thing in the morning and was going to drop off
the camera and go back home to eat breakfast. I layed there
starved on the Best Buy floor on perpetual hold.

A few more notes: I know that the sports idiot mode gives AI Servo
AF, but no RAW capture, so the highlights are as good as gone. I
ordered a 10D from an online retailer with a bunch of good ratings
later today, hope to get it in by Friday. I hope I don't have to
deal with any AF issues on the 10D. And if I can post the photos I
will, so you's can see what I mean about the late focus.



Runners. I just couldn't convince the AI Servo to kick in. Center
AF point used, pointing at the left shoulder of the kid a bit left
of center.

Go here for a 50% downsampled version:
http://www.pbase.com/image/21602661/original

I don't mean to seem ungrateful, but it just wouldn't do what I
told it to, far too often.
 
OK .. Is that possible to explain me WHY only 400speed in sport
mode, even on 10D?? Why all that LIMITS there?? don't know if 1D
or 1Ds have any limits?
There might be some proper reasoning behind it, but it just seems like a knob head decision to me.
--
I never learn English... but I'm a speechifier so much that I can't
stop myself even in unfamiliar language... :)
[email protected]
 
The 1D and 1Ds, like the 1v, and all the other ones (does the
EOS-3?) have no idiot modes. There are no point and shoot modes on
my 1v. You actually have to choose. Its just P, Av, Tv, M, DEP,
and Bulb.
"P" is point and shoot, the only difference between that and the green square modes on lesser cameras is that "Green square" doesn't allow adjustments and reduces menu functionality and features - of course on the Elan class cameras and under, it pops up the flash also but as the 1-series and 3 don't have flashes, it's a moot point - but P does everything just the same

The 3 doesn't have idiot modes, the last fully semi Pro camera to have them OR a built in flash was the EOS5 (A2e) and of course it's predecessor the EOS10 had both also - thankfully they left that rubbish off the EOS3

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->

http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/

 
Of course, the problem with this is that Canon will now try to debug this camera to find out why it is randomly shutting off. If you tell them the truth, the marketting guys may get involved and remove some of these restrictions.
If I dont like a digital camera and wanna return it I just say that
it randomly shuts off and its defective. They never hit me with a
RSing fee and it works everytime. Stores shouldnt charge RSing
fees. If I'm gonna spend $1000 on a camera I wanna be able to try
it out and use if for a few days.
 
1) I was shooting at a well lit cross country running meet at a
local church. Tons of kids running around, I thought it might be
an opportunity to take advantage of that crop factor with the
70-200IS. Big mistake. I couldn't get the AI servo AF to
activiate for most of the shots. In the end I just kept tapping
the shutter to get it so AF until I liked the composition. Half
the shots were out of focus. It looked obvious that the runner
behind the running I'm focusing on (as he/she runs towards me) is
in focus, but my subject is not. But I thought, shoot, this isn't
a 1D. I'm stretching it here.

2) I was shooting a 14 month old child trotting around. This is
the point at which I decided that if it doesn't sit still, and you
don't have those great manual focus skills, you can't photograph it
with the camera reliably. I could use my old Olympus C3030Z and
get in focus photos, because I just turn on continious focus.
Hi Nicholas,

Not surprised by your experience. Sounds logical. The obvious way to handle the situation is to switch to a fixed AF point, and track your subject. As I understand it, you have manual control over the AF point only in Manual Mode.

--
Jim
 
Well, it shouldn't have taken TEN seconds of following the subject around before AI-Servo mode would kick in. About one second is what it's supposed to take.
David,
I read your thread start to finish when it was bouncing around this
forum. I expected that there would be some reliable way to induce
AI servo. Guess I was wrong. At least I eventually got my money
back.
--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
 
PearlRider had bad experiences (on a 10D) with his AI-Focus. He said all the problems went away by using ALL of the focus points.

Of course, he used to say to never use AI-Focus, and to use just a single focus point.

Go figure.
Not surprised by your experience. Sounds logical. The obvious way
to handle the situation is to switch to a fixed AF point, and track
your subject. As I understand it, you have manual control over the
AF point only in Manual Mode.
--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
 
Who in the right mind is going to put a 4 Lbs lens on a 6 oz body?

I bet 300D is not designed for this sort of job!
Well, I'm one who did. I happen to like it. But I don't expect the Rebel to be able to predict the AF point accurately, so I use manual focus on stuff within 30 yards or so.

What's so illogical about it anyway? That's the beauty of an SLR.
 
I don't think the sports mode limits you to 400 speed. It adjusts depending on available light, I believe. I was taking some action shots of our horses the other day, and I am pretty sure it was shooting at 800, in sports mode. Everything in perfect focus. Large target though, so probably pretty easy for the camera to track. I'll check the EXIF data on those shots when I get home from work tonight.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=6168841
1) I was shooting at a well lit cross country running meet at a
local church. Tons of kids running around, I thought it might be
an opportunity to take advantage of that crop factor with the
70-200IS. Big mistake. I couldn't get the AI servo AF to
activiate for most of the shots. In the end I just kept tapping
the shutter to get it so AF until I liked the composition. Half
the shots were out of focus. It looked obvious that the runner
OK .. Is that possible to explain me WHY only 400speed in sport
mode, even on 10D?? Why all that LIMITS there?? don't know if 1D
or 1Ds have any limits?
--
I never learn English... but I'm a speechifier so much that I can't
stop myself even in unfamiliar language... :)
[email protected]
 
PearlRider had bad experiences (on a 10D) with his AI-Focus. He
said all the problems went away by using ALL of the focus points.
Never said that but it looks promising so far. At least it doesn't change focus on my static subject shooting when composing as it did before but I've not done enough testing to jump to a conclusion. That's your department. ;-)
Of course, he used to say to never use AI-Focus, and to use just a
single focus point.

Go figure.
Man, you never let up do you? And to think people in the 10D forum claim I pick on you. You must have absolutely nothing better to do with your time. Sheesh!

Anyway, I am big enough to admit that I could've been mistaken in my analysis of the AI FOCUS mode on my 10D but I'm still checking it out. So far, I like it using all 7 points instead of only the center one I used before. Even after having the 10D for the past six months, I find I can still learn something about it which is why I advocated getting to KNOW the camera BEFORE doing all the testing. And as you pointed out in another similar thread, no, I don't own a 300D. I never claimed to and never tried to make myself out to be an "expert" on one because I have a 10D. You've got a 1D yet you wish to be an "expert" on BOTH the 10D and the 300D as well when you have ZERO experience with either camera.
 
Wow -- that's ridiculous.

Though I guess it's good for those who decide they want to recompose and shoot.
...for this very reason. I tried many tests under different
conditions and just couldn't get the AIServo to start in anything
under 10 seconds. Definitely a limitation for me when shooting any
kind of movement/motion.
--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
 
I also found AI Focus to work on the 10D. I will admit that my main concern had been that it would be a problem compared with one shot mode. Its also true that many of the images that I take under the conditions where I want AI servo end up with the subject not moving. But I have not noticed problems like those reported here. I will have to make sure that I actually try it on moving subjects.

David Jacobson
 
IOW, AI-Focus sucks, and it makes more sense to use AI-Servo or One-Shot, depending on the type of picture.

Amazing!

Or do you intend to start using AI-Focus now instead of the other modes? ;)

Or exactly when WOULD you recommend AI-Focus? Other than whenever one is forced to do so on a 300D, of course. ;)

--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
 
But I guess if you really only want the front kid to be focus, that would be a limit for this camera.

Shooting wide open can give you good pictures Or give you a headach when your pictures is out of focus.

Also, since you are shooting in aperture mode, and can bump up the iso to 800 or 1600 to get a decent shutter speed.

I was wondering whether you used F8, 1/800, iso1600?

In which case, when you want to take a picture, just point, press shutter button and shoot.

Those three dude should be in focus right?

Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
At least the way the manual describes it, the 10D AI Focus works by detecting that the subject is moving. There is no mention of any kind of lag. That description is what lead me to expect that AI Focus might be a problem when it was necessary to recompose a shot but not when AI Servo was really needed.
--
David Jacobson
 
I don't think AI-Focus (at a fundamental level, anyway) works any different from the 10D to the 300D to any other SLR that has it.

Canon possibly could've "tweaked" a few parameters, but the underlying principle of how the AI-Focus is supposed to work shouldn't be different. It tries to determine if the subject is static or moving, and then switches to an appropriate mode. It always starts in One-Shot, and then willl switch to AI-Servo, if required. I'm not sure if it'll ever switch back to One-Shot, though, unless you let off the shutter button.
At least the way the manual describes it, the 10D AI Focus works by
detecting that the subject is moving. There is no mention of any
kind of lag. That description is what lead me to expect that AI
Focus might be a problem when it was necessary to recompose a shot
but not when AI Servo was really needed.
--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
 
IOW, AI-Focus sucks, and it makes more sense to use AI-Servo or
One-Shot, depending on the type of picture.
Another ASSumption. Didn't say that.
Yes, you are. I see your reading comprehension hasn't yet improved. You're still misquoting people.
Or do you intend to start using AI-Focus now instead of the other
modes? ;)
Actually, I do plan on doing that for the time being.
Or exactly when WOULD you recommend AI-Focus? Other than whenever
one is forced to do so on a 300D, of course. ;)
I'm still evaluating so I have no recommendations at this time. So far, I like it. I'm not going to evaluate how a 300D works in this mode compared to my 10D because they're DIFFERENT cameras. You seem to have a big problem understanding that concept. The 10D is supposed to work like your 1D and thus the 300D is supposed to work like all of them which automatically makes you an expert on all of them. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
 
You make an assumption and then base a conclusion of fact on that. These are different cameras and it's quite possible that there's been some changes made in the design.
 
We should not be surprised by Canon's continuing focusing problems, even on their newest entry. Please check the search area under Canon focusing problems, they have not fixed it yet, regards, Ken.
First of all, let me say that I loved my Digital Rebel for the
first few days, until my memory came in and I really started trying
to shoot serious photos with it. Two commonly shot situations
really bothered me so much that I just couldn't stomach keeping the
camera.

1) I was shooting at a well lit cross country running meet at a
local church. Tons of kids running around, I thought it might be
an opportunity to take advantage of that crop factor with the
70-200IS. Big mistake. I couldn't get the AI servo AF to
activiate for most of the shots. In the end I just kept tapping
the shutter to get it so AF until I liked the composition. Half
the shots were out of focus. It looked obvious that the runner
behind the running I'm focusing on (as he/she runs towards me) is
in focus, but my subject is not. But I thought, shoot, this isn't
a 1D. I'm stretching it here.

2) I was shooting a 14 month old child trotting around. This is
the point at which I decided that if it doesn't sit still, and you
don't have those great manual focus skills, you can't photograph it
with the camera reliably. I could use my old Olympus C3030Z and
get in focus photos, because I just turn on continious focus.
Heres the real clincher.

3) I went to my local Best Buy to return the unit, 14 days after
purchase, and they said go to this other one (short drive away) and
they'd have a 10D and I can switch there (sounds good I think). Go
there and find that all the Best Buys in south Florida are out of
10Ds, out of Digital Rebels. I cannot get an exchange. Period.
Just... no. So then I have to prove that I'm not taking back the
camera because I don't like it, or they'll charge a 15% restocking
fee on this hunk of junk. Its not junk, but I don't just shoot
still lifes. (lives?)

The manager (or so he seemed) found out how to make it go in to
continious focus mode: hold down the shutter on something far,
point at something close, wait 10 seconds, and it goes continious.
Thats the secret of how to start AI servo, hold the shutter a long
time. Now, its 10s at 18mm, I couldn't get it under 30 at 55mm
(f/5.6 is likely the cause). The employee said that this is the
way it should be. It may not work like I want it to, it may not
work as advertised, but it does work, so I have to pay $150 for
them to take the camera back. Little note; the problem is no
different when using a 50/1.4.

He then told me to call corporate if I wasn't happy. So I did,
stood around on hold with them until they picked up, and they told
me they had to talk to Canon to get the specs. 20 minutes later
I'm on with the Canon guy that said he didn't know what the
appropriate lag time between One Shot AF and AI Servo should be,
they don't have the specs, but it shouldn't be 10 seconds. I tried
to get the "manager" so the Canon rep could say this to him.
Nowhere to be found.

I got someone else who talked to the Canon rep for a minute and
hung up. She asks "What did Jose[?] say we were calling Canon
for?" Corporate wanted to leave the decision up the Canon, I tell
her. She goes off, says she'll try to see if she can get another
Digital Rebel in the store by talking to a Regional Supervisor.
Heck, I can sell a new box on EBay. She dissapeared. The manager
guy comes back and says everything will be refunded and my credit
card will be credited. I was just shocked.

Sigh.

I don't know if this 3.5 hour ordeal was worth $150. Worst thing
was I did it first thing in the morning and was going to drop off
the camera and go back home to eat breakfast. I layed there
starved on the Best Buy floor on perpetual hold.

A few more notes: I know that the sports idiot mode gives AI Servo
AF, but no RAW capture, so the highlights are as good as gone. I
ordered a 10D from an online retailer with a bunch of good ratings
later today, hope to get it in by Friday. I hope I don't have to
deal with any AF issues on the 10D. And if I can post the photos I
will, so you's can see what I mean about the late focus.



Runners. I just couldn't convince the AI Servo to kick in. Center
AF point used, pointing at the left shoulder of the kid a bit left
of center.

Go here for a 50% downsampled version:
http://www.pbase.com/image/21602661/original

I don't mean to seem ungrateful, but it just wouldn't do what I
told it to, far too often.
--
Ken
 

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