FZ80 vs ZS70 vs ZS200

About two months ago, I bought FZ80. While it has super zoom, the images are quite blurry at anything over 40x. Also, shooting anything over 800 ISO and the photos get grainy. So, I am debating on returning this and getting either ZS70 or ZS200.

What I like about the ZS70 is more powerful zoom. The ZS200 has better sensor and seems better for low light photography and shutter speed. Is there anything else I am missing? Also, is there a significant difference between FZ80 and ZS70 when it comes to zooming at 30x and photos at ISO 1,600 and above?

The two most important factors are zoom and ability to shoot in the dark. At least 30% of the photos are evening/night and I would say 5% of the photos would require 20x to 30x zoom. What I am trying to understand is how good the extra 15x zoom is in ZS70 and how noticeably poor is ZS70 in low light vs ZS200? I was quite disappointed with the quality of zoom past 30x in FZ80.

ubuntu1 said:

The two most important factors are zoom and ability to shoot in the dark. At least 30% of the photos are evening/night and I would say 5% of the photos would require 20x to 30x zoom.

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Do you realized with those cameras and their small max apertures will need to use tripod and long shutter speeds to use low ISO to avoid excessive high ISO image noise especially with the FZ80 and ZS70 small 1/2.3" sensor.

You can play around with different cameras, ISO's, etc. with the DPR Studio Shot Comparison Tool HERE to get an idea the IQ in lower light and higher ISO's. Note exposure for shots were 1/6 sec. or 1/8 sec..

Just as a example of larger FF sensor benefit included the Nikon D750.



Cheers,
Jon

Jon_T said:

ubuntu1 said:

The two most important factors are zoom and ability to shoot in the dark. At least 30% of the photos are evening/night and I would say 5% of the photos would require 20x to 30x zoom.

Click to expand...

Do you realized with those cameras and their small max apertures will need to use tripod and long shutter speeds to use low ISO to avoid excessive high ISO image noise especially with the FZ80 and ZS70 small 1/2.3" sensor.

You can play around with different cameras, ISO's, etc. with the DPR Studio Shot Comparison Tool HERE to get an idea the IQ in lower light and higher ISO's. Note exposure for shots were 1/6 sec. or 1/8 sec..

Just as a example of larger FF sensor benefit included the Nikon D750.



Cheers,
Jon

Click to expand...

Thanks Jon, that tool was super helpful. Decided to go with the ZS70. While the ZS200 is better in low light, it is probably 1 stop better than ZS70 -- in print format, IS800 image in ZS 70 had just about as much clarity as ISO 1600 in ZS200. While that is great, most of my shots will be around 800 and those that will be higher would be longish exposure shots using a tripod. So, I will benefit quite a lot with the extra zoom. Plus, ZS70 is quite a bit cheaper.

Recently acquired the ZS70 for its super-zoom and to carry around all the time. I had read all about how noisy it is and it's true, it's pretty bad at least in comparison with my m43 gear. The best solution I've found is to shoot only RAW and process with DXO Photolab using Prime noise reduction. Photos come out much cleaner without losing much sharpness. I've already got some nice shots I wouldn't have gotten otherwise without it and am very pleased that I got it.

****

ubuntu1 said:

About two months ago, I bought FZ80. While it has super zoom, the images are quite blurry at anything over 40x. Also, shooting anything over 800 ISO and the photos get grainy. So, I am debating on returning this and getting either ZS70 or ZS200.

What I like about the ZS70 is more powerful zoom. The ZS200 has better sensor and seems better for low light photography and shutter speed. Is there anything else I am missing? Also, is there a significant difference between FZ80 and ZS70 when it comes to zooming at 30x and photos at ISO 1,600 and above?

Click to expand...

You are going to return a after using it for two months? ?

ubuntu1 said:

About two months ago, I bought FZ80. While it has super zoom, the images are quite blurry at anything over 40x. Also, shooting anything over 800 ISO and the photos get grainy. So, I am debating on returning this and getting either ZS70 or ZS200.

What I like about the ZS70 is more powerful zoom. The ZS200 has better sensor and seems better for low light photography and shutter speed. Is there anything else I am missing? Also, is there a significant difference between FZ80 and ZS70 when it comes to zooming at 30x and photos at ISO 1,600 and above?

Click to expand...

IF your main priority is low light (and you say that it is - 30%) over longest zoom (5%), then I would say go for the bigger sensor of the ZS200. You can always zoom further by cropping, and you will still get a better picture than if you had a third more zoom with a tiny sensor.

But you should also bear in mind that Panasonic's weakness with superzooms is IQ at full zoom. On the other hand, ANY small sensor from any company will perform poorly in low light.

If I was making your particular choice, I'd go for a larger sensor, and avoid maximum zoom: either by crop after the event, or using EZ or iZoom to get further without using maximum zoom.

Sactojim said:

ubuntu1 said:

About two months ago, I bought FZ80. While it has super zoom, the images are quite blurry at anything over 40x. Also, shooting anything over 800 ISO and the photos get grainy. So, I am debating on returning this and getting either ZS70 or ZS200.

What I like about the ZS70 is more powerful zoom. The ZS200 has better sensor and seems better for low light photography and shutter speed. Is there anything else I am missing? Also, is there a significant difference between FZ80 and ZS70 when it comes to zooming at 30x and photos at ISO 1,600 and above?

Click to expand...

You are going to return a after using it for two months? ?

Click to expand...

Yes, one of the many perks of buying with Amex. I have used their extended warranty once and this would be the first time in at least 20 years, I will be using their return protection.

I have the zs70 and while I don't have the 200, I do have the zs100. The one inch sensor makes a difference. The 200 doesn't have the zoom, however I can crop and get a really nice close up with lots of clarity. This allows me to have the picture I want and the low light capabilities.

Texas hobbyist said:

I have the zs70 and while I don't have the 200, I do have the zs100. The one inch sensor makes a difference. The 200 doesn't have the zoom, however I can crop and get a really nice close up with lots of clarity. This allows me to have the picture I want and the low light capabilities.

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Not sure what you meant by "The 200 doesn't have to zoom" Did you mean 100?

It's also worth pointing out that the build quality of the 100/200 is superior to the small sensor ZS's and the 200 EVF & handling are a quantum leap too. The 200 in particular is quite expensive too, although I consider it worth it.

Dave

Yes, I meant the zs100 does not have the zoom of the other camera.

Texas hobbyist said:

I have the zs70 and while I don't have the 200, I do have the zs100. The one inch sensor makes a difference. The 200 doesn't have the zoom, however I can crop and get a really nice close up with lots of clarity. This allows me to have the picture I want and the low light capabilities.

Click to expand...

Makes a difference mostly for night shots or in general?

It's is considerably better for night shots. I was concerned when I purchased it because I prefer more zoom. It has not disappointed at all. I shoot with the 10X optical zoom then if I want closer I crop it in editing software and it's great. I haven't seen any graininess at all.

ubuntu1 said:

Jon_T said:

ubuntu1 said:

The two most important factors are zoom and ability to shoot in the dark. At least 30% of the photos are evening/night and I would say 5% of the photos would require 20x to 30x zoom.

Click to expand...

Do you realized with those cameras and their small max apertures will need to use tripod and long shutter speeds to use low ISO to avoid excessive high ISO image noise especially with the FZ80 and ZS70 small 1/2.3" sensor.

You can play around with different cameras, ISO's, etc. with the DPR Studio Shot Comparison Tool HERE to get an idea the IQ in lower light and higher ISO's. Note exposure for shots were 1/6 sec. or 1/8 sec..

Just as a example of larger FF sensor benefit included the Nikon D750.



Cheers,
Jon

Click to expand...

Thanks Jon, that tool was super helpful. ...

Click to expand...

You're welcome.

ubuntu1 said:

... Decided to go with the ZS70. While the ZS200 is better in low light, it is probably 1 stop better than ZS70 ...

Click to expand...

Actually around 2+ stops -- the 1"-Type sensor surface area is a little more the 4X the 1/2.3" sensor, hence 1"-Type sensor will always have less sensor noise than the 1/2.3" under the same lighting conditions/ ISO.

Screenshot from DPR ZS100 review:



Screenshot from DxO ZS60 - ZS100 comparison:

ubuntu1 said:

-- in print format, IS800 image in ZS 70 had just about as much clarity as ISO 1600 in ZS200. ...

Click to expand...

JPG images? For myself I can get FAR better low light/ higher ISO images with my FZ1000 or ZS100 than any 1/2.3" sensor camera which I've around a dozen over the years.

At lower lighting and/or higher ISO's the in-camera NR progressively deteriorates the resolution of images' fine details. See a older post of mine HERE .

Couple of processed 1600 ISO RAW images:


FZ1000 1600 ISO

In my "Several Pics of Titanic Exhibit" HERE are ZS100 1600 RAW shots of a low lighting indoor exhibit. Even at 800 ISO a 20.3MP 1/2.3" MOS Sensor will match the overall IQ/ lower noise level,

You have not provided any details or sample images to explain/ show the type of shots you want to get; hence just a example/ FYI can see some ZS100 evening concert images posted by others HERE and HERE.

For myself (and DxO testing) the optimum pixel density for best "overall" IQ with 1/2.3" sensor is 12MP (i.e.,ZS50 12M pixel size is 1.7X larger than the 20.3MP ZS70) . Which IMHO why Panasonic kept the FZ300/ FZ330 at 12MP — be interesting to see if there's a FZ300/FZ300 replacement Panasonic will stay with the 12MP.

Bottom Line: If you're happy with the ZS70 IQ and can capture the type/ quality of images you want/ need then that's all that really matters.

Cheers,
Jon

Jon_T said:

For myself (and DxO testing) the optimum pixel density for best "overall" IQ with 1/2.3" sensor is 12MP (i.e.,ZS50 12M pixel size is 1.7X larger than the 20.3MP ZS70) . Which IMHO why Panasonic kept the FZ300/ FZ330 at 12MP — be interesting to see if there's a FZ300/FZ300 replacement Panasonic will stay with the 12MP.

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That explains why the FZ38 and FZ47 (12MP) were - still are - very capable cameras.

Shooting RAW and cropping has always given me noticeably better results than shooting using any of the digital zooms, which require shooting in JPEG.

Got the camera yesterday and took a couple of dozen photos on both ZS70 and FZ80. In short, the ZS70 is a compact version of FZ80. You give up zoom range for smaller size and half the weight. Zoom performance is also more or less identical – both at around 30x. Not much difference in night shots in artistic nightscape mode.

Overall, I am glad I switched from FZ80 (still need to return it) to ZS70 as the camera is so much smaller. But for night shots, I will most likely have to get the ZS200. I even added both cameras (the 70 and 200) to the cart, put in my CC info but just could not hit the checkout button.

In hindsight, I should have picked the ZS200 based on how much I shoot in the night and how little full zoom I use. But got lured by the lower price for the 70 -- the cost was about 40% cheaper and both cameras came with 4 year Panasonic warranty (3 year from Panasonic and 1 year extra from Amex) compared to two years for FZ80 – 1 from Panasonic and 1 from Amex.