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Do you do non-refundable deposits during holidays?

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KE_DP

KE_DP

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Holidays are coming and there is a very small window of time in my area where there are many long distance family get togethers. I'm getting booked up quickly (good) but just a bit concerned about flakes or "changes" that might wreck the schedule. The last 8 work days of the year are extremely high demand, and limited time - so I'm feeling like we might ask for non-refundable deposits - which I've never felt the need to do before.

I just have to tactfully present these terms to clients. And the reality is I'd rather not get into a conflict on a cancellation over a deposit - it creates too much bad word of mouth so I'd probably let them slide. It's more of a financial "reminder" stick to wave, to keep their appointments and not try to move things or cancel. We will have contracts for the dates/time slots.

I'd welcome feedback on creative ways to manage this - or do I just skip it since we may not be overly inclined to enforce it anyway? hmmmm
 
KE_DP said:
Holidays are coming and there is a very small window of time in my area where there are many long distance family get togethers. I'm getting booked up quickly (good) but just a bit concerned about flakes or "changes" that might wreck the schedule. The last 8 work days of the year are extremely high demand, and limited time - so I'm feeling like we might ask for non-refundable deposits - which I've never felt the need to do before.

I just have to tactfully present these terms to clients. And the reality is I'd rather not get into a conflict on a cancellation over a deposit - it creates too much bad word of mouth so I'd probably let them slide. It's more of a financial "reminder" stick to wave, to keep their appointments and not try to move things or cancel. We will have contracts for the dates/time slots.

I'd welcome feedback on creative ways to manage this - or do I just skip it since we may not be overly inclined to enforce it anyway? hmmmm
Click to expand...
There are no holidays. Holidays are a social convention. Not my concern.

Every day is the same light, the same equipment and the same me as every other day. First come first serve. Non commercial (essentially that translates to no usage to factor in) clients all pay the same rate.

There are no deposits.

For first time clients it's either a flat fee paid in advance in full, or it is a flat fee paid in advance in full with invoiced expenses paid on delivery. Known clients there is more flexibility. Known clients are far less likely to mess with you.

Cheers.
 
I think it's completely fair and logical. People tend to treat things and people much better when they have to pay for them first.

For instance I was involved with a clinic that didn't charge people for missed appointments and every other day somebody missed an appointment without bothering to cancel it. Even a manager I already knew, who you'd think would understand the issues. Sometimes they'd even miss their appointments at home or tell practicioners they couldn't come to the door, come back later!

Maybe indeed you should make people pay the entire thing upfront and tell them it's cancellable with full refund one week before the shoot or 75% until 72 hours before (just as an example).
 
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My smaller shoots like portraits, models tests and others require a retainer to hold the time and I assume they've already planned for it. I do require a signed document along with the retainer, the fact that it's the holidays should reinforce the policy. My Commercial paperwork is completely different, they know the date is set, expenses incurred and cancellation fees are agreed upon.

--
http://www.tonyclarkphoto.com
http://www.tcphoto.org
 
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Thanks all -

I think the idea of refundable with progressive later cancellation penalties works well.

Holidays do matter because it's limited time and high demand - at a premium.
Dealing with the average consumer means there is always a percentage of flake factor. Making them put a little "skin in the game" as it were, makes it much more likely they will take it seriously (as mentioned by FW). If we end up idle because of a no show - it's lost revenue for us, and a lost opportunity for someone else who couldn't get in.
 
I had to go back and edit my post by replacing "deposit" for "retainer" since deposit can be interpreted for refundable and retainer implies that it accounts for ones time.
 
KE_DP said:
Holidays are coming and there is a very small window of time in my area where there are many long distance family get togethers. I'm getting booked up quickly (good) but just a bit concerned about flakes or "changes" that might wreck the schedule. The last 8 work days of the year are extremely high demand, and limited time - so I'm feeling like we might ask for non-refundable deposits - which I've never felt the need to do before.

I just have to tactfully present these terms to clients. And the reality is I'd rather not get into a conflict on a cancellation over a deposit - it creates too much bad word of mouth so I'd probably let them slide. It's more of a financial "reminder" stick to wave, to keep their appointments and not try to move things or cancel. We will have contracts for the dates/time slots.

I'd welcome feedback on creative ways to manage this - or do I just skip it since we may not be overly inclined to enforce it anyway? hmmmm
Click to expand...
While Denwil may be shooting in a very exclusive universe, most photogs don't live there.

Of course there's a difference between holiday season and the dead of winter. I always, always take a deposit from clients. It doesn't have to be awkward at all. I just make it in third person- as opposed to saying I need a deposit from you now,ie, give me some of your money, put it in terms they understand "In order to guarantee your slot, so I can reserve it for you and no one else can book it, a $XXX deposit is required" Or, "If you're ready to confirm your booking...."

The benefits of a deposit are twofold, and you really mentioned both already: to guarantee they're serious when booking, and weed out people who don't respect your time and expertise, and to have them emotionally committed to doing the shoot. Once they've laid out money, it becomes more emotionally difficult to back out, even if it's only $50.
 
I am in a tourist area and we have a similar situation.

I absolutely charge non-refundable fees to book a shoot during this season. A deposit is legally a refundable item in some jurisdictions. (I am not a lawyer though I play one in my dreams). You are selling a slot of time. Once that slot passes, you cannot sell it at all.

Any client who doesn't want to do pay doesn't get a shoot. Simple.

You can't cancel hotel rooms in our area in the season, most people fly the cheap non-cancellable seats on airplanes.

They should get it. If they don't it is a red flag that you are dealing with a client you don't want.

I got some pushback the first year, after that only once or twice.

But then again I get pushback for quoting a price at all.
 
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Photomonkey said:
I am in a tourist area and we have a similar situation.

I absolutely charge non-refundable fees to book a shoot during this season. A deposit is legally a refundable item in some jurisdictions. (I am not a lawyer though I play one in my dreams). You are selling a slot of time. Once that slot passes, you cannot sell it at all.

Any client who doesn't want to do pay doesn't get a shoot. Simple.

You can't cancel hotel rooms in our area in the season, most people fly the cheap non-cancellable seats on airplanes.

They should get it. If they don't it is a red flag that you are dealing with a client you don't want.

I got some pushback the first year, after that only once or twice.

But then again I get pushback for quoting a price at all.
Click to expand...
A nice way of putting it.

I don't see the problem with paying for something in advance, when you're effectively handing someone a cooling-off period before the shoot.

It also makes it a lot harder for that special class of people who'll try to forward some reason why your work should be cheaper after the shoot. You can't always tell who's like that beforehand, because getting what you want before you have to pay, presents too much of a temptation to people in all walks of life.
 
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fishy wishy said:
Photomonkey said:
I am in a tourist area and we have a similar situation.

I absolutely charge non-refundable fees to book a shoot during this season. A deposit is legally a refundable item in some jurisdictions. (I am not a lawyer though I play one in my dreams). You are selling a slot of time. Once that slot passes, you cannot sell it at all.

Any client who doesn't want to do pay doesn't get a shoot. Simple.

You can't cancel hotel rooms in our area in the season, most people fly the cheap non-cancellable seats on airplanes.

They should get it. If they don't it is a red flag that you are dealing with a client you don't want.

I got some pushback the first year, after that only once or twice.

But then again I get pushback for quoting a price at all.
Click to expand...
A nice way of putting it.

I don't see the problem with paying for something in advance, when you're effectively handing someone a cooling-off period before the shoot.

It also makes it a lot harder for that special class of people who'll try to forward some reason why your work should be cheaper after the shoot. You can't always tell who's like that beforehand, because getting what you want before you have to pay, presents too much of a temptation to people in all walks of life.
Click to expand...
You touch upon another issue of scheduling family portraits.

Often it is an enthusiastic family member who thinks it is a great idea to get a family portrait while on vacation. They book well in advance, much good feelings and so on.

Day of shoot arrives and the glow has gone. Family is cranky about waking up early , delaying fun activities (in our area the guys are mad they can't get on the golf courses). Shoot usually goes fine but orders can often be scanty as enthusiasm has waned and poor associations with the session (crying babies, cranky husbands) dim the buying urge more.

Thus my fee was at a point that even if they ordered nothing, my time was covered.
 
Photomonkey said:
I am in a tourist area and we have a similar situation.

I absolutely charge non-refundable fees to book a shoot during this season. A deposit is legally a refundable item in some jurisdictions. (I am not a lawyer though I play one in my dreams). You are selling a slot of time. Once that slot passes, you cannot sell it at all.

Any client who doesn't want to do pay doesn't get a shoot. Simple.

You can't cancel hotel rooms in our area in the season, most people fly the cheap non-cancellable seats on airplanes.

They should get it. If they don't it is a red flag that you are dealing with a client you don't want.

I got some pushback the first year, after that only once or twice.

But then again I get pushback for quoting a price at all.
Click to expand...
 
Photomonkey said:
You touch upon another issue of scheduling family portraits.

Often it is an enthusiastic family member who thinks it is a great idea to get a family portrait while on vacation. They book well in advance, much good feelings and so on.

Day of shoot arrives and the glow has gone. Family is cranky about waking up early , delaying fun activities (in our area the guys are mad they can't get on the golf courses). Shoot usually goes fine but orders can often be scanty as enthusiasm has waned and poor associations with the session (crying babies, cranky husbands) dim the buying urge more.

Thus my fee was at a point that even if they ordered nothing, my time was covered.
Click to expand...
You're getting into something that I experienced this past weekend. A family photo shoot that was scheduled weeks ago, but the day of the shoot it had to be rescheduled because of 50 mph wind, and smoke from nearby wildfires. I offered to do the pics in my home studio, but the husband was adamant about outdoor shots. The rescheduled time is a few weeks from now because of other shoots/commitments.

They paid in advance. I offered to refund their money, but they didn't want to do that because they want the shots.

What do you do in the event that circumstances out of everyone's control results in a cancellation? I'm assuming that you would refund the deposit if a rescheduling is not possible, right?

--
I feel more like I do now than I did before ...
https://danielmedley.smugmug.com/
 
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Krav Maga said:
Photomonkey said:
You touch upon another issue of scheduling family portraits.

Often it is an enthusiastic family member who thinks it is a great idea to get a family portrait while on vacation. They book well in advance, much good feelings and so on.

Day of shoot arrives and the glow has gone. Family is cranky about waking up early , delaying fun activities (in our area the guys are mad they can't get on the golf courses). Shoot usually goes fine but orders can often be scanty as enthusiasm has waned and poor associations with the session (crying babies, cranky husbands) dim the buying urge more.

Thus my fee was at a point that even if they ordered nothing, my time was covered.
Click to expand...
You're getting into something that I experienced this past weekend. A family photo shoot that was scheduled weeks ago, but the day of the shoot it had to be rescheduled because of 50 mph wind, and smoke from nearby wildfires. I offered to do the pics in my home studio, but the husband was adamant about outdoor shots. The rescheduled time is a few weeks from now because of other shoots/commitments.

They paid in advance. I offered to refund their money, but they didn't want to do that because they want the shots.

What do you do in the event that circumstances out of everyone's control results in a cancellation? I'm assuming that you would refund the deposit if a rescheduling is not possible, right?
Click to expand...
That is an individual decision. I have refunded session fees but very rarely. E.G. a shoot scheduled to celebrate a 90th birthday was cancelled as the birthday boy died. :/

Online reviews such as Yelp and your sensitivity to them might guide your decision.
 
I refer to them as a booking fee and as such it is not refundable. I also take payment as a check which I then deposit as soon as possible. A credit card charge can be denied and then you are out the amount paid.
 
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