A safe move if bug macros are your main subject material.mine was 3 years ago
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Will DSLR be replaced by mirrorless?
- Thread starter Jonathan Brady
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spiritoftheeast
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nt=Paaaarrrttt ttwwwoooo.
Corkcampbell
Forum Pro
--
"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
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PhotoTeach2
Forum Pro
Yep, it has been discussed before ...
But you do realize that w/ Canon/Nikon introductions, EVERYTHING has now changed.
There were MANY in "denial", and one of their main reasons/arguments is that (neither) Canon/Nikon had accepted it, and thus there may not (ever) be a future in ML, (especially if Sony got OUT of the "camera" business).
Many felt that neither Canon/Nikon would EVER enter the fray.
But now that Canon/Nikon have indeed entered the debate, it is an entirely new ball-game and the deniers can not longer make their same (old) claims.
The main issue, (for "me"), is how competitive they can be to the A9.
bjn70
Veteran Member
Mirrorless and cellphones are too similar- I think at some time people will just use their cellphones. DSLR still offers something that cellphones don't so they might actually last.
Sybil Enders
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Nothing screams "death of the DSLR" like the Nikon Z and EOS R. Canon has tried harder than Nikon to pretend this isn't the case, releasing the half-hearted, half-baked EOS R. But most of us know better!
For one, that sumptuous Z-mount shames the constrained F-mount into submission. I don't see engineers going out of their way to design glass for a soon-to-be defunct mount when they could instead soar to new optomechanical heights with the Z.
That, coupled with IBIS, about a thousand more focus points, and usable video AF, all but spells doom for the Nikon DSLR.
For one, that sumptuous Z-mount shames the constrained F-mount into submission. I don't see engineers going out of their way to design glass for a soon-to-be defunct mount when they could instead soar to new optomechanical heights with the Z.
That, coupled with IBIS, about a thousand more focus points, and usable video AF, all but spells doom for the Nikon DSLR.
PhotoTeach2
Forum Pro
That makes NO SENSE AT ALL.
(Cell) PHONES are "flat" things ... with NO VISIBLE LENS at all.
ML "CAMERAS" (can) look identical to dSLR's, (except maybe smaller/lighter). They both have visible LENSES.
Now I certainly agree that cell-phones may indeed satisfy your (camera) needs --- BUT --- if they dont then they are not similar at all and THAT is who the poll/question is to.
The question is to those indeed considering dSLR vs ML.
PhotoTeach2
Forum Pro
Yes ... especially if they can go the next step to A9 equivalent.
It is just a shame Canon has decided the "M" mount was inadequate. I fear that, and lack of IBIS, will be a competitive problem for them.
I selected the option "MILC will outsell DSLRs in 10-15 years" because I think it will eventually happen, but it won't happen any time soon. And probably not in my own lifetime.
I say this because there really are advantages and disadvantages to BOTH formats, so some people will always prefer one over the other. Over the long term, I believe that MILC will prevail because it offers more advanced technology and represents a lower cost of production for the camera makers.
But the truth is... there really isn't that much difference between these two formats. Whether a mirror exists or not, both are interchangeable lens systems with multiple sensor sizes available for buyers. They are about as different as a two door sedan is from a two door coupe.
This is really much ado about nothing. And I probably should add I am a pretty rabid MILC fan. One who is able to put things in perspective and context.
I say this because there really are advantages and disadvantages to BOTH formats, so some people will always prefer one over the other. Over the long term, I believe that MILC will prevail because it offers more advanced technology and represents a lower cost of production for the camera makers.
But the truth is... there really isn't that much difference between these two formats. Whether a mirror exists or not, both are interchangeable lens systems with multiple sensor sizes available for buyers. They are about as different as a two door sedan is from a two door coupe.
This is really much ado about nothing. And I probably should add I am a pretty rabid MILC fan. One who is able to put things in perspective and context.
PhotoTeach2
Forum Pro
I suggest that is the time-frame they originally predicted film's demise. It didnt take that long when the "avalanche" started.
I predict the new Can-Nikon announcements will hasten the ML avalanche.
If you are truly a "rabid" fan ... I cant believe you cant acknowledge ML has (many) possible options not possible w/ inherent mirror limitations.
Thomas Rose
Well-known member
Mirrorless advantages:
- Fewer moving parts ... more reliable (and, most likely, cheaper to make)
- With no mirror in the way the exit pupil of the lens can be closer to the sensor ... allows lenses to be designed without the compromises made necessary by the larger distance that is needed in a DSLR. (Especially good for wide angles)
- No mirror = one fewer sources of vibration
- Lack of a mirror enables faster frame rates
- Camera bodies can be a little bit lighter and thinner than equivalent DSLRs
- More accurate autofocus that never needs adjustment and does not requires lenses to be calibrated
- EVF ... WYSIWYG
- Mature technology ... most of the problems have been solved
- Longer battery life
- Some photographers still prefer an OVF even over today's excellent EVF's
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All the strikethrough"ML advantages" can be done by a DSLR with mirror up, using liveview, included the WYSIWYG but not in EVF.
You can add on DSLR advantages that you have never any (inconstant) lag (longer than light speed ok
) on the viewer and almost "infinite" quality of the view compared to any electronic device.
Jonsi
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I have a feeling it'll be sooner because Nikon and Canon will be producing a number of new versions in that time. This really is their game to control.
But not really something I waste time worrying about.
A rarity around here.
I don't understand some peoples' need to constantly try and convince others that MILC is so much better than anything else. If mirrorless is ever better than DSLR to me, I may consider it.
But I won't be spending my time trying to convince people online how much better my camera is than theirs.
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Sybil Enders
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Do any people really need convincing anymore? I thought it's pretty much settled that MILC offers significant advantages.
Now, a few people don't need those advantages, but that doesn't mean those advantages don't exist.
I think the issue arises when a few people claim MILC isn't better, which is an inaccurate assessment.
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ClaudiusTheGod
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nt
Jonsi
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Well Bag of Rocks/Cloven Hoof/etc...
You're wasting your time trying to convince me that MILC is better, simply because I honestly don't care if you think it is. It's the need to constantly ramble on and on about why it's better that I referred to. Something you and Teach, and a few others do. Always.
For me there is no advantage, only disadvantages, but they aren't image related. I have normal man-sized hands, so the current versions of ML are too small, although Nikon and Canon may have changed that. Plus EVF delay is nothing if not annoying.
Anyway, the new username is very feminine. That should throw people off.
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Mackiesback
Forum Pro
Not apples to apples. That is comparing a wholesale medium change vs, in essence, a change of a few in-camera features. They don't compare in significance at all. Film to digital is horse to automobile. DSLR top ML is manual transmission to automatic.
I agree, although I think the term "avalanche" is a bit breathless. See that? I used quotation marks for a word where I was actually quoting something. <hint>
That's not really the conversation we are having, and I thank Marty for not going down that rabbit hole for what will be the millionth time here.
Jonathan Brady
Veteran Member
While no analogy is perfect, that one is pretty good.
Consumer-level automatic transmissions were derided for not being as fast/efficient to change gears... Until they were faster.
Also, some people enjoy the mechanical experience of driving a manual transmission vehicle (like I think some will enjoy DSLR for it's mechanical nature).
Finally... There aren't many manual transmission vehicles sold these days. In the US, anyway. Not sure about elsewhere. And that's odd, too, since historically, manual transmission vehicles were typically cheaper to buy. People overwhelmingly voted for convenience with their wallets.
I do believe that mirrorless offers more convenience to users, and not just related to size/weight/bulk. And as computational photography advances and becomes applicable to dedicated cameras with larger sensors, mirrorless will pull away from DSLR with that convenient feature set as well. Sure, you can use live view on a DSLR and use the same feature set, but that's not very convenient compared to a viewfinder due to glare as well as holding the camera.
Jonathan Brady
Veteran Member
Crap! I did! Not sure how that happened...
I had a plug-in that I disabled shortly after writing this poll that I used for grammar checks that would often wreak havoc with my posts. I wonder if it was the culprit.
I had a plug-in that I disabled shortly after writing this poll that I used for grammar checks that would often wreak havoc with my posts. I wonder if it was the culprit.
Mackiesback
Forum Pro
I have been using that analogy for a while because I think it more accurately describes the difference, highlighting that it is perhaps not as monumental as some of the more vocal here proclaim it to be.
FYI....the US seems to be unique in embracing the automatic transmission. Nearly half the cars in Europe are still manuals.
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