When we are told M43 can't cut it (Link)

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You have a different understanding of 'understanding' to me, then. I think it is possible both to be talented without understanding, and to understand without being talented. I think this is quite evident in many fields, where wonderful practitioners prove to be quite incapable of passing on their skills to others, and also where quite moderate practitioners turn out to be extremely good coaches.
Most famous photographers don't know details of the technology in photography, many doesn't even know all their gear capabilities and possibilities.

They have gathered their experience other means, they have a vision of the work that they want to do and they don't care about anything else.

There are many critically claimed photographers who has no idea about exposure or denoising etc. They just work with the cameras they have.

Some doesn't even know does their cameras have a pop-up flash, or how to get it open.
They don't know all the lenses there are, they just know they want wider or narrower view.
They work with basic rules of thumbs as what shutter speed for action or when flash is in use.

And they don't need to, when they get what they want and like, they are happy.
I'm afraid I don't understand your point. Are you saying that ignorance of how things work is a plus? That understanding the technical interferes with the artistic?
It is said that insecurity is hidden behind the scientific explanations.
Who said that besides you? Can you give an example of insecurity that is hidden behing a scientific explanation?
My personal experience (which at this moment in history is shared by a lot of other people, too) is that insecurity is mostly hidden behind willful ignorance and/or lies. Oh, and BS.
Seems to be the case here. Equivalence is pseudo science in spite of being very well explained and substantiated. The error in the exposure triangle is better explained by magic than by a simple correction to make it more accurate and asking for technical perfection in a $2000 msrp camera body is mindless pixel peeping.

Robert
 
Again this kind of post here?
If there is no difference in equipment use a cell phone then. Oh wait. Is that a step too far? Well, now you know why most who shoot with bigger sensors won't downgrade to something smaller and less competent.
And I thought it was due to a fear of choosing anything but the biggest and best, regardless of whether it is of any practical benefit. Judging from how few examples are posted in support of these discussions which demonstrate the real world benefit of larger sensors it certainly can’t be anything to do with the results that are being achieved!
Of course the exact same can be said for why people are spending so much for a mft body and lenses when a digicam would do the trick just as well, especially since portability is such a high priority over image quaility.
Indeed. Other than the the point that image quality can be just as good with a digicam as with m4/3 or FF if you don’t need to go outside of the range they have in common - so picking the most suitable camera and sensor is far from just being ‘bigger is better’.
Just as a reminder that we use the gear to take photos, here is one of my PAGB Gold Medal images ‘Passed by Society’... taken with a Nikon1 V1 and its diminutive sensor:

Congratulations. Nice photo, and an excellent illustration of the point.

Robert


--
Have Fun
Photo Pete
 
A shot of a Rolex for a glossy magazine ad would usually need the very best technical execution possible and gear that goes with that.

But a shot of a family member during a special occasion is more important for capturing the moment even if it is a bit noisy and a fraction out of focus.
One might also argue that such an image can also be ruined by something as simple as using too slow a shutter speed.
Often the challenge is to capture the moment or communicate a message with great timing, framing, use of light and yet have technical mastery of the image as well.

Sometimes intentional "flaws" such as vignetting and noise/ grain or soft focus is introduced to "improve" a shot that is too "clinical".
Even the intentional application such technical flaws involves technical knowledge.
A great photo can be many different things to many different people. For me personally, my challenge is to try and worry a little less about technical perfection as it can hold me back from seeing another point of view or pressing the shutter when I should.
Robert
 
Of course the exact same can be said for why people are spending so much for a mft body and lenses when a digicam would do the trick just as well, especially since portability is such a high priority over image quaility.
Indeed. Other than the the point that image quality can be just as good with a digicam as with m4/3 or FF if you don’t need to go outside of the range they have in common - so picking the most suitable camera and sensor is far from just being ‘bigger is better’.
That's the ironic thing. I have much more often heard people claiming that someone else said that bigger is better than I've actually heard anyone actually say that bigger was better.

Case in point. Great Bustard has taken a bad rap forever for supposedly perpetuating just such a claim simply for explaining the reality of a certain set of easily substantiated facts, in spite of almost constantly acknowledging that mft is probably overkill for most photographers. Meanwhile, one of those who have been the most vocal and persistent in ridiculing GB's assertions in spite of all evidence to the contrary acknowledges that in some ways bigger is better, while all while continuing to deny that it has anything to do with anything equivalence related.

Go figure.

Robert
 
Of course the exact same can be said for why people are spending so much for a mft body and lenses when a digicam would do the trick just as well, especially since portability is such a high priority over image quaility.
Indeed. Other than the the point that image quality can be just as good with a digicam as with m4/3 or FF if you don’t need to go outside of the range they have in common - so picking the most suitable camera and sensor is far from just being ‘bigger is better’.
That's the ironic thing. I have much more often heard people claiming that someone else said that bigger is better than I've actually heard anyone actually say that bigger was better.

Case in point. Great Bustard has taken a bad rap forever for supposedly perpetuating just such a claim simply for explaining the reality of a certain set of easily substantiated facts, in spite of almost constantly acknowledging that mft is probably overkill for most photographers. Meanwhile, one of those who have been the most vocal and persistent in ridiculing GB's assertions in spite of all evidence to the contrary acknowledges that in some ways bigger is better, while all while continuing to deny that it has anything to do with anything equivalence related.

Go figure.

Robert
I think you are out of line here. Seems like the discussion was a simple back and forth with quite a bit of agreement and no significant claims of this or that. Then you felt you had to make a veiled personal attack unrelated to this thread.
 
Example: I am currently using m4/3, but my photos do not seem "adequate" in some way, maybe its too much noise in dim light, so I bought a DSLR APS-C system, I really like what the large sensor can do, but now I do not like the crop factor and would like to use the lenses in the capacity they were designed for, so I bought a DSLR FF system. Why should I have to put up with mirror slap, and blackout? I think I need mirrorless.

Sometimes insecurity is more obvious. Ansel Adams is rolling over in his grave.
 
A Nikon 1 would have been great system, of Nikon would have made 15-20 lenses to it. Now it was couple lenses and multiple bodies and that's it.
Died.
13
 
Another interesting post on Mike Johnston’s TOP concerning the obsession with technical progress as opposed to photographic content.

This snippet sums it up nicely. It also gave an interesting pause for thought.

“I call the look "CAF"—clinical analytical forensic. It's when you see the crusty mascara on a model's eyelashes instead of a girl with thick eyelashes.”

I am having a moment of personal re-evaluation regarding my camera equipment, so this article was even more interesting to me.

It is also a nice antidote against the exasperating technicisms that often obsessively dog this forum.

Enjoy.
...who actually believes that more resolution, more DR, less noise, "feathered bokeh", etc., etc., etc., by themselves make for a better photo? Or is it more a matter that more resolution, more DR, less noise, better bokeh, etc., etc., etc., can make for a better photo and it is better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them?

The simple fact of the matter is that I've seen any number of uninteresting photos that wouldn't have been any better in my eyes no matter how technically perfect they were. But another simple fact is that I've seen a great number of photos that were less in my eyes due to technical failings as a result of limitation of the equipment.

This current challenge winner is a great example of the point I'm trying to make. It's a fantastic photo. But the lack of fine details in the plane really do detract from the photo for me -- it looks like noise filtering was used at the max setting and then the noise filtering was applied at max setting again. The noise in this current challenge winner also detracts from the photo for me. This is not to say either photo was ruined; rather, I would have liked them more had they "higher IQ". And yet, they're challenge winners either way, so one can rightfully argue that my opinion is an [extreme] minority opinion.

Of course, it's difficult for me to throw a stick and not have it land on a photo where all the IQ in the world wouldn't make it any better. The reason for this is twofold: either the photo is uninteresting so IQ doesn't even really matter or the IQ of the photo is past my "quality threshold" where even more IQ won't really improve it more in my eyes (the boundary of said threshold depending, of course, on the viewing size and viewing distance, among any number of other factors).

So, for sure, step one is to take a photo "interesting enough" to where "more IQ" would even matter. Step two is to realize that the equipment you own may already give you all the IQ you would ever need and that not all photos depend strongly on IQ.

But when a photo is "interesting enough" and it's "success" is a function of its IQ, then it's nice to have that IQ on tap, even if it's useful only for a small proportion of your photos. 'Cause, quite honestly, it really sucks when the one interesting photo you took that day depended on "high IQ" and it didn't have it.
Well...I'm going to say some things some people won't like...

First, this isn't really the best site for even broaching the subject of what makes for "good" photos in the broader sense that not only the average person, but a lot of people at the professional level use as criteria. This is a gear site, and the most outspoken people here are often fanboys of a particular line of gear (even if they don't realize it, as I admit to my own occasional fanboy-like reactions to some posts LOL). Which leads to the second unpopular opinion I'll offer, which is...

A lot of people here really don't dive deep enough into what makes a good, much less outstanding photo, beyond some rather standard aesthetics and concentration on technical aspects (because the technical aspects are a chief determinant of whether the gear used is "good").

The shortcoming a large group of photographers fall into is that they don't use the same criteria that the "pros" often use to determine not only if a photo is "good", but whether to produce an image at all.

First of all, at a professional level, a photo must be "salable" more than anything else. Good technique, the appropriate gear and aesthetics are all driven by that priority.

Such considerations are genre, subject matter, purpose of the photo and "the moment" are all tied into an image being salable.

Yet, being salable itself depends on the market and usage of the photo. Technical flaws that are forgiven in news or sports photography would be reason for rejection in fashion most commercial photography situations. Conversely, creative liberties that are part and parcel of commercial photography are strictly taboo in photojournalism, editorial or scientific photography.

The marketing people who imply "pro quality" images are easily obtained with the cameras they want you to buy know all this, but it doesn't make for good ad copy. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to think that ad copy is meant to educate people about what the best images should look like.

Ergo, we have people who will admire a dull, even stereotypical image because of it's technical quality, and criticize a remarkable image because of it's technical flaws, Matters get worse when people, whether due to lack of knowledge or intransigence, make it all an "either/or" argument, when it's much more complex.

Bottom line, as I see it as a working photography with 40+ years experience, is that most people don't even realize that their own ability to assess the quality of photos is far below the level they think it is.

Then we get here to DPR where the gear is as important, or even more important, then the images and matters can take a bizarre turn. People become defensive about what gear they use far more than they become concerned about whether they are using that gear to the utmost effect, or that their images may be lackluster when it comes to even the basics of aesthetics.

GB has a good point. In the world outside of DPR forums, people assess images based on a lot more than either aesthetics or "the moment" or technical merit. They way them altogether. Personally, I don't take the average person's assessment of my photos very seriously. I mean, I appreciate it when someone tells me my concert photos are "amazing", but I know they really aren't, at least not by the standards I operate within.

Every year in my work, I shoot between 50 and 100 shows and events, capturing as little as 200 images to as many as 5000 images a show. Each year, I can personally think of maybe a dozen images that I would submit in a portfolio to a magazine or agency in hopes of landing a job. Yet at the same time, I will sell many more images than that, because the artists aren't thinking of the same criteria I am, they just like the images and are impressed as much by my personal style as they are my technical level.

All of this business about what makes for a good photo is objectively irrelevant if income doesn't depend on the images. Even then, there is still a degree of personal subjectivity involved in salable images (for instance, one manager bought an image that was the technically weakest of a set because the he felt the noise levels and motion blur added to the "gritty nature" of the show. So did I, which is why I included it, when the conventional wisdom of "low noise, sharp image" would have led to deleting it, not featuring it in the final gallery.

As I see it, the best message for all of us is "lighten up" when it comes to gear choice and technical standards. It may be your personal choice to be uber-serious about the technical results of a given piece of gear, but that's your choice, and you don't have much mileage available attempting to impose that standard on others, unless you are paying them to produce photos for you.
 
But Gary, that's what he does best ... :-O
 
Photographers obsess about noise, sharpness and all the other requisites that go to make up a technically perfect photograph. We are used to looking at prints or a screen image and see we see all the defects.

So, when we look at the work of others we see all these defects.

I learned very quickly when I was doing theatrical photography with pushed film which gave me results that are abysmal by todays standards, that “non photographers” do not see or will accept less than perfect technical quality if the subject is interesting.

It is only we who take pictures, who will discard a picture because we believe its message rested on having a high image quality that was missing. The trick is to learn what our audience will accept, before calling it rubbish.

The bar of what is high image quality is very mobile. To get the very best at present, one must use that 150MP Phase One monster on a heavy tripod. All the rest from FF downwards is a compromise. Hand holding makes things worse.

The trick is to look at an image with the eyes of a “non photographer”.
Yep. (See my post below) When I shoot a show, I keep in mind they style of music and tone of the show. I previsualize how I want some images to appear at end use, including the idea that noise levels, motion blur, even out of focus areas and other flaws might make for a better image in the eyes of the artist and others. I want people viewing my images to feel the concert, not just see a nice photo of it.

Here's the image I mentioned in the other post. It's got a lot of technical flaws worthy of criticism. A lot of music togs would bin it for that reason. I featured it in the gallery because it captured a moment in a way that I felt conveyed the "feel" of the show. It's the only one the band's manager bought from that show, to feature it on the band's website and press kit for the months following that tour.

Looking at it know, I could find lots of little details (aside from noise level and some blurriness) to criticize. But I haven't re-edited it because I made money off of it, so why mess with a good thing. LOL



p731168316-5.jpg




--
Photography is not about the thing photographed. It is about how that thing looks photographed. Quote by Garry Winogrand
 
Photographers obsess about noise, sharpness and all the other requisites that go to make up a technically perfect photograph. We are used to looking at prints or a screen image and see we see all the defects.

So, when we look at the work of others we see all these defects.

I learned very quickly when I was doing theatrical photography with pushed film which gave me results that are abysmal by todays standards, that “non photographers” do not see or will accept less than perfect technical quality if the subject is interesting.

It is only we who take pictures, who will discard a picture because we believe its message rested on having a high image quality that was missing. The trick is to learn what our audience will accept, before calling it rubbish.

The bar of what is high image quality is very mobile. To get the very best at present, one must use that 150MP Phase One monster on a heavy tripod. All the rest from FF downwards is a compromise. Hand holding makes things worse.

The trick is to look at an image with the eyes of a “non photographer”.
Yep. (See my post below) When I shoot a show, I keep in mind they style of music and tone of the show. I previsualize how I want some images to appear at end use, including the idea that noise levels, motion blur, even out of focus areas and other flaws might make for a better image in the eyes of the artist and others. I want people viewing my images to feel the concert, not just see a nice photo of it.

Here's the image I mentioned in the other post. It's got a lot of technical flaws worthy of criticism. A lot of music togs would bin it for that reason. I featured it in the gallery because it captured a moment in a way that I felt conveyed the "feel" of the show. It's the only one the band's manager bought from that show, to feature it on the band's website and press kit for the months following that tour.
p731168316-5.jpg
Looking at it know, I could find lots of little details (aside from noise level and some blurriness) to criticize. But I haven't re-edited it because I made money off of it, so why mess with a good thing. LOL
LOL indeed. You have almost defined professional photographers as prostitutes to other people's opinions, as long as they fork out cash.

A completely sad definition. Fortunately, it may apply to you by your own admission above, but many other photographers including IMHO all the greats, pro and am, have entirely the opposite approach. And hence, photography still has a heartbeat.
 
I have an Ebook where the photographs were taken on an iPhone.

The emotive and compositional quality of the work takes you beyond looking at the technical quality.
I am really interested in some bird in flight picture with an phonon in the hands of some genius photographers, i bet a lot of people would be more than happy to ditch their 1Dx and big white lenses, myself included, yeah, gear sure doesn't matter. LOL.
 
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Of course the exact same can be said for why people are spending so much for a mft body and lenses when a digicam would do the trick just as well, especially since portability is such a high priority over image quaility.
Indeed. Other than the the point that image quality can be just as good with a digicam as with m4/3 or FF if you don’t need to go outside of the range they have in common - so picking the most suitable camera and sensor is far from just being ‘bigger is better’.
That's the ironic thing. I have much more often heard people claiming that someone else said that bigger is better than I've actually heard anyone actually say that bigger was better.

Case in point. Great Bustard has taken a bad rap forever for supposedly perpetuating just such a claim simply for explaining the reality of a certain set of easily substantiated facts, in spite of almost constantly acknowledging that mft is probably overkill for most photographers. Meanwhile, one of those who have been the most vocal and persistent in ridiculing GB's assertions in spite of all evidence to the contrary acknowledges that in some ways bigger is better, while all while continuing to deny that it has anything to do with anything equivalence related.

Go figure.

Robert
I think you are out of line here. Seems like the discussion was a simple back and forth with quite a bit of agreement and no significant claims of this or that. Then you felt you had to make a veiled personal attack unrelated to this thread.
Just one of my "top" followers trying to derail the conversation towards his pet obsession.


I am quite used to his antics. The game is to cause an argument and get this thread locked.
 
Of course the exact same can be said for why people are spending so much for a mft body and lenses when a digicam would do the trick just as well, especially since portability is such a high priority over image quaility.
Indeed. Other than the the point that image quality can be just as good with a digicam as with m4/3 or FF if you don’t need to go outside of the range they have in common - so picking the most suitable camera and sensor is far from just being ‘bigger is better’.
That's the ironic thing. I have much more often heard people claiming that someone else said that bigger is better than I've actually heard anyone actually say that bigger was better.

Case in point. Great Bustard has taken a bad rap forever for supposedly perpetuating just such a claim simply for explaining the reality of a certain set of easily substantiated facts, in spite of almost constantly acknowledging that mft is probably overkill for most photographers. Meanwhile, one of those who have been the most vocal and persistent in ridiculing GB's assertions in spite of all evidence to the contrary acknowledges that in some ways bigger is better, while all while continuing to deny that it has anything to do with anything equivalence related.

Go figure.

Robert
I think you are out of line here.
I respect your opinion but I don't share it.
Seems like the discussion was a simple back and forth with quite a bit of agreement and no significant claims of this or that.
Seems like, at least if that opening shot about needing "an antidote to the exasperating technicisms that often obsessively dog this forum" went completely unnoticed. Some people actually aren't exasperated by technological advances and their discussion. What exasperates many of them is having their enjoyment of such ruined by people who apparently feel the need to enter such threads just to let people who enjoy said threads know how how exasperating they are.

For the record, I really haven't met anyone who actually thinks that technological advancements in cameras are a substitute for developing one's photography skills. Most every one I know realizes that the two work hand in hand.
Then you felt you had to make a veiled personal attack unrelated to this thread.
What makes what I said an attack? Is it the truth of what I said or the irony? What makes it personal? Recounting what is openly said and done on a public forum hardly seems personal or an attack to me.

It seems like the boycott on technology gets suspended when the idea of upgrading from a mk1 to a mk2 em1 is the object of discussion. Hi-res image mode, 5 s stop image stabilization, pre-capture mode, 60 fps. None of that seems to qualify as exasperating technicisms that obsessively dog this forum. None of those features seem to compete with one's photographic abilities. On the contrary they seem to be the exceptions to the anti-GAS movement.

When "WE" are told m43 can't cut it, we don't need to justify anything to anyone. As a matter of fact, if "we" decide that we want to use our cameras to drive 10 penny nails into oak boards (@ 60fps) "we" paid for them and nobody can stop us from doing so.

By the same token, if "we" decide to turn off all of the highly unnecessary gadgetry that clutters our cameras and keeps us from studying important photographic concepts like light and composition, "we" can do that too.

Hopefully when and if that happens, "we" will have the foresight to seek support for our endeavors in an appropriately accommodating photography forum.

For the record, when I say "we", i don't mean me. I'm still "cutting it" with Four Thirds.

Robert
 
This all reminds me of my post from a few years ago. I saw an excellent Magnum photo exhibition.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56299501

Radical Transformation: Magnum Photos into the Digital Age

The photos were excellent and the presentation was good too. The prints were of various sizes by many Magnum photographers. I am sure lots of the people on the internet would have hated almost every single photo though because even many of the smaller prints (5x7, 6x9) were not eye cutting sharp when viewed at 3 centimeters. There would have been screaming and derision by the dogmatic extremists with their 10x loupes. Not sure about CA, distortion, and all the other things that so many people are obsessed with since I didn't even bother checking. They were wonderful viewed from a normal viewing distance. Very nice exhibition.

Probably about 90% of the photos in the exhibition were B&W. Some of the photos are famous iconic photos from Capa, Cartier-Bresson, et al that you have seen before.

Later I was walking around with my camera and I sort of wondered if all the photos in the exhibition had been taken with digital cameras if some of them, maybe a bunch of them, would have been deleted in the camera? I imagine these photographers are smart enough to not be over concerned (concerned, of course, but not over concerned) with all the technical details and let those things override what the image looks like and whether it is interesting. Fortunately, the photos had not been deleted.

Most of the photos in the exhibition could have easily been taken with my Canon G16 and the technical quality in many cases would have been even better. Just being able to quickly change ISO or use Auto ISO is a huge advantage. Good ISO from 80 on up to, oh I don't know, 3200. Even 12,800 is usable and quite good compared to just slightly fast film from a long time ago. Especially if shooting in raw. A long time ago ISO 400 film was fast.
The tools we have at our disposition to day make life so much easier. So easy in fact that I wonder how I ever took pictures like this below.


I used a manual focus lens and the exposure was guessed based on my experience of theatre lighting as my light meter would have given a wrong reading.


The Magnum photographers of the 50’s up to the 70’s an even the 80’s had even more primitive gear and film.


Digital has removed the need for a whole lot of skills needed to work at a high level.



Joe Henderson
Joe Henderson



--
 
II often found that with theatrical photography, little flaws added authenticity to a picture.


There is nothing worse or falser than a posed ballet photo. The slight movement of a foot or hand makes a dance picture come alive.


Your shot sold because it has soul.
 
Photographers obsess about noise, sharpness and all the other requisites that go to make up a technically perfect photograph. We are used to looking at prints or a screen image and see we see all the defects.

So, when we look at the work of others we see all these defects.

I learned very quickly when I was doing theatrical photography with pushed film which gave me results that are abysmal by todays standards, that “non photographers” do not see or will accept less than perfect technical quality if the subject is interesting.

It is only we who take pictures, who will discard a picture because we believe its message rested on having a high image quality that was missing. The trick is to learn what our audience will accept, before calling it rubbish.

The bar of what is high image quality is very mobile. To get the very best at present, one must use that 150MP Phase One monster on a heavy tripod. All the rest from FF downwards is a compromise. Hand holding makes things worse.

The trick is to look at an image with the eyes of a “non photographer”.
Yep. (See my post below) When I shoot a show, I keep in mind they style of music and tone of the show. I previsualize how I want some images to appear at end use, including the idea that noise levels, motion blur, even out of focus areas and other flaws might make for a better image in the eyes of the artist and others. I want people viewing my images to feel the concert, not just see a nice photo of it.

Here's the image I mentioned in the other post. It's got a lot of technical flaws worthy of criticism. A lot of music togs would bin it for that reason. I featured it in the gallery because it captured a moment in a way that I felt conveyed the "feel" of the show. It's the only one the band's manager bought from that show, to feature it on the band's website and press kit for the months following that tour.

p731168316-5.jpg


Looking at it know, I could find lots of little details (aside from noise level and some blurriness) to criticize. But I haven't re-edited it because I made money off of it, so why mess with a good thing. LOL
LOL indeed. You have almost defined professional photographers as prostitutes to other people's opinions, as long as they fork out cash.

A completely sad definition. Fortunately, it may apply to you by your own admission above, but many other photographers including IMHO all the greats, pro and am, have entirely the opposite approach. And hence, photography still has a heartbeat.
Wow. I don't know whether you are jusy negative or clueless,, but in either case you don't seem to grasp what motivates pros to create images. When we think "salable" it means we have a specific goal in mind beyond "Oh look at this nice OOC image I hope imptesses people". We want to create images that reach out and grab attention, and be willing to pay for them. That is, after all, the reason for being pro.

If you think doing so is some sort of prostitution...well...maybe a dictionary can help? ;-)

--
Photography is not about the thing photographed. It is about how that thing looks photographed. Quote by Garry Winogrand
 
You have a different understanding of 'understanding' to me, then. I think it is possible both to be talented without understanding, and to understand without being talented. I think this is quite evident in many fields, where wonderful practitioners prove to be quite incapable of passing on their skills to others, and also where quite moderate practitioners turn out to be extremely good coaches.
Most famous photographers don't know details of the technology in photography, many doesn't even know all their gear capabilities and possibilities.

They have gathered their experience other means, they have a vision of the work that they want to do and they don't care about anything else.

There are many critically claimed photographers who has no idea about exposure or denoising etc. They just work with the cameras they have.

Some doesn't even know does their cameras have a pop-up flash, or how to get it open.
They don't know all the lenses there are, they just know they want wider or narrower view.
They work with basic rules of thumbs as what shutter speed for action or when flash is in use.

And they don't need to, when they get what they want and like, they are happy.
I'm afraid I don't understand your point. Are you saying that ignorance of how things work is a plus? That understanding the technical interferes with the artistic?
It is said that insecurity is hidden behind the scientific explanations.
Who said that besides you? Can you give an example of insecurity that is hidden behing a scientific explanation?
My personal experience (which at this moment in history is shared by a lot of other people, too) is that insecurity is mostly hidden behind willful ignorance and/or lies. Oh, and BS.
No, it is usually hidden behind bluster, intimidation, and condescending phrases like “wilful ignorance” tossed towards those who try to think outside of the “given truths”.
Don't you mean phrases like pseudo science? How about confusion merchants, as found in the thread that starts here ? Or maybe the name you called me that got deleted not even a week ago. "I have just looked at your Getty images, It's just a pity that you do not have any photographic talent." Can you tell me who said that and to whom?

There is nothing more telling than when a person objects to the very behavior they themselves are most guilty of. And for the record, willful ignorance is not a condescending term at all. It simply means that one has purposely chosen to ignore certain facts. When one not only does so but insists on denigrating those who don't choose to ignore such facts with condescending phrases like ignorance merchants, yet when asked, cannot offer any plausible rebuttal but refuses to cease and desist attacking the subject, it might even be said that one might be guilty of the exasperating behavior that obsessively dogs this forum.
This forum is full of good examples, some of which you have made a contribution to in the past.
How many contributions have you made?

Robert
 
Man, I love the way you follow me on this forum memorising and cataloguing my every contribution to this forum.


I love the way you pull out my past pearls of wisdom at a click of a mouse.


Why not start a Thread with my best quotes to liven up the forum a bit. My rare nuggets of wisdom are far more interesting and erudite than stuff that crops up in your other major interest, which is not photography, but a strange obsession that concerns comparing camera formats.


Weird man, just flaky.
 
And can you inform me who was permanently banned for making disgusting and obscene comments about my mother ... ?
 
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