Canon is still the Best Camera System Company

Occams Razor

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In the last few years whenever Canon releases a new body, all of the pundits come out and talk about how antiquated the specifications and features are but in the same breath state that it will sell like hotcakes. This has always struck me as an odd perspective because do people not consider that Canon is a professional marketing company that may have a finger on their market’s pulse and their product releases addresses the sweep spot of the requirements of their target market. I admit there is some brand recognition and loyalty and lens investment involved but if Canon is truly releasing product after product that is not supporting the requirements of the customer, they would experience rapidly declining market share and have lost their dominant market position by now.

While there seems to be some outliers that defy common logic (at least to me) such as the lack of IBIS, it really is premature to judge Canon’s strategy and capabilities until additional bodies are released. I believe their approach is to only include those functions/features that are valued by the majority of their target market ala Toyota Production Systems which focus on minimizing waste across the value stream. After all Canon is a publicly traded company with a duty to maximize shareholder value so they need to keep an eye on profit margins and ultimately operating profit. One of the reasons Canon fabricates their own sensors is because of the cost benefits which will allow them to be more competitive in the long term. A couple of years ago I looked at the operating profit of Canon’s Imaging Division as a percent of sales and they easily outperformed that of Sony and almost doubled the Nikon numbers IIRC. Sony and to a certain extent Nikon must have an aggressive strategy because are chasing the market leader in a shrinking market. Everyone talks about how innovative Sony is but the reality is that they are in survival mode so they must throw as much performance and features as possible to try to grow their customer base but it is at the expense of profitability. Sony has the luxury of subsidizing their camera body and lens investments with external sensor sales so they have some runway to sustain this approach.

There’s a reason why Canon is the market leader and many people fail to understand that the company with the camera system that meets the majority of the market needs will come out on top. I believe there is a large number of forum members that are not representative of the main ILC market but a niche segment that focuses on hardware performance and features and many of these members need to have the body with the best numbers for bragging rights. I can’t help but laugh when I see a post describing how superior their 10 FPS body is and then they show a badly exposed image of a dog sleeping in their house. Ultimately, each brand has their own specific set of strengths and weaknesses and you should choose the one that satisfies most of your personal shooting requirements.
 
I agree. Most of the people critical of Canon only judge on spec sheets and not on real world usage or experience.

First you have the usual reviewer community. The nature of their work is to go from camera to camera, spending a very short amount of time with each one, and then somehow pronounce sweeping long term judgements. Many do not have the time to adequately learn the camera. Most never judge based on factors that are important to real consumers, like usability, reliability, service, support, etc.

By all accounts of those who've had some hands on time with this new R, the ergonomics and handling and user experience is simply superb; probably best in class at this point. The new lens mount allows for greater flexibility and performance in the future. The lenses announced represent some really nice options and hint at future potential.

I guarantee you that if people try out this EOS R at a camera shop, along with a Sony, they will be far more impressed with the Canon and probably leave the store with that one.

Those who buy this new EOS R will be very happy with it.
 
no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
 
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no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
Bam...the hammer comes down! Now that's a perspective you won't get from the Northrups, Fro, etc. and it exposes just how off they are in their judgements.
 
no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
Bam...the hammer comes down! Now that's a perspective you won't get from the Northrups, Fro, etc. and it exposes just how off they are in their judgements.
they make money from affiliate links. It pays to push Sony with its constant new camera body pipeline. Make no mistake for their pro work they stick to Canon. There is no such thing as loyal Sony customer but I am grateful that they’ve been helping to push Canikon into FF mirrorless, otherwise we’d have to shoot with dslr till the end of days
 
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no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
Bam...the hammer comes down! Now that's a perspective you won't get from the Northrups, Fro, etc. and it exposes just how off they are in their judgements.
they make money from affiliate links. It pays to push Sony with its constant new camera body pipeline. Make no mistake for their pro work they stick to Canon. There is no such thing as loyal Sony customer but I am grateful that they’ve been helping to push Canikon into FF mirrorless, otherwise we’d have to shoot with dslr till the end of days
Yes, you are right; Sony users have no particular attachment or joy using Sony cameras.

To add to what you say, Steve Huff is another reviewer/blogger who has heavily promoted Sony these last few years. Yet when he needed a camera for his serious video work, which one did he choose: the Canon 1DX mark ii. He admitted that his Sony overheated on him and that he didn't like the colors. So he did something very contrary to what he's been preaching all of these years and bought a big old fashioned Canon dslr...in fact their biggest. He loves it and has no regrets.
 
Canon, rather than trying to copy other mirror less systems, came into the market with some features that no one else had.

Canon ergonomics to begin with. Detractors say ergonomics is strictly a matter of opinion. They say they are fine with Sony ergonomics. Nobody says that Sonly ergonomics are better. There are certain consistencies in the human hand that can be studied and accommodated. that's why ergonomics is actually a field of engineering. Those who have a preference, prefer Canon menus. Canon added a programable control ring on the lens and a programable touch bar for additional manual control. Those who care will prefer the ergonomics of the R.

Canon made an adapter with a programable control ring and a filter slot, the only adapter that offers users anything at all to compensate for the aggravation of using and adapter.

Canon came into the market with class leading AF that uses the widest aperture of fast lenses to focus. That's new and brilliant.

In classic Canon fashion, the R system has two insane lenses that actually take advantage of the theoretical advantage of the shorter flange distance for lens design. Everybody talks about it. Nobody else has delivered it.

Those lenses add to the massive Canon ecosystem of lenses and accessories which will all be compatible with the R. The Canon flash system is a big feature that often gets ignored.

Nobody touches the R on any of the above. Of course Canon is missing a ton of features offered by its opponents.

IBIS seems like an important one to me.

Why does any mirror less camera not shoot 20 FPS?

Nikon has a shorter flange distance and a bigger opening, both of which should make it possible for Nikon to make better lenses per the laws of physics. All they came out with on launch were ho hum lenses, though.

There are loads of special shooting modes in the Sony cameras that could be added with only software. Who knows why all of them are not in all Canon cameras. Obviously they think there would be some kind of a trade off. It doesn't seem like the additional software would cost much.

So the R has advantages and disadvantages. Is it better, worse, or just different?
 
no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
Bam...the hammer comes down! Now that's a perspective you won't get from the Northrups, Fro, etc. and it exposes just how off they are in their judgements.
they make money from affiliate links. It pays to push Sony with its constant new camera body pipeline. Make no mistake for their pro work they stick to Canon. There is no such thing as loyal Sony customer but I am grateful that they’ve been helping to push Canikon into FF mirrorless, otherwise we’d have to shoot with dslr till the end of days
Yes, you are right; Sony users have no particular attachment or joy using Sony cameras.

To add to what you say, Steve Huff is another reviewer/blogger who has heavily promoted Sony these last few years. Yet when he needed a camera for his serious video work, which one did he choose: the Canon 1DX mark ii. He admitted that his Sony overheated on him and that he didn't like the colors. So he did something very contrary to what he's been preaching all of these years and bought a big old fashioned Canon dslr...in fact their biggest. He loves it and has no regrets.
Northrup himself recently said that they are now using 6dii as a vloggging camera, he even said it’s the best vlogging camera on the market. Remember, when it first came out he completely trashed it to junk status, useless. He now says EOS R will likely become their vlogging camera.
 
no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
Your argument makes little sense. The forums may """boycott""" Canon (I wouldn't be certain, the amount of Canon apologists here is pretty stunning) but these forums are what, 1% of actual buyers worldwide? If even that much. Such a camera would sell like any other simply because it was Canon. The same way Apple keeps selling horridly engineered stuff and gets sued every other day by class action lawsuits and yet people be sheep and keep buying things that will break down. You know why? Because of the brand. If Lenovo, Asus, Motorola, LG, anyone else pulled the crap that Apple has, they would have been blasted and people wouldn't buy their products as much.

Not saying Canon is like Apple, as the former actually knows how to engineer stuff but the brand attachment is much the same, albeit at a significantly reduced size. Which is also why I have no doubts the R will sell more than Nikon and Sony combined, not because it's a better product (it isn't in almost every respect on the spec sheet) but because it's a Canon product.
 
no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
Your argument makes little sense. The forums may """boycott""" Canon (I wouldn't be certain, the amount of Canon apologists here is pretty stunning) but these forums are what, 1% of actual buyers worldwide? If even that much. Such a camera would sell like any other simply because it was Canon. The same way Apple keeps selling horridly engineered stuff and gets sued every other day by class action lawsuits and yet people be sheep and keep buying things that will break down. You know why? Because of the brand. If Lenovo, Asus, Motorola, LG, anyone else pulled the crap that Apple has, they would have been blasted and people wouldn't buy their products as much.

Not saying Canon is like Apple, as the former actually knows how to engineer stuff but the brand attachment is much the same, albeit at a significantly reduced size. Which is also why I have no doubts the R will sell more than Nikon and Sony combined, not because it's a better product (it isn't in almost every respect on the spec sheet) but because it's a Canon product.
Nice of you to insult all Canon customers worldwide and imply that they are all ignorant.
 
Good thoughts, all. If I could throw in, here.

The history and pedigree of the companies has significant impact on their products. Canon's other business and history is office products. They're not exciting. Nobody buying a copier is looking for something that prints 300 pages per minute for two minutes before overheating, or that confuses the ever-loving snot out of a new user. They're not looking at getting good youtube reviews from guys wearing backwards ball caps while underexposing their video reviews of equipment they don't fully understand, or making finger guns at the camera, and hawking T shirts as a sideline. When they implement something, it works, and it lasts.

Sony is a good company, but their history began scrambling to make any kind of living in a devastated Japan after WWII. They develop and push to market, although with missteps, sometimes. They pioneered many things, Walkmans, video recorders, and some awesome camcorders. In understanding Sony, you have to get that their pedigree in this is that their cameras have evolved from camcorders, not SLRs. That can be jarring for first time users, but it doesn't mean they're wrong. They have a different approach.

Nikon is an optics company. Cameras, scopes and binoculars. Just awesome optics.

Sony pushing the A series was essential to improving cameras, because Nikon and Canon had developed into a cartel, and were backing off on innovation.

I would love to shoot with any of the systems, but you've gotta pick one horse, and I picked Canon, and have no regrets.
 
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I would love to shoot with any of the systems, but you've gotta pick one horse, and I picked Canon, and have no regrets.
Not true. Over the last 2 decades, I've shot with Oly, Pany, Sony, Nikon, and Canon. You don't have to pick one horse or stick to it forever, though it can be cost-prohibitive to switch or add new systems.

For me, I don't care what the "best" camera system company is. I'm interested in best bang for the buck that fits my needs.

That said, I would never recommend anybody get anything other than Canon, Nikon, or Sony ILCs from here on out, because of the contraction of the standalone camera market leaves non Canikony cameras less and less profitable (lower economies of scale) and thus more and more vulnerable to discontinuation.

The slow-moving industry shakeout has already claimed the lives of Nikon CX and Samsung NX (and likely Pentax Q). Kodak, Konica, and Minolta are examples earlier casualties.

But Canon, Nikon, and Sony are all "safe" choices. Regarding claims that Sony is merely some sort of camcorder company with no photography pedigree: Sony bought KonicaMinolta. And Minolta was definitely a legit camera company, so in fact Sony's camera division does have a longstanding camera pedigree.

Ditto Fuji which also has a long camera pedigree, except Fuji is apparently a wannabe-Leica. X-mount will survive, but they will have very little room to breathe in the near future as Fuji APS-C prices collide with full frame prices by other manufacturers *cough* Canikony *cough*.
 
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no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
Bam...the hammer comes down! Now that's a perspective you won't get from the Northrups, Fro, etc. and it exposes just how off they are in their judgements.
they make money from affiliate links. It pays to push Sony with its constant new camera body pipeline. Make no mistake for their pro work they stick to Canon. There is no such thing as loyal Sony customer but I am grateful that they’ve been helping to push Canikon into FF mirrorless, otherwise we’d have to shoot with dslr till the end of days
Yes, you are right; Sony users have no particular attachment or joy using Sony cameras.

To add to what you say, Steve Huff is another reviewer/blogger who has heavily promoted Sony these last few years. Yet when he needed a camera for his serious video work, which one did he choose: the Canon 1DX mark ii. He admitted that his Sony overheated on him and that he didn't like the colors. So he did something very contrary to what he's been preaching all of these years and bought a big old fashioned Canon dslr...in fact their biggest. He loves it and has no regrets.
Northrup himself recently said that they are now using 6dii as a vloggging camera, he even said it’s the best vlogging camera on the market. Remember, when it first came out he completely trashed it to junk status, useless. He now says EOS R will likely become their vlogging camera.
They also use the D850 and A7III for photos. They claim their biggest joy to use camera experience is the XT-2, and just said the EOS R is the best feeling in the hands...

They're just like the rest of us in that No single camera company or model gives them all the features they would like in one body.

However, we can't all look at a shelf and decide what body or system will fit the role for that day...
 
People are allowed to change their opinions. It takes some bravery for the northrups and Rockwell's of the world to put their opinions out there and put their names behind it. Even if you don't agree with it.
 
In the last few years whenever Canon releases a new body, all of the pundits come out and talk about how antiquated the specifications and features are but in the same breath state that it will sell like hotcakes. This has always struck me as an odd perspective because do people not consider that Canon is a professional marketing company that may have a finger on their market’s pulse and their product releases addresses the sweep spot of the requirements of their target market. I admit there is some brand recognition and loyalty and lens investment involved but if Canon is truly releasing product after product that is not supporting the requirements of the customer, they would experience rapidly declining market share and have lost their dominant market position by now.

While there seems to be some outliers that defy common logic (at least to me) such as the lack of IBIS, it really is premature to judge Canon’s strategy and capabilities until additional bodies are released. I believe their approach is to only include those functions/features that are valued by the majority of their target market ala Toyota Production Systems which focus on minimizing waste across the value stream. After all Canon is a publicly traded company with a duty to maximize shareholder value so they need to keep an eye on profit margins and ultimately operating profit. One of the reasons Canon fabricates their own sensors is because of the cost benefits which will allow them to be more competitive in the long term. A couple of years ago I looked at the operating profit of Canon’s Imaging Division as a percent of sales and they easily outperformed that of Sony and almost doubled the Nikon numbers IIRC. Sony and to a certain extent Nikon must have an aggressive strategy because are chasing the market leader in a shrinking market. Everyone talks about how innovative Sony is but the reality is that they are in survival mode so they must throw as much performance and features as possible to try to grow their customer base but it is at the expense of profitability. Sony has the luxury of subsidizing their camera body and lens investments with external sensor sales so they have some runway to sustain this approach.

There’s a reason why Canon is the market leader and many people fail to understand that the company with the camera system that meets the majority of the market needs will come out on top. I believe there is a large number of forum members that are not representative of the main ILC market but a niche segment that focuses on hardware performance and features and many of these members need to have the body with the best numbers for bragging rights. I can’t help but laugh when I see a post describing how superior their 10 FPS body is and then they show a badly exposed image of a dog sleeping in their house. Ultimately, each brand has their own specific set of strengths and weaknesses and you should choose the one that satisfies most of your personal shooting requirements.
Nikon for DSLRs and Sont for mirrorless, bruh.
 
I would love to shoot with any of the systems, but you've gotta pick one horse, and I picked Canon, and have no regrets.
Not true. Over the last 2 decades, I've shot with Oly, Pany, Sony, Nikon, and Canon. You don't have to pick one horse or stick to it forever, though it can be cost-prohibitive to switch or add new systems.

For me, I don't care what the "best" camera system company is. I'm interested in best bang for the buck that fits my needs.

That said, I would never recommend anybody get anything other than Canon, Nikon, or Sony ILCs from here on out, because of the contraction of the standalone camera market leaves non Canikony cameras less and less profitable (lower economies of scale) and thus more and more vulnerable to discontinuation.

The slow-moving industry shakeout has already claimed the lives of Nikon CX and Samsung NX (and likely Pentax Q). Kodak, Konica, and Minolta are examples earlier casualties.

But Canon, Nikon, and Sony are all "safe" choices. Regarding claims that Sony is merely some sort of camcorder company with no photography pedigree: Sony bought KonicaMinolta. And Minolta was definitely a legit camera company, so in fact Sony's camera division does have a longstanding camera pedigree.

Ditto Fuji which also has a long camera pedigree, except Fuji is apparently a wannabe-Leica. X-mount will survive, but they will have very little room to breathe in the near future as Fuji APS-C prices collide with full frame prices by other manufacturers *cough* Canikony *cough*.
I tell my photography students that changing systems is like getting divorced and getting a different spouse. You can do it, but it's going to cost you. My students are mostly beginners, and it's probably 65% Canon, 33% Nikon, 2% everything else combined.
 
For all of the reasons you gave in your post, I think the R could turn out to be a very fun camera to use.
 
no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
Bam...the hammer comes down! Now that's a perspective you won't get from the Northrups, Fro, etc. and it exposes just how off they are in their judgements.
they make money from affiliate links. It pays to push Sony with its constant new camera body pipeline. Make no mistake for their pro work they stick to Canon. There is no such thing as loyal Sony customer but I am grateful that they’ve been helping to push Canikon into FF mirrorless, otherwise we’d have to shoot with dslr till the end of days
Both Fro (D5) and Chelsea Northup (D850 ) use Nikon for their pro work. Tony uses A7R3 as well.
 
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no one argues with that. Markets don’t lie. It is by far the most popular and most sold camera brand in the world. We always tend to be more critical of the strongest and more lenient towards newcomers. Imagine if Canon would release a tiny mount FF mirroless with overheating issues, firmware problems and supbar touchscreen with convoluted menu and start manufacturing L lenses in Thailand sold for the same price. It would be immidiately trashed if not boycotted without second chance.
Your argument makes little sense. The forums may """boycott""" Canon (I wouldn't be certain, the amount of Canon apologists here is pretty stunning) but these forums are what, 1% of actual buyers worldwide? If even that much. Such a camera would sell like any other simply because it was Canon. The same way Apple keeps selling horridly engineered stuff and gets sued every other day by class action lawsuits and yet people be sheep and keep buying things that will break down. You know why? Because of the brand. If Lenovo, Asus, Motorola, LG, anyone else pulled the crap that Apple has, they would have been blasted and people wouldn't buy their products as much.

Not saying Canon is like Apple, as the former actually knows how to engineer stuff but the brand attachment is much the same, albeit at a significantly reduced size. Which is also why I have no doubts the R will sell more than Nikon and Sony combined, not because it's a better product (it isn't in almost every respect on the spec sheet) but because it's a Canon product.
Canon can even sell bricks labelled as Canon and people will buy in droves. Thanks to great marketing of Canon, for most new comers Camera = Canon & Canon=Camera.
 
Canon, rather than trying to copy other mirror less systems, came into the market with some features that no one else had.

Canon ergonomics to begin with. Detractors say ergonomics is strictly a matter of opinion. They say they are fine with Sony ergonomics. Nobody says that Sonly ergonomics are better. There are certain consistencies in the human hand that can be studied and accommodated. that's why ergonomics is actually a field of engineering. Those who have a preference, prefer Canon menus. Canon added a programable control ring on the lens and a programable touch bar for additional manual control. Those who care will prefer the ergonomics of the R.

Canon made an adapter with a programable control ring and a filter slot, the only adapter that offers users anything at all to compensate for the aggravation of using and adapter.

Canon came into the market with class leading AF that uses the widest aperture of fast lenses to focus. That's new and brilliant.

In classic Canon fashion, the R system has two insane lenses that actually take advantage of the theoretical advantage of the shorter flange distance for lens design. Everybody talks about it. Nobody else has delivered it.

Those lenses add to the massive Canon ecosystem of lenses and accessories which will all be compatible with the R. The Canon flash system is a big feature that often gets ignored.

Nobody touches the R on any of the above. Of course Canon is missing a ton of features offered by its opponents.

IBIS seems like an important one to me.

Why does any mirror less camera not shoot 20 FPS?

Nikon has a shorter flange distance and a bigger opening, both of which should make it possible for Nikon to make better lenses per the laws of physics. All they came out with on launch were ho hum lenses, though.
Nikon launch lenses make a lot of sense, They are ligh-weight to complement the system and sharpness is through the roof.

Check this review at Nikon Rumors.

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/07/nikon-z7-field-report-by-marsel-van-oosten.aspx/

Canon lenses are heavy and expensive.
There are loads of special shooting modes in the Sony cameras that could be added with only software. Who knows why all of them are not in all Canon cameras. Obviously they think there would be some kind of a trade off. It doesn't seem like the additional software would cost much.

So the R has advantages and disadvantages. Is it better, worse, or just different?
 
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