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In camera USB charging !

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Fishchris said:
zackiedawg said:
Fishchris said:
So I keep looking for advantages of a mirrorless camera over a DSLR, and in a side by side comparison of the Z7 to the D850, I was able to find one thing on the entire list that made me pause... USB charging. But I dunno.... the Z7 is listed at a whopping $100 more than the D850... Hmmm. Is it worth it ? Probably, but....
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USB charging can be a nice convenience, though in a best-case scenario, manufacturers should provide an external battery charger with the camera PLUS USB charging ability in-camera, and also allow the camera to be powered on and shot while plugged into a USB and charging.
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Totally agreed. USB would be nice, but it still should have a separate charger.
Chris Wolfgram said:
Chris Wolfgram said:
On a more serious note, I have read in multiple places that the battery life of 300 shots for the Z7 is a misprint... yet it still persists, on the spec list for the Z7 here on DPR ? I've heard its more like 800-1000... which is actually not terrible.
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It's not a misprint...it's more just a misunderstanding of a 'CIPA' battery rating, and the actual battery life one can expect in real-world use which will be heavily dependent on how and what you shoot. CIPA uses a standardized testing procedure that involves taking shots in intervals, with and without flash, zooming, and powering down and up...here's the description:

The Camera and Imaging Products Association (CIPA) developed this standardized battery-life test for digital cameras. The test procedure calls for using the camera to take a photo every 30 seconds, alternating with and without flash between each shot. The camera's screen is to be left on continuously between shots and used as the viewfinder device. The lens should be zoomed in or out all the way before every shot. After every 10 shots, the camera is turned off for a while and the cycle is repeated.

With mirrorless cameras, battery life is based mostly on power-up time...the battery can support, say, 2 hours of on time, or 3 hours of on time, etc. depending on the camera & battery. How often you let the camera screens sleep, power the camera down, etc can extend that 2 hours of power time over the course of a day, or if on continuously, can run exactly 2 hours. Within that on time, you can take as many frames as you want. So you might be casually walking around taking scenic shots, and get 200 frames on one battery...or you can be at a sports event or wildlife shooting, rattling off 5-10 frames per second, and see 1,500 shots on one battery.

The CIPA number can be used as a loosely based way to compare different cameras' battery life, but not a hard number of how many shots a battery will actually give you. For example, the Z7 rated at 300, compares to the Sony A7III rated at 710, means the A7III will have roughly double the battery length...but someone with the Z7 might get 1,200 frames off one battery if shooting lots of burst, and someone with the A7III might get 2,500 frames from one battery...both significantly more than their CIPA number. Many DSLRs have CIPA ratings over 1,000 - but can rattle off over 3,000 frames on one battery.
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Excellent explanation. This makes all the sense in the world. For myself, I might only stop and start shooting a scene 10 or 20 times in a trip, yet I might take 1000 shots, with everything being bracketed sets, trying different settings, and sometimes even stitching for panos and such, they add up quick.

Oh but does anyone know if they are making double battery, or larger battery grips for mirrorless cameras yet ? ..... Because a little more size and weight is zero problem for me... Maybe another reason I keep struggling to find a good reason for mirrorless in the first place ?
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Have not studied in depth on how Z7 takes USB power.

But might I share my understanding on the USB power. Generally if we can make use of the USB standard, it can replace a lot of older generation of accessories like power grip etc.

e.g. my existing mirrorless can do in-camera USB charging. But a major drawback is that the camera must be switched off for the charging work. As a result I have to carry spare batteries to keep me shooting for a whole day.

However to get around the short battery life problem of mirrorless, I can use a coupler (dummy battery), a step up voltage box (from 5V USB power to 9V DC) and draw power from an usual 5V 2A output USB external power bank. Best of all, lately backpacks/ camera bags are starting to have built-in USB port. We can carry a power bank inside the bag, plug an USB cable to connect the voltage step up case (can be exempted if a specialized 9V USB power bank be used) and the coupler through the battery chamber hole making it very convenience to use.

Some more recent models can accept power through USB source directly. When the camera is shooting, the USB power supports the camera to shoot. On power off, it switches to in-camera battery charging mode. These models can save the hassle to buy a coupler and voltage step up box.

I know Nikon has couplers for some of its models. No reason it will not have one for Z7.

The 5V 2A output external USB power bank is well developed in the market. The 10,000 ~20,000 mAh USB power bank be small enough to carry, cheap and easily available everywhere. Making use of theses USB products well can serve the energy hungry mirrorless.
Chris Wolfgram said:
Chris Wolfgram said:
Chris Wolfgram said:
And one other very interesting thing; In the section for bracketing, the Z7 is completely blank ? Is that just an over sight ? Or can the Z7 actually not take bracketed sets ? That would make it completely worthless to many, especially me.

Anyway, With all the talk of mirrorless nowadays, I am interested in the new tech, even though so far, I have zero interest in actually buying, or using one.
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Of all the features on the R, that's the least interesting to me. I've never had a camera body w/o at least 1 extra battery. And given the R's CIPA battery rating, if I get one eventually I'll likely pick up at least 2 extra batteries. Last thing I want to do is not have the camera available b/c it's a battery charger. The charger takes up an insignificant amount of space & weight, even when I'm traveling.

Mark
 
Mark B. said:
Of all the features on the R, that's the least interesting to me. I've never had a camera body w/o at least 1 extra battery. And given the R's CIPA battery rating, if I get one eventually I'll likely pick up at least 2 extra batteries. Last thing I want to do is not have the camera available b/c it's a battery charger. The charger takes up an insignificant amount of space & weight, even when I'm traveling.

Mark
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Okay. I just figure I plug my camera in with a USB cord every time I'm done using it to upload my photos anyway. How convenient to then just switch the cord or change a setting, or flip a switch, or whatever, and go on and charge it back up too.

Of course absolutely I'd always have backup batteries, at least 2, maybe 4 or 6 of them, using them two at a time in a battery grip.
 
1. Z uses EN-EL15, same as D850

2. Z can charge the battery via USB.

3. The EL15 is 7.2v Li battery, so the body has to step up the 5v of the USB to 8.4 or higher so itbcan charge the 7.2v Li.

4. To stepup the voltage, one have to pay the price, both the charging efficacy and the consumed current.

5. From #4, one needs approxiamtely full 2.0 A incoming current to charge the battery at about 1.2 A.

6. From SmartPhone, it's observed that the high current USB connection will become unreliable at after 500 plugin-detach cycle.
 
khunpapa said:
1. Z uses EN-EL15, same as D850

2. Z can charge the battery via USB.

3. The EL15 is 7.2v Li battery, so the body has to step up the 5v of the USB to 8.4 or higher so itbcan charge the 7.2v Li.

4. To stepup the voltage, one have to pay the price, both the charging efficacy and the consumed current.

5. From #4, one needs approxiamtely full 2.0 A incoming current to charge the battery at about 1.2 A.

6. From SmartPhone, it's observed that the high current USB connection will become unreliable at after 500 plugin-detach cycle.
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Some smartphones use mini-USB or micro-USB connectors at the phone and these connectors are terrible for connect-detach cycling. I have had to trash several devices (Bluetooth speakers, LED desk lamps) that charge batteries using these type connectors because of connector failure.

I think that is one reason that Apple developed the Lighting connector which appears much more robust - more like a switchboard plug that is actually made for many connecting cycles.

My advice: if your camera use a mini-USB or micro-USB connector to charge the battery inside the camera - don't. Buy a battery charger and charge your batteries outside the camera. That's what I do.
 
USB charging is a NICE feature to have. But there are some reality bites moments:

1. USB charging is often very SLOW..... So slow that you end up buying 3rd party charger because Time = Money

2. Newer camera allow USB-Charging while shooting, but many DON'T. Meaning you have to shut down the camera while charging it via USB. I know, sounds crazy right, it entirely defeat the purpose of USB-charging.

Just becareful with your expectation. Reality is often cruel.
 
I have three smaller cameras with USB charging.

The Sony camcorder uses USB1 to charge the battery. I think the charging time is 2x that of the power supply.

An action cam with tiny batteries.

A Yi 4/3 . Also with fairly small batteries.

I've bought external battery chargers for all of them. The action cam is the only one I find USB charging really useful. I can attach an USB powerbank to the camera and put both into the backpack and charge the thing while I walk.

But in general if you're using the camera heavily just changing the battery is far easier. The big advantage of USB charging is chargers and cables are in every shop around the world.
 
mamallama said:
khunpapa said:
1. Z uses EN-EL15, same as D850

2. Z can charge the battery via USB.

3. The EL15 is 7.2v Li battery, so the body has to step up the 5v of the USB to 8.4 or higher so itbcan charge the 7.2v Li.

4. To stepup the voltage, one have to pay the price, both the charging efficacy and the consumed current.

5. From #4, one needs approxiamtely full 2.0 A incoming current to charge the battery at about 1.2 A.

6. From SmartPhone, it's observed that the high current USB connection will become unreliable at after 500 plugin-detach cycle.
Click to expand...
Some smartphones use mini-USB or micro-USB connectors at the phone and these connectors are terrible for connect-detach cycling. I have had to trash several devices (Bluetooth speakers, LED desk lamps) that charge batteries using these type connectors because of connector failure.

I think that is one reason that Apple developed the Lighting connector which appears much more robust - more like a switchboard plug that is actually made for many connecting cycles.

My advice: if your camera use a mini-USB or micro-USB connector to charge the battery inside the camera - don't. Buy a battery charger and charge your batteries outside the camera. That's what I do.
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Yes, the small 1" camera that I mentioned uses the "Micro-B" connector, and this kind of connector doesn't seem to be very long living. After some 50 - 100 connections for charging it is getting somewhat more difficult to do the connection. (According to my experience even the "Mini" USB connectors seems to be more long living).
 
007peter said:
USB charging is a NICE feature to have. But there are some reality bites moments:

1. USB charging is often very SLOW..... So slow that you end up buying 3rd party charger because Time = Money
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With my A7s it is the other way around: Charging via USB is faster in-camera than using the official charger.
007peter said:
2. Newer camera allow USB-Charging while shooting, but many DON'T. Meaning you have to shut down the camera while charging it via USB. I know, sounds crazy right, it entirely defeat the purpose of USB-charging.

Just becareful with your expectation. Reality is often cruel.
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