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New Nikon Mirrorless sure looks nice.

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Andreas Voigt said:
Nikon is obsessed with fast (= heavy) lenses, otherwise I would be seriously tempted to move back to Nikon (assuming picture and video quality would deliver)

Nikon Z6: 675 g

GH5: 725 g
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Much of the GH5's extra weight is from the heat sinks necessary for unlimited 4K60p recording. If you are willing to forgo that, the G9 is lighter at 658g (and can still do unlimited 4K30p).

The similar weight A7 III (650g) overheats just recording 4K30p. It'll be interesting to see how the Z6 performs in this regard.
 
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Andreas Voigt said:
Nikon is obsessed with fast (= heavy) lenses, otherwise I would be seriously tempted to move back to Nikon (assuming picture and video quality would deliver)

Nikon Z6: 675 g

GH5: 725 g
Click to expand...
There is already 24-70/4, which should not be as heavy as the current dSLR variants. Still like F2 for mFT, which is quite fast for the zoom already. I personally would not be interested in F4 lens, but then if you go for the weight only, it might be your ticket right there.
 
Sergey_Green said:
Andreas Voigt said:
Nikon is obsessed with fast (= heavy) lenses, otherwise I would be seriously tempted to move back to Nikon (assuming picture and video quality would deliver)

Nikon Z6: 675 g

GH5: 725 g
Click to expand...
There is already 24-70/4, which should not be as heavy as the current dSLR variants. Still like F2 for mFT, which is quite fast for the zoom already. I personally would not be interested in F4 lens, but then if you go for the weight only, it might be your ticket right there.
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Do you get a finders fee?
 
Searching said:
Not that I am planning to leave Olympus, but FF mirrorless is looking more attractive these days, I still lust on it and maybe it's just stupid to do so.
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Searching said:
Not that I am planning to leave Olympus, but FF mirrorless is looking more attractive these days, I still lust on it and maybe it's just stupid to do so.
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there is little comparison with m4/3s so don't really see why we are talking about it on an m4/3s forum. I'm sure there are plenty of people on the Nikon forums who will discuss it
 
Searching said:
Not that I am planning to leave Olympus, but FF mirrorless is looking more attractive these days, I still lust on it and maybe it's just stupid to do so.
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Not to me. I don't really care for full-frame, and I don't see any of the advanced features I so much like on Olympus - Pro-capture, live composite, focus stacking ... Olympus also has faster bursts, perhaps better battery ... So I am kind of relieved - no temptations ;-)
 
I like the m4/3 f1.8/2 primes (e.g. 12mm f2, 17mm f1.8, 25mm f1.8, 45mm f1.8).

The full frame equivalents would be f3.5 or f4. They could be made, but I suspect they expect difficulties marketing them. There are examples of such lenses from the past, which were light and compact (e.g. Pentax 20mm f4, various Leica lenses).

The initial target market for the Z6/7 are probably not interested in a series of f3.5 primes (or f5.6 zooms).

Mark
 
Am I missing something? Why are the primes so large?

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camerasize.com
 
One interesting thing to note is that the battery life is very similar to Panasonic and this will stop people complaining about m43 batteries.

Now Pana needs to come up with G90/95 to shave weight and feature rich as G9 and improve reparability of PL lens to complete in the market.

Seng
 
Searching said:
Not that I am planning to leave Olympus, but FF mirrorless is looking more attractive these days, I still lust on it and maybe it's just stupid to do so.
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Not for the plebs or the amateurs though. This sort of kit could be used by people on another planet as far as your average m43/aps-c mirrorless user goes. A planet with less gravity also before I would consider lugging it all around.
 
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To be honest if I go full frame now, it would either be Nikon D750 with it cheaper lenses or invest in the A7 series by starting with the A7ii.

There's the possibility I may add Full Frame to my M43 gear but that's a few years down the line. By that time, Nikon mirrorless would have matured more, Canon would either messed up again but still getting the sales and crop sensor mirrorless might have better iso to what Full Frame are achieving now.

Overall, I like what I'm seeing from Nikon and it might be a better prospect than the Sony A7 series. However, I would never buy the first generation Z series because there are two flaws already:
  • No dial for single auto focus, continue auto focus and manual focus.
  • Only one card slot.
The next generation of Z cameras would solve these problems, I say next year or early 2020 and at that time you can pick up a cheap Z6 for like a third cheaper than what Nikon is asking now. However we may see the Z8 instead which would likely to be a bigger camera to support the bigger zooms and that will have dual card slots and more dials.

The other issues is the Sony GM 85mm 1.4 is sharp enough to handle a 100 megapixel sensor. I guess the same applies to Sony 50mm 1.4 which cost probably more than Panasonic 50-200mm. Both Nikon Z primes are 1.8 and cost around $800 where a standard Nikon 50mm 1.8 for the F mount would cost around $200. This tell me either production prices are very high and Nikon passing on the cost to the consumers or these primes are super sharp and are designed not only for 45 megapixel sensors but maybe even 80 megapixel sensors as well.

The good news is I still a newbie for flash photography and I need to master that before ever thinking of splashing that type of money on Full Frame.
 
Eric Nepean said:
Searching said:
Not that I am planning to leave Olympus, but FF mirrorless is looking more attractive these days, I still lust on it and maybe it's just stupid to do so.
Click to expand...
I'm suspending judgment & lust until I see
  • SOOC JPEGs
  • Sensor color accuracy/tonal range
  • Sensor dynamic range
  • AF accuracy
  • Tracking accuracy
  • battery life
  • EVF quality
  • lens selection
  • MTF and CA measurements
The rest is marketting fluff.
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Posters over at nikonrumors.com are up in arms about 2 things…
  • Battery life. 330 and 310 shots for Z7 and Z6 respectively.
  • Single memory card slot.
Curiously, I was at B&H yesterday jawing at the Nikon counter. One of the sales guys mentioned that some Nikon bigwigs visited the store months ago. The salesguy was raving about the D850. Nikon guy asked how the salesguy would he feel about a mirrorless D850 if it had similar output and performance. Interesting.
 
alcelc said:
According to Nikon Rumor, not much different from the Sony FF, and has similar but worse issue than Sony yet, lack of native lenses (only 3, 1 zoom and 2 primes) upon launch making it mainly relying on adapting the large dslr lenses (how a FF mirrorless lens can beat the physics becoming really small?). So like Sony, small body and big lens.
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The Nikon F to Z mount adaptor is bundled with the Z cams. That’ll make people’s transition a bit easier, I suppose.
alcelc said:
Smaller body = less space to hold physical keys and buttons. It might need a good and responsive touch LCD to make up the shortage of buttons and key. Could Nikon deliver it?
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Somebody was showing me a D850 yesterday and digging through the menus. The touch interface seems as good as any other.
alcelc said:
How good will be the Live view of Nikon Z? If not, = a big No to their existing die hard ovf users (unless they will love anything from the name Nikon!). Just the spec can't tell at this moment. A poor implemented live view can kill a mirrorless system.

Could the OSPDAF of Nikon Z be as good as its Nikon 1, Sony's A9 or the DPAF of Canon's M also need more info...

Wait and see...
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Indeed!

I’m interested in the Z6, but only using adapted lenses. I’m wondering how long it’ll take companies like Fotodiox to deliver M to Z mount adaptors, for instance.
 
DustyBin said:
Am I missing something? Why are the primes so large?

https://camerasize.com/compact/#777.580,795.786,ha,t
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It's the 50/1.8 that is large, it's also very expensive. I would guess this is a no-holds-barred optical quality f/1.8 (a bit like the Tamron 45, which is also large).

Looks like Nikon is not aiming at compactness as a primary USP (they even made the camera a bit bigger than the A7).
 
But then I remind myself there is a reason I switched from APS-C SLR to M43 5 years ago.
  • I live in a small NYC apartment. My 2 M43 bodies, 9 lenses, microphone, chargers, batteries, and caps all fit into two small zippered cases , each just smaller than a shoebox.
  • I shoot less than 1,000 photos per year with my enthusiast M43 cameras.
  • I prefer to carry my camera body in my carry-on bag, and leave the lenses in checked baggage, and M43 is perfect for that.
  • M43 is good enough for my street and landscape needs, despite poor action and low light performance.
I am staying put. In fact, maybe M43 is the last system I need. M43 plus the latest phone camera is a winning combo for a lot of us.
 
bobn2 said:
DustyBin said:
Am I missing something? Why are the primes so large?

https://camerasize.com/compact/#777.580,795.786,ha,t
Click to expand...
It's the 50/1.8 that is large, it's also very expensive. I would guess this is a no-holds-barred optical quality f/1.8 (a bit like the Tamron 45, which is also large).

Looks like Nikon is not aiming at compactness as a primary USP (they even made the camera a bit bigger than the A7).
Click to expand...
The lenses need to be sharp enough to benefit from Nikon Z7 sensor. Most photographer don't require a 45-megapixel sensor and anyone thinking of getting the Z6 will have to pay a premium for additional sharpness they don't need. I fear there could be another megapixel race on the horizon for lens interchangeable cameras, there's one going on with mobile phones at the moment. How many iPhone users have 4k monitors and need to zoom in on their iPhone images?

One of the reasons why Sony FE lenses cost a lot because they're designed their lenses to be sharp enough to benefit from the A7r series and I heard the GM 85mm 1.4 can benefit from a 100 megapixel sensor.

There are a solution for the Z6, get the adaptor for it and get the cheaper F mount lenses. Then cherry pick the Z lenses you really want like that 58mm 0.95 lens. I hate to think how much that lens would cost.
 
I'm actually considering adding a Sony ff to my kit and Nikon is really tempting. The biggest omission for me is actually one of the simplest imo: dual card slots. For any sort of professional, this is a necessity and I'm shocked they left this out. Poor battery, lack of lenses, no eye-af also kinda suck but I think it's only a matter of time till that's sorted out. I think they've really outdone Sony in terms of ergonomics, lcd, evf here. And it'll be interesting to see how effective that ibis is with the huge mount. That should also be way better than what Sony can do.
 
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