What is the fuss about FF against m43?

That is not my experience with my nature photographer and ornithologist friends.

When I and other nature photographers zoom in to look at feather detail, we are interested in its beauty and design, not the softness of pixels.
When I and other nature photographers zoom in to look at feather detail, we are interested in its beauty and design, not the softness of pixels.
Lovely feather detail! My daughter isn't a "pixel peeper" but is a birder and was delighted to see how the feathers of a (Eurasian) robin "worked" here, what with all the overlapping om the shoulder. I suspect that birders have a slightly different mindset to some other people.

I think the point is that a "pixel peeper" would be annoyed that focus isn't quite on the eyes, but that's not the point of interest to a naturalist.

Posted purely for feather detail. Honestly!
Posted purely for feather detail. Honestly!
 
Blah, blah, blah
You don't crop the lens, you're cropping pixels from the image and comparing it to a full res image from a smaller sensor. If I want to get the same FOV from my FF as I do from my cx I use a longer focal length. I use a 40mm macro on my V3 and a 105mm macro on my D800, the d800 puts twice as many pixels on point as my V3.

I am focal length limited on my D800 compared to my V3 tho so for really long stuff I use my V3 with a 70-300. this gives a similar angle of view as my D800 would with a 800mm lens. I don't have one of those so I use what I have but I don't kid myself that the V3 image would be as good as my D800 with an 800mm lens......
 
pictures.

Just because my Honda gets me to work just as fast as a Ferrari doesn't make it one. Some folks here have a hard time with that for some strange reason.
Really? Can you cite or link to someone thinking something remotely similar to what you claim here?
 
pictures.

Just because my Honda gets me to work just as fast as a Ferrari doesn't make it one. Some folks here have a hard time with that for some strange reason.
Really? Can you cite or link to someone thinking something remotely similar to what you claim here?
And you and others haven't said anything along the lines of -

"m43 is good enough"

"difference with larger sensor doesn't show in prints"

"20mp is more than enough for large prints. Hell! even 8mp is enough"

.....and therefore nobody should own anything better etc etc.
 
Last edited:
pictures.

Just because my Honda gets me to work just as fast as a Ferrari doesn't make it one. Some folks here have a hard time with that for some strange reason.
Really? Can you cite or link to someone thinking something remotely similar to what you claim here?
And there's nowhere to mount a tow bar on my Ferrari ... and it's lousy on dirt roads and sand dunes ... ;-) .
 
NjoyCam: Great question and love the pics. I have a Canon SL1 (Aps-C) when I want the best resolution or need a good lens setup, Panasonic LX100 (m43) that I carry almost everywhere (gotta love the f1.4), Panasonic FZ2500 (1”) for great cine and finally a DJI Mavic Pro for pics from above.

The sensor sizes range all over the place, but the funny part is my Mavic has the smallest sensor size, but 3 times now I have shot sunset photos that were featured as backgrounds on one of the national cable weather channels. I must say they looked great.

I’ve learned so much about composure over the years from Pros that I no longer worry about sensor size. It would be different if I was working for a news agency, sports or as a wedding photographer, but I do this for fun. The drone photos were a fluke situation by running into someone who worked there and I must say the pictures were pretty stunning.

My thoughts?? (Since you asked in your post [smile]) I would use what gear I loved and could afford and rock on. Your pics look great. Get a good backpack that you can throw a piece of gear in and try to take it everywhere. I shoot photos like they are water coming out of the hose. Hey! It’s digital... no film to process. I just throw away what sucks. Keep up the great photos and have fun.
 
As I said before, 2x crop of the full-frame image, needed to match the magnification of a m4/3 image (made with same lens), will have at best only 10 mpix, and the m4/3 image will have 20 mpix. Difference in details is huge.
So it is not about the amount of detail that better sensors behind better lenses do normally deliver but magnification? Would longer lens help FF a bit?
I see you have problems understanding terms and differences between magnification, resolution and resolving power. Perhaps you can google them, preferably on a site dedicated to microscopy or astronomy.

And yes, longer lens would of course help. But often you simply don't have a longer lens, and even if you have, it is more expensive (and heavy).

The so-called crop factor is an advantage of the m4/3 sensor (over full-frame) only because the m4/3 sensor also has a higher linear resolution. With the same linear resolution, there would be no advantage of the crop factor whatsoever, because you could simply crop full-frame image in post-process, to get the exact same result.
So Nikon 1 is a better system for Macro photography than m43rds after all then.
 
And there's nowhere to mount a tow bar on my Ferrari ... and it's lousy on dirt roads and sand dunes ... ;-) .
Just to mix up the analogies: Isn't it odd that the Olympics has so many events? Surely there should be just one prize, for "Best At Sports."
Why not, indeed ... :-D
 
As I said before, 2x crop of the full-frame image, needed to match the magnification of a m4/3 image (made with same lens), will have at best only 10 mpix, and the m4/3 image will have 20 mpix. Difference in details is huge.
So it is not about the amount of detail that better sensors behind better lenses do normally deliver but magnification? Would longer lens help FF a bit?
I see you have problems understanding terms and differences between magnification, resolution and resolving power. Perhaps you can google them, preferably on a site dedicated to microscopy or astronomy.

And yes, longer lens would of course help. But often you simply don't have a longer lens, and even if you have, it is more expensive (and heavy).

The so-called crop factor is an advantage of the m4/3 sensor (over full-frame) only because the m4/3 sensor also has a higher linear resolution. With the same linear resolution, there would be no advantage of the crop factor whatsoever, because you could simply crop full-frame image in post-process, to get the exact same result.
So Nikon 1 is a better system for Macro photography than m43rds after all then.
It depends on lenses you can use it with it. Also on availability of some accessories, like extension tubes and macro bellows. You can do amazing macro with some compact cameras, but you are quite limited by the non-interchangeable lens. There are also compromises due to higher noise (as a consequence of smaller pixels), but this can be compensated to a degree by good lightning.
 
So longer lens is always better for macro, yes?
No. Do you think lenses on microscopes (which could be considered as an extreme macro) are long? They are in fact short (wide).
Microscopes achieve high magnification by virtue of the extreme close working distance of their objective lens combined with the magnifying eyepiece
Olympus 30mm macro has greater magnification than 60mm. Lenses for extreme macro (to be used with macro bellows) are even wider (up to 20mm on a full-frame).
That’s due to its 14mm min focusing distance vs 190mm for the 60mm, not due to its focal length

Canon’s MPE-65 is their highest magnification macro, far exceeding anything in MFT, and its a 65mm FF lens with extreme close focusing capabilities
But you can still compensate for lower linear resolution of the full-frame sensor with more specialised (and expensive) lens and associated gear, like macro bellows.

Yo can get the same macro details of an insect eye, or "tele" details of Saturn rings, but with a full-frame sensor you need more expensive lens, to compensate for its lower linear resolution.
The detail visible in Saturn’s rings is dependent on the focal length of the objective and on the diameter of the objective. Ultimately astronomical detail is more dependent on diffraction. Larger objective = higher diffraction limited resolution.
These are all factors related to the optics (lens), not to the sensor. Nothing changes the fact that due to the higher linear resolution of the sensor you will be able to capture more details with an m4/3 than with a full-frame (using the same macro lens or telescope).
 
As I said before, 2x crop of the full-frame image, needed to match the magnification of a m4/3 image (made with same lens), will have at best only 10 mpix, and the m4/3 image will have 20 mpix. Difference in details is huge.
So it is not about the amount of detail that better sensors behind better lenses do normally deliver but magnification? Would longer lens help FF a bit?
I see you have problems understanding terms and differences between magnification, resolution and resolving power. Perhaps you can google them, preferably on a site dedicated to microscopy or astronomy.

And yes, longer lens would of course help. But often you simply don't have a longer lens, and even if you have, it is more expensive (and heavy).

The so-called crop factor is an advantage of the m4/3 sensor (over full-frame) only because the m4/3 sensor also has a higher linear resolution. With the same linear resolution, there would be no advantage of the crop factor whatsoever, because you could simply crop full-frame image in post-process, to get the exact same result.
So Nikon 1 is a better system for Macro photography than m43rds after all then.
It depends on lenses you can use it with it. Also on availability of some accessories, like extension tubes and macro bellows. You can do amazing macro with some compact cameras, but you are quite limited by the non-interchangeable lens. There are also compromises due to higher noise (as a consequence of smaller pixels), but this can be compensated to a degree by good lightning.
you can use most things with an F mount, some lenses you may need to manually focus with though, as for the lighting and noise that applies to any camera especially as the sensors get smaller
 
pictures.

Just because my Honda gets me to work just as fast as a Ferrari doesn't make it one. Some folks here have a hard time with that for some strange reason.
For some strange reason some folks, including you, have a hard time understanding what we are really talking about.

Nobody here is saying that Honda is the same as Ferrari. We are just saying, that it will get you to work just as fast.

I really don't get it why, if I write "Honda will get you to work as fast as Ferrari", some read that as "Honda is the same as Ferrari"? And than get all excited and start replaying that Honda is not the same as Ferrari. Problems with basic reading comprehension?
 
Last edited:

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top