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Nikon is here. Canon next?

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confused circle said:
Mako2011 said:
noggin2k1 said:
A countdown to an announcement gives absolutely no indication of a release date, that's the point I'm making.
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That was not clear from your original post
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Because that actually wasn't the point
noggin2k1 said:
It may be announced tomorrow, it may be announced in 3 months, it may be announced for release next year!
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Not tomorrow, nor in 3 months. You did not know about the countdown, simple as that.
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Thanks for telling me what my thoughts are, much appreciated. Any chance you could also confirm what I'm favouring for dinner tomorrow night?
 
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sobrien said:
PhotoKhan said:
I reckon Canon will announce theirs until the end of September because:

1. These cameras are important for both brands.

2. From a marketing stand point it makes sense to let the trailing brand announce their product ahead of the market share leading brand, if the timescale gap is a short one.
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I don't work in marketing but that seems plausible, provided, that is, that Canon is confident that its release(s) will have enough going for it to steal the super-hyped rollercoaster of PR limelight back from the Nikon release whilst it is still going full throttle. That might be tricky, as you get the feeling that Nikon are heavily invested in this release. The teaser and the apparent change of mount indicate as much.

Either way, I think it is fair to say that Canon will want to provide at least a development announcement of a full frame mirrorless camera within a short enough timeframe of the Nikon release - something to make people think twice before buying the Nikon. Perhaps Canon announces a M5 mark ii and at the same time a development announcement of a full frame version.
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For it to be effective Canon's offer will have to really stand out.
sobrien said:
sobrien said:
3. Sony is still just a small pebble in an otherwise big shoe
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I think that analogy is a bit harsh on Sony
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No, not really. The numbers support it.

Did you know that in Japan Sony actually ranks behind Canon in mirrorless market share? Not by much but it does.

Loading…

www.bcnaward.jp

One must not confuse the proselytism of Sony acolytes with facts.

Smarketing is beating the drums quite loud and it affects even the most unsuspected, otherwise extremely competent and professional pawns.

Just a couple of days ago, right here on DPR, Chris and Jordan made a review of the new Sony 400 f/2.8 lens and Chris had no problem stating that with that lens Sony was now "au par with" Canon and Nikon in what regards to long teles without even stopping for moment to refelect on how factually inaccurate that statement was.
sobrien said:
sobrien said:
but Canon can not afford to tackle Nikon on a "one-on-one" basis in this crucial offer.
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Agreed
sobrien said:
PK
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Mark B. said:
It's inevitable that Canon will announce a FF mirrorless at some point. They have already committed to APS-C mirrorless, so it's just a matter of time.

Mark
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Yes...and I've telling for quite a long time that it all obeys to a very articulate plan.

If things go as I imagine they will, we're are going for a very tasty treat in a very short time.

PK
 
...by coming up with a all-new lens mount, as things now seem to pointing to.

If the camera is FF, that will leave current glass owners quite frustrated.

If current users have to start an whole glass line-up from scratch they might as well consider other offers.

If the new camera is MF, then things will be different for Nikon as a clean cut step away and up (...in a sense...) from what current users already have might be an interesting offer, especially if pricing is aggressive.

How does this affect us?

Well, the stakes are the same in Canon-land except that, having a more extensive, congruent and integrated EOS system Canon will have more to gain if they make the new offer(s) able to accept EF lenses.

Canon already demonstrated they have a better strategy than Nikon, if we compare the 1-Series fiasco vs. the EOS M success.

Let's see how this new, critical round turns out...

PK
 
chicken biryani
 
Nikon will only be here if it is able to match or exceed Sony offerings. One area where Nikon might exceed Sony is in the AF. Nikon 1 had a blazing fast AF, better than most DSLR's in fact.

It will be interesting to see what this new mount is all about, and what Nikon will be able to pack in their mirrorless.

My aging DSLR will be replaced by mirrorless next, because mirrorless cameras are already taking over DSLRs in most features . Whether I will go with Sony or Nikon, I'm yet to see.
 
noggin2k1 said:
There's nothing concrete to say that "Nikon is here". They could be under the impression they are losing customer base to mirrorless, and by releasing a snippet, they are hoping it could stop the fence sitters from migrating away from them. It may be announced tomorrow, it may be announced in 3 months, it may be announced for release next year!
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Nikon's teaser campaign is a reliable indicator that they are close to shipping — i.e. 3 months or less. Sometime in the next 4-6 weeks there will be an official announcement, then 4-6 weeks after that, the product will begin shipping. They just don't do teasers without a relatively short shipping window that they know they can meet.

So-called "development announcements" are different, and are what you are thinking of. Those are sometimes done to stop perceived market erosion, and they can sometimes happen many months before a product ships.

In this case, we have a teaser and a development announcement, but the teaser is dispositive. It means with 99% certainty that the product is relatively close to shipping. The production line is almost certainly already running.

Addendum: It's worth noting that Canon typically runs on a more compressed product rollout schedule than most other camera manufacturers, and they don't do a lot of teasers and development announcements. So, let's say both Nikon and Canon had a ship date of October 15. We might not hear anything from Canon until the official announcement 3 weeks before shipping, even as Nikon runs a teaser campaign for two months beforehand. I'm not saying one method is better than the other; just noting habits.
 
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Canon will be next but I doubt it'll be as impressive. I'd love to be wrong but until Canon bite the bullet and reset their pricing/segmentation nothing of note will happen. Canon currently base their segmentation and pricing on a $1800 featured camera that costs $3300.
 
The Fat Fish said:
Canon will be next but I doubt it'll be as impressive. I'd love to be wrong but until Canon bite the bullet and reset their pricing/segmentation nothing of note will happen. Canon currently base their segmentation and pricing on a $1800 featured camera that costs $3300.
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peripheralfocus said:
noggin2k1 said:
There's nothing concrete to say that "Nikon is here". They could be under the impression they are losing customer base to mirrorless, and by releasing a snippet, they are hoping it could stop the fence sitters from migrating away from them. It may be announced tomorrow, it may be announced in 3 months, it may be announced for release next year!
Click to expand...
Nikon's teaser campaign is a reliable indicator that they are close to shipping — i.e. 3 months or less. Sometime in the next 4-6 weeks there will be an official announcement, then 4-6 weeks after that, the product will begin shipping. They just don't do teasers without a relatively short shipping window that they know they can meet.

So-called "development announcements" are different, and are what you are thinking of. Those are sometimes done to stop perceived market erosion, and they can sometimes happen many months before a product ships.

In this case, we have a teaser and a development announcement, but the teaser is dispositive. It means with 99% certainty that the product is relatively close to shipping. The production line is almost certainly already running.

Addendum: It's worth noting that Canon typically runs on a more compressed product rollout schedule than most other camera manufacturers, and they don't do a lot of teasers and development announcements. So, let's say both Nikon and Canon had a ship date of October 15. We might not hear anything from Canon until the official announcement 3 weeks before shipping, even as Nikon runs a teaser campaign for two months beforehand. I'm not saying one method is better than the other; just noting habits.
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In a national forum, here in Portugal, I have other users going the "we don't know if it is coming" way.

It is beyond puzzling that people don't know what that teaser site means.

(...or maybe they do and it just a sign of simple, straightforward denial...)

PK
 
PhotoKhan said:
The Fat Fish said:
Canon will be next but I doubt it'll be as impressive. I'd love to be wrong but until Canon bite the bullet and reset their pricing/segmentation nothing of note will happen. Canon currently base their segmentation and pricing on a $1800 featured camera that costs $3300.
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1Dx4me said:
noggin2k1 said:
PhotoKhan said:
noggin2k1 said:
PhotoKhan said:
noggin2k1 said:
There's nothing concrete to say that "Nikon is here".
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Jesus!...I provided a link...

When people want to be contentious nothing stops them, not even facts I guess ;-)

PK
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Why are you getting on your high horse? The irony is, there is no facts in your title or subsequent comment.

I've merely pointed out that Nikon's mirrorless offering may not be as close as your title may lead people to believe, and as such, don't believe Canon's FF mirrorless will be here anytime soon. I've responded to your thoughts with my thoughts, you may wish to check the definition of contentious - because that I was most certainly not.
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Yes, Nikon published a teaser about a camera that is not coming.

...in fact, they only did it out of sheer deference to me so I could start this thread.
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A countdown to an announcement gives absolutely no indication of a release date, that's the point I'm making. The fact that Nikon are still struggling to have any form of available stock of the D850 (possible due to demand, possible due to manufacturing) in many countries makes me think it isn't imminent.

I just don't understand the reason for your poor attitude when someone is simply offering a contrasting opinion or point of view.
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why is the exact date and time so important at this point? we all know it is coming so whether canon/nikon announcing the date and time, is moot.
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PhotoKhan said:
The Fat Fish said:
Canon will be next but I doubt it'll be as impressive. I'd love to be wrong but until Canon bite the bullet and reset their pricing/segmentation nothing of note will happen. Canon currently base their segmentation and pricing on a $1800 featured camera that costs $3300.
Click to expand...
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noggin2k1 said:
1Dx4me said:
noggin2k1 said:
PhotoKhan said:
noggin2k1 said:
PhotoKhan said:
noggin2k1 said:
There's nothing concrete to say that "Nikon is here".
Click to expand...
Jesus!...I provided a link...

When people want to be contentious nothing stops them, not even facts I guess ;-)

PK
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Why are you getting on your high horse? The irony is, there is no facts in your title or subsequent comment.

I've merely pointed out that Nikon's mirrorless offering may not be as close as your title may lead people to believe, and as such, don't believe Canon's FF mirrorless will be here anytime soon. I've responded to your thoughts with my thoughts, you may wish to check the definition of contentious - because that I was most certainly not.
Click to expand...
Yes, Nikon published a teaser about a camera that is not coming.

...in fact, they only did it out of sheer deference to me so I could start this thread.
Click to expand...
A countdown to an announcement gives absolutely no indication of a release date, that's the point I'm making. The fact that Nikon are still struggling to have any form of available stock of the D850 (possible due to demand, possible due to manufacturing) in many countries makes me think it isn't imminent.

I just don't understand the reason for your poor attitude when someone is simply offering a contrasting opinion or point of view.
Click to expand...
why is the exact date and time so important at this point? we all know it is coming so whether canon/nikon announcing the date and time, is moot.
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There's a big difference between something "being here" and something "being here at some point in the future", which to me, impacts how Canon needs to react.

If the offering arrives by the end of August and is an absolute blockbuster (if it's a mirrorless D850, it will be), then Canon need to pull out a serious knee jerk reaction. If it's announced for the end of the year, or a 'sneak peek', then Canon can bide their time a bit on their strategy.

Whilst neither outcome will have any impact on Canon's R&D of any potential FF mirrorless offering - I'd expect them to be at such a point of development now, that the only changes they can make to such a timeline would be a delay.
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People really don’t have time for the “watch this space” in 2018.

I would say things will move quickly now and before the end of next week we will know what’s on offer
 
Caro, o release da Nikon fala explicitamente em um adaptador para F-mount, eles devem ter trabalhado muito para garantir praticamente completa funcionalidade das lentes atuais nas novas câmaras.

Canon deve adotar um novo mount também, para aproveitar a ausência do espelho. Essa é a razão para as duas empresas demorarem tanto para entrar no mercado de FF sem espelhos.

Abraços!
 
Peak Sony was three days ago. It's downhill from here. Too bad. Annoying users, but great tech.
 
rhlpetrus said:
Caro, o release da Nikon fala explicitamente em um adaptador para F-mount, eles devem ter trabalhado muito para garantir praticamente completa funcionalidade das lentes atuais nas novas câmaras.

Canon deve adotar um novo mount também, para aproveitar a ausência do espelho. Essa é a razão para as duas empresas demorarem tanto para entrar no mercado de FF sem espelhos.

Abraços!
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Fog Maker said:
noggin2k1 said:
1Dx4me said:
noggin2k1 said:
PhotoKhan said:
noggin2k1 said:
PhotoKhan said:
noggin2k1 said:
There's nothing concrete to say that "Nikon is here".
Click to expand...
Jesus!...I provided a link...

When people want to be contentious nothing stops them, not even facts I guess ;-)

PK
Click to expand...
Why are you getting on your high horse? The irony is, there is no facts in your title or subsequent comment.

I've merely pointed out that Nikon's mirrorless offering may not be as close as your title may lead people to believe, and as such, don't believe Canon's FF mirrorless will be here anytime soon. I've responded to your thoughts with my thoughts, you may wish to check the definition of contentious - because that I was most certainly not.
Click to expand...
Yes, Nikon published a teaser about a camera that is not coming.

...in fact, they only did it out of sheer deference to me so I could start this thread.
Click to expand...
A countdown to an announcement gives absolutely no indication of a release date, that's the point I'm making. The fact that Nikon are still struggling to have any form of available stock of the D850 (possible due to demand, possible due to manufacturing) in many countries makes me think it isn't imminent.

I just don't understand the reason for your poor attitude when someone is simply offering a contrasting opinion or point of view.
Click to expand...
why is the exact date and time so important at this point? we all know it is coming so whether canon/nikon announcing the date and time, is moot.
Click to expand...
There's a big difference between something "being here" and something "being here at some point in the future", which to me, impacts how Canon needs to react.

If the offering arrives by the end of August and is an absolute blockbuster (if it's a mirrorless D850, it will be), then Canon need to pull out a serious knee jerk reaction. If it's announced for the end of the year, or a 'sneak peek', then Canon can bide their time a bit on their strategy.

Whilst neither outcome will have any impact on Canon's R&D of any potential FF mirrorless offering - I'd expect them to be at such a point of development now, that the only changes they can make to such a timeline would be a delay.
Click to expand...
People really don’t have time for the “watch this space” in 2018.

I would say things will move quickly now and before the end of next week we will know what’s on offer
Click to expand...
i bet most DSLR owners won't be impressed no matter how good these MLC cameras will be ;-) new mountings and new lenses? nonsense! although that would be real good news for canon/nikon if this scheme works...new cash stream for them!!!
 
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