Macro with A7RIII or A7III?

Flangz

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I'm a long-term Canon user but am ready to go mirrorless. I do a lot of macro work - usually using extension tubes and the canon 100mmL. Almost all macro activity is done indoors using a tripod. I've been using an elderly Canon 6D and have been pretty happy with the results.

I have a few questions :
  1. A7R3 or A73? I'm assuming that the R3 would be the best choice here (I do like to crop a lot) but, not knowing the technical limitations of higher density sensors for macros, I'm wondering if I'd see a significant difference between the two?
  2. Will my Canon 100mm macro lens be tolerable with an adapter for mostly indoor shoots? If so, any recommendations for an adapter? And --would adapted glass still gain the advantage of the extra pixels of the R3?).

  3. If I went with a native macro lens, any recommendations? (I don't necessarily need a lot of working distance but would like a high quality lens).

  4. Anyone know if there is a tethered software-based automated solution for taking stacks that supports Sony cameras kind of like Helicon Remote?

  5. I also do street and concert photography but I'm guessing that I'm not going to notice much difference as far as focusing between the two - especially coming from a 6D but would appreciate any opinions on that (love the 6D's low-light focusing though).
 
I have a few questions :

3. If I went with a native macro lens, any recommendations? (I don't necessarily need a lot of working distance but would like a high quality lens).
If working distance is not a concern, the FE 2.8/50 Macro is a high quality lens.

61697422445c47669d0f2b29d9c67a3a.jpg

The other native option is FE 2.8/90 Macro which is larger/heavier.

If you decide to use a native lens, you can rent both and compare!

I can not address your other questions.

- Richard

--
http://www.rsjphoto.net
 
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I'm a long-term Canon user but am ready to go mirrorless. I do a lot of macro work - usually using extension tubes and the canon 100mmL. Almost all macro activity is done indoors using a tripod. I've been using an elderly Canon 6D and have been pretty happy with the results.

I have a few questions :

A7R3 or A73? I'm assuming that the R3 would be the best choice here (I do like to crop a lot) but, not knowing the technical limitations of higher density sensors for macros, I'm wondering if I'd see a significant difference between the two?
I would suggest the A7R3, the extra resolution is definitely worthwhile IMO. I love the extra resolution and dynamic range the A7R2 gives me when compared to my old 5D2.
Will my Canon 100mm macro lens be tolerable with an adapter for mostly indoor shoots? If so, any recommendations for an adapter? And --would adapted glass still gain the advantage of the extra pixels of the R3?).
The 100mm L IS will be excellent in terms of image quality. I use a Sigma MC-11EF with mine, and the results are excellent on my A7R2:

Marbled White in the wild, A7R2, Sigma MC-11EF, Canon 100mm f2.8 L/IS Macro, Godox TT685S
Marbled White in the wild, A7R2, Sigma MC-11EF, Canon 100mm f2.8 L/IS Macro, Godox TT685S

Hard to assess the real resolution in an HD image; as the size will hide all manner of things... So, how about a 100% crop:

Same shot, different... Crop ;) 100% when viewed at 1920px
Same shot, different... Crop ;) 100% when viewed at 1920px

I'm less happy with the AF performance, but my understanding is that the performance is much better with the .3 cameras; I'm currently using an A7R2.
 
I'm a long-term Canon user but am ready to go mirrorless. I do a lot of macro work - usually using extension tubes and the canon 100mmL. Almost all macro activity is done indoors using a tripod. I've been using an elderly Canon 6D and have been pretty happy with the results.
I switched from Canon when the A7rii was the flagship. Besides regular photography, including weddings and events etc, I do a *lot* of studio macro (stacking). Initially, I carried my Canon 100mm L macro and MP-E 65 over and used them with a Metabones IV adapter. The 100mm for field macro, the MP-E for studio stacking. They both worked well - though AF felt a bit more hunty with the 100mm.
I have a few questions :

A7R3 or A73? I'm assuming that the R3 would be the best choice here (I do like to crop a lot) but, not knowing the technical limitations of higher density sensors for macros, I'm wondering if I'd see a significant difference between the two?
A7R3 (or R2) for sure. Both Canon lenses will *nearly* resolve to 4.5µm pixel level, albeit only when shot pretty wide open. The MP-E 65 has better resolution than the 100mm at 1x-3x (roughly - I think). Wide aperture shouldn't be a problem if you're mainly stacking.
Will my Canon 100mm macro lens be tolerable with an adapter for mostly indoor shoots? If so, any recommendations for an adapter? And --would adapted glass still gain the advantage of the extra pixels of the R3?).
Yes. I'd recommend the Metabones IV (or V) because its smart mode lets you focus at the shooting aperture and "show setting effect on" will show exactly what the captured image will look like. Focusing wide open then stopping down to shoot (Canon default as emulated by the Metabones "Green mode" or some other adapters gives some focus shift - worse on the MP-E.

The adapter won't make any difference. You'll gain most of the advantage of the extra pixels. More so with the MP-E65 though.
If I went with a native macro lens, any recommendations? (I don't necessarily need a lot of working distance but would like a high quality lens).
I eventually sold my 100mm (kept the MP-E) and got the Sony FE 90/2.8 macro. It's fantastic. Sharper with way better bokeh. AF is a tad faster than the adapted 100mm too, though it can still be a bit "hunty" if you don't limit the focus range with the switch on the lens. I mainly use the Sony 90 for field macro and close-up nature shots.
Anyone know if there is a tethered software-based automated solution for taking stacks that supports Sony cameras kind of like Helicon Remote?
I'm not familiar with any tethering software really but would recommend using an automated rail anyway (e.g WeMacro or Stackshot or similar).
I also do street and concert photography but I'm guessing that I'm not going to notice much difference as far as focusing between the two - especially coming from a 6D but would appreciate any opinions on that (love the 6D's low-light focusing though).
I'm not familiar with 6d low light focussing, so can't help with that one. Soz
 
Thanks for the Info - and nice picture!
 
Thanks!

I really appreciate the 100% crop - that says a lot! - Great picture too!

It's good to know that I can use my current macro lens without having to upgrade right away.
 
I really appreciate the detail - thanks!

It definitely helps a lot as far as my decision (RIII it is).

I'm pretty sure I'll be going with the 90/2.8 soon enough too after I rebound financially (optimism included). I wish I would have picked up the MP-E years ago.

I know I've needed a rail for a while now -- guess I have a reasonable excuse to get one.

Thanks again.
 
I'm a long-term Canon user but am ready to go mirrorless. I do a lot of macro work - usually using extension tubes and the canon 100mmL. Almost all macro activity is done indoors using a tripod. I've been using an elderly Canon 6D and have been pretty happy with the results.

I have a few questions :
  1. A7R3 or A73? I'm assuming that the R3 would be the best choice here (I do like to crop a lot) but, not knowing the technical limitations of higher density sensors for macros, I'm wondering if I'd see a significant difference between the two?
  2. Will my Canon 100mm macro lens be tolerable with an adapter for mostly indoor shoots? If so, any recommendations for an adapter? And --would adapted glass still gain the advantage of the extra pixels of the R3?).
  3. If I went with a native macro lens, any recommendations? (I don't necessarily need a lot of working distance but would like a high quality lens).
  4. Anyone know if there is a tethered software-based automated solution for taking stacks that supports Sony cameras kind of like Helicon Remote?
  5. I also do street and concert photography but I'm guessing that I'm not going to notice much difference as far as focusing between the two - especially coming from a 6D but would appreciate any opinions on that (love the 6D's low-light focusing though).
I set up for indoor macros using my a7Rii and the excellent MP-E 65 f/2.8 1-5x macro but I have just converted the setup back to my Canon 6D. The reason I did this is that with LR and EOS utility you can work fully tethered to a Canon DSLR, including showing the all-important high-quality preview on the PC's monitor.

EOS Utility-3 provides x1, x5 and x10 magnification for critical focusing of the previews on the PC monitor. I tried using Capture One with my a7Rii instead of LR but couldn't get a high enough quality Live View image on my monitor. In the end I found that the rear LCD was better for critical focus. LR doesn't support tethered operation of the a7Rii and you can't get a preview on the monitor for critical focussing. You can see a high quality image after you have taken the shot.

For macros with an A73 or A7R3, the Canon 100 f/2.8 macro will work fine and has the benefit that you can use its tripod mount. You will need an smart adapter such as the Metabones IV to control the aperture of the EOS 100 f/2.8 macro and provide full electronic coupling to the camera.

Sony's FE 90 f/2.8 macro, while a truly excellent lens, doesn't have a tripod mount for some strange reason so I only use it handheld outdoors. I hate to have this heavy lens supported by the camera's tripod mount. I also have Sony's modestly priced FE 50 f/2.8 macro and this works well - still no tripod mount but it is much lighter that the 90 macro. Of course you have to get closer to your subject.

I use a Stackshot automated focus rack with Zerene Stacker (ZS) software with either system. ZS has the advantage over Helicon Focus in that you can fully operate the Stackshot using the PC and not the Stackshot controller. This system is a pleasure to use!

The A73 or A7R3 should be excellent for street and concert photography but I would hang on to the 6D for the macro work. Also, a permanent macro setup with the 6D leaves the Sony camera free for other uses!
 
...Sony's FE 90 f/2.8 macro, while a truly excellent lens, doesn't have a tripod mount for some strange reason so I only use it handheld outdoors. I hate to have this heavy lens supported by the camera's tripod mount. I also have Sony's modestly priced FE 50 f/2.8 macro and this works well - still no tripod mount but it is much lighter that the 90 macro. Of course you have to get closer to your subject.
An adapter with a nice solid mounting foot can be nice as well for balance.

But I'm thoroughly hooked on the FE90. At first I was apprehensive about tripod mounting via the body but I really haven't had any problems once I got over it and dove in. (Except maybe remembering to switch the OSS off.)

The balance (or lack thereof) is not ideal. This Novoflex mounting collar (meant for their adapters) with the right insert looks like it might be worth a look if you really want to do something about that:


I haven't been compelled to try it myself. (Especially as I do more and more of my product shooting handheld.)

Can't recommend the FE90 highly enough, though. It's not just the optics - the overall implementation is superb IMO.
 
...Sony's FE 90 f/2.8 macro, while a truly excellent lens, doesn't have a tripod mount for some strange reason so I only use it handheld outdoors. I hate to have this heavy lens supported by the camera's tripod mount. I also have Sony's modestly priced FE 50 f/2.8 macro and this works well - still no tripod mount but it is much lighter that the 90 macro. Of course you have to get closer to your subject.
An adapter with a nice solid mounting foot can be nice as well for balance.

But I'm thoroughly hooked on the FE90. At first I was apprehensive about tripod mounting via the body but I really haven't had any problems once I got over it and dove in. (Except maybe remembering to switch the OSS off.)
Jefenator: Thanks for your response. I have used my FE 90 with my a7Rii connected to my tripod without any signs of camera damage but then I wanted to add a lens mounted flash and I wasn't comfortable using the setup on a tripod with the added weight of the flash at the very end of the FE 90. That, and the lack of full LR connectivity for tethering my a7Rii to a PC with high quality Live View preview capability, caused me to reluctantly switch back to Canon for indoor macro work. I would have bought an a7Riii if this enabled full LR tethering. Perhaps the a7Riv? I note that my Canon DSLR has a separate connectors for Live View and remote shutter actuation and perhaps this is necessary.

What I don't understand is why Sony didn't design the outer barrel of the FE 90 so that a decent wide tripod mount would fit and could be purchased separately. Was priority given to maintaining a common lens look rather than the providing enough physical space for a decent mount? It's a pity because the FE 90 f/2.8 is optically the best macro I have owned. I have two Canon and two Sony macros. The only macros without tripod mounts are the two Sony's.
The balance (or lack thereof) is not ideal. This Novoflex mounting collar (meant for their adapters) with the right insert looks like it might be worth a look if you really want to do something about that:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56185556
I have a Novoflex adapter plus tripod mount for fitting Nikon lenses on my a7Rii but my version is the wrong diameter to fit on the FE 90 macro. I believe that a different insert would provide a narrow connection to the lens barrel but it isn't a very solid connection and it would be in the wrong place on the lens.
Can't recommend the FE90 highly enough, though. It's not just the optics - the overall implementation is superb IMO.
No argument about the image and build quality of this lens that but my one is relegated to handheld use because of the lack of a tripod collar.
 
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Maybe a bit OT but has anyone seen reviews of the new 70mm Sigma Art 1:1 Macro ?

And how would the VC 65mm stack up against the Sony 90mm?
 
The Sony 90mm Macro is really sharp, and light enough to be mounted on a tripod via the body. The A7R III works really well with the 90mm.
 
I don't know if this is going to help in any way, but here you have an example of the Canon 100mmL using a Metabones Smart Adapter III on a Sony a6000, APS-C camera with 24MP, pixel density similar to the one on the Canon 5DS.

https://sta.sh/013f8nwpfwe1

sorry, DPR didn't allow me to link to the image itself. if you click twice on the photo, you can zoom in to the full res photo. ACR default settings applied, no lens correction applied. 1/320, f/5.6, ISO 250, no flash, handheld.
 
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I'm a long-term Canon user but am ready to go mirrorless. I do a lot of macro work - usually using extension tubes and the canon 100mmL. Almost all macro activity is done indoors using a tripod. I've been using an elderly Canon 6D and have been pretty happy with the results.

I have a few questions :
  1. A7R3 or A73? I'm assuming that the R3 would be the best choice here (I do like to crop a lot) but, not knowing the technical limitations of higher density sensors for macros, I'm wondering if I'd see a significant difference between the two?
With good lenses, you'll be able to take advantage of the increased resolution of the a7RIII.
  1. Will my Canon 100mm macro lens be tolerable with an adapter for mostly indoor shoots
  1. Yes.
  1. If so, any recommendations for an adapter? And --would adapted glass still gain the advantage of the extra pixels of the R3?).
Yes.
  1. If I went with a native macro lens, any recommendations? (I don't necessarily need a lot of working distance but would like a high quality lens).
FE 90.
  1. Anyone know if there is a tethered software-based automated solution for taking stacks that supports Sony cameras kind of like Helicon Remote?
No. Do you know that the GFX and the D850 both do automated stack captures using the camera's firmware? If macro is your compelling interest, that's something to consider. You can use a Cognisys rail with the a7RIII, but that's not the best way to do the captures unless you're very close.
  1. I also do street and concert photography but I'm guessing that I'm not going to notice much difference as far as focusing between the two - especially coming from a 6D but would appreciate any opinions on that (love the 6D's low-light focusing though).
 
And how would the VC 65mm stack up against the Sony 90mm?
The CV 65 does 1:2 macro, the Sony 90 does 1:1

The CV 65 is a stop faster, f/2 vs f/2.8 for the Sony 90

The CV 65 is one of the best Sony system lenses, right up there with the Loxia 21 and the CV 40. The Sony 90 is no slouch.

There is a fair amount of lens variability with the Sony 90, so make sure to buy it from a seller with a good exchange policy, and test it when you get it (see Jim Kasson's Zeiss Star method). The CV 65 seems to have a more consistent build.

The 90 gives you more working distance.

I've owned both, and ended up with the CV 65. I love the Voigtlanders and have pre-ordered the CV 110 (which will do 1:1 macro and is APO like the 65).

Truth is, you can't go wrong with either lens. Were it not for the CV 110, I would own the Sony 90 and the CV 65.
 
I just noticed this bracket comes with the option to add a "Lens Adapter Support" (which appears to slide over a couple of bolts to adjust to support a bit of weight just off the mount).


Not an ideal solution but potentially a bit more convenient and elegant than my scheme of using my large QR plate with just the right thickness of rubber wedged underneath the lens. (Not to mention the Smallrig accessory is Arca-Swiss compatible.)
 
I just noticed this bracket comes with the option to add a "Lens Adapter Support" (which appears to slide over a couple of bolts to adjust to support a bit of weight just off the mount).

https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-l-bracket-for-sony-a7iii-a7m3-a7riii-a9-2122.html

Not an ideal solution but potentially a bit more convenient and elegant than my scheme of using my large QR plate with just the right thickness of rubber wedged underneath the lens. (Not to mention the Smallrig accessory is Arca-Swiss compatible.)
 

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