K1ii Noise Reduction Customization

Florida Suse · May 8, 2018

Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread (from my comments in another thread) because everyone is confused about the latest testing on K1ii files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps

left eye · May 8, 2018

Florida Suse said:
Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread because everyone is confused about the latest testing on Ki11 files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps helps

Hi Suse,

as you are using DCU I suspect the NR you mention are those that have always been passed to DCU from your jpeg settings.

The issue many people are having is a another layer of NR that the K1-II is applying prior to this, via the new 'accelerator' in the K1-II.

1. Accelerator NR, applied in-camera prior to saving the file as a raw, this as far as we currently know cannot be turned off.

2. Development software / DCU, NR applied when processing the raw, this can be turned off (or set to minimum). The amount of NR upon opening a raw in DCU will respect the jpeg settings you use in-camera as a starting point, though can be changed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, ....if the NR control you are referring to, does also affect the accelerator NR - this would be big news.

Florida Suse · May 8, 2018

left eye said:
Florida Suse said:

Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread because everyone is confused about the latest testing on Ki11 files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps helps

Click to expand...

Hi Suse,

as you are using DCU I suspect the NR you mention are those that have always been passed to DCU from your jpeg settings.

The issue many people are having is a another layer of NR that the K1-II is applying prior to this, via the new 'accelerator' in the K1-II.

1. Accelerator NR, applied in-camera prior to saving the file as a raw, this as far as we currently know cannot be turned off.

2. Development software / DCU, NR applied when processing the raw, this can be turned off (or set to minimum). The amount of NR upon opening a raw in DCU will respect the jpeg settings you use in-camera as a starting point, though can be changed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, ....if the NR control you are referring to, does also affect the accelerator NR - this would be big news.

I don't know but I think off means off, that's why you are also given a choice of high, medium, low and custom. But someone else that knows how to look at the raw file on a much deeper level can check that and see.

On k5 files I have turned it off as a curiosity and the files looked ugly (in my humble opinion) that's probably why it's turned on by default but we are given the choice to make it how we want

Jon Schick · May 8, 2018

Florida Suse said:
left eye said:

Florida Suse said:

Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread because everyone is confused about the latest testing on Ki11 files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps helps

Click to expand...

Hi Suse,

as you are using DCU I suspect the NR you mention are those that have always been passed to DCU from your jpeg settings.

The issue many people are having is a another layer of NR that the K1-II is applying prior to this, via the new 'accelerator' in the K1-II.

1. Accelerator NR, applied in-camera prior to saving the file as a raw, this as far as we currently know cannot be turned off.

2. Development software / DCU, NR applied when processing the raw, this can be turned off (or set to minimum). The amount of NR upon opening a raw in DCU will respect the jpeg settings you use in-camera as a starting point, though can be changed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, ....if the NR control you are referring to, does also affect the accelerator NR - this would be big news.

Click to expand...

I don't know but I think off means off, that's why you are also given a choice of high, medium, low and custom. But someone else that knows how to look at the raw file on a much deeper level can check that and see.

On k5 files I have turned it off as a curiosity and the files looked ugly (in my humble opinion) that's probably why it's turned on by default but we are given the choice to make it how we want

Sadly I don't think this is the case for the K1ii.

DPR have mentioned in their conclusion that they've reached out to Pentax suggesting a firmware update could perhaps change the situation. However it looks like the new accelerator applies some NR to the raw image which cannot be turned off currently. The options in the camera menu refer to a second stage of processing - after that non negotiable accelerator related piece - using the existing processor carried over from the K-1.

I imagine that people upgrading from the K-1 who choose to use in camera (or PP) NR before may want to turn that down a notch or two now. Those upgrading who preferred not to apply any NR previously may need to think carefully about whether to stick with what they've got... That said, I don't have either body but suspect they're both capable of excellent image quality for all except the most dedicated pixel peeper.

robgendreau · May 8, 2018

Jon Schick said:
Florida Suse said:

left eye said:

Florida Suse said:

Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread because everyone is confused about the latest testing on Ki11 files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps helps

Click to expand...

Hi Suse,

as you are using DCU I suspect the NR you mention are those that have always been passed to DCU from your jpeg settings.

The issue many people are having is a another layer of NR that the K1-II is applying prior to this, via the new 'accelerator' in the K1-II.

1. Accelerator NR, applied in-camera prior to saving the file as a raw, this as far as we currently know cannot be turned off.

2. Development software / DCU, NR applied when processing the raw, this can be turned off (or set to minimum). The amount of NR upon opening a raw in DCU will respect the jpeg settings you use in-camera as a starting point, though can be changed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, ....if the NR control you are referring to, does also affect the accelerator NR - this would be big news.

Click to expand...

I don't know but I think off means off, that's why you are also given a choice of high, medium, low and custom. But someone else that knows how to look at the raw file on a much deeper level can check that and see.

On k5 files I have turned it off as a curiosity and the files looked ugly (in my humble opinion) that's probably why it's turned on by default but we are given the choice to make it how we want

Click to expand...

Sadly I don't think this is the case for the K1ii.

DPR have mentioned in their conclusion that they've reached out to Pentax suggesting a firmware update could perhaps change the situation. However it looks like the new accelerator applies some NR to the raw image which cannot be turned off currently. The options in the camera menu refer to a second stage of processing - after that non negotiable accelerator related piece - using the existing processor carried over from the K-1.

I imagine that people upgrading from the K-1 who choose to use in camera (or PP) NR before may want to turn that down a notch or two now. Those upgrading who preferred not to apply any NR previously may need to think carefully about whether to stick with what they've got... That said, I don't have either body but suspect they're both capable of excellent image quality for all except the most dedicated pixel peeper.

Florida Suse · May 8, 2018

robgendreau said:
Jon Schick said:

Florida Suse said:

left eye said:

Florida Suse said:

Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread because everyone is confused about the latest testing on Ki11 files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps helps

Click to expand...

Hi Suse,

as you are using DCU I suspect the NR you mention are those that have always been passed to DCU from your jpeg settings.

The issue many people are having is a another layer of NR that the K1-II is applying prior to this, via the new 'accelerator' in the K1-II.

1. Accelerator NR, applied in-camera prior to saving the file as a raw, this as far as we currently know cannot be turned off.

2. Development software / DCU, NR applied when processing the raw, this can be turned off (or set to minimum). The amount of NR upon opening a raw in DCU will respect the jpeg settings you use in-camera as a starting point, though can be changed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, ....if the NR control you are referring to, does also affect the accelerator NR - this would be big news.

Click to expand...

I don't know but I think off means off, that's why you are also given a choice of high, medium, low and custom. But someone else that knows how to look at the raw file on a much deeper level can check that and see.

On k5 files I have turned it off as a curiosity and the files looked ugly (in my humble opinion) that's probably why it's turned on by default but we are given the choice to make it how we want

Click to expand...

Sadly I don't think this is the case for the K1ii.

DPR have mentioned in their conclusion that they've reached out to Pentax suggesting a firmware update could perhaps change the situation. However it looks like the new accelerator applies some NR to the raw image which cannot be turned off currently. The options in the camera menu refer to a second stage of processing - after that non negotiable accelerator related piece - using the existing processor carried over from the K-1.

I imagine that people upgrading from the K-1 who choose to use in camera (or PP) NR before may want to turn that down a notch or two now. Those upgrading who preferred not to apply any NR previously may need to think carefully about whether to stick with what they've got... That said, I don't have either body but suspect they're both capable of excellent image quality for all except the most dedicated pixel peeper.

--
http://thephotographersblock.wordpress.com
http://jonschick.smugmug.com/

Click to expand...

I agree. The same high ISO NR settings can be found in the menu to process in-camera RAW to JPEG. It's a post-shot thing.

There are other settings in the camera menus that apply only to jpegs, like WB. Or I think the highlight correction.

On a sparkler exit photo shot with my k5 at a high iso, I turned off all of the noise reduction applied by the camera with the pentax dcu on a raw file and all of the applied noise reduction came out. I have assume the same thing happens with a k1 file? I believe the ability to do it should still be possible

robgendreau said:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums...phy/359994-high-iso-noise-removal-camera.html

--
“Art is not what you see, but what you make others see.”
— Edgar Degas

Rishi Sanyal · May 8, 2018

left eye said:
Florida Suse said:

Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread because everyone is confused about the latest testing on Ki11 files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps helps

Click to expand...

Hi Suse,

as you are using DCU I suspect the NR you mention are those that have always been passed to DCU from your jpeg settings.

The issue many people are having is a another layer of NR that the K1-II is applying prior to this, via the new 'accelerator' in the K1-II.

1. Accelerator NR, applied in-camera prior to saving the file as a raw, this as far as we currently know cannot be turned off.

2. Development software / DCU, NR applied when processing the raw, this can be turned off (or set to minimum). The amount of NR upon opening a raw in DCU will respect the jpeg settings you use in-camera as a starting point, though can be changed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, ....if the NR control you are referring to, does also affect the accelerator NR - this would be big news.

No, that setting does not affect the Raws. NR is always being applied to Raws. If that setting turned off Raw NR, we'd look pretty silly contacting Pentax asking for a firmware update to disable Raw NR.

-Rishi

left eye · May 8, 2018

Rishi Sanyal said:
left eye said:

Florida Suse said:

Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread because everyone is confused about the latest testing on Ki11 files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps helps

Click to expand...

Hi Suse,

as you are using DCU I suspect the NR you mention are those that have always been passed to DCU from your jpeg settings.

The issue many people are having is a another layer of NR that the K1-II is applying prior to this, via the new 'accelerator' in the K1-II.

1. Accelerator NR, applied in-camera prior to saving the file as a raw, this as far as we currently know cannot be turned off.

2. Development software / DCU, NR applied when processing the raw, this can be turned off (or set to minimum). The amount of NR upon opening a raw in DCU will respect the jpeg settings you use in-camera as a starting point, though can be changed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, ....if the NR control you are referring to, does also affect the accelerator NR - this would be big news.

Click to expand...

No, that setting does not affect the Raws. NR is always being applied to Raws. If that setting turned off Raw NR, we'd look pretty silly contacting Pentax asking for a firmware update to disable Raw NR.

-Rishi

ha! - yes,

anyway we always presumed you had a hot-line to camera manufacturers, glad you have,

from what I read they did pick up the phone - and they said no. Not even a maybe.

Rishi Sanyal · May 8, 2018

left eye said:
Rishi Sanyal said:

left eye said:

Florida Suse said:

Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread because everyone is confused about the latest testing on Ki11 files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps helps

Click to expand...

Hi Suse,

as you are using DCU I suspect the NR you mention are those that have always been passed to DCU from your jpeg settings.

The issue many people are having is a another layer of NR that the K1-II is applying prior to this, via the new 'accelerator' in the K1-II.

1. Accelerator NR, applied in-camera prior to saving the file as a raw, this as far as we currently know cannot be turned off.

2. Development software / DCU, NR applied when processing the raw, this can be turned off (or set to minimum). The amount of NR upon opening a raw in DCU will respect the jpeg settings you use in-camera as a starting point, though can be changed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, ....if the NR control you are referring to, does also affect the accelerator NR - this would be big news.

Click to expand...

No, that setting does not affect the Raws. NR is always being applied to Raws. If that setting turned off Raw NR, we'd look pretty silly contacting Pentax asking for a firmware update to disable Raw NR.

-Rishi

Click to expand...

ha! - yes,

anyway we always presumed you had a hot-line to camera manufacturers, glad you have,

from what I read they did pick up the phone - and they said no. Not even a maybe.

'No' as in they won't issue a firmware update?

On a related note, it amazes me that people think we wouldn't try obvious things like 'turn NR off' or 'turn Face Detection on' when testing Face Detection AF. If that's the level of confidence one has in us as reviewers, I really am left wondering: 'why read our reviews at all?'.

Tim Zhou · May 8, 2018

Rishi Sanyal said:
If that's the level of confidence one has in us as reviewers, I really am left wondering: 'why read our reviews at all?'.

It is really not about the confidence in dpreview, more related to the confusion and even shock why Ricoh/Pentax would make such decision. Clarifications are always nice from the reviewers. Thanks for the hard work, hopefully Ricoh/Pentax will respond to this quickly.

Florida Suse · May 8, 2018

Yes, thanks so much for the hard work that you all do!

I'm sorry I might have got everyone's hopes up high, I'm not the most knowledgeable and I really thought this could be done, I actually thought I had done this on a few occasions in dcu, hated it and never did it again.

Maybe Pentax hears everyone, I don't think it should be a big deal at all to get an update that programs and gives the ability right in that menu selection to just turn it off, why not? If someone doesn't want it, it should be available to turn off at will.

This seems to be a small enough thing pentax could do to make a lot of people happy. We maybe just need to be vocal, they can't change what they don't know

left eye · May 8, 2018

Rishi Sanyal said:
left eye said:

Rishi Sanyal said:

left eye said:

Florida Suse said:

Hey all,

I was asked to start this thread because everyone is confused about the latest testing on Ki11 files as it pertains to noise reduction .

Noise reduction can be turned off in menu. Go to menu, 2nd tab, last line - noise reduction, you can select high , medium, low, OFF, or 'customize' the k1 then applies this setting to raw and jpg files.

You can also do this in the pentax dcu, there are three sliders for the three different types of noise corrections. You can increase them or turn them off or anything in between.

Hopes this helps helps

Click to expand...

Hi Suse,

as you are using DCU I suspect the NR you mention are those that have always been passed to DCU from your jpeg settings.

The issue many people are having is a another layer of NR that the K1-II is applying prior to this, via the new 'accelerator' in the K1-II.

1. Accelerator NR, applied in-camera prior to saving the file as a raw, this as far as we currently know cannot be turned off.

2. Development software / DCU, NR applied when processing the raw, this can be turned off (or set to minimum). The amount of NR upon opening a raw in DCU will respect the jpeg settings you use in-camera as a starting point, though can be changed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, ....if the NR control you are referring to, does also affect the accelerator NR - this would be big news.

Click to expand...

No, that setting does not affect the Raws. NR is always being applied to Raws. If that setting turned off Raw NR, we'd look pretty silly contacting Pentax asking for a firmware update to disable Raw NR.

-Rishi

Click to expand...

ha! - yes,

anyway we always presumed you had a hot-line to camera manufacturers, glad you have,

from what I read they did pick up the phone - and they said no. Not even a maybe.

Click to expand...

'No' as in they won't issue a firmware update?

On a related note, it amazes me that people think we wouldn't try obvious things like 'turn NR off' or 'turn Face Detection on' when testing Face Detection AF. If that's the level of confidence one has in us as reviewers, I really am left wondering: 'why read our reviews at all?'.

...on the whole, I think your reviews are the most valuable on the net, and along with Jim and Bill, etc, who provide the next level in.

& if you have influence (with the manufacturers) I'm glad you can apply it.

Greyser · May 8, 2018

Rishi Sanyal said:
On a related note, it amazes me that people think we wouldn't try obvious things like 'turn NR off' or 'turn Face Detection on' when testing Face Detection AF. If that's the level of confidence one has in us as reviewers, I really am left wondering: 'why read our reviews at all?'.

We do appreciate your work, guys. Otherwise we won’y spend so much time on DPR every day

. However, using different print of the target (someone mentioned that in other thread), different lenses, slightly different camera settings seen in EXIF, etc. is a bit misleading.

First time in modern camera history customers have an option to upgrade to a newer model hardware. It is a big deal! Because of unusual matter of the situation when many supposed to upgrade and now are turned off by your study, would you please update it with direct K-1 vs. K-1 Mk. II identical side by side shoot out? It will be very helpful for all of us.

Thank you in advance,

Pentaxians (all hopefully)

BobORama · May 8, 2018

Florida Suse said:
I don't know but I think off means off, that's why you are also given a choice of high, medium, low and custom. But someone else that knows how to look at the raw file on a much deeper level can check that and see.

On k5 files I have turned it off as a curiosity and the files looked ugly (in my humble opinion) that's probably why it's turned on by default but we are given the choice to make it how we want

Off only means Off if the firmware developer makes it mean Off.

The definitive test is the FFT, as was done by bclaff . It shows the K-1 mk II is applying NR above 400 ISO.

Baking NR into the RAW is just bad, always. If Pentax thinks this is a "feature," it needs to be something we can enable / disable. DPR's unusal critique of camera bodies based on "green mode" + "relevant prime" (no matter how crappy) aside. Pentax bears the responsibility to understand the usual testing their products will not bounce like a dead cat.

Its also a DPR issue. Given their test images with a single mushy corner, they should not be making proclamations - even if right. Its like a surgeon cutting off the wrong leg and then concluding, "well that leg had cancer too"

They seem to conclude that even at base ISO the IQ is worse because of the NR. ( which we know does not kick in at ISO 100-400 based on the FFT findings, and with a test image that seems to not really be in focus based on looking at the corners )

So I assume the usual pattern will evolve. DPR reporting bad news early and good news late and eventually "after many loyal pentaxians bothered us we begrudgingly re-did the test and found the lens was dropped on its head and the NR = OFF setting now works because of a firmware update" circa 2020.

On the other hand, this is the price we pay for having all of this forums stuff, I guess.

-- Bob
http://bob-o-rama.smugmug.com -- Photos
http://www.vimeo.com/boborama/videos -- Videos
http://blog.trafficshaper.com -- Blog

DDWD10 · May 8, 2018

In a way this reminds me of the fallout that came with Fuji's JPEG tweaks on the X-Trans II sensor/processor that resulted in pronounced waxy, over-smoothed skin tones. I had both an X-Pro1 and X-T1 and the difference was very apparent. Sure, it was a JPEG-only issue, but JPEGs are traditionally a Fuji strong suit, and this move gave them a black eye until it was corrected with X-Trans III. Let's hope Pentax responds in kind...

--
https://www.youtube.com/user/derekaggs11

Tan68 · May 8, 2018

Rishi Sanyal said:
left eye said:

Rishi Sanyal said:

left eye said:

Florida Suse said:

...

Click to expand...

...

Click to expand...

No, that setting does not affect the Raws. ...

Click to expand...

....

Click to expand...

...

On a related note, it amazes me that people think we wouldn't try obvious things like 'turn NR off' or ...

If asked, I wouldn't be able to say with confidence that I believe DPR had tried this option in the menu...

This is not due to some fear of nefarious behavior but simply because I know DPR has long tested camera JPG output at manufacturer defaults and I would guess that includes in-camera noise reduction. My reasoning would be : if JPG is judged at default, why wouldn't RAW also be judged at default

I popped into this thread from a link in K-1 ii review comments. I agree these menu options are for JPG only.

Would be pretty cool if they worked for RAW :^)

Russell Evans · May 8, 2018

Rishi Sanyal said:
On a related note, it amazes me that people think we wouldn't try obvious things like 'turn NR off' or 'turn Face Detection on' when testing Face Detection AF.

Like the Pixel Shift article where the writer used software that didn't support the feature? I guess we shouldn't have questioned that either, right?

Rishi Sanyal said:
If that's the level of confidence one has in us as reviewers, I really am left wondering: 'why read our reviews at all?'.

I think it's called click bait? Someone posts crap to a web page that they know is going to create issues to generate traffic for monetary gain.

Thank you
Russell

Salik Tirmizi · May 9, 2018

Is this kind of issue present in K-5/K-3II or only newer bodies are exhibiting due to that Accelerator Chip?

Lyff · May 9, 2018

Salik Tirmizi said:
Is this kind of issue present in K-5/K-3II or only newer bodies are exhibiting due to that Accelerator Chip?

The Accelerator Chip is only in the K-70, KP and K-1 II.

The previous pentax bodies does have some light raw NR at higher ISO, I can see it on my K-3 at iso 12800.

Also note that the NR setting is a bit more complicated than it looks, if you set it to OFF your jpeg still have a bit of NR if you don't use the EXTRA sharpening setting.

Basically for NR:

default sharpening + NR OFF = fine sharpening + NR LOW = extra sharpening + NR MEDIUM

So if you want the lowest NR possible in your Jpegs use EXTRA sharpening.

howieb101 · May 9, 2018

Rishi Sanyal said:
If that's the level of confidence one has in us as reviewers, I really am left wondering: 'why read our reviews at all?'.

Well reading them and having confidence in them are two different things.

By the way, if the K1 is too heavy then why isn't the Nikon D850? The review goes overboard on the weight issue when compared to the Nikon D850 review. Do you understand why people think there is bias? A bit of consistency would be nice as well as being fair.

Also, why are two different lenses used and then no qualifications on differences made when we all know that lenses do make a difference, especially when you are making conclusions based on these same two different lenses?

Think about the above and you might understand why people might not have such a high level of confidence of the reviews.

K1ii Noise Reduction Customization

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