Reading mode: Light Dark

How long till Canon leapfrogs Nikon again?

Go to last post
S

SmilerGrogan

Senior Member
Messages
1,534
Solutions
2
Reaction score
726
Location
Magnetosphere, AQ
Has anyone figured out the scheduling of when Canon and Nikon trade dominance in the higher-end camera market?

To me it's an obvious example of an informal keiretsu, because over and over Canon comes out with a camera that blows away Nikon (like the 5DII for instance) and then after a year or two Nikon responds with a camera that torpedoes Canon (like the D3s or the D850).

Right now it's Canon's turn to release a camera that will leapfrog over the D850/D5; what I can't figure out is when to expect it. Will we see it in the next year? Or is 2019 more likely?
 
robblackett said:
caspianm said:
Love it or leave it. Waiting and hoping is waste of time and energy for any new model regarding improvements. Canon went the other way with 6II. And asking canon fans is a huge mistake. Some guy brag about Canon sale figures rather than their gears. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Sales figures don't matter to consumers - but they are an indication of what the market thinks about a product and since most of us aren't experts, or camera reviewers, then such things help us make a choice, or to justify our choice once we have made one.

Also if sales figures are good then that's an indication of the health of that company and conversely if bad.
Click to expand...
Presumably, folks that frequent this forum make up a market for Canon's high end cameras. Let's define high end as FF for the sake of argument. Total sales including that of APS-C and sub-APS-C will not indicate if and when Canon will ever leapfrog Nikon again in this particular market. Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?
 
J A C S said:
Rick Knepper said:
J A C S said:
Rick Knepper said:
Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?
Click to expand...
I do. This keeps them in the business and this helps me as well.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I've had a chance to think further about this statement. You didn't say how Canon staying in business helps you. Is this relative to leapfrogging Nikon or is it another benefit(s) you had in mind?

I too want Canon to stay in business and be profitable but also I want the company to be competitive tech-wise especially with their high end cameras.
J A C S said:
J A C S said:
The topic at hand is leapfrogging Nikon. Sales figures is a Red Herring.
Click to expand...
Well, ask Samsung. I am sure that their FF would have been great but it did not happen for market reasons.
Click to expand...
 
Rick Knepper said:
J A C S said:
Rick Knepper said:
J A C S said:
Rick Knepper said:
Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?
Click to expand...
I do. This keeps them in the business and this helps me as well.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I've had a chance to think further about this statement. You didn't say how Canon staying in business helps you. Is this relative to leapfrogging Nikon or is it another benefit(s) you had in mind?
Click to expand...
If their cropper sales go down, I believe that this will hurt the whole camera-lens business. Many FF users start with crop. Many of them buy EF lenses and flashes. Also, developing a new sensor benefits both crop and FF cameras and the cost is shared, same thing with AF modules, chips, etc.
 
SmilerGrogan said:
Has anyone figured out the scheduling of when Canon and Nikon trade dominance in the higher-end camera market?

To me it's an obvious example of an informal keiretsu, because over and over Canon comes out with a camera that blows away Nikon (like the 5DII for instance) and then after a year or two Nikon responds with a camera that torpedoes Canon (like the D3s or the D850).

Right now it's Canon's turn to release a camera that will leapfrog over the D850/D5; what I can't figure out is when to expect it. Will we see it in the next year? Or is 2019 more likely?
Click to expand...
1DX II has better low ISO DR, better video and higher FPS than D5. D5 has slightly better tracking. So, they are similar.

I don't think Canon will leapfrog D850 or they want to. Next 5D (5D V) is likely to have less than 40MP, similar FPS to D850, similar IQ, but better video (4K with new DPAF etc).

Canon is likely to continue with 4 yrs release cycle for both these models.
 
Good question, I left canon awhile back from the 6D & 5D3, loved the cameras, but wanted something newer so gave Nikon a go, had the D750 and D500 I must say the latter blew me away, it was better for me than the canons offering at the time. Don't get me wrong I love canon but at the movement Nikon with there D500, D5, and now D850 leaves Canons behind. I would like to see canon up there game, but happy to go the Nikon route in the future if nothing transpires.
 
You recently wrote you got rid of your Nikon because of the weight of it, do you expect them to get less heavy in future models ?

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

ASR45 said:
Good question, I left canon awhile back from the 6D & 5D3, loved the cameras, but wanted something newer so gave Nikon a go, had the D750 and D500 I must say the latter blew me away, it was better for me than the canons offering at the time. Don't get me wrong I love canon but at the movement Nikon with there D500, D5, and now D850 leaves Canons behind. I would like to see canon up there game, but happy to go the Nikon route in the future if nothing transpires.

--
Alan.
Great photography is about depth of feeling, not depth of field.
- Peter Adams
Believe in Karma.
Click to expand...
 
Yake said:
The D5 doesn't need leapfrogging. It has about the same dynamic range as the 6D.
Click to expand...
They might be relatively close in the charts at low ISOs, but what the charts don't tell you is how much banding noise the cameras have, and the D5 has a lot more of it. I would much sooner shoot ISO 1600 exposure from the ISO 100 setting with the 6D than the D5. Keep in mind, also, that the D5's DR at ISO 100 includes extra headroom over the 6D, so the noise "footroom" is actually that much less.

At ISOs up to 102K or so, however, with ETTR, The D5 will hold its own against the 6D. Going higher than that, the D5 no longer uses gain and the banding starts coming back strong as you climb toward ISO 3.28M, even with ETTR.
 
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
caspianm said:
Love it or leave it. Waiting and hoping is waste of time and energy for any new model regarding improvements. Canon went the other way with 6II. And asking canon fans is a huge mistake. Some guy brag about Canon sale figures rather than their gears. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Sales figures don't matter to consumers - but they are an indication of what the market thinks about a product and since most of us aren't experts, or camera reviewers, then such things help us make a choice, or to justify our choice once we have made one.

Also if sales figures are good then that's an indication of the health of that company and conversely if bad.
Click to expand...
Presumably, folks that frequent this forum make up a market for Canon's high end cameras. Let's define high end as FF for the sake of argument. Total sales including that of APS-C and sub-APS-C will not indicate if and when Canon will ever leapfrog Nikon again in this particular market. Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?
Click to expand...
 
1Dx4me said:
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
caspianm said:
Love it or leave it. Waiting and hoping is waste of time and energy for any new model regarding improvements. Canon went the other way with 6II. And asking canon fans is a huge mistake. Some guy brag about Canon sale figures rather than their gears. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Sales figures don't matter to consumers - but they are an indication of what the market thinks about a product and since most of us aren't experts, or camera reviewers, then such things help us make a choice, or to justify our choice once we have made one.

Also if sales figures are good then that's an indication of the health of that company and conversely if bad.
Click to expand...
Presumably, folks that frequent this forum make up a market for Canon's high end cameras. Let's define high end as FF for the sake of argument. Total sales including that of APS-C and sub-APS-C will not indicate if and when Canon will ever leapfrog Nikon again in this particular market. Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?

--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
Click to expand...
the way i interpret "leapfrog" is when canon came out with 1D for professionals and 5D cameras for serious enthusiasts years ago, which took nikon a couple years to catch up! is that possible today for ant camera company? very unlikely (as you have noted) but possible with small increment that can be caught up by others, quickly, as we see and notice nikon/canon (now you can throw sony in the mix, as well) see/saw game ;-) so, there is nothing i'd be worried about my recent investment in an expensive high end FF canon or nikon dslr and finding out that it has been "leapfrogged" by competition ;-) personally, i never paid attention to how many cameras canon or nikon sells or who has the dslr sales command in the market. i have purchased my gear based on which equipment (tools) can serve my purpose, best. happy zooming!
Click to expand...
I totally understand your argument "Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?" as for most customers it probably is totally irrelevant. But looking forward there is an definite impact in that most of Canon's camera volume comes from these 'croppers' and that revenue derived from them means the company has money to spend on the development of higher end products further up the chain such as FF and Pro EOS-1 models. Should the crop market (Rebel / APS-C), or whatever might replace those entry level DSLR models disappear, then without that revenue we could find that the pace of development slows considerably (wait for the inevitable snide replies at this point), or that remaining models get increasingly expensive. Probably too expensive for most of us. High volume helps keep prices down and enables continued investment on services that are of benefit to most of us, such as the back up service.

Secondly, dealers (both internet and bricks and motor) do care about sales figures and that affects the availability of what we would like to buy. A dealer's yearly revenue is derived from a simple formula which is margin per unit x the stock turnover for that unit per year. So the more times a dealer can turn over his stock the better, or in other words a wonderfully specced product with a high margin but which he only sells one unit in a period is a lot less attractive to most dealers than one with less margin but which sells repeatedly in that same period. In addition because he sells more bodies repeatedly, the chances are that he can sell more lenses, flashguns and accessories on the back of that and so they are available for us to buy without them having to be ordered in specially. Which generally means that they can be more competitively priced.

All basic retail marketing stuff but which perhaps some here don't realise but of course why should we if we're not in camera marketing or even retail?

So the market share is one measure of the performance of a company and indeed confidence in that company and it is one that Japanese companies care a considerable amount about, especially if they are in the volume business, which Canon is.
 
Last edited:
J A C S said:
Rick Knepper said:
J A C S said:
Rick Knepper said:
J A C S said:
Rick Knepper said:
Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?
Click to expand...
I do. This keeps them in the business and this helps me as well.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I've had a chance to think further about this statement. You didn't say how Canon staying in business helps you. Is this relative to leapfrogging Nikon or is it another benefit(s) you had in mind?
Click to expand...
If their cropper sales go down, I believe that this will hurt the whole camera-lens business. Many FF users start with crop. Many of them buy EF lenses and flashes. Also, developing a new sensor benefits both crop and FF cameras and the cost is shared, same thing with AF modules, chips, etc.
Click to expand...
Also, many FF shooters (like me) also shoot crop, for reasons of reach, or for a lighter weight camera option for traveling for instance.

Success in the whole camera ecosystem, plus hopefully some innovation one of these days, will only help all Canon users, full frame and crop alike.

Whether or not that helps Canon leapfrog Nikon remains to be seen.
 
Rick Knepper said:
The topic at hand is leapfrogging Nikon. Sales figures is a Red Herring.
Click to expand...
Why is sales figures a red herring? If a company can hold a dominant market share without "leapfrogging" their top competitors that may tell you something about the market and the company's strategy. In other words, relatively solid sales and even more importantly, healthy operating profit which Nikon has been lacking, tells us that Canon may not be "leapfrogging" Nikon in the near future.

--
Randy
 
Last edited:
rkodama1 said:
Occams Razor said:
The topic at hand is leapfrogging Nikon. Sales figures is a Red Herring.
Click to expand...
Why is sales figures a red herring?
Click to expand...
Based on the topic and the reasons given for citing the sales figures thus far, it is.

Do sales figures explain why did Toyota dropped the FJ Cruiser instead doing what it would take to compete with the Jeep?
Occams Razor said:
If a company can hold a dominant market share without "leapfrogging" their top competitors that may tell you something about the market and the company's strategy.
Click to expand...
The market is segmented. What segment of the market do you think most folks on this forum represent and care about the most?
Occams Razor said:
In other words, relatively solid sales and even more importantly, healthy operating profit which Nikon has been lacking, tells us that Canon may not be "leapfrogging" Nikon in the near future.
Click to expand...
So, your contention being since Canon is doing so well sales-wise selling entry level cameras on name recognition, they don't to need to compete with Nikon and Sony on cutting edge tech?

 
robblackett said:
1Dx4me said:
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
caspianm said:
Love it or leave it. Waiting and hoping is waste of time and energy for any new model regarding improvements. Canon went the other way with 6II. And asking canon fans is a huge mistake. Some guy brag about Canon sale figures rather than their gears. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Sales figures don't matter to consumers - but they are an indication of what the market thinks about a product and since most of us aren't experts, or camera reviewers, then such things help us make a choice, or to justify our choice once we have made one.

Also if sales figures are good then that's an indication of the health of that company and conversely if bad.
Click to expand...
Presumably, folks that frequent this forum make up a market for Canon's high end cameras. Let's define high end as FF for the sake of argument. Total sales including that of APS-C and sub-APS-C will not indicate if and when Canon will ever leapfrog Nikon again in this particular market. Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?

--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
Click to expand...
the way i interpret "leapfrog" is when canon came out with 1D for professionals and 5D cameras for serious enthusiasts years ago, which took nikon a couple years to catch up! is that possible today for ant camera company? very unlikely (as you have noted) but possible with small increment that can be caught up by others, quickly, as we see and notice nikon/canon (now you can throw sony in the mix, as well) see/saw game ;-) so, there is nothing i'd be worried about my recent investment in an expensive high end FF canon or nikon dslr and finding out that it has been "leapfrogged" by competition ;-) personally, i never paid attention to how many cameras canon or nikon sells or who has the dslr sales command in the market. i have purchased my gear based on which equipment (tools) can serve my purpose, best. happy zooming!
Click to expand...
I totally understand your argument "Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?" as for most customers it probably is totally irrelevant. But looking forward there is an definite impact in that most of Canon's camera volume comes from these 'croppers' and that revenue derived from them means the company has money to spend on the development of higher end products further up the chain such as FF and Pro EOS-1 models.
Click to expand...
While you are trying to view the situation from a top down POV, it is mere speculation at best i.e. none of us know what is driving Canon execs. We should stick to the evidence at hand.

Canon has had plenty of money for a long time. Canon lost the flagship sensor battle in 2008 when Nikon released the D3x with its first Sony high DR chip and superior resolution and Canon hasn't regained number one tech-wise since. It took Nikon longer to snatch the affordable FF category from Canon but did so in 2012 with the D800/E, a technically superior machine to the 5D3. In the meantime, Sony created a whole new segment in FF cameras in 2013 catching both Canon and Nikon sitting on their laurels.

I think the bottom line for Canon is they can't compete heads up on tech. They've had 9-10 years to answer the D3x and haven't. Canon may stand a better chance of competing on AF but remains to be seen. If Canon can continue to sell recycled tech to fanboys, heck, why not? Bump those sales figures higher, eh?
Member said:
Should the crop market (Rebel / APS-C), or whatever might replace those entry level DSLR models disappear, then without that revenue we could find that the pace of development slows considerably (wait for the inevitable snide replies at this point), or that remaining models get increasingly expensive. Probably too expensive for most of us. High volume helps keep prices down and enables spend on services that are of benefit to most of us such as the back up service.

Secondly, dealers (both internet and bricks and motor) do care about sales figures and that affects the availability of what we would like to buy. A dealer's yearly revenue is derived from a simple formula which is margin per unit x the stock turnover for that unit per year. So the more times a dealer can turn over his stock the better, or in other words a wonderfully specced product with a high margin but which he only sells one unit in a period is a lot less attractive to most dealers than one with less margin but which sells repeatedly in that same period. In addition because he sells more bodies repeatedly, the chances are that he can sell more lenses, flashguns and accessories on the back of that and so they are available for us to buy without them having to be ordered in specially. Which generally means that they are more competitively priced.

All basic retail stuff but which perhaps some here don't realise but why should we if we're not in camera marketing or even retail?

So the market share is one measure of the performance of a company and indeed confidence in that company and it is one that Japanese companies care a considerable amount about, especially if they are in the volume business, which Canon is.
Click to expand...
--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
 
Last edited:
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
1Dx4me said:
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
caspianm said:
Love it or leave it. Waiting and hoping is waste of time and energy for any new model regarding improvements. Canon went the other way with 6II. And asking canon fans is a huge mistake. Some guy brag about Canon sale figures rather than their gears. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Sales figures don't matter to consumers - but they are an indication of what the market thinks about a product and since most of us aren't experts, or camera reviewers, then such things help us make a choice, or to justify our choice once we have made one.

Also if sales figures are good then that's an indication of the health of that company and conversely if bad.
Click to expand...
Presumably, folks that frequent this forum make up a market for Canon's high end cameras. Let's define high end as FF for the sake of argument. Total sales including that of APS-C and sub-APS-C will not indicate if and when Canon will ever leapfrog Nikon again in this particular market. Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?

--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
Click to expand...
the way i interpret "leapfrog" is when canon came out with 1D for professionals and 5D cameras for serious enthusiasts years ago, which took nikon a couple years to catch up! is that possible today for ant camera company? very unlikely (as you have noted) but possible with small increment that can be caught up by others, quickly, as we see and notice nikon/canon (now you can throw sony in the mix, as well) see/saw game ;-) so, there is nothing i'd be worried about my recent investment in an expensive high end FF canon or nikon dslr and finding out that it has been "leapfrogged" by competition ;-) personally, i never paid attention to how many cameras canon or nikon sells or who has the dslr sales command in the market. i have purchased my gear based on which equipment (tools) can serve my purpose, best. happy zooming!
Click to expand...
I totally understand your argument "Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?" as for most customers it probably is totally irrelevant. But looking forward there is an definite impact in that most of Canon's camera volume comes from these 'croppers' and that revenue derived from them means the company has money to spend on the development of higher end products further up the chain such as FF and Pro EOS-1 models.
Click to expand...
While you are trying to view the situation from a top down POV, it is mere speculation at best i.e. none of us know what is driving Canon execs. We should stick to the evidence at hand.
Click to expand...
Agreed but perhaps many years experience of the company and the market means that it is not quite "mere speculation"?
Rick Knepper said:
Canon has had plenty of money for a long time. Canon lost the flagship sensor battle in 2008 when Nikon released the D3x with its first Sony high DR chip and superior resolution and Canon hasn't regained number one tech-wise since. It took Nikon longer to snatch the affordable FF category from Canon but did so in 2012 with the D800/E, a technically superior machine to the 5D3. In the meantime, Sony created a whole new segment in FF cameras in 2013 catching both Canon and Nikon sitting on their laurels.
Click to expand...
Not sitting on their laurels on a negative sense but definitely waiting to see how the mirrorless market pans out. You do not have to be a pathfinder in a market where you are dominant but that doesn't mean that things aren't happening in the background. There's only 10% of the iceberg you can see but the 90% underneath is also interesting and possibly more significant.
Rick Knepper said:
I think the bottom line for Canon is they can't compete heads up on tech. They've had 9-10 years to answer the D3x and haven't. Canon may stand a better chance of competing on AF but remains to be seen. If Canon can continue to sell recycled tech to fanboys, heck, why not? Bump those sales figures higher, eh?
Click to expand...
I believe Canon can certainly compete on tech if they really want to but so far they have chosen not to because at this stage it offers no commercial advantage to them.

Of course some of us will hate that and that's understandable. It's the tension between consumers who just want stuff and a company which is doing exactly what it thinks best for its future.
Rick Knepper said:
Rick Knepper said:
Should the crop market (Rebel / APS-C), or whatever might replace those entry level DSLR models disappear, then without that revenue we could find that the pace of development slows considerably (wait for the inevitable snide replies at this point), or that remaining models get increasingly expensive. Probably too expensive for most of us. High volume helps keep prices down and enables spend on services that are of benefit to most of us such as the back up service.

Secondly, dealers (both internet and bricks and motor) do care about sales figures and that affects the availability of what we would like to buy. A dealer's yearly revenue is derived from a simple formula which is margin per unit x the stock turnover for that unit per year. So the more times a dealer can turn over his stock the better, or in other words a wonderfully specced product with a high margin but which he only sells one unit in a period is a lot less attractive to most dealers than one with less margin but which sells repeatedly in that same period. In addition because he sells more bodies repeatedly, the chances are that he can sell more lenses, flashguns and accessories on the back of that and so they are available for us to buy without them having to be ordered in specially. Which generally means that they are more competitively priced.

All basic retail stuff but which perhaps some here don't realise but why should we if we're not in camera marketing or even retail?

So the market share is one measure of the performance of a company and indeed confidence in that company and it is one that Japanese companies care a considerable amount about, especially if they are in the volume business, which Canon is.
Click to expand...
--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
Click to expand...
 
robblackett said:
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
1Dx4me said:
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
caspianm said:
Love it or leave it. Waiting and hoping is waste of time and energy for any new model regarding improvements. Canon went the other way with 6II. And asking canon fans is a huge mistake. Some guy brag about Canon sale figures rather than their gears. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Sales figures don't matter to consumers - but they are an indication of what the market thinks about a product and since most of us aren't experts, or camera reviewers, then such things help us make a choice, or to justify our choice once we have made one.

Also if sales figures are good then that's an indication of the health of that company and conversely if bad.
Click to expand...
Presumably, folks that frequent this forum make up a market for Canon's high end cameras. Let's define high end as FF for the sake of argument. Total sales including that of APS-C and sub-APS-C will not indicate if and when Canon will ever leapfrog Nikon again in this particular market. Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
1Dx4me said:
Rick Knepper said:
robblackett said:
caspianm said:
Love it or leave it. Waiting and hoping is waste of time and energy for any new model regarding improvements. Canon went the other way with 6II. And asking canon fans is a huge mistake. Some guy brag about Canon sale figures rather than their gears. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Sales figures don't matter to consumers - but they are an indication of what the market thinks about a product and since most of us aren't experts, or camera reviewers, then such things help us make a choice, or to justify our choice once we have made one.

Also if sales figures are good then that's an indication of the health of that company and conversely if bad.
Click to expand...
Presumably, folks that frequent this forum make up a market for Canon's high end cameras. Let's define high end as FF for the sake of argument. Total sales including that of APS-C and sub-APS-C will not indicate if and when Canon will ever leapfrog Nikon again in this particular market. Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?

--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
Click to expand...
the way i interpret "leapfrog" is when canon came out with 1D for professionals and 5D cameras for serious enthusiasts years ago, which took nikon a couple years to catch up! is that possible today for ant camera company? very unlikely (as you have noted) but possible with small increment that can be caught up by others, quickly, as we see and notice nikon/canon (now you can throw sony in the mix, as well) see/saw game ;-) so, there is nothing i'd be worried about my recent investment in an expensive high end FF canon or nikon dslr and finding out that it has been "leapfrogged" by competition ;-) personally, i never paid attention to how many cameras canon or nikon sells or who has the dslr sales command in the market. i have purchased my gear based on which equipment (tools) can serve my purpose, best. happy zooming!
Click to expand...
I totally understand your argument "Who cares on this forum if Canon sells lots of croppers?" as for most customers it probably is totally irrelevant. But looking forward there is an definite impact in that most of Canon's camera volume comes from these 'croppers' and that revenue derived from them means the company has money to spend on the development of higher end products further up the chain such as FF and Pro EOS-1 models.
Click to expand...
While you are trying to view the situation from a top down POV, it is mere speculation at best i.e. none of us know what is driving Canon execs. We should stick to the evidence at hand.
Click to expand...
Agreed but perhaps many years experience of the company and the market means that it is not quite "mere speculation"?
Click to expand...
How many years of experience does it take to be able to forecast with accuracy.
Click to expand...
Do you means years of experience with the company, years of experience of camera manufacture, or years of experience with a particular new segment of the market, i.e. mirrorless?
Rick Knepper said:
Rick Knepper said:
Rick Knepper said:
Canon has had plenty of money for a long time. Canon lost the flagship sensor battle in 2008 when Nikon released the D3x with its first Sony high DR chip and superior resolution and Canon hasn't regained number one tech-wise since. It took Nikon longer to snatch the affordable FF category from Canon but did so in 2012 with the D800/E, a technically superior machine to the 5D3. In the meantime, Sony created a whole new segment in FF cameras in 2013 catching both Canon and Nikon sitting on their laurels.
Click to expand...
Not sitting on their laurels on a negative sense but definitely waiting to see how the mirrorless market pans out. You do not have to be a pathfinder in a market where you are dominant but that doesn't mean that things aren't happening in the background. There's only 10% of the iceberg you can see but the 90% underneath is also interesting and possibly more significant.
Click to expand...
This will be wonderful if this is what is happening. However, for consumers of Canon's high end products wishing for mirrorless in the near term, Canon's recent interview in the Nikkei Asian Review indicates Canon is still merely pondering the high end market.
Click to expand...
Yes I understand that but I think it would be dangerous to assume that any interview Canon gives is fully indicative of totally what they are up to. In my experience such interviews have always been quite cagey and given away very little and I don't see why that should have suddenly changed.
Rick Knepper said:
Rick Knepper said:
Rick Knepper said:
I think the bottom line for Canon is they can't compete heads up on tech. They've had 9-10 years to answer the D3x and haven't. Canon may stand a better chance of competing on AF but remains to be seen. If Canon can continue to sell recycled tech to fanboys, heck, why not? Bump those sales figures higher, eh?
Click to expand...
I believe Canon can certainly compete on tech if they really want to but so far they have chosen not to because at this stage it offers no commercial advantage to them.

Of course some of us will hate that and that's understandable. It's the tension between consumers who just want stuff and a company which is doing exactly what it thinks best for its future.
Click to expand...
I agree. That's why many pros and advanced amateurs are moving to other brands or complementing their kits with other brands.
Click to expand...
Not that many pros have changed to be fair. Of course some amateurs have and some have gone the other way too. If you look at the sales figures (boring I know) there is actually no indication that Canon are losing sales to Sony. Of course you'd have to split out sales data by model to see the real picture but most of us are not in a position to do that. Relying on forum chatter is not terribly accurate though, even if we might love it.
Rick Knepper said:
I am one of the latter and Canon should never have let me use a legitimate mirrorless product by another brand. :)
Click to expand...
Why? If by bringing out something that had appealed to a small segment meant that a much larger market could then have became confused and overall sales then went down, would that make sense? As I've said before, it's a question of timing. When it is the right time to switch from one market to a new one without totally destroying a healthy existing market unnecessarily is what needs to be planned very carefully. Sometimes you have to accept collateral damage, even if it is reluctantly and to Rick Knepper.
Rick Knepper said:
You know, history is full of proof: just because a corporation makes a decision doesn't mean it is the right decision.
Click to expand...
I can't argue with that. Other than to suggest that Canon's track history is such that if I had to bet on somebody knowing what they are doing that it might be them.
Rick Knepper said:
Rick Knepper said:
Rick Knepper said:
Rick Knepper said:
Should the crop market (Rebel / APS-C), or whatever might replace those entry level DSLR models disappear, then without that revenue we could find that the pace of development slows considerably (wait for the inevitable snide replies at this point), or that remaining models get increasingly expensive. Probably too expensive for most of us. High volume helps keep prices down and enables spend on services that are of benefit to most of us such as the back up service.

Secondly, dealers (both internet and bricks and motor) do care about sales figures and that affects the availability of what we would like to buy. A dealer's yearly revenue is derived from a simple formula which is margin per unit x the stock turnover for that unit per year. So the more times a dealer can turn over his stock the better, or in other words a wonderfully specced product with a high margin but which he only sells one unit in a period is a lot less attractive to most dealers than one with less margin but which sells repeatedly in that same period. In addition because he sells more bodies repeatedly, the chances are that he can sell more lenses, flashguns and accessories on the back of that and so they are available for us to buy without them having to be ordered in specially. Which generally means that they are more competitively priced.

All basic retail stuff but which perhaps some here don't realise but why should we if we're not in camera marketing or even retail?

So the market share is one measure of the performance of a company and indeed confidence in that company and it is one that Japanese companies care a considerable amount about, especially if they are in the volume business, which Canon is.
Click to expand...
--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top