Steven Noyes
Forum Pro
Off by 10 months and 5 MP and $3000 or so.
Steven
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New and Updated!!!
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Steven
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New and Updated!!!
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Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
New 2D to replace 1D
- Thread starter InVision
- Start date
Larry H. Smith
Veteran Member
Reading this will help you understand how Canon feels about the 1- series name:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=5981785
Larry
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=5981785
Larry
If a 1d replacment were on a 1.3x crop, that says to me a lower
class camera, since the true noise is proportional to the imager
size (not the pixel size) given a level of technology. I wouldn't
think that means the "2d" would have to have a lower body, it just
would yield the "top of the line" status to the 1Ds. That doesn't
really mean anything anyway. I don't think too many PJ's would
care that their camera isn't named "top of the line."
I don't know. I certainly don't believe this original poster's
story, since this was his first post, but it doesn't sound too
crazy. I know some people would say people would want the "1"
status on their camera just because of what it implies, but in the
same manner, perhaps Canon wants to make a statement about how
glorious the 1Ds is.
Who knows, I guess I'll shut up and wait for Canon to make a move.
jason
Now, can could be developing a 1series that is both high res and
high FPS to replace the 1Ds in 1.5 to 2 years--- that would be the
only reason to come out with a 2D.
I much prefer a 1Dn or 1Dv and a 3D to keep thing in sync with
there current terminology!!!
Just my very little 2 cents worth or maybe it's a dime now.
--It'd be silly to make a cheaper camera with the 8FPS where the
weather sealing IS REALLY NEEDED, not in a studio camera like the
1DS..
PJs need a tough reliable fast shooting weatherproof tool, Only the
1-series body can offer that, not some mag alloy version of the
EOS-3 (which is a Semi Pro camera series anyway and always was
since the EOS10 & 5)..
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
Troponin (Trop)
'No Limitation is Limitation'
and I still can't spell worth a dang!
AlaLonga
Member
Ken Phillips
Forum Pro
... but couldn't it be even faster? It doesn't have to be WA ... some other way would work. But whatever, they seem to have done it ONLY to the 1D. I've used several of the other Canon DSLRs and it's a pain to wait. And look how bad it is on the 1Ds! (And they even slowed the 10D down relative to the D60!)
So ... some system that can write to the card as fast as the card can take it would be fine. I used WA as a generic term, I guess!
Ken
Wanted: Beautiful young woman to be my wife. Must be obsessive-compulsive about housekeeping.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
So ... some system that can write to the card as fast as the card can take it would be fine. I used WA as a generic term, I guess!
Ken
--
Wanted: Beautiful young woman to be my wife. Must be obsessive-compulsive about housekeeping.
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
Andrew D. Heilman
Active member
Ok, gotcha. I'm kin to your idea. Certainly the faster the camera will write the better. I'll also admit my complete unfamiliarity with the write speed of the 10D and 1Ds, though I assumed the 1Ds was comprable to the 1D (just more info to write, therefore longer write times per photo).
I think if you see it on a Canon camera it won't be "WA Technology." Canon is known for not being fond of using other companies technologies and having to pay them for the use (look at Canon making their own CMOS primarily becuase they didn't want to rely on someone else - SONY - for the CCD chips).
Andrew
I think if you see it on a Canon camera it won't be "WA Technology." Canon is known for not being fond of using other companies technologies and having to pay them for the use (look at Canon making their own CMOS primarily becuase they didn't want to rely on someone else - SONY - for the CCD chips).
Andrew D. Heilman
Active member
ABSOLUTELY. That's why, despite all its "firsts," the EOS-3 was never a "pro" camera. The 1v had everything the 3 did and improved on nothing other than body sealings and FPS (which by the way remember that the EOS-3 was actually faster than the 1nRS - the fastest Canon camera at that time in terms of FPS, but pros kept their 1nRS over the 3 becuase of ONE thing: DURRABILITY!
So I whole-heartedly agree with Adam-T on this one!
Andrew
So I whole-heartedly agree with Adam-T on this one!
Adam digital has complicated things. With film there is only theThe "1" Part is nothing to do with the Imager, it's to do with the
BODY and the projected purchaser, a 1-series body is designed to be
used in all conditions day in, day out and that is exactly what the
PJ needs, also needs a fast responsive camera..
I'd not like to do heavy PJ work with a metal bodied EOS-3, it
doesn't have the strength or the weather sealing - and the 1-series
body IMO is overkill for the usual purpose a 1DS is used for, in
fact an EOS3 body (even in it's existing Plastic shell) would be
more than good enough for studio and fair weather work - it's the
PJ camera which needs to be tough, it's not an "Ego" thing being a
1-series, it's a Necessity for the camera which needs it regardless
irrelevant stuff like FOV crop or imager size
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
35mm format, with digital we have three different sensor sizes made
by Canon and really they represent three different market segments.
The 1D came out first and was based on the 1V, however Canon have
painted themselves into a corner since the 1Ds came out, they now
have two totally different cameras (in function) but both based on
1V, and sharing the 1D label. Canon might want to get away from
this situation and by releasing a 2D we may find the cameras
diverge in form and function. That is a 2D may break new ground and
start looking different to 1 series camera. The Nikon D2H is the
first totally new design built from the ground up with digital in
mind. You may find Canon realizes it's time to shed its film body
ancestry. Doesn't imply the 2D will be in any way inferior, just
quite different. In a few years 2 will become synonomous with
excellence.
Andrew D. Heilman
Active member
I need to follow up on my post, the EOS-3 was the fastest FPS in Servo, not one shot mode. And I rarely have the opportunity to shoot sports (where you need the FPS) on one-shot. the only example that comes to mind is of a baseball batter where I can rip 2 frames hoping one is ball-on-bat.
So I whole-heartedly agree with Adam-T on this one!
Andrew
Adam digital has complicated things. With film there is only theThe "1" Part is nothing to do with the Imager, it's to do with the
BODY and the projected purchaser, a 1-series body is designed to be
used in all conditions day in, day out and that is exactly what the
PJ needs, also needs a fast responsive camera..
I'd not like to do heavy PJ work with a metal bodied EOS-3, it
doesn't have the strength or the weather sealing - and the 1-series
body IMO is overkill for the usual purpose a 1DS is used for, in
fact an EOS3 body (even in it's existing Plastic shell) would be
more than good enough for studio and fair weather work - it's the
PJ camera which needs to be tough, it's not an "Ego" thing being a
1-series, it's a Necessity for the camera which needs it regardless
irrelevant stuff like FOV crop or imager size
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
35mm format, with digital we have three different sensor sizes made
by Canon and really they represent three different market segments.
The 1D came out first and was based on the 1V, however Canon have
painted themselves into a corner since the 1Ds came out, they now
have two totally different cameras (in function) but both based on
1V, and sharing the 1D label. Canon might want to get away from
this situation and by releasing a 2D we may find the cameras
diverge in form and function. That is a 2D may break new ground and
start looking different to 1 series camera. The Nikon D2H is the
first totally new design built from the ground up with digital in
mind. You may find Canon realizes it's time to shed its film body
ancestry. Doesn't imply the 2D will be in any way inferior, just
quite different. In a few years 2 will become synonomous with
excellence.
Ben Strasser
Senior Member
The EOS 3 was considered a professional camera by Canon. Body of the EOS 1n plus eye-controlled focus of the A2E. Since it came out 4 years after the EOS 1n, I would say it was the new "flag ship" of the time. Canon also designated the D30 as a professional camera, pop-up flash, plastic body and all. The D60 took it's place followed by the 10D.
What I am trying to say is at what point does a professional camera become a non-professional camera? The D30 users have a pro camera but the D60 and 10D people don't. No way. Also, Canon has varied their naming schemes a number of times. EOS 1, 1x, E3, 10S, 630, A2, D30, D60, 10D and 300D. The A2 at the time was the ideal "sports" camera with eye-controlled focus, high shutter speed and high frame rate. Just maybe Canon will name the new "sports" digital the A2D.
Take a look at this link for the evolution of the pro and non-pro Canon cameras and their features.
http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/index.html
What I am trying to say is at what point does a professional camera become a non-professional camera? The D30 users have a pro camera but the D60 and 10D people don't. No way. Also, Canon has varied their naming schemes a number of times. EOS 1, 1x, E3, 10S, 630, A2, D30, D60, 10D and 300D. The A2 at the time was the ideal "sports" camera with eye-controlled focus, high shutter speed and high frame rate. Just maybe Canon will name the new "sports" digital the A2D.
Take a look at this link for the evolution of the pro and non-pro Canon cameras and their features.
http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/index.html
So I whole-heartedly agree with Adam-T on this one!
Andrew
Adam digital has complicated things. With film there is only theThe "1" Part is nothing to do with the Imager, it's to do with the
BODY and the projected purchaser, a 1-series body is designed to be
used in all conditions day in, day out and that is exactly what the
PJ needs, also needs a fast responsive camera..
I'd not like to do heavy PJ work with a metal bodied EOS-3, it
doesn't have the strength or the weather sealing - and the 1-series
body IMO is overkill for the usual purpose a 1DS is used for, in
fact an EOS3 body (even in it's existing Plastic shell) would be
more than good enough for studio and fair weather work - it's the
PJ camera which needs to be tough, it's not an "Ego" thing being a
1-series, it's a Necessity for the camera which needs it regardless
irrelevant stuff like FOV crop or imager size
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
35mm format, with digital we have three different sensor sizes made
by Canon and really they represent three different market segments.
The 1D came out first and was based on the 1V, however Canon have
painted themselves into a corner since the 1Ds came out, they now
have two totally different cameras (in function) but both based on
1V, and sharing the 1D label. Canon might want to get away from
this situation and by releasing a 2D we may find the cameras
diverge in form and function. That is a 2D may break new ground and
start looking different to 1 series camera. The Nikon D2H is the
first totally new design built from the ground up with digital in
mind. You may find Canon realizes it's time to shed its film body
ancestry. Doesn't imply the 2D will be in any way inferior, just
quite different. In a few years 2 will become synonomous with
excellence.
Ben Strasser
Senior Member
Because the only other option was to use the D60 body? ... the
1-series body was there and needed minimal alteration to take the
full frame Sensor/viewfinder mask as the mirror box is full size on
the 1D anyway (the viewfinder is masked out) - less in the way of
R&D and the camera gets to benefit from all the other important
thngs a 1-series offers such as the rotary magnet shutter,
extensive customisation, large LCD, 3-LCD setup, operational
controls etc etc etc
I suppose it was bad wording to call it a "Studio" camera but I bet
that's where most of the Pro bought ones are and you won't find
many in the hands of PJs in their normal line of work and I bet
that not many have had their weathersealing put to the test either..
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
Ben Strasser
Senior Member
Maybe Canon meant for it to be called a "one"-"zero"D and not a "ten"D.
Ben Strasser
Senior Member
if "S" is for "studio", "n" is for "new", "D" is for "digital", what does the 1"V" stand for - "viagara"?
Wilbert Chan
Senior Member
--So I whole-heartedly agree with Adam-T on this one!
Andrew
Adam digital has complicated things. With film there is only theThe "1" Part is nothing to do with the Imager, it's to do with the
BODY and the projected purchaser, a 1-series body is designed to be
used in all conditions day in, day out and that is exactly what the
PJ needs, also needs a fast responsive camera..
I'd not like to do heavy PJ work with a metal bodied EOS-3, it
doesn't have the strength or the weather sealing - and the 1-series
body IMO is overkill for the usual purpose a 1DS is used for, in
fact an EOS3 body (even in it's existing Plastic shell) would be
more than good enough for studio and fair weather work - it's the
PJ camera which needs to be tough, it's not an "Ego" thing being a
1-series, it's a Necessity for the camera which needs it regardless
irrelevant stuff like FOV crop or imager size
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
35mm format, with digital we have three different sensor sizes made
by Canon and really they represent three different market segments.
The 1D came out first and was based on the 1V, however Canon have
painted themselves into a corner since the 1Ds came out, they now
have two totally different cameras (in function) but both based on
1V, and sharing the 1D label. Canon might want to get away from
this situation and by releasing a 2D we may find the cameras
diverge in form and function. That is a 2D may break new ground and
start looking different to 1 series camera. The Nikon D2H is the
first totally new design built from the ground up with digital in
mind. You may find Canon realizes it's time to shed its film body
ancestry. Doesn't imply the 2D will be in any way inferior, just
quite different. In a few years 2 will become synonomous with
excellence.
Regards,
Wilbert Chan
Wilbert Chan
Senior Member
and also stands for Roman numeral 5. The 5th generation of Canon professional 35mm SLR cameras since F1, New F1, EOS 1, 1N.
Regards,
Wilbert Chan
Regards,
Wilbert Chan
MikeDitz
Leading Member
--
-Kel 2K
Andrew D. Heilman
Active member
If you'll notice I corrected myself. The 1nRS, however, only ran at 10 FPS in SINGLE SHOT mode. In AI Servo it's top frame rate was 6 FPS. The EOS-3 could do 7 FPS in both single shot and Servo.
Andrew D. Heilman
Active member
Ben,
I think the term "pro" is what you're getting held up on here. Yes, pros used the A2E, they used the D30, some even used an Elan II as a backup or third body. I had a good friend who did (and I believe still does) shoot for Syracuse SID (Sports Info Dept.). At the time (1998), he was shooting an A2E over a 1nRS. However, if you look at Adam-T's posts he points out that while the 3 and A2E were good cameras they were never intentioned for photoj's in combat zones and concrete jungles like Baltimore, Boston, San Francisco, Dallas, NYC and the "war torn" inner cities where PJ's were doing some in-depth work. The 1 series was made to be beat around, banged up, and even dropped a few times and remain working flawlessly. You can't do that to an A2E, a D30, or an EOS-3. And if you go back and look at it (and I still have a lot of the litterature), the EOS-3 was never branded as the "flagship." That title has always and ONLY remained with the 1 series, ALWAYS. The 3 was ushered in as the "new technology" that was going to revolutionize the photo world. And it did that when it was finally introduced into a package that was desirable; the 1v. I knew a lot of PJ's who were quite mad that they were saddled with one or two EOS-3's when what they really wanted was a 1v. I met a guy at a Sacramento Kings game who carried a 1v and a 3 and he called his 3 a glorified camera holster - something to throw over his shoulder that would hold another lens for when he wanted it and would throw it on the 1v (as long as he had the time). Every camera fills its niche (or attempts to). That's not to say "pro's" don't use different cameras for different jobs or situations- I sure do. Perhaps we need to use the word "flagship." Indeed no other camer line has held that title from Canon than the 1 series (the 1, 1n, 1nRS, 1v, and 1vHS). I have to respectfully dissagree with your statement that the 3 was the "flagship" when it came out. Canon never intentioned it to be that, thus the branding of a "3" as opposed to a 1.
Andrew
I think the term "pro" is what you're getting held up on here. Yes, pros used the A2E, they used the D30, some even used an Elan II as a backup or third body. I had a good friend who did (and I believe still does) shoot for Syracuse SID (Sports Info Dept.). At the time (1998), he was shooting an A2E over a 1nRS. However, if you look at Adam-T's posts he points out that while the 3 and A2E were good cameras they were never intentioned for photoj's in combat zones and concrete jungles like Baltimore, Boston, San Francisco, Dallas, NYC and the "war torn" inner cities where PJ's were doing some in-depth work. The 1 series was made to be beat around, banged up, and even dropped a few times and remain working flawlessly. You can't do that to an A2E, a D30, or an EOS-3. And if you go back and look at it (and I still have a lot of the litterature), the EOS-3 was never branded as the "flagship." That title has always and ONLY remained with the 1 series, ALWAYS. The 3 was ushered in as the "new technology" that was going to revolutionize the photo world. And it did that when it was finally introduced into a package that was desirable; the 1v. I knew a lot of PJ's who were quite mad that they were saddled with one or two EOS-3's when what they really wanted was a 1v. I met a guy at a Sacramento Kings game who carried a 1v and a 3 and he called his 3 a glorified camera holster - something to throw over his shoulder that would hold another lens for when he wanted it and would throw it on the 1v (as long as he had the time). Every camera fills its niche (or attempts to). That's not to say "pro's" don't use different cameras for different jobs or situations- I sure do. Perhaps we need to use the word "flagship." Indeed no other camer line has held that title from Canon than the 1 series (the 1, 1n, 1nRS, 1v, and 1vHS). I have to respectfully dissagree with your statement that the 3 was the "flagship" when it came out. Canon never intentioned it to be that, thus the branding of a "3" as opposed to a 1.
From the original Canon press release at http://www.dpreview.com/news/0209/02092404canoneos1ds.asp
"With its extremely high resolution, the EOS-1Ds has been designed to meet the needs of those professional photographers who need the ultimate in digital image quality. Therefore, it is expected to appeal to professionals active in a wide range of specialties including studio, commercial, reportage, or fashion photography."
I'm not saying that it can not be used in the studio, just that it is capable of much more. It may well be that many, even most, PJ's prefer the 1D, but even PJ is a broad area and there are plenty of people doing magazine and other work that can benefit from the resolution, robustness and speed (yes) of the 1Ds...
Cheers
Ian S
'The road to Hell is paved with good intentions'
http://www.rainpalm.com
http://www.mekongpicturehouse.com
"With its extremely high resolution, the EOS-1Ds has been designed to meet the needs of those professional photographers who need the ultimate in digital image quality. Therefore, it is expected to appeal to professionals active in a wide range of specialties including studio, commercial, reportage, or fashion photography."
I'm not saying that it can not be used in the studio, just that it is capable of much more. It may well be that many, even most, PJ's prefer the 1D, but even PJ is a broad area and there are plenty of people doing magazine and other work that can benefit from the resolution, robustness and speed (yes) of the 1Ds...
Cheers
--Because the only other option was to use the D60 body? ... the
1-series body was there and needed minimal alteration to take the
full frame Sensor/viewfinder mask as the mirror box is full size on
the 1D anyway (the viewfinder is masked out) - less in the way of
R&D and the camera gets to benefit from all the other important
thngs a 1-series offers such as the rotary magnet shutter,
extensive customisation, large LCD, 3-LCD setup, operational
controls etc etc etc
I suppose it was bad wording to call it a "Studio" camera but I bet
that's where most of the Pro bought ones are and you won't find
many in the hands of PJs in their normal line of work and I bet
that not many have had their weathersealing put to the test either..
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
Ian S
'The road to Hell is paved with good intentions'
http://www.rainpalm.com
http://www.mekongpicturehouse.com
Adam-T
Forum Pro
The way I saw it was that there was a semi-Pro line starting With the EOS-10 (the first of the EOS3 line) and like the EOS5 and 3 added features which the 1-series of the time didn't have
the 10 Added fast sensitive 3-lit Multipoint AF, Barcode reader, Timer functions and IR remote to the EOS range (the AF on this camera is actually better than the 10D, Elan 7 and Ti believe it or not!)
the 5 added Eye control and 5-point AF (the EOS1 was still current I think)
the 3 added 45-point AF (the 1N was still current)
So they lead the way with technology and the Fully Pro 1-series followed afterwards after the semi-pro cameras had tested the water.. All these three semi Pro cameras are Plastic and won't stand up to the punishment a 1-series will. Also the 1-series and 3 without powerboosters aren't as fast as the 5 and 10 both of which manage FIVE Frames per second as they are (the EOS-RT, EOS-1-RT and 600 pulled this off also).. Some of the features added to the Semi-pro line never made it into the 1-series Such as the 10's Barcode reader, IR remote & Timer functions and the 3 &5's Eye control.
So I see it as
1-series - Fully Pro
10/5/3 - Semi Pro / Hi End enthusiast
Elan-series - Enthusiast
Rebel - Consumer
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
the 10 Added fast sensitive 3-lit Multipoint AF, Barcode reader, Timer functions and IR remote to the EOS range (the AF on this camera is actually better than the 10D, Elan 7 and Ti believe it or not!)
the 5 added Eye control and 5-point AF (the EOS1 was still current I think)
the 3 added 45-point AF (the 1N was still current)
So they lead the way with technology and the Fully Pro 1-series followed afterwards after the semi-pro cameras had tested the water.. All these three semi Pro cameras are Plastic and won't stand up to the punishment a 1-series will. Also the 1-series and 3 without powerboosters aren't as fast as the 5 and 10 both of which manage FIVE Frames per second as they are (the EOS-RT, EOS-1-RT and 600 pulled this off also).. Some of the features added to the Semi-pro line never made it into the 1-series Such as the 10's Barcode reader, IR remote & Timer functions and the 3 &5's Eye control.
So I see it as
1-series - Fully Pro
10/5/3 - Semi Pro / Hi End enthusiast
Elan-series - Enthusiast
Rebel - Consumer
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
Tony Donaldson136368
Well-known member
Hope someone takes my suggestions and makes the 2D in bright colors, hence
"2D Fruity" . Hahahahaha
But seriously, unlike Nikon, who go up in numbers, Canon's system has been to keep the flagship at number 1, a la EOS 1, 1N, 1Nrs, 1V...
Won't be a 2 most likely, and whatever it is it won't likely come out that soon. Not in the same year as the Juan Diaz.
-T
"2D Fruity" . Hahahahaha
But seriously, unlike Nikon, who go up in numbers, Canon's system has been to keep the flagship at number 1, a la EOS 1, 1N, 1Nrs, 1V...
Won't be a 2 most likely, and whatever it is it won't likely come out that soon. Not in the same year as the Juan Diaz.
-T
Wilbert Chan
Senior Member
EOS 3 with PB-E2 runs at H=7 fps. Without PB-E2 only 4.3 fps.
Regards,
Wilbert Chan
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