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The great GX9 poll - 😀or 😢?

The great GX9 poll - 😀or 😢?

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GX8 was never really a GX7 replacement - it had the tilting VF but lacked flash and had video features that GX7 lacked. GX9 seems to have gone back to the photography focused rangefinder style tilting viewfinder camera that GX7 was.

Those that wan't video features and weather sealing there is G85 for you.
 
Astrotripper said:
Trevor Carpenter said:
trouble with the poll is that you don't have to want one to think that Panasonic have got it dead right. It has absolutely no appeal to me yet I think that despite the moaners it meets a market much missed on this forum since the GX7.
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If you think that then you are in the "positive leaning reaction" :-)

I for one think that Panasonic got it dead wrong :-)

And the only thing they had to do to get it dead right was to name this camera GX95 or something like that :-)

The problem with this new release is that it is mostly seen as an announcement of the end of the GX8 line of cameras. Well, not much of a line, it was only one model. The problem was that a lot of people here expected it to be a line that continues. Panasonic killed this expectation.

It was the only rangefinder type MFT camera that had aspirations to be a flagship. That's gone now.

They, like Olympus, decided that rangefinder style bodies are for non-serious uses and their place is at the bottom half of the hierarchy. And that's a shame because I wanted a backup body to my E-M1 II to be a rangefinder style.

Maybe it's time to get a second hand GX8 on the cheap. I was kinda hoping GX9 would be just a fixed and slightly tweaked GX8.

To sum it up, GX9 is a nice camera. It's just that it's not a GX9 :-)
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I agree with that - it is no disaster and if it had been the “original GX8” at much the same price then nobody would have missed the actual GX8 or the GX85/80 for that matter :)

The fact is that very few were prepared to pay the premium price that the GX8 was first marketed at - a fact that most posting here seem to overlook. What they really seem to want was a GX8 upgrade at the same price that the GX9 is expected to be launched at - Panasonic is not that silly - they made another camera body at a price they knew would sell.

When stocks of the GX85/80 are no longer available then the market fro that product will seamlessly switch to the GX9. Those with a GX8 should be happy that their 20mp sensor will remain satte of he art for a good while longer and they hardly need to upgrade anyway.
 
No surprise with the poll results.

The M43 manufacturers sure know how to annoy their users by crippling their compacts or second tier cameras. Even today, after years of the same tricks, Olympus with the 16MP sensors and Panasonic with the 16:9 sequential field EVF. You either buy the big flagship or you can forget any real upgrades without some crippling flaw. No compact and high-end pro level cameras any more. Can you blame people for expressing their disappointment? What happened to the ideal of a compact AND high performance camera, like the original E-M5?
 
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Tom Caldwell said:
Andrewteee said:
If they had called it the GX95 then all would be well. But the naming convention boggles the mind. If there is ever going to be a true GX8 successor what the heck would they call that?
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Hmm, now lets go back and have another look ....

The GX8 was a marketing mistake. Rushed out too soon for whatever reason with the 20mp sensor and before the soft shutter and better IBiIS were ready to be included. Maybe they thought that the market would pay “any price” for the sake of 20mp?
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I didn’t bother with GX7 due to the sequential evf. I bought the gx8 because for me it was so close to perfect.

I’d pay serious money for a gx8 successor that just fixed its minor flaws. For me they were the shutter, and the auto-iso EC, and I way prefer a tilt-screen. Better IBIS would have been gravy.

Tom Caldwell said:
It was too expensive and despite the noisy fully articulated lcd claque who would like to see every camera ever made with a fully articulated lcd (full stop) there were and are still many users who prefer tilt lcd units. Choice of lcd articulation is good and Panasonic still provides it.
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we’re not all price sensitive.
Tom Caldwell said:
In a simple marketing exercise Panasonic produced an expensive white elephant of limited technology (? Questionable in the light of the current raging) that did not advance the GX7 very far at all despite its 20mp sensor it was significantly larger and more expensive.
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or size sensitive. Form factor yes, size less so.
Tom Caldwell said:
The sales must have been in free fall and the GX7 was aging and still very popular.

So they decided to update the GX7 with a series of improvements as a logical gap-filler at a more reasonable price point. But what to call it? So we have the snow job of the “GX8 and one half” (GX85/80) as it could hardly be called a GX9 and the GX8 slot was already filled. A 20mp sensor would have blown the RRP out of the water at the time.

So we might now get a huge complain from GX8 owners who somehow feel cheated that the upgrade they did not need has not been offered. Why would the average GX8 owner need to upgrade a camera body that has a trick evf, weather sealing, the popular (for some) fully articulated lcd, a bit more size meat and the 20mp sensor already? Think about it and think harder if it were to be sold on a price plane similar to that of the launch price of the GX8.

The truth of the matter (like the GM series) was that it only became popular when it was reduced to distress pricing because Panasonic could not sell them at their desired price point for love nor money - well the right money won in the end but it was not Panasonic’s “right money”.

So this camera is positioned right where the GX8 should have originally been and priced to sell in numbers at a price Panasonic will not have to slash to move them.

It has the longed for 20mp sensor for goodness sake and otherwise is a made over and improved version of the popular and long running GX7 at a logical price point where it will no doubt replace the GX85/80 as is most likely planned.

Here Panasonic is returning to its original model numbering sequence and not making a premium high priced RF body to compete directly head to head with the G9.

For those that need more evf oomph, and the advanced tricks they can pay a bit more and get the premium G9.

One day the present GX8 might be superseded but I hardly think that such a premium camera body is anywhere near the end of its use by date already. As far as i know nobody has updated a 20mp camera body that is presently made. The GH5s is a special case.

Nice to see that the GX9 reverts to a tilt LCD. As a new owner of a G9 I would have great difficulty in “needing” much the same thing in RF guise, but the GX9 fits nicely into the progression frame of GX7->GX85->GX9 although I already have a GX85 and the GX7 I alo have still delights me.

There will be a GX9 in my future, but I am far from ready for it just yet.

A direct expensive GX8 upgrade would be too close to my G9 and I would not be willing to take a loss by on-selling my G9 for such a camera - the G9 is far too good a camera for that. As a result for me direct competitive premium GX8 upgrade at G9 price point = fail. GX9 as a logical successor to the GX85 at a more reasonable price point = looking good, but I am in no hurry.

Lets get real - once the “shock” has gone the GX9 will sell really well as how many now beating their breasts in sorrow would gladly pay the same for their “dream” GX9 if it was as expensive as the G9?
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I would, and it wouldn’t have to be that much of an upgrade. I won’t touch a G9, if I would, I’d probably get a D750 or A7Riii or something like that.

Tom Caldwell said:
Maybe ignore such a camera body and complain about the price until Panasonic discounts it out at near death experience prices - I suggest that Panasonic had a think abut this and said “no thanks”.

--
Tom Caldwell
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It’s their right, of course, but their zigzagging on these issues gives some of us whiplash.
 
Tom Caldwell said:
Why would the average GX8 owner need to upgrade a camera body that has a trick evf, weather sealing, the popular (for some) fully articulated lcd, a bit more size meat and the 20mp sensor already? Think about it and think harder if it were to be sold on a price plane similar to that of the launch price of the GX8.
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Oh, I would buy one, and I thought you were in that crowd, too. Put the GH5/G9 shockproof shutter in it, put the G9 IBIS in it, the improved DFD, Dual IS2, and remove the AA filter. I would have paid $1200 to $1400 for that. If THAT camera had been released before the G9, I wouldn't have bought the G9. But even having purchased the G9, if THAT camera were released now, with an EVF at least as good as the GX8's, I would buy it and sell my GX8.
Tom Caldwell said:
The truth of the matter (like the GM series) was that it only became popular when it was reduced to distress pricing because Panasonic could not sell them at their desired price point for love nor money - well the right money won in the end but it was not Panasonic’s “right money”.
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Distress pricing? I think the GX8 maintained its price for a long time. The black body is currently selling for $1,000 on B&H, down from $1,200, but it's been what, three years since it was introduced? And now with newer cameras having followed it?
Tom Caldwell said:
Lets get real - once the “shock” has gone the GX9 will sell really well as how many now beating their breasts in sorrow would gladly pay the same for their “dream” GX9 if it was as expensive as the G9?
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I'm sure the GX9 will sell well, but not to those of us who want a GX8 update, as described above. It wouldn't have to be as expensive as the G9. Leave off the top LCD, the dual card slots, the joystick, the ultra-fast shooting, some of the higher-end video capabilities.

I have no animosity towards the GX9. Lots of people will buy it and love it. But I think a strong case can be made that a true GX8 successor could sell much better now than the GX8 sold. I think Panasonic errs in thinking otherwise.
 
I'm between meh and bah on this one.. so I didn't vote.

Perhaps another phrasing of the poll would be: now the GX9 is 'out' which is your next GX camera: 8/85/9? Losing the weather seals brings the 8 back into play for me, though I prefer tip to flip screen. The 85 would probably come second for me, especially for its value.
 
If I had the Gx7 I would be pretty happy with this camera for an upgrade. My biggest issue with the Gx8 was always the initial 'price point' Panasonic Canada placed on the model. I was finally able to buy one in the US for a little more than half the current Canadian price and despite the big 'shutter shock' issue - which has not bothered me at all - I think it is a great camera. Since almost all of my lenses are still 4/3rd lenses the bigger body size is no issue. Manual focus with its nice viewfinder is actually quite good. I may still get another Gx8 if I could find a great deal again. This camera to me is not an upgrade to the Gx8. I agree with many posters that possibly this camera should be called the Gx95. It seems Panasonic have caught themselves in a model naming placement dilemma.

Silver
 
Tom Caldwell said:
Anthelix said:
Andrewteee said:
If they had called it the GX95 then all would be well. But the naming convention boggles the mind. If there is ever going to be a true GX8 successor what the heck would they call that?
Click to expand...
The naming anomaly was the GX8, which was not a successor for the GX7. But I agree with you : will there be a GX8 successor ?

This GX9(5) looks like overall like a nice improvement over the GX85. I'm very happy to see Panasonic focus on this style of camera rather than releasing another oversized beast. However I'm a bit disappointed by the shape of the grip. For me Panasonic was the best grip designer on the market. Even with small grips, you got a secure feeling, for example on the GF3. But here, the grip looks very uncomfortable, and even the add-on grip doesn't look right...
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The reason is, I think, that the Panasonic RF style camera design brief suggests that they must pack as many features as possible into as compact a body as can be made. More or less in keeping with the original Leica RF philosophy.

On the other hands their faux-slr bodies have no such design concept restrictions and therefore they can be all “shaped grips” large evf units and fully articulated lcd units. Furthermore adding a battery grip is not an issue with them.
Click to expand...
 
Panasonic shot themselves in the foot with their naming conventions with the GX9. There really is nothing wrong with the camera when compared with the GX85, or even a GX7, but compared to a GX8 (which it is replacing) its a lack luster upgrade...and downgrade in many respects. I cant believe they gave gone with a sequential EVF and no weather sealing! I cant see anybody with a GX8 being convinced that this is their next camera.
 
CheersUK said:
Panasonic shot themselves in the foot with their naming conventions with the GX9.
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I think that's what it really boils down to. If they had named it the GX90/95 (and just killed off the 'GX#' line), I don't think there'd be as many people up in arms about it, since it does appear to be basically an upgraded GX85.

It's got me curious now as to what an updated G85 will look like (assuming there is one, of course). Seems as though the G85 has sold really well, so maybe there's hope they won't screw that one up.
 
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Andrewteee said:
If they had called it the GX95 then all would be well. But the naming convention boggles the mind. If there is ever going to be a true GX8 successor what the heck would they call that?
Click to expand...
I know people would not like to hear it, but they named this the GX9 likely because there won't be a "true" GX8 successor. The GX8, even though it has its fans, seemed to be a market failure.

If they named it the GX95 this would give false hope to those waiting for a "true" GX8 successor. Now the choice is either to accept this camera or to get a G9 (which some GX8 owners appear to be planning to do).
 
JakeJY said:
Andrewteee said:
If they had called it the GX95 then all would be well. But the naming convention boggles the mind. If there is ever going to be a true GX8 successor what the heck would they call that?
Click to expand...
I know people would not like to hear it, but they named this the GX9 likely because there won't be a "true" GX8 successor. The GX8, even though it has its fans, seemed to be a market failure.
Click to expand...
It's interesting to hear you and others say that, because it is in fact the GX8 that got me excited about Panasonic cameras (and their lenses are exceptional - I adore the PL 12-60mm!). For me, the camera was unique and had soul and I bought into the system because of it. And at the time - for a trip to Alaska I bought a second one - it served me well for so many reasons. I guess one person's failure is another person's treasure :-D
JakeJY said:
If they named it the GX95 this would give false hope to those waiting for a "true" GX8 successor. Now the choice is either to accept this camera or to get a G9 (which some GX8 owners appear to be planning to do).
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I accepted the G9 and bought one and I love it too, but I'm holding on to my GX8 as long as it lives!

And I've said this elsewhere, but my wife has the GX85 and I do not like shooting with it (she loved it but never uses it anymore because of her iPhone). To me, the GX85 feels more "gadgety" than the GX8 and the EVF is poor. And I've also said this elsewhere - the GX9 is a fantastic GX85 upgrade! It's just that to me it is a GX95, not a GX9. It does not have the should of the GX8.

My main point here is that had it not been for the GX8 I likely would have never bought into the Panasonic ecosystem. But to be fair, I'm sure the GX9 may win over many converts too.

Horses for courses, as they say.
 
That’s exactly it. The GX8 was a premium RF style MFT camera. I decided to eschew APS-C and stick with a fixed lens FF 35mm, and get a rabble of Panasonic lenses to go with a GX8, and hopefully an updated successor.

it was just a tweak from greatness, and now it’ll just have to continue to do.
 
Tom Caldwell said:
Astrotripper said:
Trevor Carpenter said:
trouble with the poll is that you don't have to want one to think that Panasonic have got it dead right. It has absolutely no appeal to me yet I think that despite the moaners it meets a market much missed on this forum since the GX7.
Click to expand...
If you think that then you are in the "positive leaning reaction" :-)

I for one think that Panasonic got it dead wrong :-)

And the only thing they had to do to get it dead right was to name this camera GX95 or something like that :-)

The problem with this new release is that it is mostly seen as an announcement of the end of the GX8 line of cameras. Well, not much of a line, it was only one model. The problem was that a lot of people here expected it to be a line that continues. Panasonic killed this expectation.

It was the only rangefinder type MFT camera that had aspirations to be a flagship. That's gone now.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Tom Caldwell said:
Tom Caldwell said:
[...]

To sum it up, GX9 is a nice camera. It's just that it's not a GX9 :-)
Click to expand...
I agree with that - it is no disaster and if it had been the “original GX8” at much the same price then nobody would have missed the actual GX8 or the GX85/80 for that matter :)

The fact is that very few were prepared to pay the premium price that the GX8 was first marketed at - a fact that most posting here seem to overlook.
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But that was Panasonic's fault. GX8 was a botched job. On many fronts. And Panasonic persistently keeps making the same mistake.

First of all, people were not happy that apparent GX7 successor was so different from GX7. GX8 should have not been called GX8. That name carried certain expectations, which were not met by the camera itself. Simply put, it was not really a GX8 and should have not been marketed as such.

And then there were all the little issues that made GX8 look a bit like a rushed product (especially in retrospect). Faulty shutters, shutter shock issues, especially with the kit lens it was sold with (I mean come on, what were they thinking?), cropped 4K video, no IBIS in video and poor IBIS performance in general (and unimpressive Dual IS).

And 8 months later comes GX80 and it turns out both biggest technical issues of GX8 could have been avoided if it came out later. That was basically a nail in the coffin of GX8.

And about half a year after GX8 launch comes the 12-60mm that should have been the kit lens on GX8 from day one.

Someone suggested in one of the recent GX9 threads that they should have made a separate line out of it and call it L2.

I think GX8 was a missed opportunity. Imagine how different it might have been if it were released a few months later with 5-axis IBIS that worked in video (something that many people waited for), new shock-free shutter and sold with the cheap weather resistant 12-60. A 20mp weather-resistant kit with 4K and IBIS for $1300 sounds a lot more enticing than what GX8 was when it launched.

And yeah, GX8 got a bad reputation because of some of those issues. The guys at Lenstip who did the review of GX8 on their Polish website tested TWO bodies. And BOTH had issues. One had a faulty shutter (a problem raised few times on this forum as well if I remember correctly) and the other had a faulty sensor or maybe electronics (either way, it generated noticeably and measurably higher noise). On top of that, one of their bodies had messed up dials. How do you think that impacts the reputation of the camera?
 
Those internet polls are not reliable nor representative at all, but the results are interesting anyway.

The minority (45 %) is disappointed.

The majority (55%) is happy or don't care.

Now the question is : among the minority, how many would actually buy a GX8 MKII?

--
Cheers,
Frederic
http://www.azurphoto.com/
 
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Pixnat2 said:
Those internet polls are not reliable nor representative at all, but the results are interesting anyway.

The minority (45 %) is disappointed.

The majority (55%) is happy or don't care.

Now the question is : among the minority, how many would actually buy a GX8 MKII?
Click to expand...
 
Pixnat2 said:
Those internet polls are not reliable nor representative at all,
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I don't really care, I just wanted to know if it's just me imagining the negative reaction in this community or if it's really there. It's easy to fall into confirmation bias and think that everyone else is as disappointed based on a few comments that are in line with my opinion.
Pixnat2 said:
but the results are interesting anyway.

The minority (45 %) is disappointed.

The majority (55%) is happy or don't care.
Click to expand...
Or the minority (23%) is happy while the vast majority (77%) is disappointed or doesn't care. :-)
Pixnat2 said:
Now the question is : among the minority, how many would actually buy a GX8 MKII?
Click to expand...
Doesn't really matter. It's all the game of perception.

Those number should be absolutely terrifying to Panasonic's marketing department (if they even have one).

I mean, they just announced a pretty damn fine looking camera and the amount of negativity is just staggering.

Coz let's make it clear, I really don't think that all or even a majority of the voices of disappointment have to do with GX9 being seen as a bad camera. The consensus seems to be that it's a very fine update to GX85.

It's actually a proper successor to GX7 and should really be called GX7 Mark II (the GX85, which was called that in Japan, wasn't much of a successor to GX7 as it removed its hallmark feature).

To me, this whole thing is a textbook example of product management failure. The whole GX line is such a mess it just boggles my mind.
 
Astrotripper said:
Ok, this camera generates a lot of talk and controversy already. I am curious if the voices of disappointment are really as many as I see or am I just a victim of confirmation bias.

I think a poll is in order to solve this mystery.
Click to expand...
You can see how they placed the camera

A real successor to the GX8 would have had a red ring
 
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