Epson XP-960 Printer profiling gives even worst results

FeriTala · Dec 23, 2017

Hi

I recently purchased an Epson XP-960 printer to print some of my photography works. The printer has 6 cartridges. Only one black ink.

The colour prints are good however considering it only has one black cartridge the black and white prints give me a bit of magenta tint to the photos.

I read in many articles that if I profile the printer manually it would fix the problem.

So I got a SpyderPRINT profiling device. But now the problem is that the result is even worst, it now gives me prints with a bit of sepia effect. I tried to manually tune the ICC profile but no matter how much I adjust them they are still not as good.

I print my photos in Adobe Lightroom, if I choose manage by printer in the colour management and in the printer preferences set it to Grayscale then the print would be much better and closer to neutral but still I can see the magenta tint.

I'm wondering if the problem is the calibrator device or something else, as I think it should still give me a better result than what the factory setting is.

Has any one experienced something like this, anyone worked with SpyderPRINT is it good? Should I change it and get a ColorMunki ?

Thanks

Feri

Charles2 · Dec 23, 2017

See the brief but informative section on Black and White in Keith Cooper's review of the printer:

Epson Expression XP-960 printer review A3 all in one

Epson Expression Photo XP-960 printer review. All-in-one printer/scanner that supports double sided printing and photo prints up to A3 size

www.northlight-images.co.uk

JRWood · Dec 23, 2017

If you'd like I can help with a profile if you can't get this solved. Have you made profiles before? What is your workflow for creating a profile?

FeriTala · Dec 23, 2017

Thanks a lot

Well this is my first time, but I followed some tutorials and articles just to make sure I am doing it right

I use SpyderPrint 5 software to print the targets, and the following are the details and procedures I have taken

1. Paper: PermaJet Luster Titanium A4

2. Printed targets of Classic High Quality Target plus Gray (two pages)

3. Waited an hour for them to dry

4. Started measuring, made sure all the colours been measured accurately

5. Created the profile

6. Used Lightroom and printed my black and white photo using the profile

The first result got a cast of sepia in it, it gets better when its dry but still not as neutral as it is supposed to be.

I started modifying the profile using SpyderPRINT software I manage to get the sepia and magenta cast much less but it seems that cyan and green kicks in and the photo lose contrast.

Thanks

Feri

plantdoc · Dec 23, 2017

My Epson R280 that I believe used the same 6 color Claria inks did not produce neutral B&W prints, but my efforts were limited. I currently use a Canon all in one that uses 3 colors and black and gray plus pigment black for text. B&W prints are much better. I believe Canon for some reason has changed the ink set to eliminate the gray and switch to blue. This baffles me.. blue? You might be able to pick up the Canon 77?? for less than the cost of the ink. Deals are great on the remain supplies. I almost bought one for $40 with free shipping.

Greg

Keith Cooper · Dec 24, 2017

FeriTala said:
...

Has any one experienced something like this, anyone worked with SpyderPRINT is it good? Should I change it and get a ColorMunki ?

Thanks

Feri

No, get a better printer ;-)

Seriously though, I had one to test for a review and with good profiling kit it was capable of quite nice prints.

Here's a ~2700 patch profiling target I made (for i1isis XL + i1Profiler)

The new colormunki will give pretty good results on some papers, but I'm inclined to suggest that a better printer and profiles from paper manufacturers is maybe a better expenditure?

The 960 is a nice enough printer, but making profiles (apart from for testing) seems a bit misplaced?

For B&W, even my rather expensive profiling kit and software wasn't enough to put into the 'Good for B&W' category.

--
bye for now
Keith Cooper

FeriTala · Dec 24, 2017

Hi Keith

Thanks for your time,

I have actually read your review it was very helpful.

I managed to get really good colour photos out of this printer, I also managed to get some kind of neutral BW images after modifying the profiles but the problem is that why SpyderPrint is giving me these nonsense results (right after profiling it gives a very sepia results), is it the profiler device or the printer?

See the following photos

The left photo I got it from a magazine assuming it was neutral and I could use it as my base, on the right I have created different profile settings, top left is close to the original SpyderPrint profile (you can see the sepia effect) and top right is the one which I think is close to neutral, as you see the others have a tint of either sepia or green in them (it was much worst before customizing the profiles)

I have a warm lighting in my room so this photos is not showing accurate results to be honest.

Now I'm not sure if I should return the SpyderPrint and get a ColorMunki?

Thanks

Feri

Keith Cooper · Dec 24, 2017

B&W printing is always a tricky one with single black ink printers and having tried the xp-960, the actual choice of profiling kit doesn't take nearly as much difference as you might want.

Profiles made with various papers are always likely to show colour casts depending on paper colour (and OBAs), the ink set, and the viewing lighting

I couldn't get spot-on B&W via the driver, even with kit+software that retails for getting on for $5000, so getting a colormunki is unlikely to help...

The 960 will make very good colour prints, and profiling can help.

I've a 24" Canon TX-2000 due to turn up here next year to test - thats just CMYK and I'll give it a go for colour and B&W, as much as an experiment to see what can be done, as opposed to looking at it as a 'photo print' solution.

Out of curiosity, did you use the SpyderPrint target with the extended greys? (I realise that even mentioning the SpyderPrint will get me cited by the colour management thought police, but what the ****, I've used it in the past and it worked ;-)

FeriTala · Dec 24, 2017

I see, my understanding from the profiling so far is that it is possible to create a good profile for B&W and get it close to neutral but it will cost ink and paper they need to be printed so many times and try different profile modifications. (I hope I am right

)

Yes I printed the classic High Quality Target plus Grays (two pages, one colour and one grays)

Keith Cooper · Dec 24, 2017

FeriTala said:
I see, my understanding from the profiling so far is that it is possible to create a good profile for B&W only and get it close to neutral but it will cost ink and paper and I need to print so many times and try different profile modifications. (I hope I am right )

Yes I printed the classic High Quality Target plus Grays (to pages, one colour and one grays)

From experience with the printer, you -may- get a usable B&W profile that gives a reasonable looking print, but the moment you take it into a room with different lighting it may or may not look not so good.

Profile modifications, as in the sorts of adjustments with SpyderPrint, will indeed let you use up a lot of ink and paper, but offer no certainty of improved results.

Put simply, this is a printer best for colour prints...

FeriTala · Dec 24, 2017

Right, I think I will stick to colours for now and either print my B&W photos with effect of sepia

or give them to a specialist for prints.

Thanks a lot for your help

NAwlins Contrarian · Dec 24, 2017

FeriTala said:
3. Waited an hour for them to dry

That may not be long enough. I have an Epson R280 that uses the same Claria HD inks as your XP-960. My uncalibrated eyeballs lead my to think that the color is still shifting for well over an hour after printing. I would give serious consideration to trying again and waiting at least 12 hours for the prints to dry before trying to use the SpyderPrint on them.

That said, do not expect miracles with B&W prints from the XP-960. I have gotten decent, but not better than decent, B&W prints with my R280. OTOH, the Canon Pro-100 at the office, which has black, gray, and light gray inks, produces much better B&W prints.

Petruska · Dec 24, 2017

When you print your profiling target prints did you turn off color management in the printer driver?

Also when you print with LR managing the colors, you must also use those exact same printer driver settings that you used to print the target prints.

Bob P.

FeriTala · Dec 25, 2017

NAwlins Contrarian said:
NAwlins Contrarian said:

3. Waited an hour for them to dry

Click to expand...

That may not be long enough. I have an Epson R280 that uses the same Claria HD inks as your XP-960. My uncalibrated eyeballs lead my to think that the color is still shifting for well over an hour after printing. I would give serious consideration to trying again and waiting at least 12 hours for the prints to dry before trying to use the SpyderPrint on them.

That said, do not expect miracles with B&W prints from the XP-960. I have gotten decent, but not better than decent, B&W prints with my R280. OTOH, the Canon Pro-100 at the office, which has black, gray, and light gray inks, produces much better B&W prints.

Sure, will try it.

Thanks

FeriTala · Dec 25, 2017

Petruska said:
When you print your profiling target prints did you turn off color management in the printer driver?

Also when you print with LR managing the colors, you must also use those exact same printer driver settings that you used to print the target prints.

Bob P.

Yes I followed the SpyderPrint guide. Yes did the same in LR.

FeriTala · Dec 25, 2017

Not completely off topic, by any chance anyone knows a good lab to print photos in the UK? Preferably in London!

Thanks

jtoolman · Dec 25, 2017

FeriTala said:
NAwlins Contrarian said:

FeriTala said:

3. Waited an hour for them to dry

Click to expand...

That may not be long enough. I have an Epson R280 that uses the same Claria HD inks as your XP-960. My uncalibrated eyeballs lead my to think that the color is still shifting for well over an hour after printing. I would give serious consideration to trying again and waiting at least 12 hours for the prints to dry before trying to use the SpyderPrint on them.

That said, do not expect miracles with B&W prints from the XP-960. I have gotten decent, but not better than decent, B&W prints with my R280. OTOH, the Canon Pro-100 at the office, which has black, gray, and light gray inks, produces much better B&W prints.

Click to expand...

Sure, will try it.

Thanks

Did you turn off color management in the driver when you printed both the profile charts and you own prints?

Joe

Petruska · Dec 25, 2017

jtoolman said:
Did you turn off color management in the driver when you printed both the profile charts and you own prints?

Joe

Zubu Barunda · Dec 25, 2017

FeriTala said:
Not completely off topic, by any chance anyone knows a good lab to print photos in the UK? Preferably in London!

Thanks

theprintspace.co.uk

74 Kingsland Road
London E2 8DL

A friend of mine had approximately 30 A2 and A1 photographs printed on Canson Baryta and mounted by them recently. They have done a very good job of both printing and mounting. The prices for their services are reasonable.

Gesture · Dec 25, 2017

In the US, ITSupplies will make a Profile for $25. There should be someone in the UK who will offer a similar service. This would be a check against your work. Also, Adobe makes a small printing utility expressly for printing out profile targets. Might be worth trying. It's called the Adobe Color Printer Utility.

Keith Cooper has shared his experiences.

I have owned several of the Epson 6 dye ink printers and the Canon 5 dye plus pigment. And, for the most part, the Canons with 5 dye inks will produce a more neutral B&W than the Epson 6 dye ink printers.

If you have Photoshop, I would experiment with some Duotone, Tritone, Quadtone conversions. They might work quite well and do better than "straight" B&W for your work.

Based on off-set printing legacy and the fact that in the early days of fine art inkjet printing it was HARD to get neutral across the entire tonal ramp monochrome prints, Duotones were quite useful.

I regret that printers have turned away from them, because they produce superb aesthetic effects. You may still find a few tutorials on the web.

GOOD LUCK.

Epson XP-960 Printer profiling gives even worst results

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