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Analysis of the Lightroom situation

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Krav Maga said:
Except that many people simply don't believe what Adobe says. Mostly because many people have a cloudy understanding of what the word "indefinite" means
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www.dpreview.com

"Predictably, the first question at the hangout was about the future of Lightroom. Hogarty tried to ease concerns about Lightroom's future: 'Basically we have no plans to make Lightroom subscription-only at any point in the future. We have plans to make Lightroom available in its current form pretty much indefinitely.' And, while he wouldn't use the word 'forever,' he confirmed that he meant 'for the foreseeable future.'"
 
Krav Maga said:
edispics said:
From their Investor Relations hadout, Oct/2017:

http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/ac...ns/pdfs/ADBE-Investor-Handout-October2017.pdf

including the slide talking about LR and PSE migration by 2020.
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Good advice.

Except that many people simply don't believe what Adobe says. Mostly because many people have a cloudy understanding of what the word "indefinite" means.

--
I feel more like I do now than I did before ...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/144454453@N02/
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in|def¦in|ite

ADJECTIVE

lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time:
 
bananahead said:
in|def¦in|ite

ADJECTIVE

lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time:
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nearly anytime an argument is made based on a dictionary listing rather than actual context, it's missing the point, either intentionally or due to bias.

Context and followups matter more than a literal lookup.
 
to illustrate,

cloud providers like Google believe that hard platter storage will remain a superior value choice to SSDs or other flash technology for the foreseeable future, or relevant to this discussion, indefinitely.

They aren't going to make a silly proclamation that this will always be true, and become a historical remark like 'no one will ever need more than 640k.' But there is no technology on the horizon that is going to change the cost dynamics- even as SSDs continue to drop in price, hard drives do as well and they still find ways to increase storage density.

Everyone seized on and sought clarification on the LR indefinitely remarks, and there was no ambiguity left, just (now confirmed) cynicism over the Adobe party line.
 
kelpdiver said:
to illustrate,

cloud providers like Google believe that hard platter storage will remain a superior value choice to SSDs or other flash technology for the foreseeable future, or relevant to this discussion, indefinitely.

They aren't going to make a silly proclamation that this will always be true, and become a historical remark like 'no one will ever need more than 640k.' But there is no technology on the horizon that is going to change the cost dynamics- even as SSDs continue to drop in price, hard drives do as well and they still find ways to increase storage density.

Everyone seized on and sought clarification on the LR indefinitely remarks, and there was no ambiguity left, just (now confirmed) cynicism over the Adobe party line.
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Except that four years ago Adobe had no plans and now they do.

I have no plans to visit Australia.

Things change,
 
Archer's citation covers the matter rather completely.

What has changed that lead to the shift? It wasn't a technical matter.
 
I know I'm all over the place, sorry in advance!

Your article is on point, but regardless of the subscription cost (can't at least pay annually), naming convention (Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Classic Creative Cloud), the future plans or not; Classic CC is currently broken!

I'm actively subscribed and couldn't even get to their support line on their website. The writing is on the wall, but I can't believe we're STILL SO LIMITED in options/competitors. I've spent 2 months testing every other solution out there. Each has some major limitation compared to Lightroom. Nothing seems to smoothly support colorspaces like prophoto, have an efficient DAM, be touchscreen and keyboard friendly, and those virtual copies save me ton of drive space. Especially if I was to perform a mass export to DNG (still not supported by other solutions) or TIFF.

DETAILS: Windows and OSX users with screaming i7 SSD systems are hobbling along and having to go back to the 2015 version after a month of fiddling with the CCC version. I've even tried it on a clean SSD and fresh Windows installation.

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forums.adobe.com

Heck give me modern versions of PC Tools for Windows (a file viewer and search tool that worked) and the Microsoft JPG Editor from Office 2007 (but with raw support and production UI) and I'd be all set!

PS Have you ever tried to quickly print a 4x6" from Lightroom? LOL
 
There seems to be a theme in this thread amongst some contributors that Adobe is eventually going to abandon desktop users and move everyone to some mobile based cloud environment.

If you think about it this doesnt make any sense. Within the major software manufacturers, the two companies who existence is based most on the existence of the 'desktop' are Microsoft and Adobe. The chances are if you are an Adobe customer the feeling is mutual on the basis that the underlying hardware build of your desktop was made to service Adobe software especially if you use Photoshop, Premiere and After Effects. By that I mean your processor, ram, multiple SSDs, video card, monitors and many TB of HDD. And this will continue, 6k Red footage works out at 2 hours per TB.

Unfortunately, for Adobe many people are embracing a mobile environment - I am sure it is absolutely the last thing they want but it is happening. So just like Microsoft they are introducing a 'mobile strategy' partly to net a small portion of the mobile crowd but also to give a mobile strategy to their desktop users.

But thinking that Adobe wants to move people assets from the desktop to the cloud and mobile device is akin to claiming that Windows introduced Windows mobile and Onedrive to move people away from the desktop to smartphones.
 
Abrak said:
There seems to be a theme in this thread amongst some contributors that Adobe is eventually going to abandon desktop users and move everyone to some mobile based cloud environment.

If you think about it this doesnt make any sense. Within the major software manufacturers, the two companies who existence is based most on the existence of the 'desktop' are Microsoft and Adobe. The chances are if you are an Adobe customer the feeling is mutual on the basis that the underlying hardware build of your desktop was made to service Adobe software especially if you use Photoshop, Premiere and After Effects. By that I mean your processor, ram, multiple SSDs, video card, monitors and many TB of HDD. And this will continue, 6k Red footage works out at 2 hours per TB.

Unfortunately, for Adobe many people are embracing a mobile environment - I am sure it is absolutely the last thing they want but it is happening. So just like Microsoft they are introducing a 'mobile strategy' partly to net a small portion of the mobile crowd but also to give a mobile strategy to their desktop users.

But thinking that Adobe wants to move people assets from the desktop to the cloud and mobile device is akin to claiming that Windows introduced Windows mobile and Onedrive to move people away from the desktop to smartphones.
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DerKeyser said:
The new CC is and will absolutely also be a desktop App. Currently it is a cloudsync app with local cache, and in the near future it will probably feature selective sync as well in order to be able to replace classic.
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So what's the problem ?

Isn't that what some whiners have asked for, a new app built from the scratch ?
 
Archer66 said:
DerKeyser said:
The new CC is and will absolutely also be a desktop App. Currently it is a cloudsync app with local cache, and in the near future it will probably feature selective sync as well in order to be able to replace classic.
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So what's the problem ?

Isn't that what some whiners have asked for, a new app built from the scratch ?
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I think his issue is that he, along with some others, seem to think that if Adobe rolls them into one application, that they will "force" users to use their cloud storage and only their cloud storage?

I think that's where he's going.

Which is absurd.

He uses terms like, "Lightroom as we know it is going to die."

Hell, in the information technology era in which we live, everything as we know it has already died, yet here we are. Mobile platforms comprise the majority of world wide web traffic. The www as we knew it in 1999 has "died.' But you don't see desktop users suddenly shut out. No development of internet destinations are mobile only. Instead, what has happened is that developers have evolved to accommodate BOTH users.

Adobe forcing everyone to use their cloud storage is as absurd as Amazon only developing their site to accommodate mobile users only. Also, even though e-commerce outpaces brick and mortar purchases, what is Amazon doing? They're expanding into brick and mortar.

I mention this to counter the other absurd notion thrown out by some that no company is going to develop and maintain two applications for the same thing.

Wrong on so many levels. Amazon mentioned above is one example. Microsoft's tiered solutions are another example. Almost every website you visit on the internet is another example in that there are two versions of almost every website you visit; one optimized for mobile, one for desktops. Over the last few years, developers have basically rolled them into one that serves both.

I could go on, but I won't because there are some who just simply like to pontificate doom and gloom no matter how much logic and reason you throw at them.

You can't counter belief with logic because belief does not require logic.
 
I can't see what your problem is.

jules
DerKeyser said:
Like many of you on this forum the new lightroom situation has left me with some heavy choices to make.

I have put together a little writeup of my analysis of the situation. I have been working with commercial IT and infrastructure development for 25 years. Maybe my analysis, thoughts and reasoning can help you making your decision?

You can find it here: http://wolffmadsen.dk/articles/rip-lightroom/
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DerKeyser said:
Abrak said:
There seems to be a theme in this thread amongst some contributors that Adobe is eventually going to abandon desktop users and move everyone to some mobile based cloud environment.

If you think about it this doesnt make any sense. Within the major software manufacturers, the two companies who existence is based most on the existence of the 'desktop' are Microsoft and Adobe. The chances are if you are an Adobe customer the feeling is mutual on the basis that the underlying hardware build of your desktop was made to service Adobe software especially if you use Photoshop, Premiere and After Effects. By that I mean your processor, ram, multiple SSDs, video card, monitors and many TB of HDD. And this will continue, 6k Red footage works out at 2 hours per TB.

Unfortunately, for Adobe many people are embracing a mobile environment - I am sure it is absolutely the last thing they want but it is happening. So just like Microsoft they are introducing a 'mobile strategy' partly to net a small portion of the mobile crowd but also to give a mobile strategy to their desktop users.

But thinking that Adobe wants to move people assets from the desktop to the cloud and mobile device is akin to claiming that Windows introduced Windows mobile and Onedrive to move people away from the desktop to smartphones.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Archer66 said:
Isn't that what some whiners have asked for, a new app built from the scratch ?
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Most people have been asking for a LR code refactor so it runs faster on CPUs better than the Sandy Bridge i7-2600k. Not a new app, and certainly not a new paradigm.

CPUs have moved beyond quad core, but most of Adobe functions see no benefit. For me, the Classic release did deliver much faster import action.
 
Archer66 said:
DerKeyser said:
The new CC is and will absolutely also be a desktop App. Currently it is a cloudsync app with local cache, and in the near future it will probably feature selective sync as well in order to be able to replace classic.
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So what's the problem ?

Isn't that what some whiners have asked for, a new app built from the scratch ?
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Certainly - me included. I just did not ask for a whole new paradigm, look and learning curve :-)
I asked for a rewrite of the slow and un-optimized code in Lightroom (Classic).

It will now be a completely new application, it is subscription only, and there will be some element of cloudstorage subscription needed - depending on how they "allow" for local only storage. It's a complete reboot for my workflow.

That is no different than choosing any other new workflow/photo solution. Why would I choose this when I'm not into the whole subscription thingy? That's the whole point of my articles - I'm actually a little baffled that this eludes you.
I get it guy's, you love adobe - I don't. I LOVE Lightroom 6 (except it's performance), but I do not love Adobe because their code is SOO slow and un-optimized.

And yes, I know - you firmly believe Classic will stay around - Good for you. Im 99.99% sure it will go away within a few years, and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise because it is SO obvious from Adobes Communication, marketing, nameing and so forth. So let's not argue on this point any more :-)

Let's get this thread back on track: What to do if you believe Lightroom Classic is dead in a few years?
 
Patsy Murphy said:
Could'nt agree more. Tom Hogarty was shafted by Adobe and whats the betting they will do it again, some people never learn.

Regards Patsym
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So true, but the pay must be good enough for him to accept it once more even though it will wipe out the last whisper of trust that can be placed in him.

I'm guessing he's convincing himself that the new Lightroom CC will be so good at the time Classic retires, that not to many people will cry foul game again.
And for all I know, he might be right. The new paradigm is certainly the right one for the young generation. It's just that Lightroom is used by a massive group of people that are old, conservative and focusing on their images instead of having to learn new software :-)
 
Archer66 said:
DerKeyser said:
having to learn new software :-)
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Finally you give the real reason.
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it's odd that you think this is a bad, or silly reason. And a rather inappropriate cutting of the rest of his sentence.

LR is a tool, not the product. Same with Windows 10. When I was 21, I was excited by a new OS release (dos 6). I had nothing better to do with my time, apparently. Now I have years of backlog of vacation and hobby photos to process. I could spend time doing that, or learning how to use a different tool. For the professionals, this is a no brainer. With a few exceptions, Adobe isn't paying them to migrate on to their new revenue model.
 
Archer66 said:
DerKeyser said:
having to learn new software :-)
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Finally you give the real reason.
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I really really fail to understand how you can read my first article in any other way than concluding I like lightroom as it is (except performance), and that I'd rather not change that workflow.

Having to learn new software is certainly one of the things i'd prefer to avoid, but it is neither the ONLY reason nor the most important reason. The primary reason is just sadness that Lightroom perpetual is gone and that Classic will follow suit in a couple of years. Because that forces me to rethink a workflow I really really like.
 
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