Day three (closing thoughts regarding the G1X III)

I am not sure how much benefit there would be to enabling continuous AF when also using servo AF. The former would always be running AF, where the latter would run the AF continuously only with a half press pf the shutter.

Can you reassign the video record button or * button for back button focus?

I would think the ideal setup would be to disable continuous AF, but utilize servo AF, ideally with BBF.

Lightgreen said:

Turned off continuous AF, and went back to my "old ways" of shootings with single shot and half-pressing the shutter in prep for shots with Smooth Zone AF or Single point. I used L + tracking on 1-2 of these, can't remember which.

Focus is nice and crispy now.

It does reveal that the lens is as soft as I've suggested, that is it's not as sharp as a kit lens on a Rebel or EOS M, but, it's better than any of the 1" PowerShot G's...

These are SOOC JPEGs, not my usual RAW converter to JPEG. Time constraint tonight, apologies. I shot large JPEG + RAW today anticipating I might have a time crunch tonight. Talk about results tomorrow...

Click to expand...

Looking these shots i get the feeling things will look sharper once the camera is supported in ACR - my 5D3 almost went back to the shop because of JPEGS making me think everything was alittle soft until ACR supported it (lightroom is integral to my digital life so not even going to contemplate anything else)

Yeah - is there a button assignable for back button focus? - although it might not be as usable on such a small camera grip wise compared to a 5D size body.

--

nnowak said:

I am not sure how much benefit there would be to enabling continuous AF when also using servo AF. The former would always be running AF, where the latter would run the AF continuously only with a half press pf the shutter.

Can you reassign the video record button or * button for back button focus?

I would think the ideal setup would be to disable continuous AF, but utilize servo AF, ideally with BBF.

Click to expand...

Agree, if possible on this camera, BBF in aiservo is how professional pj shooters shoot

mu55 said:

Lightgreen said:

Turned off continuous AF, and went back to my "old ways" of shootings with single shot and half-pressing the shutter in prep for shots with Smooth Zone AF or Single point. I used L + tracking on 1-2 of these, can't remember which.

Focus is nice and crispy now.

It does reveal that the lens is as soft as I've suggested, that is it's not as sharp as a kit lens on a Rebel or EOS M, but, it's better than any of the 1" PowerShot G's...

These are SOOC JPEGs, not my usual RAW converter to JPEG. Time constraint tonight, apologies. I shot large JPEG + RAW today anticipating I might have a time crunch tonight. Talk about results tomorrow...

Click to expand...

Looking these shots i get the feeling things will look sharper once the camera is supported in ACR - my 5D3 almost went back to the shop because of JPEGS making me think everything was alittle soft until ACR supported it (lightroom is integral to my digital life so not even going to contemplate anything else)
Yeah - is there a button assignable for back button focus? - although it might not be as usable on such a small camera grip wise compared to a 5D size body.

--

Click to expand...

LR is my choice too, I have the latest individual copy, but refuse to pay $120 per year rental ransom

mu55 said:

http://www.simonanders.com/sig.jpg

Click to expand...

Lightgreen said:

These are SOOC JPEGs, not my usual RAW converter to JPEG. Time constraint tonight, apologies. I shot large JPEG + RAW today anticipating I might have a time crunch tonight. Talk about results tomorrow...

Click to expand...

Much better! It`s a decent result. Colors and resolution are good.

Please post SOOC jpgs.

Thanx.

Member said:

Lightgreen wrote...

Cons:

Price (although competitive against say the X100F, and close to the RX100 V; I'd say all the above are insane, like the latest smartphones are, in pricing, yet people like myself pay it).

No 4k; granted I personally have no need for it yet as I still have a 1080 TV, but seriously Canon, this is a control freak thing at this point. Be nice to future proof my content even if I can't use it now / too lazy to downsample it to better 1080P. I'm going to buy a 4k 65" or larger TV (probably) in the next 2 days. That's a real shame as I have my personal videos tied into my NAS for TV viewing and the kids love it.

Click to expand...

I'm not really into video but I do want any future cameras to have 4K capability. The reason for this is to be able to extract 8MP stills from the 4K footage.

Jim said:

Jim said:

Lightgreen wrote...

Cons:

Price (although competitive against say the X100F, and close to the RX100 V; I'd say all the above are insane, like the latest smartphones are, in pricing, yet people like myself pay it).

No 4k; granted I personally have no need for it yet as I still have a 1080 TV, but seriously Canon, this is a control freak thing at this point. Be nice to future proof my content even if I can't use it now / too lazy to downsample it to better 1080P. I'm going to buy a 4k 65" or larger TV (probably) in the next 2 days. That's a real shame as I have my personal videos tied into my NAS for TV viewing and the kids love it.

Click to expand...

I'm not really into video but I do want any future cameras to have 4K capability. The reason for this is to be able to extract 8MP stills from the 4K footage.

Click to expand...

That is just the beginning. Take a look at what Panasonic is doing with their latest cameras. They are pushing the video pipeline to shoot 2 seconds of video with 18MP frames. How you trigger the 2 seconds is also adjustable. In one mode the camera records continuously, but only writes to the card with the second before and the second after you press the shutter button.

TinLo said:

Lightgreen said:

These are SOOC JPEGs, not my usual RAW converter to JPEG. Time constraint tonight, apologies. I shot large JPEG + RAW today anticipating I might have a time crunch tonight. Talk about results tomorrow...

Click to expand...

Much better! It`s a decent result. Colors and resolution are good.

Please post SOOC jpgs.

Thanx.

Click to expand...

Those are SOOC JPEGs. I am using the lowest noise reduction, and Fine Detail picture style with +1 saturation and +1 color tone. Samples up to now, have been RAWs converted to JPEG, with peripheral illumination and distortion corrections applied at default levels through DPP4. They also until now, have been using continuous AF, which appears to be the culprit here of reduced AF accuracy.

(Almost) All the shots I took yesterday match the AF accuracy of the samples posted.

The increased sharpness/AF accuracy is a result of disabling the continuous AF mode which these cameras ship with enabled. The M5 which I owned immediately prior to the G1X III, also ships with it on. I found very early on with the M5 however that continuous AF caused delays in accessing menus, and, caused a lot of battery drain in addition my EF-M lenses were constantly whirling back and forth, thus I disabled it. With the G1X III however, I left it on as it didn't cause any of the above. My guess is Canon fixed the bug with the continuous AF software on the G1X III by lowering it's priority over user inputs, and with the lens on the G1X III being an inner focus mechanism, it's highly responsive, and doesn't make noise like my EF-M's would be whiling back and forth all the time with it on, and draining the battery in the process. But, it would appear it's the culprit for the AF accuracy being lost as now my G1X III behaves like my former M5 with it off, in terms of AF accuracy (sharp) and first focus speed (slower).

There is a trade off here, the Continuous AF works REALLY well on the G1X III, whereas on the M5 it did not. On the G1X III, it does what it's supposed to, gives the AF a head start on establishing focus; to be honest it's been beneficial as it makes the camera more "fun" as AF (appears) virtually instantaneous. Really it's just been "artificially" propped up by continuous AF. Some of the shots I've gotten previously, I wouldn't have gotten on my former M5, particularly some of the "harder" ones like in the trampoline, those are nearly impossible without a bullet proof AF like my former 5DIII. I've found turning it off improves AF accuracy with AI servo, too. Interestingly, reviewing my former samples, continuous AF does not impact static subjects. My theory, which is just that, as I don't have any facts or statements from Canon or others to back it, just merely the evidence in my experience and samples both posted (and ones I didn't post, I shoot a lot if you can't tell), is that perhaps some of the secret sauce here that's making the continuous AF help the G1X III in AF speed, is it may be using the last established AF point when you fire, to help speed up AF responsiveness when continuous AF is used. The downside is if your subject has changed position, even a mm, it'll hit. It has the effect of a micro AF un-balance (very DSLR like) as I previously commented, it's confirmed now.

My former M5 never had continuous AF working nearly as well, hence I recommend disabling it on the EOS Ms, btw. Hence I never got this far as it was disabled 99% of my shooting "career" on the M5.

One could argue back button focus, and disabling it, sure. I personally don't care for BBF focus and instead prefer half depressing the shutter constantly to re-confirm focus, kinda me doing a continuous AF myself. Sure, I could end up with an undesired focus this way, or unneeded focusing, but, I never could get the hang of BBF.

Really this smells to me of Canon may either need to "fix" continuous AF by adding another additional AF confirmation in lieu of using the last cached AF, or, perhaps it's by design. I'll be honest, the speed enhancement is beefy with it on, and the microAF woes are acceptable in most circumstances, in my eyes (granted other folks, particularly pros, will disagree here, but most amateurs won't mind).

I'm either going to setup my camera with continuous AF on, and assign C1 or C2 to having it off as you can't assign continuous AF to a button or quick menu, or vica versa and assign a C mode to it being on and leave it off. I haven't decided yet as there is a huge speed benefit to having it on with my shooting style, but obviously at some cost for shallow DOF "candid" opportunities.

Lightgreen said:

Turned off continuous AF, and went back to my "old ways" of shootings with single shot and half-pressing the shutter in prep for shots with Smooth Zone AF or Single point. I used L + tracking on 1-2 of these, can't remember which.

Focus is nice and crispy now.

It does reveal that the lens is as soft as I've suggested, that is it's not as sharp as a kit lens on a Rebel or EOS M, but, it's better than any of the 1" PowerShot G's...

These are SOOC JPEGs, not my usual RAW converter to JPEG. Time constraint tonight, apologies. I shot large JPEG + RAW today anticipating I might have a time crunch tonight. Talk about results tomorrow...

Click to expand...

Can you take the identical by your Sony RX 100 V?

coody said:

Lightgreen said:

Turned off continuous AF, and went back to my "old ways" of shootings with single shot and half-pressing the shutter in prep for shots with Smooth Zone AF or Single point. I used L + tracking on 1-2 of these, can't remember which.

Focus is nice and crispy now.

It does reveal that the lens is as soft as I've suggested, that is it's not as sharp as a kit lens on a Rebel or EOS M, but, it's better than any of the 1" PowerShot G's...

These are SOOC JPEGs, not my usual RAW converter to JPEG. Time constraint tonight, apologies. I shot large JPEG + RAW today anticipating I might have a time crunch tonight. Talk about results tomorrow...

Click to expand...

Can you take the identical by your Sony RX 100 V?

Click to expand...

I don't have a RX100 V; I briefly "had" a RX100 III, that is I had an extended outing with it and was allowed to keep the samples.

I do plan to shoot a RX100 V next to my G1X III next time I get out to BestBuy and am permitted to do so as you have to find a nice rep that will allow you to access the SD card slot as those usually are covered by the security device.

Truth told, I suspect someone will beat me to this punch now that the G1X III is officially launched as of today... The masses now have access to it and other folks will be weighing in on it, that may already own a RX100 III/IV/V.

Lightgreen said:

Turned off continuous AF, and went back to my "old ways" of shootings with single shot and half-pressing the shutter in prep for shots with Smooth Zone AF or Single point. I used L + tracking on 1-2 of these, can't remember which.

Focus is nice and crispy now.

It does reveal that the lens is as soft as I've suggested, that is it's not as sharp as a kit lens on a Rebel or EOS M, but, it's better than any of the 1" PowerShot G's...

Click to expand...

These are the settings I would have used myself, so don't mind the people who always blame the photographer instead of the camera.

Lightgreen said:

coody said:

Lightgreen said:

Turned off continuous AF, and went back to my "old ways" of shootings with single shot and half-pressing the shutter in prep for shots with Smooth Zone AF or Single point. I used L + tracking on 1-2 of these, can't remember which.

Focus is nice and crispy now.

It does reveal that the lens is as soft as I've suggested, that is it's not as sharp as a kit lens on a Rebel or EOS M, but, it's better than any of the 1" PowerShot G's...

These are SOOC JPEGs, not my usual RAW converter to JPEG. Time constraint tonight, apologies. I shot large JPEG + RAW today anticipating I might have a time crunch tonight. Talk about results tomorrow...

Click to expand...

Can you take the identical by your Sony RX 100 V?

Click to expand...

I don't have a RX100 V; I briefly "had" a RX100 III, that is I had an extended outing with it and was allowed to keep the samples.

I do plan to shoot a RX100 V next to my G1X III next time I get out to BestBuy and am permitted to do so as you have to find a nice rep that will allow you to access the SD card slot as those usually are covered by the security device.

Truth told, I suspect someone will beat me to this punch now that the G1X III is officially launched as of today... The masses now have access to it and other folks will be weighing in on it, that may already own a RX100 III/IV/V.

Click to expand...

How about comparing with your Sony RX100 III by taking some identical pictures? People may be interested in your comparing. If you had RX100 V, you could compare the AF etc. But, the sharpness and low light results should be able to compare between the G1X III and Sony RX 100 III. Thank you for providing people so much thoughts.

telefunk said:

Lightgreen said:

Turned off continuous AF, and went back to my "old ways" of shootings with single shot and half-pressing the shutter in prep for shots with Smooth Zone AF or Single point. I used L + tracking on 1-2 of these, can't remember which.

Focus is nice and crispy now.

It does reveal that the lens is as soft as I've suggested, that is it's not as sharp as a kit lens on a Rebel or EOS M, but, it's better than any of the 1" PowerShot G's...

Click to expand...

These are the settings I would have used myself, so don't mind the people who always blame the photographer instead of the camera.

Click to expand...

Yup. As a former M6 shooter yourself, you can expect the same performance as the M6 on the G1X III. The lens is just a bit softer then the 15-45, and I mean just a bit. It's easily 80% as good (if not better), and it's 80% as good in sharpness while also being 2/3 faster on the wide end and 1/3 stop faster on the long end and having 10cm macro, and oh by the way, smaller.

I completely agree, if you're fussing over AF values, you're going to miss the shot. That's why leaving continuous AF on, and putting up with the slight AF variance, is largely acceptable because you'll get the shot. You can turn it off for critical sharpness shots, or visa versa. You don't want to be mucking with AF in your moment of triumph.

I don't mind, I stick to my guns when I know I'm right. I just didn't know the continuous AF caused minor AF drift, till yesterday. And frankly, it's not a big deal as it gives you a solid 50% AF performance improvement at maybe a 5% AF accuracy "cost" That 5% can drive some folks nuts though.

coody said:

How about comparing with your Sony RX100 III by taking some identical pictures? People may be interested in your comparing. If you had RX100 V, you could compare the AF etc. But, the sharpness and low light results should be able to compare between the G1X III and Sony RX 100 III. Thank you for providing people so much thoughts.

Click to expand...

Those shots were 3 years ago, when I lived somewhere else. It wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison. I can drudge them up still, if you'd like, to give you a general feel of the difference. But, DPR is already full of samples from the III/IV/V as is. Just not the G1X III...

I'd need to shoot them side by side to give a true comparison that you couldn't already draw otherwise.

The only thing I can offer is my impression, which is the G1X III has stronger overall IQ over the RX100 III that I handled 3 years ago. The RX100 III, left me wanting for better IQ. I settled on an EOS M shortly after and was happy with the IQ, but not AF. The G1X III gives me the best of both worlds, better IQ, and better AF, and, coat-pocketable.

nnowak said:

Jim said:

nnowak said:

Lightgreen wrote...

Cons:

Price (although competitive against say the X100F, and close to the RX100 V; I'd say all the above are insane, like the latest smartphones are, in pricing, yet people like myself pay it).

No 4k; granted I personally have no need for it yet as I still have a 1080 TV, but seriously Canon, this is a control freak thing at this point. Be nice to future proof my content even if I can't use it now / too lazy to downsample it to better 1080P. I'm going to buy a 4k 65" or larger TV (probably) in the next 2 days. That's a real shame as I have my personal videos tied into my NAS for TV viewing and the kids love it.

Click to expand...

I'm not really into video but I do want any future cameras to have 4K capability. The reason for this is to be able to extract 8MP stills from the 4K footage.

Click to expand...

That is just the beginning. Take a look at what Panasonic is doing with their latest cameras. They are pushing the video pipeline to shoot 2 seconds of video with 18MP frames. How you trigger the 2 seconds is also adjustable. In one mode the camera records continuously, but only writes to the card with the second before and the second after you press the shutter button.

Click to expand...

Very interesting...and even better. Thanks for letting me know as I didn't realize that.

Jim

Lightgreen, forgive me if I overlooked it, but how did you use the camera for the pics shown? Were you mostly using the viewfinder? Or did you use the swivel screen, & how was it used? Flat against the body or swiveled away. I'm used to the flip up screen on my NEX-5 & am wondering if I could get used to this swivel. I do like the way it can be swiveled with the screen against the camera for protection when carrying. Thanks, john

jpd555 said:

Lightgreen, forgive me if I overlooked it, but how did you use the camera for the pics shown? Were you mostly using the viewfinder? Or did you use the swivel screen, & how was it used? Flat against the body or swiveled away. I'm used to the flip up screen on my NEX-5 & am wondering if I could get used to this swivel. I do like the way it can be swiveled with the screen against the camera for protection when carrying. Thanks, john

Click to expand...

(Electronic) Viewfinder. I'm a die hard viewfinder person. My first camera was a HP point and shoot (with a viewfinder), and then a Kodak, and then a Canon Powershot, but I've been pretty "hooked" on using viewfinders for framing... My brain is "wired" to frame in a viewfinder. I've adapted to using a (touch) screen between the S110 and again when I got my G1X II and then EOS M and M2 after it, but viewfinders, there's something special about em.

I used to have a swivel on my former T3i years ago, never used it swivel-d out much. Truth told I did exactly what you did, kept it swiveled in, for most of the life of my former Rebel T3i.

On the G1X III on the other hand, I've used it (swiveled, not just exposed) on and off. I leave the screen exposed and let the camera bounce at my side, as I've done with my G1X II, EOS M, M2, M3 and M5 before it. Never had an issue.

I used to have a tilty on the EOS M3 and then M5 before this, and one of my minor concerns was adapting back to a swivel, which I'd used maybe 3 times over the 1-2 years I had a T3i.

It has been pretty seamless though. The biggest issue has been, and still is, remember which way to tilt it after you swivel it out. Usually I tilt it the wrong way. Minor learning curve. I use the EVF for <75% of my shooting, use the touchscreen held out about 20% of the time and use the touchscreen, swiveled, around >5% of the time.

Pretty much the way I shoot is frame with the EVF, I'll hold it away from me via smartphone status if it's like food, object, something at a weird-er angle, and finally if I need to reach an extreme angle, say shoot over a crowd, or want a low angle to mimic child's point of view, etc, I'll swivel it, for those occasions. For self-portraits, I have used it twice for "selfie's" but really you want to use the camera connect app and bluetooth/wifi shoot yourself from your phone. Beats a timer and a tripod.

Lightgreen said:

jpd555 said:

Lightgreen, forgive me if I overlooked it, but how did you use the camera for the pics shown? Were you mostly using the viewfinder? Or did you use the swivel screen, & how was it used? Flat against the body or swiveled away. I'm used to the flip up screen on my NEX-5 & am wondering if I could get used to this swivel. I do like the way it can be swiveled with the screen against the camera for protection when carrying. Thanks, john

Click to expand...

(Electronic) Viewfinder. I'm a die hard viewfinder person. My first camera was a HP point and shoot (with a viewfinder), and then a Kodak, and then a Canon Powershot, but I've been pretty "hooked" on using viewfinders for framing... My brain is "wired" to frame in a viewfinder. I've adapted to using a (touch) screen between the S110 and again when I got my G1X II and then EOS M and M2 after it, but viewfinders, there's something special about em.

I used to have a swivel on my former T3i years ago, never used it swivel-d out much. Truth told I did exactly what you did, kept it swiveled in, for most of the life of my former Rebel T3i.

On the G1X III on the other hand, I've used it (swiveled, not just exposed) on and off. I leave the screen exposed and let the camera bounce at my side, as I've done with my G1X II, EOS M, M2, M3 and M5 before it. Never had an issue.

I used to have a tilty on the EOS M3 and then M5 before this, and one of my minor concerns was adapting back to a swivel, which I'd used maybe 3 times over the 1-2 years I had a T3i.

It has been pretty seamless though. The biggest issue has been, and still is, remember which way to tilt it after you swivel it out. Usually I tilt it the wrong way. Minor learning curve. I use the EVF for <75% of my shooting, use the touchscreen held out about 20% of the time and use the touchscreen, swiveled, around >5% of the time.

Pretty much the way I shoot is frame with the EVF, I'll hold it away from me via smartphone status if it's like food, object, something at a weird-er angle, and finally if I need to reach an extreme angle, say shoot over a crowd, or want a low angle to mimic child's point of view, etc, I'll swivel it, for those occasions. For self-portraits, I have used it twice for "selfie's" but really you want to use the camera connect app and bluetooth/wifi shoot yourself from your phone. Beats a timer and a tripod.

Click to expand...

No face detection in LV?

MAC said:

No face detection in LV?

Click to expand...

I use face detection in LV, it works even better on the G1X III as a matter of a fact vs the M5.

As I said, the AF firmware has gotten smarter, even though it's the same DPAF APS-C with a DIGIC7 as the M5, Canon's obviously beefed up their AF algorithms and baked em into the G1X III.

I am, however, gravitating towards treating my G1X III more like my former M5, that is favoring Smooth Zone AF and Single point (neither of which use face detection), with continuous AF off. I'll try that for a while, probably a week, see if I prefer tack sharp focus, or the speed of continuous AF on, but leave Live + tracking as the AF method if so.

If you leave continuous AF on, Live + tracking works REALLY well on the G1X III, that is you can just set it, and forget it. It'll think for you, and when you need to override, tap your subject, bam, done. Very simple, very fast, very effective. Comes at the cost of micro AF, but that's a small price to pay for just focusing on shooting, and never touching your AF setup. You'll get samples akin to the ones before yesterday.

The problem with the M5, is that with DPAF, it (DPAF) feeds the DIGIC7 alot of data, if you confine it's AF search parameters it becomes much more responsive as it's less data it has to process. Thus smooth zone AF and single point lead to better results on it. On the G1X III, they've improved continuous AF, and the search algorithms to bridge the gap, now the DIGIC7 can chomp the data efficiently in Live + tracking (auto).

The other issue I've found is AI servo on the EOS M5, leads to slight shifts in focus, thus I used single shot all the time, and AI servo only as needed for tracking sports activities, kids in swings, bikes, etc etc. Continuous AF appears to also lead to this slight shift in focus, I just didn't put two and two together to make four till yesterday.

I need to test both together, that is continuous AF and AI Servo and see if it too leads to additional drift. Probably not since continuous AF appears to operate in the same way servo does, it's just doing it automatically on the subject it thinks you might shoot next behind the scenes. It's kinda nice actually is you get to see focus instantly as you pan the camera.

Lightgreen said:

Member said:

No face detection in LV?

Click to expand...

I use face detection in LV, it works even better on the G1X III as a matter of a fact vs the M5.

As I said, the AF firmware has gotten smarter, even though it's the same DPAF APS-C with a DIGIC7 as the M5, Canon's obviously beefed up their AF algorithms and baked em into the G1X III.

I am, however, gravitating towards treating my G1X III more like my former M5, that is favoring Smooth Zone AF and Single point (neither of which use face detection), with continuous AF off. I'll try that for a while, probably a week, see if I prefer tack sharp focus, or the speed of continuous AF on, but leave Live + tracking as the AF method if so.

If you leave continuous AF on, Live + tracking works REALLY well on the G1X III, that is you can just set it, and forget it. It'll think for you, and when you need to override, tap your subject, bam, done. Very simple, very fast, very effective. Comes at the cost of micro AF, but that's a small price to pay for just focusing on shooting, and never touching your AF setup. You'll get samples akin to the ones before yesterday.

The problem with the M5, is that with DPAF, it (DPAF) feeds the DIGIC7 alot of data, if you confine it's AF search parameters it becomes much more responsive as it's less data it has to process. Thus smooth zone AF and single point lead to better results on it. On the G1X III, they've improved continuous AF, and the search algorithms to bridge the gap, now the DIGIC7 can chomp the data efficiently in Live + tracking (auto).

The other issue I've found is AI servo on the EOS M5, leads to slight shifts in focus, thus I used single shot all the time, and AI servo only as needed for tracking sports activities, kids in swings, bikes, etc etc. Continuous AF appears to also lead to this slight shift in focus, I just didn't put two and two together to make four till yesterday.

I need to test both together, that is continuous AF and AI Servo and see if it too leads to additional drift. Probably not since continuous AF appears to operate in the same way servo does, it's just doing it automatically on the subject it thinks you might shoot next behind the scenes. It's kinda nice actually is you get to see focus instantly as you pan the camera.

Click to expand...

So I grew up with the 5 d classic

AI focus was a joke

AI Servo with back button focus was the way to shoot

I turned a bad hit rate into a good hit rate by back button focus and punching the button with my thumb 3 times before shooting

you can’t do that with half press of the shutter button

try it - 3 quick punches with your thumb and shoot on the last one with your thumb pressed