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Another perspective on D850
- Thread starter hikerdoc
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- nikon d5 nikon d850
That is correct. You have to pin point the right gear for one's personal needs. After such a long long time that's what I have finally done myself. I have pin pointed it to the pentax K1 and I will be ordering one within the next two weeks or so. It has taken a really long time to find and try just the right camera that I really like and connect with and I finally found it.
I will keep my D4 and lenses for now and I'll probably also wait to see what rumors start to come out regarding Nikon's mirrorless camera for I need at least one FF mirrorless system. Who knows what lenses will be required for that new system so we will see what happens then.
Hi, an interesting article in that it highlights the different needs/desires? of photographers. I might buy his arguments if I was shooting controlled scenes with set distances or even know the venue, again with known distances, but might need the high ISO but........ I normally don't have that luxury. I shoot events and sports, am getting more into landscapes but of the walkaround variety, and also portraiture with varying scenes and backdrops with no time to setup a controlled situation. For me resolution is highly desirable, the more the better. I crop a lot. For reach, composition, you name it and I value resolution and have come to rely on it as I can't control the settings most of the time.
I also have trouble understanding the "I don't need or want 36MP or 45MP images". Except for storage which is cheap where is the downside to bigger files? Information is information and I don't feel you can have too much. I edit my daughter's 16 MP images all the time and notice no difference (except for image quality and color accuracy) from my 36MP images as far as workflow goes. I like having the detail if I need it. It is just a tool that helps me in situations where either detail or cropping ability are wanted. I also believe it makes a difference, at times, in color accuracy but this is highly dependent on the situation.
I agree with him totally that you need confidence in your equipment which allows you to concentrate on other aspects of the shoot. That is why I always look forward to seeing advancements in digital equipment. My old D90 with an 18-200 or for low light a 50f/1.8D gave me some of my favorite images but I wouldn't want them back. The equipment I have now allows me to explore new methods or difficult lighting scenes with the expectation of getting what I am looking for and many times the delight of a "wow" image.
Thanks for posting the link, it was interesting to see how someone else works and what they want from their equipment,
Pete - One other downside to the large files generated by the D850 is the computer power necessary to edit them. With that said, upgrading your computer for the task is really just part of having the right tools to do the job. If someone thinks that 46 mp is really too much resolution, then another camera might work better for that individual. Of course you can always shoot in 1.2 or DX if you want smaller files from your D850.
It's really same perspective. Some will buy based on want and some others on need. There is nothing wrong with either.
I don't see the niggle on the quality button placement of the D5 or D4 for that matter as I can't see a situation where I want to change quality mid shoot, but that goes to show how important controls and button placement are to some folks and may even trump higher resolution.
I thought the most interesting part was his example of how soft the 25MP mRAW output looks compared to the downsized 25MP file. Quite a performance hit.
fPrime
Hi, I didn't think of computer power. I upgraded 5 years ago because my old single core Celeron PC just didn't cut it even for an old Sony that used the disc. I have added upgrade components as I needed and it still shows no lag in downloading, viewing or PP.
Another thing I didn't think about is a lot of pros use laptops to be able to work on the go and computer power=battery use so smaller files would be desirable there also.
It will be interesting to see if the softness of the smaller images he shot is common,
People all over the place, mainly sales people will tell you "storage is cheap" but yes, there is more to it in all this and it does get very expensive. You really have to pick the right hardware for all this. The software being used also has to do with it. There is a LOT more involved here and some don't understand that.
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sh00t3r
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Yeah. Those mRAWs looked very bad, but then again, shooting that way defeats the whole purpose of this camera. If someone isn't going to shoot full 45 MP images, why bother with the 850? Even then, most people are going to be downsizing those huge files, so again, I question whether 45 MP is really needed at all. I like that the reviewer pointed out that buying new gear is based on individual needs.
True, if one only needs 20-24MP then better to shoot a 24MP body. I think the reason why mRAW is potentially of interest to some here is the prospect of smaller file sizes and less processing burden. Photography Life reported that the DR of mRAW was similar to full RAW but they missed the softening effect that Neil caught.
When some think of downsizing a 45MP file to 25MP they like to believe the noise level would be similar to a photo taken at 25MP natively, but with better acuity from the details captured by D850’s 45MP sensor. Looks like mRAW at least doesn’t deliver on the better acuity part of the in-camera downsizing.
fPrime
For me 45mp is needed and I routinely print images at 24x36 and larger for art shows i sell at. Again use the equipment that suits your needs, not everyone needs 45MP but I do.
T O Shooter
Forum Pro
I think a lot of pros tend to gravitate towards the pro bodies. And you need to need a lot of mp to put up with dealing with processing them.
It's just a matter of buying what suits ones needs.
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A Canon G5 and a bit of Nikon gear.
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Nobody paints like that anymore either. But it can't be wrong to try - Bob Dylan
It's just a matter of buying what suits ones needs.
--
A Canon G5 and a bit of Nikon gear.
---------------------------
Nobody paints like that anymore either. But it can't be wrong to try - Bob Dylan
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michaeladawson
Forum Pro
Yes. Seems hard to believe that the softening is that bad. I'd be interested in seeing confirmation from another user/tester/reviewer on this topic. Given what I saw from Neil mRAW (and probably sRAW) is useless. If I needed 24MP files I'd rather simply use a 24MP body than shoot mRAW.
DigitalFFUser
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I think he already made up his mind about continue using D5 or switching to Sony A9 (highly likely) and just trying to find reasons to convince himself.
WhoopsWrongLens
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Not sure the review supports this conclusion, or that what the camera is doing can be considered "downsizing" in the way you use the term. In his high ISO test, the reviewer shot in full and then downsized to 20mp (to compare to the D5) and was very impressed with the results regarding noise, IQ, and sharpness. From https://neilvn.com/tangents/review-nikon-d850-high-iso-test-nikon-d5-d850-d810-d750/
"The Nikon D5 file at 1600 ISO compared to the full-resolution D850 file, sized down to 20 megapixels. Once you resize the D850 files appropriately, they look remarkably good in terms of the high-ISO noise.
. . .
The Nikon D5 image has smoother high ISO than the D850 full-resolution file scaled down to 20 megapixels, but due to the anti-aliasing filter of the D5, the D5 image is less crisply sharp. The D850 noise at this size looks pretty good for 6400 ISO though, even if the D5 beats it."
i take this to mean that the softness problem is a consequence of the in camera RAW-m process, and a work around would be to shoot at full, then downsize.
This is what I assumed professional photographers would do anyway. I don't understand why one would pay for a 46mp camera if they intended to shoot with half that.
simonkit1
Forum Enthusiast
Makes sense to me... far too many people obsess about owning the latest tech without giving any genuine thought to whether they'll actually see any real benefit of it. the D850 is definitely overkill for some people
Simon
Simon
That's how I see it too. Shooting with full RAW and downsizing in post would resolve the issue. The only thing Neil's review suggests is a limitation to mRAW itself.
Actually a lot of people over-buy when it comes to resolution. Dare it be suggested that most people don't "need" 46MP? Even pros as it turns out? ;-)
fPrime
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Rexgig0
Veteran Member
Interesting article; thanks for posting the link. It is good to see an experienced D5/D810 shooter reviewing the D850.
I learned about a significant negative factor for each camera, D5 and D850. I am seriously considering both.
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I wear a badge and pistol, and make evidentiary images at night, which incorporates elements of portrait, macro, still life, landscape, architecture, and PJ. I enjoy using both Canons and Nikons.
I learned about a significant negative factor for each camera, D5 and D850. I am seriously considering both.
--
I wear a badge and pistol, and make evidentiary images at night, which incorporates elements of portrait, macro, still life, landscape, architecture, and PJ. I enjoy using both Canons and Nikons.
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Tony Beach
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My quick take on what I've read today (both a cursory look at the article being discussed here, along with playing with his ISO 6400 samples; and Thom Hogan's "Nikon Hits and Misses" where he called the D5 "...the best camera Nikon has made" and the D850 "...the best all-around DSLR Nikon has made" -- not sure how to reconcile those two assessments, but) I would say that if you shoot mostly below ISO 3200 and/or want state-of-the-art DX "reach" then the D850 is your choice, if money is no object and you shoot mostly or a lot above ISO 3200 then the D5 is probably the better choice.
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