a7r + Voigtlander lenses?

mattjp1 · Oct 1, 2017

envnews said:
You may also look at manual Contax Zeiss lenses (C/Y Contax Yashica mount). You can adapt them to the A7R with any 15USD dumb adapter. IQ is excellent, they are generally slightly bigger and heavier than Leica M mount (think something in between Leica M mount lenses and DSLR ones), but are generally cheaper (depending on the Leica lens, much much cheaper). They don't suffer from smearing on the Sony A7 series (not even on the mark I ones), as they are designed for traditional 35mm reflex cameras, not for rangefinder.

Excellent ones at the wide end include:

28 f2.8

35 f2.8 or 35 f1.4 (the second being considerably bigger heavier and more expensive)

35-70 f3.4

Good luck

Thanks for the tip I am looking at it now!

ahaslett · Oct 1, 2017

mattjp1 said:
ahaslett said:

The Voigtländer E mount lenses work fine on an A7R. For wide angle MF on a tripod is the way to go. A7R MF aids are excellent.

Coming from an EM10 you will notice the lack of IBIS and EFCS. AF on an A7R is a bit hit and miss with some native lenses. Shuttershock needs careful management.

With lenses you get what you pay for by and large. The modern Voigtländers are pretty good. Whatever you do, don't buy a used 15mm in any mount. The older ones smear the corners and there are a significant number of bad copies from the first production run of the latest ones. I had three bad copies, all new. The fourth copy is excellent, nearly as good as the much more expensive Loxia 21mm.

The A7R has an outstanding sensor in a poor but usable body. Don't worry about the blebbing on the rear screen, it doesn't affect the usability and you can swap the cover if it annoys you.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Joohan · Oct 1, 2017

since you want to d landscape I guess you would like to go wide. Those m-mounts its a clear barrel on the back are not suited. My Voigtlander 28 mm ultranationalist has very bad corners. I would suggest that you look for native mounts like the Loxia series or look for wide dslr shapes (at the cost which of size). I do love my sharp 28 my Sony FE lens.

Juha Kannisto · Oct 1, 2017

mattjp1 said:
Juha Kannisto said:

mattjp1 said:

Juha Kannisto said:

By the way, if the main reason to look into adapted lenses is lens size & weight, there are still those smaller native lenses as well that would be comparable to the Voigtländer lenses + adapter in overall size & weight, sometimes even smaller. Like Sony FE 28/2, Sony Zeiss FE 35/2.8, Sony Zeiss FE 55/1.8, Sony FE 85/1.8. They would all have very nice image quality on A7r as well. I have all of these as well except 35/2.8 which I already sold (I prefer the combo of FE 35/1.4 and Voigtländer 35/1.7).

Click to expand...

Thanks again for all the tips above.

Main reason are basically weight, price and f/. Ideally I want to keep my kit simple, so I'd like to have only fast primes to enjoy night photo too. But the native wide/fast primes of Sony/Zeiss are a bit above my budget.

I've read that Voigtlander will also release a 35mm 1.4 soon (USD 900). So if it performs at least as well as the 35mm 1.7, then there won't be a need for the adaptor which is great. Wait and see until it is tested by others.

I will research more on this shutter issue, thanks for the explanations.

Click to expand...

Thanks!

That 35/1.4 is expected to a native e-mount adaptation of Voigtländer 35/1.4 Nokton Classic for M-mount. It's likely to be quite different from 35/1.7, i.e. it will have more aberrations and character, and will probably not be as good as 35/1.7 as a landscape lens, more like a street shooting lens with some funky classic characteristics. I think it's coming out sometime next year, no release date announced yet. 40/1.2 will probably be more similar to 35/1.7 in image quality but it's of course more expensive and not as small & light.

As for A7r, I think it's an excellent camera in terms of IQ but a bit tricky to use due to the shutter behavior and slowness (quite much shutter lag etc.). Still for landscape use and for still scenery (not action), it's a very nice camera. I continued to use my A7r along with my A7ii as a wide-angle shooter whenever I used 2 cameras at the same time, mostly with FE 16-35/4 and sometimes with Batis 25mm on A7r and longer lenses on A7II. With wide angle lenses the shutter issues have least impact. I also much preferred the shutter position and grip on 2nd generation bodies and A9. Nowadays I'm basically only using my A9.

Click to expand...

Just a last question Juha - apparently the 35/1.7 and 21/1.8 ultron work pretty well with the A7r (at least what I've seen on the internet).

Do both lens work on the same adapter or do you need a specific adapter for each lens?

You can use the same adapter with both, both are M-mount. Then you just mount the lens you want to use on the adapter. Some people prefer to have a dedicated adapter for each lens but I never did that. I used the 21/1.8 with my A7r and it did work pretty well but with some scenes having white or near-white color near the edges there could be some purple color shifting at the edges. It was fairly easy to correct in post processing.

Rol Lei Nut · Oct 1, 2017

mattjp1 said:
Rol Lei Nut said:

Generally speaking (there are very few exceptions), all rangefinder lenses 50mm and above should work well with the A7R.

Rangefinder wides need to be looked at more carefully, especially since the A7R is the A7x camera which is most sensitive to sensor stack/oblique ray type problems.

The older Voigtländer lenses which will definitely result in soft corners and colour shifts are the 21 4.0, 25 4.0, 15 4.5 Mk. I & II, though some people still use and like them stopped down.

Not having an A7R myself, I can't give reliable advice on RF wide angle compatibility (have A7 & A7RII), but the wide angle RF & small SLR WA lens which work well for me are:

Leica Wate 16-18-21 ($$$)

Leica M Summicron 35 2.0 mk. IV ($)

Minolta M-Rokkor 28 2.8 (look up "white spot problem")

Olympus OM 24 2.8 MC

Olympus OM 21 3.5 MC

Olympus OM 18 3.5 ($, but you can get lucky)

Olympus OM 28 3.5

Olympus OM 28 2.0

Pentax K 28 3.5

Rollei Zeiss Distagon (also labelled differently) 35 2.8

Leica R Elmarit 35 2.8 Mk. III (built in shade version - not earlier ones).

as far as other FLs are concerned, there's a huge choice.

Some of my favorite light(ish) landscape lenses:

Rollei or C/Y Zeiss 50 1.4

Rollei Zeiss (also labelled differently) 50 1.8

Rollei Zeiss 85 2.8

Leica M Tele-Elmarit 90 2.8 ($ but very light)

Olympus OM 85 2.0 MC

C/Y Zeiss 85 2.8

C/Y Zeiss 100 3.5

Leica M Tele-Elmar 135 4.0 (outstandingly sharp, affordable but a bit on the heavy side)

Canon FD 80-200 4.0 L

Click to expand...

Thanks for this detailed comparison. What do you think of the Voigtlander 35mm 1.7?

I don't, since I've never used it... ;-)

Zymurgist · Oct 1, 2017

Hi Matt, I have an a7Sii and the lightweight SEL2870 kit lens delivers great pictures for the money. Used lenses in excellent condition can be had on eBay for under $250. It’s 10oz weight would be the best choice for backpacking.

These Voigtlander lenses are very interesting. They look very much like the old 1970’s ish Nikkor lenses I used on my F body. So much so, I wonder if they bought Nikon’s tooling. All you need is a Nikon F to Sony E adapter such as the $100 Metabones unit and you can mount a Nikkor you buy from eBay for a lot less than a new Voigtlander.

Some people may dismiss the Voigtlander for being soft at the edges but this is more of a feature to me. They are very much like my old Nikkors in that respect. When open the Nikkor has a generally soft focus across the image with some of the faster ones having a very shallow depth of field (like ~¼” on my 55mm f1.2) making them very useful in portraiture. When you close the lens down to say f8-f11 they will yield very crisp landscape images.

I'm an analog guy in a digital world.

ahaslett · Oct 1, 2017

Taken with the E mount Voigtländer 15mm.

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin

turnstyle · Oct 1, 2017

I prefer shooting with manual lenses on my A7II, and I've wound up with several Voigtlander items.

I'm using their close-focus adapter, nice to be able to engage when you need it. I expect it's generally most effective with wider lenses.

Of Voigtlander's lenses, I use the 35/1.2, the 21/1.8 and the 12/5.6 -- and I don't regret any of them. (The 12 is obviously a bit extreme.) The 35 and 21 are a bit hefty, but doesn't bother me.

turnstyle · Oct 1, 2017

mattjp1 said:
1. Why did you decide to go with Voigtlander lenses instead of the native Sony/Zeiss?

I actually prefer the adapted Voigtlander to natives because...

1) I believe other manufacturers will finally get in the game -- and if some other manufacturer makes a preferable body, I only need to get a new adapter.

2) I kind of like the "no electronics" aspect, and a lens designed with the intention of manual use

mattjp1 · Oct 1, 2017

Juha Kannisto said:
mattjp1 said:

Juha Kannisto said:

mattjp1 said:

Juha Kannisto said:

By the way, if the main reason to look into adapted lenses is lens size & weight, there are still those smaller native lenses as well that would be comparable to the Voigtländer lenses + adapter in overall size & weight, sometimes even smaller. Like Sony FE 28/2, Sony Zeiss FE 35/2.8, Sony Zeiss FE 55/1.8, Sony FE 85/1.8. They would all have very nice image quality on A7r as well. I have all of these as well except 35/2.8 which I already sold (I prefer the combo of FE 35/1.4 and Voigtländer 35/1.7).

Click to expand...

Thanks again for all the tips above.

Main reason are basically weight, price and f/. Ideally I want to keep my kit simple, so I'd like to have only fast primes to enjoy night photo too. But the native wide/fast primes of Sony/Zeiss are a bit above my budget.

I've read that Voigtlander will also release a 35mm 1.4 soon (USD 900). So if it performs at least as well as the 35mm 1.7, then there won't be a need for the adaptor which is great. Wait and see until it is tested by others.

I will research more on this shutter issue, thanks for the explanations.

Click to expand...

Thanks!

That 35/1.4 is expected to a native e-mount adaptation of Voigtländer 35/1.4 Nokton Classic for M-mount. It's likely to be quite different from 35/1.7, i.e. it will have more aberrations and character, and will probably not be as good as 35/1.7 as a landscape lens, more like a street shooting lens with some funky classic characteristics. I think it's coming out sometime next year, no release date announced yet. 40/1.2 will probably be more similar to 35/1.7 in image quality but it's of course more expensive and not as small & light.

As for A7r, I think it's an excellent camera in terms of IQ but a bit tricky to use due to the shutter behavior and slowness (quite much shutter lag etc.). Still for landscape use and for still scenery (not action), it's a very nice camera. I continued to use my A7r along with my A7ii as a wide-angle shooter whenever I used 2 cameras at the same time, mostly with FE 16-35/4 and sometimes with Batis 25mm on A7r and longer lenses on A7II. With wide angle lenses the shutter issues have least impact. I also much preferred the shutter position and grip on 2nd generation bodies and A9. Nowadays I'm basically only using my A9.

Click to expand...

Just a last question Juha - apparently the 35/1.7 and 21/1.8 ultron work pretty well with the A7r (at least what I've seen on the internet).

Do both lens work on the same adapter or do you need a specific adapter for each lens?

Click to expand...

You can use the same adapter with both, both are M-mount. Then you just mount the lens you want to use on the adapter. Some people prefer to have a dedicated adapter for each lens but I never did that. I used the 21/1.8 with my A7r and it did work pretty well but with some scenes having white or near-white color near the edges there could be some purple color shifting at the edges. It was fairly easy to correct in post processing.

Phew.. good to know.

I came across this video:

Did you encounter this issue at all?

mattjp1 · Oct 1, 2017

turnstyle said:
mattjp1 said:

1. Why did you decide to go with Voigtlander lenses instead of the native Sony/Zeiss?

Click to expand...

I actually prefer the adapted Voigtlander to natives because...

1) I believe other manufacturers will finally get in the game -- and if some other manufacturer makes a preferable body, I only need to get a new adapter.

2) I kind of like the "no electronics" aspect, and a lens designed with the intention of manual use

You must be a way more experienced photographer than I am; my reasons are mainly size and price of the lenses! (+ I admit that the contrast of using a lens from one of the oldest camera makers on one of the most hi-tech cameras, is pretty cool to me).

mattjp1 · Oct 1, 2017

Joohan said:
since you want to d landscape I guess you would like to go wide. Those m-mounts its a clear barrel on the back are not suited. My Voigtlander 28 mm ultranationalist has very bad corners. I would suggest that you look for native mounts like the Loxia series or look for wide dslr shapes (at the cost which of size). I do love my sharp 28 my Sony FE lens.

Thanks for sharing your views Joohan, I will keep that in mind.

Zymurgist · Oct 1, 2017

Nice, I've been thinking about buying on of those instead of a 16-35 zoom. It'll fit right in with my Nikkors.

mattjp1 · Oct 1, 2017

Zymurgist said:
Hi Matt, I have an a7Sii and the lightweight SEL2870 kit lens delivers great pictures for the money. Used lenses in excellent condition can be had on eBay for under $250. It’s 10oz weight would be the best choice for backpacking.

These Voigtlander lenses are very interesting. They look very much like the old 1970’s ish Nikkor lenses I used on my F body. So much so, I wonder if they bought Nikon’s tooling. All you need is a Nikon F to Sony E adapter such as the $100 Metabones unit and you can mount a Nikkor you buy from eBay for a lot less than a new Voigtlander.

Some people may dismiss the Voigtlander for being soft at the edges but this is more of a feature to me. They are very much like my old Nikkors in that respect. When open the Nikkor has a generally soft focus across the image with some of the faster ones having a very shallow depth of field (like ~¼” on my 55mm f1.2) making them very useful in portraiture. When you close the lens down to say f8-f11 they will yield very crisp landscape images.

I'm an analog guy in a digital world.

Thanks for the tip, I don't know much about Canon lenses to be honest but I will have a look.

tommiejeep · Oct 1, 2017

I do not have the APO Lanthar 90 f3.5 but the APO Lanthar 90 f3.5 LMT (L39 with Leica 39 to M ring. Just mounted on the a7rii with Techart Pro. No Vignetting.

-
Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom

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Having lived in Asia,Africa,Caribbean,USA and Europe I have been living in India/UK for the past 18 years. I shoot Nikon but not a big deal(I just happen to like Nikon). Spent time and energy on photography in the late 60's to early 80's. Took up digital about five years ago(Jun 2007). I...

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mattjp1 · Oct 1, 2017

tommiejeep said:
I do not have the APO Lanthar 90 f3.5 but the APO Lanthar 90 f3.5 LMT (L39 with Leica 39 to M ring. Just mounted on the a7rii with Techart Pro. No Vignetting.

-
Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom
http://taja.smugmug.com/
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/165169

Thanks Tommie. I've read several reviews online of people using a7r with Voigtlander 35/1.7 and 21/1.8 and apparently it's all good.

This video kind of freaked me out!

tommiejeep · Oct 1, 2017

Matt, I meant to say I did not have an SL version but missed the EDIT

. My favourite Voigts are the VM 50 1.5 Nocton,(also have the ZM 50 1.5 C Sonnar ) , VM 15 f4.5 III, VM 35 f1.7 Ultron,. I do not use the VM 40 f1.4 Nockton that much. I really liked the 75 f2.5 Color Salpar LTM but preferred my Leica Summarit M 75 f2.5 so sold to a friend. I do use the 90 f3.5 LTM but have so many lenses in the 85-105 range that I use others more.

Sometimes I use the Batis/Loxia kit for travel and other times the smaller VM/ZM kit. The ZM Tessar 85 f4 has become a favourite but 75mm and 85mm are so close that I am more likely to use one of the Nikon 105 f2.5's instead of the 85 or a 90mm

The beauty of adapted lenses

quick snap with APO Lanthar at 90mm f3.5 LTM/Techart Pro close to min. focus distance ooc jpeg

Took some at f11 with same result Re: Vignetting

--
Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom
http://taja.smugmug.com/
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/165169

BBQue · Oct 1, 2017

Just in case you didn't know, the A7rii currently sells for around $2200 (sometimes less) if you are willing to buy grey, i.e. no US warranty, but 30-day no questions asked return period.

Regarding the new Voigtlander 65 macro, check out Jim Kasson's recent review.

BBQue · Oct 1, 2017

Juha Kannisto said:
Have you considered the new E-mount 40/1.2 that is starting to ship from 10/5 or the 65/2 APO-Lanthar? I think these are probably the best match for Sony FF sensors and should work well on A7r too. I have the 65/2 and will also get the 40/1.2 in 4 days.

Not meaning to hijack this thread.... but how do you like the 65/2? It is near the top of my wish list... it would replace my 55/1.8 and Batis 85. Just not sure if I am willing to go all MF with these focal length.

Also would be exciting if you could write some first impressions of the 40/1.2 (in some other thread). MANY THANKS!

To OP: Definitely check out the Contax Zeiss CY lenses. Also some of the SMC (=super multi coated) Takumars are really good and way underrated.

joger · Oct 1, 2017

mattjp1 said:
Hi all,

I am using an EM-10 for a couple of years now and looking for an upgrade.

The resolution of the a7r looks awesome, price is fair compared to the a7rii (out of my reach at the moment), the camera is light too. So all in one it looks appealing to me.

I went to the shop in the week-end and the lenses look quite heavy. Since I like to do landscapes, the camera would be with me on backpack trips etc.. so I'd like to keep it light.

I do not mind manual focus lenses, this would help reduce the weight of the kit too. So I've looked a bit online and apparently, a few people recommend Voigtlander M-mount lenses.

So I am looking to reduce the weight/price of the lenses for this camera body, accepting manual focus lenses but not compromising on image quality.

To be honest I am not so familiar with full frame system, but perhaps someone here could advise if this combo would work well?

In this case I would have a few questions:

What adapter do you recommend?

Any specific M-mount lenses (Voigtlander or other third party manufacturer) is well known for working well with a7r bodies?

Are all Voigtlander lenses manual focus?

Is the image quality much different than when using Sony/Zeiss lenses?

Thanks for any tips/advice you may have.

matt

Hi Matt,

a couple of comments from my side.

1st of all I'd have a 2nd look at the A7RM2 in case it fits your budget - the A7RM2 has much less problems with corner smearing compare to the A7R and it adds image stabilization even for legacy lenses - an advantage especially for backpacking - in most cases I can leave my tripod at home now,

2ndly you can get some Voigtlaender now in native FE mount with electronic coupling and optimized for the sensor stack from Sony. The performance is in some configurations dramatically better. Here's the english link

I own the 15 mm FE mount and it is a fantastic lens - that said my Sony 12-24 G is better and adds zoom capability - it is strange to believe that but currently the Sony 12-24 G is probably the most versatile walk around lens available in the wide angle area - I did recently a 3 ½ weeks Canada tour and some 95 % of my images are with the 12-24 G

It is the bargain of the decade being still reasonable small and since it covers 2-3 focal lengths I really appreciate it saves also weight and space in my hiking bag.

One last remark - the 40 mm f/1.2 is upcoming - I've pre ordered it and I have high opes for this lens - it is also super lightweight and super fast - on the long ned you'll probably find a very narrow selection of lenses - my favorite is the Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4 including the close focus adapter from Voigtlaender - wide open super sharp and small, lightweight and mechanically a joy to use.

My total hiking setup is some 2 kg (= 4 lb) including the 12-24 G, 40 f/1.2 and leica 135 and incl. the A7RM2 and two spare batteries.

I'd always prefer native FE mount with electronic coupling since it gives 5 axis image stabilization and full EXIF data for sorting and finding images in your library.

Most of all the FE dedicated Voigtlaender lenses are optimized for the rather thick sensor cover glass from Sony - old lenses (especially wide angle) suffer from edge smearing and color inconsistencies from center to edge - some more than others.

Hope this helps

a7r + Voigtlander lenses?

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