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Camera settings, asking about

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MisJay

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So I saw this video by Tony on Youtube about how people should stop asking about camera settings and I was like, yes! somebody finally said it!

However, there has been significant backlash at Tony for saying this, and I don't get it.

I think people who ask for camera settings are either delusional that they can take an equally good photo just by copying the camera settings, OR, don't know what the different settings on their camera do and should learn that information in a more productive and systematic way.

Either way, there is no reason to ask for camera settings. Look, I'm not a good photographer by any means and I don't make any money doing it, but I never felt like I had to ask for camera settings because it is flipping obvious and there is no reason to ask.

Look, I'm just pulling some random images from google:

img_67920257.jpg


This one? well looks like long exposure, maybe longer than 1s, probably with ND filter, with ultra wide lens, probably 18mm, ISO at minimum. possibly at hyper focal and very small aperture.

And you know what, if I can go to this exact place at the exact right time, I can immediately take this photo myself. Except finding this place and time is part of the job of a photographer, and an immensely more difficult part. I as an average amateur already nailed the tiny part of figuring out camera settings.

2017_BRZ_photos_ext_02.jpg


Now check this out,, looks like wide angle lens at medium aperture. relatively slow ss, probably 1/10 or lower, minimum ISO obviously. Also obviously the camera was following the car very precisely most likely they just took a bunch of shots and hoped that one of them comes out sharp because holding still against another moving car is quite difficult. Again, if I am immediately transported to the time and place of this shoot and siting on that leading car, I can dial in the correct settings and take this same photo.

Again, it doesn't mean I'm an equally skilled photographer, it only means I know the basics of how to operate my camera. And you should know that too.

So if you ask for camera settings, there are only two possibilities. Either you're not even at my level yet, in that case what are you doing? Maybe you should just learn what each of those settings do directly, asking for camera settings doesn't help. Maybe read a book, or maybe go fiddle around with your camera, try and see what each setting does.

Or, you are delusional and think you can take this same photo with the same camera settings. It doesn't work, I tried and this is what I got:

be79c8f39c4d49178a6c61c36d84cfd0.jpg

See, it didn't work.

Or maybe there is another type of people. People who take photos that aren't very contrasty and just overall seem dull.

You know what I have nothing against you but still, camera settings won't help. There are a number of possible reasons, maybe you don't know how to do post correctly, maybe your lens is not very good quality, maybe you aren't using your lens hood.

But I do know it has nothing to do with the basic lens settings, those do not affect color, contrast, sharpness etc... Well ISO does but it should be obvious that lower ISO=better.
 
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I think that a lot of beginners think the camera settings are arbitrary and can be set at will; then, many beginners are surprised that their images have come out all white or all black, because that they don't know that the exposure settings are relative to the amount of light. Certainly there is some exposure latitude, but not as much as folks perceive.

Also, some things are relative to sensor size, and duplicating f/stops from historical literature can be problematic with modern small sensors.
 
When I cook a new dish I typically follow the recipes to the letter.

The second or third time I just do it because by then I have a good idea on how to .

Possibly ,in the same vein, for many would-be photographers knowing the technical details can give them a good start.
 
FrancoD said:
When I cook a new dish I typically follow the recipes to the letter.

The second or third time I just do it because by then I have a good idea on how to .

Possibly ,in the same vein, for many would-be photographers knowing the technical details can give them a good start.
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Hi, Franco, I agree. If someone asks me about camera settings it is usually a tacit acknowledgement of inexperience and I use it as an opening to talk to them and find out where they are on this particular journey of light gathering (sound like a guru :-)) with the thought in mind of maybe being helpful. This has led to acquaintanceships and even friendships. Often people don't know how to approach a subject they are interested in but have little knowledge of so they ask questions that would not be asked by someone with more experience. You never know where being gracious might lead. It can be very rewarding in it's own right,

--
Pete
 
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Absolutely. People no longer set out to learn photographic technique systematically. When I started (1972/3) unless you learned a decent chunk of the technical theory you found it difficult to take any useable photos at all. Now cameras take care of a lot of that a lot of the time so people don't learn systematically and equally damaging people who do wish to learn don't do it systematically but hit the internet with a single question not a systematic desire for learning. Into this depressing mix you can add in that the qualification to answer questions on the internet is nothing more than a smart phone and the motivation to post original material often income and not based on technical expertise and this means unless you've got a good deal of basic knowledge and insight you risk imbibing rubbish. Obviously one cannot know who "Tony" (606000000 hits on Google) is but in any case this isn't aimed at any specific internet writer but all of them.

To anyone: Buy a book or two or three; read them thoroughly. Look for good tuition. I've just bought my latest book on color (sic) management because I know I need to know more about that and the isolated replies (including by the author of said book!) one gets on here don't move systematically through theory to practice.
 
MisJay said:
However, there has been significant backlash at Tony for saying this, and I don't get it.
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I'm curious, where did you see the backlash?
 
FrancoD said:
When I cook a new dish I typically follow the recipes to the letter.

The second or third time I just do it because by then I have a good idea on how to .

Possibly ,in the same vein, for many would-be photographers knowing the technical details can give them a good start.
Click to expand...
You know what I totally agree, but the photographic eauivalent of following a receipt isn’t dialing the same settings. It’s going to the same spot with the same lighting and everything.

dialing in the same numbers is like buying the same stove, pan and same brand of salt. These things don’t matter as long as you get it to work.
 
a_c_skinner said:
Absolutely. People no longer set out to learn photographic technique systematically. When I started (1972/3) unless you learned a decent chunk of the technical theory you found it difficult to take any useable photos at all. Now cameras take care of a lot of that a lot of the time so people don't learn systematically and equally damaging people who do wish to learn don't do it systematically but hit the internet with a single question not a systematic desire for learning. Into this depressing mix you can add in that the qualification to answer questions on the internet is nothing more than a smart phone and the motivation to post original material often income and not based on technical expertise and this means unless you've got a good deal of basic knowledge and insight you risk imbibing rubbish. Obviously one cannot know who "Tony" (606000000 hits on Google) is but in any case this isn't aimed at any specific internet writer but all of them.

To anyone: Buy a book or two or three; read them thoroughly. Look for good tuition. I've just bought my latest book on color (sic) management because I know I need to know more about that and the isolated replies (including by the author of said book!) one gets on here don't move systematically through theory to practice.
Click to expand...
 
I still consider myself a beginner in a lot of ways despite having in my possession at least one digital camera for the past 10 years. This is pretty much due to the fact that I have never had any formal training. All I have done is read a couple of books and spent some time with free online tutorials.

With all that being said, when I ask or am looking for specific settings these days it is to achieve a certain film look in camera or in software. Examples would be Provia, Astia, Velvia, or my favorite B&W T-Max 400.

Anything more technically specific I can find in an article or free tutorial.
 
Kung Fu said:
Link? Who is “Tony”? Northrup?
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He has one of the best intros to my K1 out there. I have watched it several times.

 
You are right, I don't know if people want to learn photography properly. I do know from the questions on here that a lot would not be asked if people had managed to. It truly was not meant to disparage, it was meant to encourage. I've seen much more caustic opinions on here.
 
ormdig said:
FrancoD said:
When I cook a new dish I typically follow the recipes to the letter.

The second or third time I just do it because by then I have a good idea on how to .

Possibly ,in the same vein, for many would-be photographers knowing the technical details can give them a good start.
Click to expand...
Hi, Franco, I agree. If someone asks me about camera settings it is usually a tacit acknowledgement of inexperience and I use it as an opening to talk to them and find out where they are on this particular journey of light gathering (sound like a guru :-)) with the thought in mind of maybe being helpful. This has led to acquaintanceships and even friendships. Often people don't know how to approach a subject they are interested in but have little knowledge of so they ask questions that would not be asked by someone with more experience. You never know where being gracious might lead. It can be very rewarding in it's own right,
Click to expand...
 
FrancoD said:
When I cook a new dish I typically follow the recipes to the letter.

The second or third time I just do it because by then I have a good idea on how to .

Possibly ,in the same vein, for many would-be photographers knowing the technical details can give them a good start.
Click to expand...
This is a good analogy. Tony's thought process is that each camera/lens combination has its own settings that work best, so asking what shooter X with a Nikon D810 and a 14-24 lens setting are for a specific shot when shooter Y is using a Canon 5DIII with a 16-35 isn't going to produce the same result. However.....

Knowing the settings, even though the combination is different, will get a fairly new to photography shooter in the ballpark. Reduce the learning curve, as it were.

Sweating the details generally produces better results and that's for just about anything we do. I can just about guarantee that when Tony and Chelsea spend a small fortune to shoot in an exotic location, they carefully consider what they're doing when shooting. But they've been doing it for a long time and pretty much know exactly what works.

We learn by doing, but we also learn by asking questions. I haven't been doing this nearly as long as many here, so I'm still trying new stuff and I still ask questions. I understand Tony's point that we shouldn't obsess over tiny details, but paying at least some attention to detail will pay off.

David
 
a_c_skinner said:
You are right, I don't know if people want to learn photography properly.
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What does that mean? Can you share an example (even if hypothetical) of "to learn photography improperly"?

Wouldn't "improper" be more fun, and have a better chance of standing out among a sea of "proper"?
 
FrancoD said:
When I cook a new dish I typically follow the recipes to the letter.

The second or third time I just do it because by then I have a good idea on how to .

Possibly ,in the same vein, for many would-be photographers knowing the technical details can give them a good start.
Click to expand...
This is exactly how I am also. I use to cook for a living but that does not make me a chef. I am just a good cook who varies the recipe to my taste.

I apply this to cameras as well. I have been told I like my pictures on the darker side and most of my friends I have shown them to want to brighten them up. But darker with high contrast, almost edgy, is to my taste.

I am sure a lot of that has to do with being color blind. Subtle differences I just do not see as well as those who can see colors normally.

Give me a recipe whether it be with food or in a camera; and I will add my own little twist to it.
 
Two nations separated by a common language as I think one well known American observed. Doing something properly in UK English means thoroughly, systematically, carefully. Which is what I commend. Transactions on here seem to me to suggest some people see this as superfluous.
 
a_c_skinner said:
Two nations separated by a common language as I think one well known American observed. Doing something properly in UK English means thoroughly, systematically, carefully. Which is what I commend. Transactions on here seem to me to suggest some people see this as superfluous.
Click to expand...
 
That would be an opinion, not knowledge!
 
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