Reading mode: Light Dark

Is this forum becoming a photo 101 class?

Go to last post
As a long time amature shutterbug I recently made the long awaited jump to a DSLR ( D100 ). I happened by chance to find this great place where I found incredible photo's and friendly people with advice and information, I thought to myself what a great forum even just to read and learn. I thought it was a community and wanted to be a part of it. I only hope that I can give back something because I feel that I get so much here. I also feel that everyone is a example good or bad that's how you learn. I never once got the feeling that it was a " Pro's only " forum and not a " click" (forgive the pun) and was happy to find people who wanted to help. I am constantly awed by the great shots that people post and want so badly to learn to use my equipment to get similar results. I have many great shots taken over the years with my 35mm SLR's but want to learn how to get great results with my D100. I want to post more frequently than I do but I only reply when I really feel the need to do so. I just wanted people to know how someone new to this forum feels.

Thanks to all how have helped me without their even knowing they did by helping others.

Frank R.
greg n said:
Ron Frank said:
I've seen some stunning work on this forum. Mostly nature and
landscape.

But the level of portrait photography here is shocking!

People posting portriats that have so many problems, it's obvious
that there is NO understanding of photography basics..period!

And in both cases I've commented on in the past 12 hours each
photographer has spent 5K+ on equipment!

Where is the learning and education? Have we become so technology
based that there is NO thought to actually learning the art of
photography? Do these photographers even realize that there IS a
LOT to being a photographer other than owning equipment?

And these people expect to fix this lack of education by posting
images, and asking for help here? One poster just blamed her
equipment.....

It blows me away...
Ron
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
DJC said:
Rich Gibson said:
The interesting mix is the reason I left Steve's Digicams a few
years ago (of course his inefficient and time consuming forum
software helped!). Furthermore, the Nikonians D1 and D100 site
have the same rumors as here. The use of moderators in Nikonians
does weed out people like the two I mentioned above, but there
aren't enough posts to keep me coming back more than once a week..

I enjoy Ron Reznik's and Yves' images as well as some of the newbee
stuff. I like to compare my work to theirs...some times it's
better, more often not as good. I can usually tell by the title of
the OP if someone is asking a useful question or trying to genrate
controversy. Like this thread for example.

My problem is resisting the urge to respond. Sadly, often I
can't..like this thread for example.

I see you frequent the Digital Pro Forum; fair enough. Sounds like
that's the place which will best suit your needs. For me, the
Nikon forums are about as good as it gets.

Rich
Ron Frank said:
I've seen some stunning work on this forum. Mostly nature and
landscape.

But .....

It blows me away...
Ron
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Perhaps it is Photography 101 for me. Until November of 2002, the only photos I had ever taken in my life were with a Kodak Brownie, a point and shoot camera and a polaroid. I then purchased a CP5000. I intentionally bought that camera because many reviews commented it wasn't a point and shoot camera and I would have to learn some things to make the most of it.

While it's a very nice camera in it's own class, I felt like I was restricted because of many factors (zoom, speed, inter-changeble lenses, depth of field control to name a few). I researched and asked questions. I purchased my D100 mainly because of reading these forums.

The D100 is the first SLR camera of ANY kind I've ever owned and I've been at it for 2 months solid. I've taken 2700+ pictures in 2 months (many of them of the same fruit bowl on my dining room table) to try and gain some knowledge of exposure. I've read some books, studied others work but the most valuable tool I have had has been specifically this forum.

If you go and look at my history and postings, I try to always be respectful, humble and I'm willing to post photos not for self praise (although encouragement is always appreciated), but so that myself and others might learn from it. Just the other day I posted some photos of my daughter (who is white) and her 2 best friends (both whom are very dark skinned black girls) in order to learn how to properly expose the scene. It seems that I wasn't the only one that benefitted from the posting as it invoked good discussion.

I've e-mailed Ron Reznick in some dialogue and sent him a link to some photos I thought were pretty good. The reply? They basically sucked. Please understand, those were not his words used and he was respectful but very frank. The composition was bad (I centered the head in every one), the exposure was not what it should be and they were something about an average point and shooter could do. Did this bother me? Yes, for about 30 seconds and then I thought of the purpose of asking in the first place. I very much respect Ron Reznick and appreciate the "kick in the butt" he gave me. I can't wait to schedule some time with him. Speaking of Ron R, I don't see him posting things like this on here and in fact when I e-mailed him and felt like I was too "green" to even step foot on the same ground as him, he encouraged me and told me he'd bring me along as fast or slow as I could handle and he's taught newbies and pros alike.

I don't ask for comments unless I'm willing to take the heat. It is always my hope for the approval and encouragement of others however I also like receiving criticism because I choose to accept it positively and learn from it and it will help me to become a better photographer.

I try to help those who are newer then me (which are not too many) and encourage them.

Since you've never taken the time to comment on my images, I would appreciate some feedback on this attempt at a portrait.



Thanks for taking the time to read.

Regards,

David Anderson
Ron Frank said:
I've seen some stunning work on this forum. Mostly nature and
landscape.

But the level of portrait photography here is shocking!

People posting portriats that have so many problems, it's obvious
that there is NO understanding of photography basics..period!

And in both cases I've commented on in the past 12 hours each
photographer has spent 5K+ on equipment!

Where is the learning and education? Have we become so technology
based that there is NO thought to actually learning the art of
photography? Do these photographers even realize that there IS a
LOT to being a photographer other than owning equipment?

And these people expect to fix this lack of education by posting
images, and asking for help here? One poster just blamed her
equipment.....

It blows me away...
Ron
Click to expand...
 
Ron Frank said:
I've seen some stunning work on this forum. Mostly nature and
landscape.

But the level of portrait photography here is shocking!
Click to expand...
snippage
Ron Frank said:
It blows me away...
Ron
Click to expand...
Hmmm.

I've read this now 3 times along with all the replies.

I can definately understand Ron's point of view.

I have similar feelings about another forum where I have participated for years, and area where I have 20 years of experience. It does get depressing to see the same basic things getting rehashed time and time again. Equipment being blamed when the real problem is the lack of user familiarity, knowledge, and experience.

On the other hand I came into this forum with the typical newb's enthusiasm, along with some frustration. I have poured over ton's of posts, searched and searched the forums, and gleaned a lot of imformation.

I have also posted some reallly poor pics and gotten what I deserved, and needed for feedback. It isn't always enjoyable to get the real lowdown on your "work". I think I have improved a bunch and now, I think about what I'm doing a lot more and go out with an action plan to see if I can improve in certain areas. The change in the way I shoot and what I shoot is the outcome of participating here along with reading some books that were pointed out to me early in my participation here.

As far as Ron's comments.

He is one of the posters whose comments I make it a point to read. I see no reason to stop now.

There are others whose experience and exeprtise come out now and then and I am happy this forum exists as a place to gather them together. Warts and all.

--
Shad
-----------------------------------------------------

What piano should I buy if I want to play like Mozart?

...Kit in profile...
...pbase supporter...
...Nikonians supporter...
 
no, dpreview isn't a photo 101 class. Most people aren't concerned with improving their images, just their gear. Most images posted here are cr*p, mainly because most people posting to dpreview have no background in art (formal training or otherwise)

you don't need $5k in gear to take pictures of your kid and dog. Lots of $$ won't improve your images, go take a basic art class for heavens sake

photosig and photo.net are much better places for discussing photography as an art form (as are dead tree publications like lenswork and b&w).
 
Let's face it, a huge percentage of the people here have no photographic instincts: they've never tried to cultivate any either. Composition, emotional impact, lighting all appear to be arcane concepts--irritants if you like--that get in the way of the real issues like "how many individual hairs can you see on this squirrel's back (the 422nd squirrel I've posted this month, by the way)? Basking in the reflected glory of the lens manufacturers is a much easier way of garnering heaps of fulsome praise than going out and learning the craft.
daishi said:
no, dpreview isn't a photo 101 class. Most people aren't concerned
with improving their images, just their gear. Most images posted
here are cr*p, mainly because most people posting to dpreview have
no background in art (formal training or otherwise)

you don't need $5k in gear to take pictures of your kid and dog.
Lots of $$ won't improve your images, go take a basic art class for
heavens sake

photosig and photo.net are much better places for discussing
photography as an art form (as are dead tree publications like
lenswork and b&w).
Click to expand...
 
I have given and received help ...

I have learned from more competent photographers than myself here as well as I have given so help/education to others. It is a circle, a very diversified circle.

10 years ago, Internet was just being pushed out to the population and many people with no skills were able to use PC's, something they would have probably never done if it wans't for the Internet.

About 6 years ago, a big boom in digital photography brought a bunch of people into it. People who were used to use PaS type camera. They are using their D-100 as if it was a PaS in some cases because the camera offers that possibility but it doesn't mean they don't want to leanr photography.

It is great because I am just about to join a Photostore as a photography teacher in a few weeks. I am building the training document as we speak. I can't wait to start giving training and courses to those newbies, people that will really want to learn what is photography and what they can achieve with their piece of equipment. Some will have coolpix type, others DLRS others film camera ... The point I am making is: " They will want to learn "
Ron Frank said:
I've seen some stunning work on this forum. Mostly nature and
landscape.

But the level of portrait photography here is shocking!

People posting portriats that have so many problems, it's obvious
that there is NO understanding of photography basics..period!

And in both cases I've commented on in the past 12 hours each
photographer has spent 5K+ on equipment!

Where is the learning and education? Have we become so technology
based that there is NO thought to actually learning the art of
photography? Do these photographers even realize that there IS a
LOT to being a photographer other than owning equipment?

And these people expect to fix this lack of education by posting
images, and asking for help here? One poster just blamed her
equipment.....

It blows me away...
Ron
Click to expand...
--
Yves P.

http://www.pbase.com/yp1/images01
http://www.pbase.com/yves_pinsono23
 
I highly doubt that most people on this forum are happy to stay in the "point and shoot" snapshot category and that's exactly why they are here. Yes there is some awfull stuff posted from time to time with respect to lighting composition etc, however those individuals have been brave (in my opinion) and posted it anyway in the hopes that more experienced people will help them. That doesn't take into account the countless numbers that are helped indirectly by reading the posts and following the advice given.

I am mostly a sports shooter and don't have that much interest in squirrels or portraits etc but I have still learned valuable bits of info from following those posts. I am thankfull that there are still "pro's" here that enjoy sharing thier wisdom with the less talented and I think most of us are better for it. I hope people will continue to post photos of any kind as I really enjoy reading the responses they generate and as for those few that have run out of patience with learners I suggest you take your elitist attitude and go and enjoy some pro forum where god forbid you would never have to assault your eyes with less than perfect images.
As for everyone else just keep shooting and strive to improve.
 
Being an educator for the past nine years I know there is no such thing as a bad question. There is no feeling as gratifying then that of helping someone to learn.
Ron Frank said:
And these people expect to fix this lack of education by posting
images, and asking for help here? One poster just blamed her
equipment.....

It blows me away...
Ron
Click to expand...
-
 
Ron Frank said:
I've seen some stunning work on this forum. Mostly nature and
landscape.

But the level of portrait photography here is shocking!
Click to expand...
Maybe we need another forum called "Digital Photography". This should be non-denominational devoted to the presentation and critique of digital images (either from a digital camera or from scanned and manipulated film images).

The images in the Nikon forum tend to be dominated by a group of excellent photographers who have "one particular view" of the nature of good photography - in the same way that the lighting forum tends to be glamour based. A general photography forum will address a broader range of photographic interest. It may provide a reasonable "photography 201" course so that the purchasers of the equipment will have a better perception of how the hardware can be used.

In addition, it would remove the "photography" from the hardware forums letting the folks interested in the hardware have a bit less forum noise to navigate.

tony
 
I like problem solving. I prefer to explore possible solutions rather than complain and not constructively contribute to problem resolution. I also can take criticism and enjoy having a laugh now and then. With that out of the way, I have an idea…:-)

Let’s petition Phil to establish a new forum for those of you intolerant of those of us that don’t exclusively use the right-side of our brain. You know, those of you that are so annoyed by the photos of kids and squirrels that you have to vent, and those of you that create and understand the art in photos of innate objects from angles not normally viewed by the human eye, often with the color removed. This new forum might also be a comfortable place for those of you that have a hard time dealing with the “hobbyists” amongst us who have apparently violated what you thought was some sort of exclusive photography club here on this web site by spending 5K or more on gear, and can’t pass the good bokeh/bad bokeh test.

The part of this proposal that troubles me most is, even if such a forum were established, I’m not sure we could ever convince the people unhappy with the existing forums to stay out of harms way in the forums that make them so unhappy. Let's brainstorm...

DJC
 
A Nikon Photography Forum

This is a great idea ...
tony field said:
Ron Frank said:
I've seen some stunning work on this forum. Mostly nature and
landscape.

But the level of portrait photography here is shocking!
Click to expand...
Maybe we need another forum called "Digital Photography". This
should be non-denominational devoted to the presentation and
critique of digital images (either from a digital camera or from
scanned and manipulated film images).

The images in the Nikon forum tend to be dominated by a group of
excellent photographers who have "one particular view" of the
nature of good photography - in the same way that the lighting
forum tends to be glamour based. A general photography forum will
address a broader range of photographic interest. It may provide a
reasonable "photography 201" course so that the purchasers of the
equipment will have a better perception of how the hardware can be
used.

In addition, it would remove the "photography" from the hardware
forums letting the folks interested in the hardware have a bit less
forum noise to navigate.

tony
Click to expand...
--
Yves P.

http://www.pbase.com/yp1/images01
http://www.pbase.com/yves_pinsono23
 
Yves P. said:
A Nikon Photography Forum

This is a great idea ...
Click to expand...
My personal preference would be for a general forum, not Nikon specific. Unfortunately that would encourage the typical Canonite troll to tell everyone how fabulous their cameras were by illustrating their pride with images :-) Peter Phan might even becom a major "contributor".

If it were a Nikon specific photo forum, that would be fine as well. Certainly would be better than having multiple hardware oriented forums as Phil has set up in the Canonical church.

tony
 
The forum should be just "showcase" (where you can show your images to become famous...) and "criticism please" (where you´ll get a real help...).

Anyway, the forum(s) should definitely not be corporate dependent (like nikon/canon etc).
 
Ken Mai wrote:
[snip]
Ken Mai said:
  • Is a $100 Quantaray lens a good lens to compliment my $2k DSLR body?
Click to expand...
[snip]

That, of course, is silly. But I'd like to know if a $109 Phoenix lens is a good choice.

Now, before reacting, let me explain. I saw the article in one of the photo mags about low-buck mirror lenses, so I just ordered the 500 mm Phoenix mirror lens. It comes tomorrow.

I've run into situations where my 70-300 mm was not quite long enough. I was lusting for a 50-500 Sigma, but the money for that is out of the question. (I still don't know how I got my wife to let me spend the $2K for the D100.) The Phoenix will give me the length. It will be used in daylight. It's f/8, and I usually keep my 70-300 at f/8.

Has anybody here played with the cheap mirror teles? Any suggestions? Fun things to try? Things that will make me regret getting one? Tips on pronouncing (or spelling) catadioptric?

Hopefully this is at least a Photo 102 question. :-)

Ken Plotkin
 
Ron Frank said:
I've seen some stunning work on this forum. Mostly nature and
landscape.

But the level of portrait photography here is shocking!

People posting portriats that have so many problems, it's obvious
that there is NO understanding of photography basics..period!

And in both cases I've commented on in the past 12 hours each
photographer has spent 5K+ on equipment!

Where is the learning and education? Have we become so technology
based that there is NO thought to actually learning the art of
photography? Do these photographers even realize that there IS a
LOT to being a photographer other than owning equipment?

And these people expect to fix this lack of education by posting
images, and asking for help here? One poster just blamed her
equipment.....

It blows me away...
Ron
Click to expand...
It has always been about equipment (tools)! And this is not the Pro forum. It says Nikon DSLR forum and that covers anything anyone wants to post about the various Nikon DSLR. Whether you are a pro or a rank beginner! I don't read all the postings....depending on my mood. And as far as the pictures that are posted here... if the picture is sharp and well exposed I consider it a success... after all Weston, Steichen or Brassai don't post here, even though I do see some realy finely crafted photos here from time to time.

Boris
http://public.fotki.com/borysd/
 
Thanks for the nice comments. I think that's part of the point of my post. Yes I spent lots of $$$$ to buy good equipment but until I can consistently take photos like Yves, Ron R, you and many others on this forum I will keep posting, keep asking questions and keep working at it.

Your input has always been very much appreciated and respected.

Kind Regards,

David Anderson

PS. I have a question I'd lilke to ask you offline if you don't mind. Can you E-mail me at [email protected]

Thanks
Dennis D said:
Dennis D said:
shudderbug2 wrote:
I would appreciate some feedback on this attempt at a portrait.

Click to expand...
I like this shot, the OOF background, the exposure, the head tilt,
closeup, the fill flash is not over powering, all makes for a very
nice portrait.
--

Click to expand...
 
Ron, you posed the question if "these people" are even interested in learning the fundamentals. Yes. And we use this forum as one of the resources to learn. As far as I can tell the only qualification for membership in this particular forum would be a Nikon DSLR. A degree from art school was not mentioned when I signed up. It has been suggested that picture posting be done in a separate forum. That's fine, divide us up into as many groups as needed. But to suggest that some level of expertise is required prior to posting seems to me to go against the very purpose of these forums. I think I learn as much from the poor photos posted as from the great ones, and I admire everyone who has the courage to ask for criticism.

I have said it before, and I continue to say and believe it; this forum is a Godsend. I will continue to tolerate silly posts and cranky posts and bashing posts, because that is a price I willingly pay to get the good stuff I find here.

-Mark
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top