FZ1000 for video of presentations?

Jacques Cornell · Sep 2, 2017

I'm a professional corporate event photographer interested in dipping my toe into video for clients who want video recordings of panel discussions and presenters at lecterns. Any thoughts about Panasonic's FZ1000 for this purpose? I could get one for the cost of a long f5.6 telezoom for my MFT cameras. Next step up for me would probably be a G85 or GH4 with the forthcoming PanLeica 50-200mm f2.8-4.0, which would probably cost about $2K. I'm aware I'd need a separate audio recorder patched into the venue's microphone system.

My intention is simply to set it up on a tripod, set focus manually, and leave it running while I do stills with my Panasonic MFT cameras. I realize I'd be pushing the envelope a bit with ISO 1600 at f4.0. I like the idea of also being able to extract 8MP stills from the 4K footage.

Would love to hear from anyone who's used an FZ1000 in a similar way.

KrisAK · Sep 2, 2017

B&H shows the camera as having a 29 minute clip limit. I think there's a hack-like workaround for that, but I'm wondering if it's reliable enough for paid work.

(That limit is the only reason I didn't try this camera, so I am curious about the hack.)

uncle dunc · Sep 2, 2017

If there's no way to overcome the 29 minute limit, the newer FZ2500 has no time limit. If you run a GX85 on AC power, using a DC coupler (fake battery) and AC adapter, there is no time limit in 4k.

Corkcampbell · Sep 2, 2017

[No message]

EduPortas · Sep 2, 2017

Have you considered Panny's own 4K pro video cams?

Loading…

www.bhphotovideo.com

For long lectures, I prefer the flexibility of a dedicated video camera.

uncle dunc · Sep 2, 2017

EduPortas said:
Have you considered Panny's own 4K pro video cams?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1250997-REG/panasonic_ag_ux90_4k_professional_camcorder.html

For long lectures, I prefer the flexibility of a dedicated video camera.

The UX90 uses the sensor and lens from the FZ2500 (including the crop in 4k). In other words, you're paying an extra $1000 for the camcorder form factor, unlimited recording, XLR inputs, 2 card slots and larger batteries. At least the UX180 and HC-X1 have a new sensor optimized for video (with no 4k crop), but now you're paying an extra $2,000 compared to a FZ2500.

If it was my money, I'd go for the GX85, assuming a 64mm (35mm equivalent) max zoom of the kit lens would handle the shoot. If not, the kit lens of the G85 zooms longer, and I'm pretty sure it records 4k with no time limit, other than the size of the card.

If it was corporate money, I'd get the HC-X1 camcorder. With 2 card slots and the AC power option, you could set it and forget it for at least 3 or 4 hours.

Jacques Cornell · Sep 2, 2017

Jacques Cornell said:
I'm a professional corporate event photographer interested in dipping my toe into video for clients who want video recordings of panel discussions and presenters at lecterns. Any thoughts about Panasonic's FZ1000 for this purpose? I could get one for the cost of a long f5.6 telezoom for my MFT cameras. Next step up for me would probably be a G85 or GH4 with the forthcoming PanLeica 50-200mm f2.8-4.0, which would probably cost about $2K. I'm aware I'd need a separate audio recorder patched into the venue's microphone system.

My intention is simply to set it up on a tripod, set focus manually, and leave it running while I do stills with my Panasonic MFT cameras. I realize I'd be pushing the envelope a bit with ISO 1600 at f4.0. I like the idea of also being able to extract 8MP stills from the 4K footage.

Would love to hear from anyone who's used an FZ1000 in a similar way.

EduPortas · Sep 2, 2017

Thanks, I didn't know they used the same sensor.

For me, those extra $1,000 are well worth it, though. It's fully functional camcorder that could make things a lot easier for the OP. Nice XLRs, ND filters, two card slots, unlimited recording time and a generous zoom.

With lectures that requiere a good amount of zooming even the slightest camera movement will result in jarring camera shake when shooting with a small MILC or DSLR.

For all-around stability, you can't beat a good video cam mounted on a fluid head, specially if you're using a LANC (or other protocol) remote to zoom in and out really slowly attached on one of the tripod's arms.

Enjoy your shopping.

Jacques Cornell · Sep 2, 2017

EduPortas said:
Thanks, I didn't know they used the same sensor.

For me, those extra $1,000 are well worth it, though. It's fully functional camcorder that could make things a lot easier for the OP. Nice XLRs

Don't think I need these if I patch an audio recorder into the room's PA system. Yes?

EduPortas said:
ND filters

Won't need ND shooting indoors in relatively dim light.

EduPortas said:
, two card slots, unlimited recording time and a generous zoom.

Ah, but how bright is that zoom? I figure f4.0 is the absolute minimum for my typical lighting conditions with this sensor at ISO 1600.

EduPortas said:
With lectures that requiere a good amount of zooming even the slightest camera movement will result in jarring camera shake when shooting with a small MILC or DSLR.

For all-around stability, you can't beat a good video cam mounted on a fluid head,

Or perhaps a small MILC on a hefty tripod with sandbags? I really don't want a 50lb. camera.

EduPortas said:
specially if you're using a LANC (or other protocol) remote to zoom in and out really slowly attached on one of the tripod's arms.

The remote zoom is not relevant for me, as I will be shooting stills at the same time. I mentioned this in my OP.

EduPortas said:
Enjoy your shopping.

Thanks for the input.

uncle dunc · Sep 3, 2017

Jacques Cornell said:
Don't think I need these if I patch an audio recorder into the room's PA system. Yes?

Correct. External audio recorders capture at 24 bit. Cameras capture at 16 bit. 24bit has 100 times the resolution of 16 bit, which means you can capture audio with a conservative recording level to avoid clipping, and still get higher resolution audio than if you were recording to 16 bit with a limiter engaged.

Jacques Cornell said:
Ah, but how bright is that zoom? I figure f4.0 is the absolute minimum for my typical lighting conditions with this sensor at ISO 1600.

I got the impression the HC-X1 (and UX-180) sensor is an F-stop faster than M4/3. It's a smaller sensor, but it has larger pixels, which = better low light. In the next few days, I'll be doing a "wide open" comparison between the HC-X1, FZ2500, GX85 and G7. I'll return here with the results.

Jacques Cornell · Sep 3, 2017

uncle dunc said:
uncle dunc said:

Don't think I need these if I patch an audio recorder into the room's PA system. Yes?

Click to expand...

Correct. External audio recorders capture at 24 bit. Cameras capture at 16 bit. 24bit has 100 times the resolution of 16 bit, which means you can capture audio with a conservative recording level to avoid clipping, and still get higher resolution audio than if you were recording to 16 bit with a limiter engaged.

uncle dunc said:

Ah, but how bright is that zoom? I figure f4.0 is the absolute minimum for my typical lighting conditions with this sensor at ISO 1600.

Click to expand...

I got the impression the HC-X1 (and UX-180) sensor is an F-stop faster than M4/3. It's a smaller sensor, but it has larger pixels, which = better low light.

This has been largely debunked. Downsample an a7RII image to 12MP and you have noise that pretty much matches the a7SII.

Also, I would be extremely surprised if any 1" sensor had a 1-stop noise advantage over MFT, likewise MFT over APS, APS over 35mm, etc., etc. With current tech, noise is pretty much a function of total light gathered, not pixel size. Where pixel size does make a difference is in DR, as the larger well can collect more photons without oversaturating (clipping). At least that's what's indicated by my reading on the subject.

uncle dunc said:
In the next few days, I'll be doing a "wide open" comparison between the HC-X1, FZ2500, GX85 and G7. I'll return here with the results.

uncle dunc · Sep 6, 2017

Jacques Cornell said:
... I would be extremely surprised if any 1" sensor had a 1-stop noise advantage over MFT, likewise MFT over APS, APS over 35mm, etc., etc. With current tech, noise is pretty much a function of total light gathered, not pixel size. Where pixel size does make a difference is in DR, as the larger well can collect more photons without oversaturating (clipping). At least that's what's indicated by my reading on the subject.

Well... this is a little disconcerting. I set up 3 cameras, a G7, FZ2500 and HC-X1 camcorder, all in 4K. Cameras were at base ISO of 200, HC-X1 was at zero gain. All three were at F5 for a low light situation. The scene had zebras on the highlights and deep shadows. I put all three clips in Premiere. In order to match the exposure, I had to go +1.0 on the FZ2500 and +2.0 on the G7. You'd think the G7, with the bigger sensor, would have won, I'm going to try this again tomorrow. I must be missing something. I did notice more dynamic range in the HC-X1, but it was cold compared to the golden-tinged "Lumix look" - which I really like.

Jacques Cornell · Sep 6, 2017

uncle dunc said:
uncle dunc said:

... I would be extremely surprised if any 1" sensor had a 1-stop noise advantage over MFT, likewise MFT over APS, APS over 35mm, etc., etc. With current tech, noise is pretty much a function of total light gathered, not pixel size. Where pixel size does make a difference is in DR, as the larger well can collect more photons without oversaturating (clipping). At least that's what's indicated by my reading on the subject.

Click to expand...

Well... this is a little disconcerting. I set up 3 cameras, a G7, FZ2500 and HC-X1 camcorder, all in 4K. Cameras were at base ISO of 200, HC-X1 was at zero gain. All three were at F5 for a low light situation. The scene had zebras on the highlights and deep shadows. I put all three clips in Premiere. In order to match the exposure, I had to go +1.0 on the FZ2500 and +2.0 on the G7. You'd think the G7, with the bigger sensor, would have won, I'm going to try this again tomorrow. I must be missing something. I did notice more dynamic range in the HC-X1, but it was cold compared to the golden-tinged "Lumix look" - which I really like.

What is the sensor size of the HC-X1? Are you sure you were using same shutter speeds? It is, indeed, very strange that the G7 had one stop less exposure than the FZ2500 if the settings were the same. Something seems off.

Ken______ · Sep 6, 2017

According to this review,

http://nofilmschool.com/2017/03/panasonic-ux180-review,

zero gain on the ux180 roughly corresponds to 640-800 ISO. These reviewers

http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/12/...ters-20x-zoom-and-1-inch-sensor-just-3199-us/

https://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2016/09/09/compare-the-new-4k-camcorders-from-panasonic/

believe that the ux180 and hc-x1 are basically the same camera except for the SDI port and timecode input on the ux180, so I would expect that zero gain on the hc-x1 also corresponds to ISO 640-800.

Comparing the top half of this clip (HC-X1 at gain = 0db)

to the bottom half of this clip (G4 at ISO = 800)

also suggests that zero gain on the hc-x1 is roughly ISO 800.

So, if we assume that zero gain on the hc-x1 is ISO 800, then that is consistent with the +2 exposure boost that you had to apply to the g7 at ISO 200.

That would indicate that the fz2500/fz2000 is the outlier here. If we look at dxomark’s ISO sensitivity testing of the fz1000 and fz2000

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...-versus-Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-FZ1000___1116_958 (go to ISO sensitivity graph on measurements tab),

it suggests that ISO 200 on the fz2500/fz2000 could actually be more like ISO 150. This might partially explain why you had to boost the exposure of the fz2500 by +1.0 stops. I suppose the difference that dxomark found might also be due to sample variation.

John Koch · Sep 6, 2017

A GH4 or G80/85 with a 14-140mm lens might be an alternative. But, regarding the FZ1000, consider:

Low price
Ample zoom range.
No need to invest in other lenses.
Has plug for external shotgun mics, of which there are decent options which cost under $60.
Cheap AC adapters / wired (fake) batteries.
Adequate in any decent light.

Concerning the "30-minute limit," don't the N. American models simply start a new file after each 4GB clip is completed? Does the camera ever actually stop at 30 minutes? In any case, it appears the FZ2500 is not limited to 30 minutes.

There are also HD and UHD camcorders that cost under $1,100, have mic and headphone jacks, support extended batteries or A/C adapters, offer a generous zoom range, never over-heat, and work well at light levels found at most corporate events. Presumably the long takes of video would be of speakers at well-illuminated podiums.

Corkcampbell · Sep 6, 2017

Yes, a couple of my Sonys just restart recording after 30 minutes; I haven't noticed any heating problem and haven't been arrested by EU police. I just bought a new Yi (to replace a GoPro 3+ and I'll have to check out whether it has a recording limit - it's still in the box). I hate the recording limits and have used GH2/3/4 cameras to avoid them because I often put them on tripods for unattended recording. The GH series also uses huge batteries which help. I also like the weather-protection; I have WP lenses for them as well. For video, I consider them the best. I can't afford a GH5 or I'd have one now; unfortunately, I enjoy living indoors which takes money.

--
"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber

Jacques Cornell · Sep 6, 2017

John Koch said:
A GH4 or G80/85 with a 14-140mm lens might be an alternative. But, regarding the FZ1000, consider:

Low price

Ample zoom range.

No need to invest in other lenses.

Has plug for external shotgun mics, of which there are decent options which cost under $60.

Cheap AC adapters / wired (fake) batteries.

Adequate in any decent light.

Concerning the "30-minute limit," don't the N. American models simply start a new file after each 4GB clip is completed? Does the camera ever actually stop at 30 minutes? In any case, it appears the FZ2500 is not limited to 30 minutes.

There are also HD and UHD camcorders that cost under $1,100, have mic and headphone jacks, support extended batteries or A/C adapters, offer a generous zoom range, never over-heat, and work well at light levels found at most corporate events. Presumably the long takes of video would be of speakers at well-illuminated podiums.

Thanks. Those podiums aren't always well-lit. I'm often at f2.8, 1/60, ISO 1600. I know zilch about camcorders. Can you tell me how they'd do in this light, and can you recommend models?

evetsf · Sep 6, 2017

John Koch said:
...Concerning the "30-minute limit," don't the N. American models simply start a new file after each 4GB clip is completed? Does the camera ever actually stop at 30 minutes? In any case, it appears the FZ2500 is not limited to 30 minutes...

Here's the deal with file sizes and time limits -

First, the FZ1000 does have a 30-minute limit; at least that's what the manuals and specifications say. If you hit that limit and still have enough room on your SD card, you just start recording again to build a new file. Obviously, there will be a bit of a time gap between files.

However, the FZ1000 is also limited to using FAT32-formatted cards. The maximum FAT32 file size is 4GB, so if one is shooting 4K video that means that a long video is broken up into about 5 1/2-minute clips until the 30-minute limit is reached. There's a noticeable "blip" between clips if you splice the files together.

The FZ2500 is different in both areas: first, it's not limited to 30 minutes, but it can also recognize and use exFAT-formatted SD cards, and will automagically format large-size cards as exFAT. The maximum exFAT file size is greater than the largest card the FZ2500 will handle, so a 4K video will get recorded in one continuous file until there's no more room left on the card.

Plug an exFAT-formatted card into an FZ1000 and it will complain that it can't use the card. You'd need to re-format it in the camera, at which point it will get changed to FAT32.

Steve

Jacques Cornell · Sep 6, 2017

evetsf said:
John Koch said:

...Concerning the "30-minute limit," don't the N. American models simply start a new file after each 4GB clip is completed? Does the camera ever actually stop at 30 minutes? In any case, it appears the FZ2500 is not limited to 30 minutes...

Click to expand...

Here's the deal with file sizes and time limits -

First, the FZ1000 does have a 30-minute limit; at least that's what the manuals and specifications say. If you hit that limit and still have enough room on your SD card, you just start recording again to build a new file. Obviously, there will be a bit of a time gap between files.

However, the FZ1000 is also limited to using FAT32-formatted cards. The maximum FAT32 file size is 4GB, so if one is shooting 4K video that means that a long video is broken up into about 5 1/2-minute clips until the 30-minute limit is reached. There's a noticeable "blip" between clips if you splice the files together.

Oooh. That sounds like a deal-breaker for me. Thanks for the info!

evetsf said:
The FZ2500 is different in both areas: first, it's not limited to 30 minutes, but it can also recognize and use exFAT-formatted SD cards, and will automagically format large-size cards as exFAT. The maximum exFAT file size is greater than the largest card the FZ2500 will handle, so a 4K video will get recorded in one continuous file until there's no more room left on the card.

Plug an exFAT-formatted card into an FZ1000 and it will complain that it can't use the card. You'd need to re-format it in the camera, at which point it will get changed to FAT32.

Steve

Corkcampbell · Sep 7, 2017

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FZ1000 for video of presentations?

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