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will focus

will focus

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New camera...check

Bunch of lenses...check

New phone for new camera...check

New laptop for new camera...check

New tripod for new camera...check

New camera bag for new camera...check

Bunch of accessories for new camera I'll never use...check

Printer...ummmm

I'm stumped. I've read, I've looked, still stumped.

I'd like a good printer, dedicated to photo printing since I've decided that's what everyone is getting for Christmas...photos of me. Well maybe not me, but photos taken by me.

I am curious about this Canon 100 that is on sale this month for 379 with a 200 dollar rebate. I hear good things, mostly, and some bad... ie; expensive regiments of ink.

I wasted an hour of my life at Best Buy, the only game in town here, to see real printers in person. They didn't have the Canon, or any other dedicated photo printer for that matter.

I have an Olympus em10mkii with a few lenses that will probably grow. I will probably upgrade body and lenses over time as I seem to be diving back into photography lately.

I'd like a quality printer but I don't need it to cost as much as a car. The Canon is almost too good to be true from a cost/benefit perspective, I think. I'd probably be comfortable with something up to about 500 bucks if you can suggest something other than the Canon which would produce the same quality images with less maintenance.

Any Suggestions??

Thank you

Will
 
will focus said:
I am curious about this Canon 100 that is on sale this month for 379 with a 200 dollar rebate. I hear good things, mostly, and some bad... ie; expensive regiments of ink....

I'd like a quality printer but I don't need it to cost as much as a car. The Canon is almost too good to be true from a cost/benefit perspective, I think. I'd probably be comfortable with something up to about 500 bucks if you can suggest something other than the Canon which would produce the same quality images with less maintenance
Click to expand...
Actually B&H at least currently offers you a Pro-100 with 50 sheets of 13x19 inch paper for $380 up front that qualifies for a $250 rebate (not just $200--the free paper actually qualifies you for the $50 higher rebate), so you pay a net of $130 and get a box of decent paper too.

As far as less maintenance than the Pro-100: no such thing! The Pro-100 is a dye-ink printer, and a Canon at that. Its only real competitor is the Epson Artisan 1430, which is more expensive ($330), probably not quite as good image-quality wise (it lacks the dark and light gray inks that the Pro-100 has), and is probably not as trouble-free (even in dye-ink printers like these two, by reputation Canon is somewhat less clog-prone than Epson). Anything 'better' than a Pro-100 will be a pigment-ink printer that will be much more prone to clogs.

So unless you want to print images larger than 13x19 inches, or you want the best results on uncoated matte and 'art' papers instead of regular glossy, semi-gloss, and luster photo papers, the Pro-100 is the clear choice at the moment.

FWIW, I have an older, smaller Epson R280 at home, but it uses the same inkset at the Artisan 1430, and we have a Pro-100 at work. The R280 is nice and I'm sure that 1430 would be nice; but if you have the space for a larger printer, the Pro-100 is the deal to get.
 
NAwlins Contrarian said:
NAwlins Contrarian said:
I am curious about this Canon 100 that is on sale this month for 379 with a 200 dollar rebate. I hear good things, mostly, and some bad... ie; expensive regiments of ink....

I'd like a quality printer but I don't need it to cost as much as a car. The Canon is almost too good to be true from a cost/benefit perspective, I think. I'd probably be comfortable with something up to about 500 bucks if you can suggest something other than the Canon which would produce the same quality images with less maintenance
Click to expand...
Actually B&H at least currently offers you a Pro-100 with 50 sheets of 13x19 inch paper for $380 up front that qualifies for a $250 rebate (not just $200--the free paper actually qualifies you for the $50 higher rebate), so you pay a net of $130 and get a box of decent paper too.

As far as less maintenance than the Pro-100: no such thing! The Pro-100 is a dye-ink printer, and a Canon at that. Its only real competitor is the Epson Artisan 1430, which is more expensive ($330), probably not quite as good image-quality wise (it lacks the dark and light gray inks that the Pro-100 has), and is probably not as trouble-free (even in dye-ink printers like these two, by reputation Canon is somewhat less clog-prone than Epson). Anything 'better' than a Pro-100 will be a pigment-ink printer that will be much more prone to clogs.

So unless you want to print images larger than 13x19 inches, or you want the best results on uncoated matte and 'art' papers instead of regular glossy, semi-gloss, and luster photo papers, the Pro-100 is the clear choice at the moment.

FWIW, I have an older, smaller Epson R280 at home, but it uses the same inkset at the Artisan 1430, and we have a Pro-100 at work. The R280 is nice and I'm sure that 1430 would be nice; but if you have the space for a larger printer, the Pro-100 is the deal to get.
Click to expand...
Thank you. All I need is a kick in the right direction. I think you just confirmed what I have been told, heard or read. Hard to beat the price. If it doesn't work out I'll use it as an ottoman.
 
If you're not in a hurry, you might want to wait on the Pro 100... I bought a 2nd one, just because the price after rebate was a ridiculously low $49, which still sits in the new box in my garage for the day when I need a new print head or my 1st Pro 100 craps out, etc.

Of course there's no guarantee that Canon will continue the crazy rebates on the Pro 100, but the current rebate seems less of a good deal as has been offered in the past. No guarantee that the rebates may get worse instead of better too of course, but just wanted you to know that the current rebate is definitely not close to the best rebates Canon has offered in the past.

Good luck.
 
jefftee said:
If you're not in a hurry, you might want to wait on the Pro 100... I bought a 2nd one, just because the price after rebate was a ridiculously low $49, which still sits in the new box in my garage for the day when I need a new print head or my 1st Pro 100 craps out, etc.

Of course there's no guarantee that Canon will continue the crazy rebates on the Pro 100, but the current rebate seems less of a good deal as has been offered in the past. No guarantee that the rebates may get worse instead of better too of course, but just wanted you to know that the current rebate is definitely not close to the best rebates Canon has offered in the past.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I appreciate the tip. I think I could come up with a dozen reasons NOT to buy a printer but I've already lost that argument with myself. The difference in price you quoted is probably not enough for me to quibble over. I mean after all, a net of a hundred and fifty bucks or so for a quality printer is pretty fair, based on some of the plastic junk I've looked at over the last couple of days. But again, I greatly appreciate the reply and the advice, thank you!
 
will focus said:
New camera...check

Bunch of lenses...check

New phone for new camera...check

New laptop for new camera...check

New tripod for new camera...check

New camera bag for new camera...check

Bunch of accessories for new camera I'll never use...check

Printer...ummmm

I'm stumped. I've read, I've looked, still stumped.

I'd like a good printer, dedicated to photo printing since I've decided that's what everyone is getting for Christmas...photos of me. Well maybe not me, but photos taken by me.

I am curious about this Canon 100 that is on sale this month for 379 with a 200 dollar rebate. I hear good things, mostly, and some bad... ie; expensive regiments of ink.

I wasted an hour of my life at Best Buy, the only game in town here, to see real printers in person. They didn't have the Canon, or any other dedicated photo printer for that matter.

I have an Olympus em10mkii with a few lenses that will probably grow. I will probably upgrade body and lenses over time as I seem to be diving back into photography lately.

I'd like a quality printer but I don't need it to cost as much as a car. The Canon is almost too good to be true from a cost/benefit perspective, I think. I'd probably be comfortable with something up to about 500 bucks if you can suggest something other than the Canon which would produce the same quality images with less maintenance.

Any Suggestions??

Thank you

Will
Click to expand...
This is gonna sting and I apologize in advance!

You've spent a small fortune on equipment and gear and now you are going to say inks cost too much?

Spoiler alert!

Ink for All printers will cost you a lot.

Sorry but that is the Wrong attitude to adopt when considering getting into home photo printing.

The PRO-100 is indeed excellent. Will produce magnificent color and B&W Prints on glossy, luster, satin and baryta papers. Not so great on matte media though there are methods for that.

Carts will run $15 a piece. A set will run you About $115. But of course you can always modify, reset and refill your original carts and save about 1/8 after you spend the initial $$ to get set up. You save but lose print longevity big time. Color reproduction can come close after custom profiling.

Oh and don't even consider cheap compatibles from eBay or amazon. If you value your print head.

Scaring you yet?

Joe
 
The other accessories for your new camera do not entail a large new discipline with them; home printing does. If you want to do it, the aesthetic reward is great. If you do not want to plunge into it, a good online print service might be a better choice. And you can get neatly folded cards with your photos on them for your holiday project.
 
jtoolman said:
You've spent a small fortune on equipment and gear and now you are going to say inks cost too much?

Spoiler alert!

Ink for All printers will cost you a lot.

Sorry but that is the Wrong attitude to adopt when considering getting into home photo printing.
Click to expand...
Expanding a bit on what Joe said on printing costs: IMO printing at home is mostly about the quality / control you can get, and satisfaction of doing it yourself, plus the immediate gratification. At least if and when you implement color management, it can also be about getting results that are better than what you can get from a lab unless you're willing to spend considerably more money.

But printing at home with a Pro-100 is not really expensive, at least compared to the reasonable alternatives. Red River Paper tested ink consumption on the Pro-100, and they came out to $2.70 for 13x19 inches of ink coverage if the cartridges cost $14.99 each (and sometimes you can get them a little cheaper). So suppose you print an 8x10 inch area on a letter-size sheet of photo paper. You're laying down $0.87 ink. Canon's fairly standard photo papers, in letter-size, cost from about $0.19 per sheet for the thinner GP-701 glossy to about $0.70 each for PT-101 "Platinum", with many of them clustering about $0.40 to $0.43 per sheet (including the perennial favorite LU-101 Pro Luster and the PP-301 Photo Paper Plus Glossy II). So using Canon ink and Canon photo paper to print an 8x10 inch image on letter-size paper, a Pro-100 costs you about $1.06 to $1.57, typically about $1.29.

What do you pay now for 8x10 inch prints? Adorama Pix is $1.59 or $2.24, depending on paper. Bay Photo is $1.79 or $3.50, depending on whether they color-correct. Meridian is $1.99 or $2.59, depending on paper. Mpix is $2.29 or $2.89, depending on paper. Shutterfly is $2.79 or $4.19, depending on paper. Walgreen's is $3.99. Most if not all of them add shipping charges.

And in larger print sizes, the Pro-100's savings are even greater.

Now if you want to print 4x6 inch prints at the lowest possible cost, then printing at home is not the way to go. And if you want to crank out a lot of prints in a short time, then printing at home is not the way to go. But the Pro-100 can be a great choice.
 
The Pro 100 is an excellent starter printer, the best around, but the ink is going to cost you, there's no getting around that. That's because of the small 15ml cartridges which dramatically raise the costs/ml. So just get used to it and don't complain as the print quality will be excellent (and 3rd party inks fade fast). Larger 80ml cartridges are only available as you move up in printer size, such as the Canon Pro 1000 and the Epson P800 at around $1,000, more than you want to pay and more printer than a beginner needs.

Cost of Printing: Calculate Your Per Page Print Costs

Inkjet Printing Costs & How to Calculate Ink Cartridge Usage
www.redrivercatalog.com www.redrivercatalog.com

But you will need to buy a monitor calibrator to insure that what you see on your screen is what your print will look like (or at least close to), otherwise you'll waste a lot of paper and ink (more than the cost of the calibrator over time) trying to get the colors you want. Most recommend the Colormunki:

Loading…

www.amazon.com

BTW, don't be fooled by the various "self-calibration" programs floating around the web promising that you can easily color balance your monitor by just looking at a few colored patterns and adjusting your monitor accordingly. The human eye is just not that good. I started out many years ago with an Epson 1400 trying to to color balance my monitor by eye and wasted hundreds of dollars on paper and ink before giving up and just buying a calibrator. Since then my prints have (for the most part) been fine.

Above all else do this because you find printing fun and not because you want to save money, because you won't. You'll make enough mistakes starting out that it will cost you far more than sending you pictures to a pro lab.

But eventually you'll learn and the cost per print will drop, but it will never become a inexpensive as Costco or other cheap labs. That doesn't happen unless you buy the large pro printers such as the Epson P5000 17" with 200ml cartridges or the Canon 24" Pro 2000 and Epson P7000 with 700ml cartridges, but these are way beyond you at the moment.

But the main thing is to just have fun.
 
jtoolman said:
will focus said:
New camera...check

Bunch of lenses...check

New phone for new camera...check

New laptop for new camera...check

New tripod for new camera...check

New camera bag for new camera...check

Bunch of accessories for new camera I'll never use...check

Printer...ummmm

I'm stumped. I've read, I've looked, still stumped.

I'd like a good printer, dedicated to photo printing since I've decided that's what everyone is getting for Christmas...photos of me. Well maybe not me, but photos taken by me.

I am curious about this Canon 100 that is on sale this month for 379 with a 200 dollar rebate. I hear good things, mostly, and some bad... ie; expensive regiments of ink.

I wasted an hour of my life at Best Buy, the only game in town here, to see real printers in person. They didn't have the Canon, or any other dedicated photo printer for that matter.

I have an Olympus em10mkii with a few lenses that will probably grow. I will probably upgrade body and lenses over time as I seem to be diving back into photography lately.

I'd like a quality printer but I don't need it to cost as much as a car. The Canon is almost too good to be true from a cost/benefit perspective, I think. I'd probably be comfortable with something up to about 500 bucks if you can suggest something other than the Canon which would produce the same quality images with less maintenance.

Any Suggestions??

Thank you

Will
Click to expand...
This is gonna sting and I apologize in advance!

You've spent a small fortune on equipment and gear and now you are going to say inks cost too much?

Spoiler alert!

Ink for All printers will cost you a lot.

Sorry but that is the Wrong attitude to adopt when considering getting into home photo printing.

The PRO-100 is indeed excellent. Will produce magnificent color and B&W Prints on glossy, luster, satin and baryta papers. Not so great on matte media though there are methods for that.

Carts will run $15 a piece. A set will run you About $115. But of course you can always modify, reset and refill your original carts and save about 1/8 after you spend the initial $$ to get set up. You save but lose print longevity big time. Color reproduction can come close after custom profiling.

Oh and don't even consider cheap compatibles from eBay or amazon. If you value your print head.

Scaring you yet?

Joe

--
MY VIDEO CHANNEL. PRINTING and personal videos.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz9YXaSulpM90vC24lmAeZA
Micromachining and Miniature Cabinetmaking channel
JTOOLMAN1949 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFPD5beoll9TvvW2u_dR0hQ
Click to expand...
Thanks, and it ain't even Halloween yet. No, I don't think you're scaring me. You're right, I probably shouldn't concern myself with the cost of ink. I guess what I was getting at was the wasting of ink during purge cycles. I've never had a photo printer so the whole purge cycle thing is new to me. I'm sure it has been made a bigger issue than it actually is, and I haven't done that narrative any favors by being overly concerned with it. I had someone explain it to me this way today. He said, manufacturers sell the printers cheap. It's the ink they get you on. Like how hotel rooms in Vegas are comped so you drop your cash at the blackjack table. I know there are going to be costs involved in home printing. I'm just trying to be a knowledge sponge and learn as much as I can before I call B&H tomorrow and order one. Thanks again!
 
NAwlins Contrarian said:
NAwlins Contrarian said:
You've spent a small fortune on equipment and gear and now you are going to say inks cost too much?

Spoiler alert!

Ink for All printers will cost you a lot.

Sorry but that is the Wrong attitude to adopt when considering getting into home photo printing.
Click to expand...
Expanding a bit on what Joe said on printing costs: IMO printing at home is mostly about the quality / control you can get, and satisfaction of doing it yourself, plus the immediate gratification. At least if and when you implement color management, it can also be about getting results that are better than what you can get from a lab unless you're willing to spend considerably more money.

But printing at home with a Pro-100 is not really expensive, at least compared to the reasonable alternatives. Red River Paper tested ink consumption on the Pro-100, and they came out to $2.70 for 13x19 inches of ink coverage if the cartridges cost $14.99 each (and sometimes you can get them a little cheaper). So suppose you print an 8x10 inch area on a letter-size sheet of photo paper. You're laying down $0.87 ink. Canon's fairly standard photo papers, in letter-size, cost from about $0.19 per sheet for the thinner GP-701 glossy to about $0.70 each for PT-101 "Platinum", with many of them clustering about $0.40 to $0.43 per sheet (including the perennial favorite LU-101 Pro Luster and the PP-301 Photo Paper Plus Glossy II). So using Canon ink and Canon photo paper to print an 8x10 inch image on letter-size paper, a Pro-100 costs you about $1.06 to $1.57, typically about $1.29.

What do you pay now for 8x10 inch prints? Adorama Pix is $1.59 or $2.24, depending on paper. Bay Photo is $1.79 or $3.50, depending on whether they color-correct. Meridian is $1.99 or $2.59, depending on paper. Mpix is $2.29 or $2.89, depending on paper. Shutterfly is $2.79 or $4.19, depending on paper. Walgreen's is $3.99. Most if not all of them add shipping charges.

And in larger print sizes, the Pro-100's savings are even greater.

Now if you want to print 4x6 inch prints at the lowest possible cost, then printing at home is not the way to go. And if you want to crank out a lot of prints in a short time, then printing at home is not the way to go. But the Pro-100 can be a great choice.
Click to expand...
Thank you again. You're input and detail of the costs is helpful and helps close the deal, so to speak. I appreciate the time and content of your post!
 
mike earussi said:
[Y]ou will need to buy a monitor calibrator to insure that what you see on your screen is what your print will look like (or at least close to), otherwise you'll waste a lot of paper and ink (more than the cost of the calibrator over time) trying to get the colors you want. Most recommend the Colormunki:
Click to expand...
That is very true--but it is also true if you send your photo to a lab for printing and let the lab or even the lab's computer decide what is the 'right' color balance for your photo. Most labs either color-correct for you--meaning they make the final call on color-balancing, taking that aesthetic choice away from you--or else let you choose 'no corrections'--meaning they print it just the way you sent it, even if your colors seem out-of-balance. If your monitor is out-of-standard, it's very hard for you to maintain both control and accuracy.

Personally I decided on, and have been quite happy with, the X-Rite ColorMunki Display, which runs about $120 to $150 new. There are also the simpler X-Rite ColorMunki Smile, about $70 to $100; the fancier X-Rite i1 Display Pro, about $200 to $250; and various DataColor Spyder models (which some people say are not as good that the X-Rite models).
 
mike earussi said:
The Pro 100 is an excellent starter printer, the best around, but the ink is going to cost you, there's no getting around that. That's because of the small 15ml cartridges which dramatically raise the costs/ml. So just get used to it and don't complain as the print quality will be excellent (and 3rd party inks fade fast). Larger 80ml cartridges are only available as you move up in printer size, such as the Canon Pro 1000 and the Epson P800 at around $1,000, more than you want to pay and more printer than a beginner needs.

http://www.redrivercatalog.com/cost-of-inkjet-printing.html

But you will need to buy a monitor calibrator to insure that what you see on your screen is what your print will look like (or at least close to), otherwise you'll waste a lot of paper and ink (more than the cost of the calibrator over time) trying to get the colors you want. Most recommend the Colormunki:

https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-CMUNS...=1501040011&sr=1-2&keywords=X-Rite+ColorMunki

BTW, don't be fooled by the various "self-calibration" programs floating around the web promising that you can easily color balance your monitor by just looking at a few colored patterns and adjusting your monitor accordingly. The human eye is just not that good. I started out many years ago with an Epson 1400 trying to to color balance my monitor by eye and wasted hundreds of dollars on paper and ink before giving up and just buying a calibrator. Since then my prints have (for the most part) been fine.

Above all else do this because you find printing fun and not because you want to save money, because you won't. You'll make enough mistakes starting out that it will cost you far more than sending you pictures to a pro lab.

But eventually you'll learn and the cost per print will drop, but it will never become a inexpensive as Costco or other cheap labs. That doesn't happen unless you buy the large pro printers such as the Epson P5000 17" with 200ml cartridges or the Canon 24" Pro 2000 and Epson P7000 with 700ml cartridges, but these are way beyond you at the moment.

But the main thing is to just have fun.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the tips and the links. And it is all about fun. This isn't a business plan I'll be taking to a venture capitalist anytime soon. I hadn't considered the calibrator. That'll be good fodder for my next thread! I suppose you're right though, if I'm going to do this right I should dot all my i's and cross my t's. I'll be happier with the result.
 
Just enjoy. The reality is that the out of the box quality of today's printers, even consumer grade ones like an Epson WorkForce or Canon MG or TS is simply amazing.

One you have a printer, you will enjoy your photography even more, I'm sure, and so many other uses come to mind, do-it-yourself greeting cards, brochures, mini-posters, etc. Just making your own Holiday or Christmas cards is a thrill plus the gifts you are considering.
 
Charles2 said:
The other accessories for your new camera do not entail a large new discipline with them; home printing does. If you want to do it, the aesthetic reward is great. If you do not want to plunge into it, a good online print service might be a better choice. And you can get neatly folded cards with your photos on them for your holiday project.
Click to expand...
Thank you. In for a penny, in for a pound they say. I need a large new discipline, I'm old.
 
will focus said:
[W]hat I was getting at was the wasting of ink during purge cycles. I've never had a photo printer so the whole purge cycle thing is new to me. I'm sure it has been made a bigger issue than it actually is ....
Click to expand...
My monitoring of the printing and ink use on our Pro-100 suggests that the ink used for self-cleaning is not that much. Joe, who is much more of a printer guru, has commented elsewhere that the dye-ink Pro-100 seems to use much less ink for self-cleaning than pigment-ink printers do.
will focus said:
I had someone explain it to me this way today. He said, manufacturers sell the printers cheap. It's the ink they get you on.
Click to expand...
Definitely. One way to look at the Pro-100 deal is that you're paying $125 for an ink set and $5 for the printer, and getting $50 of paper thrown in free. The same basic model more-or-less applies up through the Canon Pro-1000, currently $1000 after rebate: your $1000 gets you a $700 ink set, so you're only spending $300 on the printer. You really have to go up to the real pro models that take 24 inch wide rollpaper (or larger) to get away from this business model. And regardless of cost, all of those would be (IMO) terrible choices for a newbie printing at home.
 
Gesture said:
Just enjoy. The reality is that the out of the box quality of today's printers, even consumer grade ones like an Epson WorkForce or Canon MG or TS is simply amazing.

One you have a printer, you will enjoy your photography even more, I'm sure, and so many other uses come to mind, do-it-yourself greeting cards, brochures, mini-posters, etc. Just making your own Holiday or Christmas cards is a thrill plus the gifts you are considering.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. It'll remind me of my old college darkroom days when I watched my own prints magically come to life. I still have those prints and contact sheets!
 
You have received some good advice so far.

I got my first pro-100 this summer. I bought it used. I then bought a backup pro-100 and then a pro-10. The last two are sitting on the floor, in the original boxes, in my entryway to my house. Wa!

I also have a tall stack of 13x19-inch paper.

I do love printing my images. I have thousands of them. And now when I go out to shoot, I am thinking about getting images that will look good when printed up big. It's a passion.

Be careful of what you are getting into. Some say you must feed the printer prints to keep it from clogging. But I say you will feed the printer just because of love making images. A digital image is not quite as enjoyable until you see it printed up big on quality paper. And there is a learning curve just for printing, don't forget that.

One thing: you got a lot of new gear in your hands now. It might be wise to hold off on printing until you build up your skill with the camera. Maybe you can use printing your images to help you build your skill faster, I do not know. If money is a concern, getting some good images under your belt might be a good idea before you "dive in" on printing (and learning what it takes to get good results). Of course, you can buy a printer now while the good rebates are happening and just let it sit. But I somehow think that selling ink is going to continue and the "almost free printer" thing is going to continue to help drive camera sales.

I secretly want a pro-1000 because of joe. Beware of joe. :)
 
Ordered the Pixma 100 this morning. Should have it by Friday and be in the home printing mode by this time next week. Thanks to all here for the advice and input. Much appreciated!
 
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