Internal reflections when photographing the moon

RickRo

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I took this shot with a Sony a6000 using a Sony - 70-200mm f/4 G E-Mount Telephoto Zoom Lens.

I was annoyed by the green reflection I had to edit out.

bcd1e7886d52490db3afaf3fd47dc728.jpg

I read somewhere that perhaps a quality prime lens instead of a zoom would eliminate this. So I bought a Canon EF - 200mm - F/2.8 and an E-mount adapter. Manual focus, no problem.

But, still have the green reflection!

515ac0775ad84bf9b531846aa0505ed8.jpg

What gives?
 
I suspect you have a filter on the front of your lens. If so, take it off and the reflections should disappear.

Alternatively, if you use the correct exposure for theat part of the moon's surface that is in sunlight, then the reflection should be sufficiently faint that it will not be noticeable (assuming you are using a reasonably good quality filter).

I think those are the only two options other than removing it in pp.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7333331953/should-you-use-a-uv-filter-on-your-lens
 
I suspect you have a filter on the front of your lens. If so, take it off and the reflections should disappear.

Alternatively, if you use the correct exposure for theat part of the moon's surface that is in sunlight, then the reflection should be sufficiently faint that it will not be noticeable (assuming you are using a reasonably good quality filter).

I think those are the only two options other than removing it in pp.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7333331953/should-you-use-a-uv-filter-on-your-lens
I do keep a UV filter on my lenses, however this reflection appeared even after I removed it.
 
I suspect you have a filter on the front of your lens. If so, take it off and the reflections should disappear.

Alternatively, if you use the correct exposure for theat part of the moon's surface that is in sunlight, then the reflection should be sufficiently faint that it will not be noticeable (assuming you are using a reasonably good quality filter).

I think those are the only two options other than removing it in pp.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7333331953/should-you-use-a-uv-filter-on-your-lens
I do keep a UV filter on my lenses, however this reflection appeared even after I removed it.
That's very unusual. It could be lens flare, but most decent quality lenses produce much less prominent flare than that.

Please let us know if you find the cause.
 
Unfortunately, this kind of thing often happens. As suggested, the filter was one factor. Also, clean optics are essential. But all lenses display some flare/reflection to some extent, though this is severe. Your image is tremendously overexposed.

You are photographing an extremely bright subject (the moon) against pure black which is an acid test for a lens. Remember that the proper exposure for the moon is the same as raw sunlight falling on gray dust (like in a barbecue grill), though not sunlight on sand like some suggest.

Also, some lenses are just worse than others in this respect. Manufacturers work like heck to use exotic materials and multicoating to reduce this.
 
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As Hotdog says the moon is lit directly by the sun, (it is not in darkness), and correct exposure is relatively constant at 1/125 sec, f/5.6, ISO100.
 
I agree that a filter probably caused the reflection in both shots. It is easily cloned out, so not a big problem. I also agree that the exposure is way too long, and incorrect totally. There are many correct settings if you take into account that the moon is a very bright object and against black or near black sky, unless in daytime.

Here is one of mine taken during super moon 2014. No sharpening applied, just slight darkening to bring out the moon details. this one taken with 300 f4 afs lens without VR.

82a3c586b0b844d59fec38a692fa5ee3.jpg

this one with 80 400 afs VR lens @ 400mm.

813fbc812d734d12b5f266c83f8878c3.jpg



--
Visit my gallery at https://www.flickr.com/photos/elitefroggyspics/
View of Yosemite Valley, Bridalveil fall 4 frame vertical pano taken from the tunnel parking lot.
 
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I took this shot with a Sony a6000 using a Sony - 70-200mm f/4 G E-Mount Telephoto Zoom Lens.

I was annoyed by the green reflection I had to edit out.

bcd1e7886d52490db3afaf3fd47dc728.jpg
I would say that's extremely good performance by that lens. You have overexposed the bright part by, maybe 11 1/2 stops(?) in order to expose the shadow. And the flare is barely visible against the black sky. Congratulations!
 
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Regarding overexposure, then, consider the first shot. My goal was to have a photo that included the shadowed part of the moon. I suppose some kind of HDR technique would have allowed me to "stack" a few different exposures (using the properly exposed and presumably reflection-less one for the dark sky). This would require a clear plan - because the shots I did get were a range of experiments across different shutter speeds and ISO values. The moon moved A LOT in between each exposure - just seconds apart!
 
Regarding overexposure, then, consider the first shot. My goal was to have a photo that included the shadowed part of the moon. I suppose some kind of HDR technique would have allowed me to "stack" a few different exposures (using the properly exposed and presumably reflection-less one for the dark sky). This would require a clear plan - because the shots I did get were a range of experiments across different shutter speeds and ISO values. The moon moved A LOT in between each exposure - just seconds apart!
What you're trying to do is take a photo that the camera is not really capable of recording. The difference between the bright and dark side of the moon is far greater than sunlight/shadow. To get usable information on the dark side the overexposure on the bright side has leaked into neighbouring pixels.

Cameras focus light so finding the darkest thing available to point a standard DSLR at and expecting a decent image doesn't seem like a worthwhile strategy. ;-)
 
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As others have pointed out your exposure is way too bright. This is typical - even at ISO 100 you can shoot f8 and 1/320s and get good exposure. This was processed using ACR defaults plus slightly increased contrast and a lot of cropping. I've got dozens like this and don't remember seeing any internal reflections in any of the images (7D with 100-400 and 7D2 with 100-400M2). A lot of these are shot hand held, especially with the 100-400M2.





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Regarding overexposure, then, consider the first shot. My goal was to have a photo that included the shadowed part of the moon. I suppose some kind of HDR technique would have allowed me to "stack" a few different exposures (using the properly exposed and presumably reflection-less one for the dark sky). This would require a clear plan - because the shots I did get were a range of experiments across different shutter speeds and ISO values. The moon moved A LOT in between each exposure - just seconds apart!
What you're trying to do is take a photo that the camera is not really capable of recording. The difference between the bright and dark side of the moon is far greater than sunlight/shadow. To get usable information on the dark side the overexposure on the bright side has leaked into neighbouring pixels.

Cameras focus light so finding the darkest thing available to point a standard DSLR at and expecting a decent image doesn't seem like a worthwhile strategy. ;-)
Exactly. I am trying to learn from this experience -- and anyone who might help. A single exposure is clearly not going to work. But, I wonder if multiple in rapid succession with different exposures might. I expect some "bleeding" along the high contrast lines.

Thoughts?
 
Thoughts?
Thoughts about what? You will have to make at least two or three different shots at widely varying exposures. Then align the images on the moon and use software to combine exposures for HDR. Straightforward software problem.
 
Regarding overexposure, then, consider the first shot. My goal was to have a photo that included the shadowed part of the moon. I suppose some kind of HDR technique would have allowed me to "stack" a few different exposures (using the properly exposed and presumably reflection-less one for the dark sky). This would require a clear plan - because the shots I did get were a range of experiments across different shutter speeds and ISO values. The moon moved A LOT in between each exposure - just seconds apart!
What you're trying to do is take a photo that the camera is not really capable of recording. The difference between the bright and dark side of the moon is far greater than sunlight/shadow. To get usable information on the dark side the overexposure on the bright side has leaked into neighbouring pixels.

Cameras focus light so finding the darkest thing available to point a standard DSLR at and expecting a decent image doesn't seem like a worthwhile strategy. ;-)
Exactly. I am trying to learn from this experience -- and anyone who might help. A single exposure is clearly not going to work. But, I wonder if multiple in rapid succession with different exposures might. I expect some "bleeding" along the high contrast lines.

Thoughts?
My thoughts are that cameras work by collecting light. So if you point it at the dark side of the moon and take shots at night you will only learn that a camera doesn't work very well to capture objects that emit very little light. If you want to learn then use it during the day when there is light.

No exposure will work well. There is little colour or contrast. The resolution is poor because of the ISO, and the moon moves. You only seem to have a 200mm lens that will not give you any real resolution because the moon will alway be a small spot in a big dark space.

You're not going to learn what your camera can do by doing something it can't do. What do you expect to get when you use it in the lowest possible light levels, a usable image? The one thing you can learn is that a camera is a tool with practical limits. If you want results use it within those limits.

Look at what you've taken, are they ever going to be converted into a worthwhile image?
 
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Regarding overexposure, then, consider the first shot. My goal was to have a photo that included the shadowed part of the moon. I suppose some kind of HDR technique would have allowed me to "stack" a few different exposures (using the properly exposed and presumably reflection-less one for the dark sky). This would require a clear plan - because the shots I did get were a range of experiments across different shutter speeds and ISO values. The moon moved A LOT in between each exposure - just seconds apart!
What you're trying to do is take a photo that the camera is not really capable of recording. The difference between the bright and dark side of the moon is far greater than sunlight/shadow. To get usable information on the dark side the overexposure on the bright side has leaked into neighbouring pixels.

Cameras focus light so finding the darkest thing available to point a standard DSLR at and expecting a decent image doesn't seem like a worthwhile strategy. ;-)
Exactly. I am trying to learn from this experience -- and anyone who might help. A single exposure is clearly not going to work. But, I wonder if multiple in rapid succession with different exposures might. I expect some "bleeding" along the high contrast lines.

Thoughts?
My thoughts are that cameras work by collecting light. So if you point it at the dark side of the moon and take shots at night you will only learn that a camera doesn't work very well to capture objects that emit very little light. If you want to learn then use it during the day when there is light.

No exposure will work well. There is little colour or contrast. The resolution is poor because of the ISO, and the moon moves. You only seem to have a 200mm lens that will not give you any real resolution because the moon will alway be a small spot in a big dark space.

You're not going to learn what your camera can do by doing something it can't do. What do you expect to get when you use it in the lowest possible light levels, a usable image? The one thing you can learn is that a camera is a tool with practical limits. If you want results use it within those limits.

Look at what you've taken, are they ever going to be converted into a worthwhile image?
I am not sure if it's worthwhile, really. But, I enjoy looking at it (the cropped / edited version). I started this thread wondering if I could avoid the lens flare - but I now realize I cannot if I want to capture the shadowed part in one shot.


I'm generally happy with this shot. The part that bothers me is I can see some artifacts in the cloned part where I took out the lens flare.
 
Thoughts?
Thoughts about what? You will have to make at least two or three different shots at widely varying exposures. Then align the images on the moon and use software to combine exposures for HDR. Straightforward software problem.
Ok - Ill try it. I'll have to see what is the fastest way I can switch the settings to take the different shots. Maybe tethered?
 
Thoughts?
Thoughts about what? You will have to make at least two or three different shots at widely varying exposures. Then align the images on the moon and use software to combine exposures for HDR. Straightforward software problem.
Ok - Ill try it. I'll have to see what is the fastest way I can switch the settings to take the different shots. Maybe tethered?
That will reduce noise in the image, but it will do nothing to reduce flare in the lens.
 
Thoughts?
Thoughts about what? You will have to make at least two or three different shots at widely varying exposures. Then align the images on the moon and use software to combine exposures for HDR. Straightforward software problem.
Ok - Ill try it. I'll have to see what is the fastest way I can switch the settings to take the different shots. Maybe tethered?
That will reduce noise in the image, but it will do nothing to reduce flare in the lens.
I think it might. Because one of my exposures would be more like this test shot, which has no flare:

2c4309383530410e9dcad49a2dd2b175.jpg



Later when I combine them with software, I'll use the sky from that one. At least that is what I was imagining.
 
Look at what you've taken, are they ever going to be converted into a worthwhile image?
I am not sure if it's worthwhile, really. But, I enjoy looking at it (the cropped / edited version). I started this thread wondering if I could avoid the lens flare - but I now realize I cannot if I want to capture the shadowed part in one shot.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/9624229f129...1E2520F5C6CDB38C9&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

I'm generally happy with this shot. The part that bothers me is I can see some artifacts in the cloned part where I took out the lens flare.
Having fun is alway what you should be aiming for. :-)

So consider these points:

The moon always has the same face towards us, so is always the same view.

Now if you look at David Nall's image you will see that he's waited until the subject was lit. In doing so has been able to produce an image which has sharpness, colour and contrast because the subject was well lit and he was able to use an exposure that allowed him to capture the moon at it's best.

What you're doing is waiting until the moon is at it's worst and trying to use processing to overcome the many limitations you have come across. The moon is not sharp because you have to use a long exposure and a high ISO. Because there is little light reflecting off the shadowed part of the moon there is little colour or contrast. The interval between the two separate exposures produces a highly over-exposed lit side of the moon that is again causing you problems.

So what are the two processes here?

David's is to look at the subject and understand how it's lit.

In you process you are forcing yourself to ignore your subject and the best way of capturing it. You're not seeing the many problems you encounter and learning from them because you're not looking at the subject but only the processing and technical side. You're not learning to observe your subject only to play with programs.

So how does this equate to normal photography? The difference in exposure between the lit and shadowed sides of the moon is more equivalent to trying to take a photo of flowers at night rather than during the day. Instead of learning this you're learning how to force a photo out of the worst possible conditions by over-processing it.

So here's a novel idea that comes if you observe and understand your subject and how it's lit rather than ignoring it and only trying to understand how to over-process it:

Why not shoot the full moon and use your processing skills to add a shadow rather than take it away? You will learn a lot more about photography, processing and observation than following your present path, (your foreground will be better lit, you will have far fewer blending issues when you combine foreground/moon, it's easier to do, etc...). ;-)

Photo by David Nall
Photo by David Nall
 
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Thoughts?
Thoughts about what? You will have to make at least two or three different shots at widely varying exposures. Then align the images on the moon and use software to combine exposures for HDR. Straightforward software problem.
Ok - Ill try it. I'll have to see what is the fastest way I can switch the settings to take the different shots. Maybe tethered?
That will reduce noise in the image, but it will do nothing to reduce flare in the lens.
I think it might. Because one of my exposures would be more like this test shot, which has no flare:

2c4309383530410e9dcad49a2dd2b175.jpg

Later when I combine them with software, I'll use the sky from that one. At least that is what I was imagining.
Yes, I think that would work.
 

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