Can anyone recommend the fastest manual focusing superzoom?

Harris801

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Help please!

I need a superzoom (preferably 800mm plus) for bird photography. An equivalent lens length for a dslr is too expensive and probably too bulky. I currently use a canon sx30 but want to manually focus (branches etc are a problem for auto focus).

I need the ability to focus quickly - a ring is best I think? Does one exist?

Thanks in advance
 
Solution
Harris801 wrote: Please don't read me as being sarcastic. I'm not, just genuinely thrown by my misreading of the lens range.
You are - as Martin.au pointed out - confusing the Panasonic 100-400 lens and the FZ1000 or FZ2000 which are superzoom cameras. The 100-400 lens Cobber55 suggested is really 100-400 mm (I've got one) which is equivalent to a 200-800 on a full frame camera (in field of view). Edit: Noticed that this was resolved while I wrote this comment.

It's also over two pounds and cost around $1800. You're talking $2500-$3000 and 3-4 pounds system weight if you include a decent Micro Four Thirds body and a kit zoom.

Still, it compares favourably both in weight and size to other system cameras with that reach...
I don't think you are correct with this Barry. I think these sizes are actually the equivalent already to a 100-400 lens with the sensor size taken into consideration.

Can anyone else clarify this?
I believe I am right on this. There are plenty of reviews that support this as well. The lens is a 100-400 micro four thirds lens that is 'equivalent to' a 200-800 lens on full frame, if that matters to you. All I know is this lens gives me excellent results for wildlife and airshows. I rate it highly and I am really enjoying using it and learning how to get the most from it.

Good luck with your research and I hope you find what you are after.
 
Help please!

I need a superzoom (preferably 800mm plus) for bird photography. An equivalent lens length for a dslr is too expensive and probably too bulky. I currently use a canon sx30 but want to manually focus (branches etc are a problem for auto focus).

I need the ability to focus quickly - a ring is best I think? Does one exist?

Thanks in advance
My Canon SX720 has a manual mode so I can manually focus via the knobs and that is plenty good enough to get the job done. With a 1000mm lens in a pocketable camera, its the best all rounder out there for non serious usage.
 
So when you said fastest you meant to focus? Or bright at the widest f stop?

The P610/B700 have a little lever on the barrel to nudge it while the evf/lcd zooms in on the subject to get a good view of what you're focusing on. It's the next best thing to a ring, as it feels natural. I'm a bit lazy though - if it misses AF the first time, I just AF again until the AF gets it
 
Lol. Sounds like a case for this


SL 400mm F6.7 Fieldscope

:D

And a M4/3s camera with peaking.
 
So when you said fastest you meant to focus? Or bright at the widest f stop?
I did mean the fastest to focus. The question comes from my experience with the Canon sx30, admittedly an 'old' camera now. I really like and have enjoyed the camera but have missed too many moments to be content with it's performance.
The P610/B700 have a little lever on the barrel to nudge it while the evf/lcd zooms in on the subject to get a good view of what you're focusing on. It's the next best thing to a ring, as it feels natural. I'm a bit lazy though - if it misses AF the first time, I just AF again until the AF gets it
I've been reading the reviews of this camera and it looks good. I'm keen on photography but but it difficult to get the time to read as much as I should on what is out there so your suggestion is welcome!
 
My Canon SX720 has a manual mode so I can manually focus via the knobs and that is plenty good enough to get the job done. With a 1000mm lens in a pocketable camera, its the best all rounder out there for non serious usage.
Do you find it a quick method or is it fiddly? Can it be focused before the proverbial bird has flown?
 
I don't think you are correct with this Barry. I think these sizes are actually the equivalent already to a 100-400 lens with the sensor size taken into consideration.

Can anyone else clarify this?
No, the Panasonic Leica is actually 100-400mm. The sensor 4/3-type, and in order to get equivalent of 35mm film (the most common reference), the number needs to be multiplied by 2 ("crop factor"). So it's equivalent of 200-800mm on 35mm sensor.

The lens of SX30 is 4.3 - 150.5 mm. The "crop factor" is 5,62, and thus is equivalent of 24-840mm on 35mm system.

A 210mm lens on D70 is equivalent of 315mm on 35mm system (crop factor 1.5).

In practice, a good (sharp, large aperture) 600mm equivalent lens is better than bad 800mm equivalent lens, because the image can be cropped. Cropping magnifies the lens aberrations and softness, as well as digital noise. This is when larger equivalent aperture ("crop factor" x actual F-number) and modern sensors become important. Also when cropping, high megapixel counts become useful.

Nikon 70-300mm lens for Nikon 1 system ("crop factor" 2.8) is small and equivalent to 196-840mm. That lens has a very good reputation and has a manual focus ring. Nikon 1 system is pretty much abandoned, so the prices may be attractive at the moment. Based on what I have read, Nikon 1 + 70-300mm is a very attractive option for birders, mainly because the continuous auto-focus is so good (birds in flight should not be a problem, although it's never easy). It's also a very small system. The image quality should be much much better than your SX30, but when shooting birds, almost nothing is good enough.

There are cheaper alternatives to Panasonic Leica 100-400mm for micro four thirds as well. If you are interested in that system and looking for cheaper alternatives, check out Panasonic 100-300mm (note that mk 2 is much better than mk 1, although optically very very close or even the same), Olympus 70-300mm, Tokina 300 manual focus mirror lens. Olympus 300mm f/4 is also great, but over $2000.

When comparing systems and lenses, it's very useful to multiply both the actual focal lengths and F-numbers with "crop factor" to see the actual differences. The bigger the focal length and smaller the F-number, the better.
Thank you for your time in writing the very worthwhile points above. I've been too lazy to follow up the particulars on the sensor to lens relationship but am aware that the difference is to be be noted.

However I'm not sure if I have been unwittingly mislead by just about every review of the Panasonic in which the reviewer says "25-400mm equivalent lens". (Dpreview review quote) I supposed they meant it was a 25-400mm equivalent lens, not something else.

When I bought my Canon sx30 I knew it was a 150mm lens but the review made it clear it was equivalent to 830mm and so I got all excited.

Reading the Panasonic was 400mm equivalent made me less excited. I see I am wrong and can get all excited again but am a bit thrown that I could have been so silly as to misread this figure... if I have.

I have just looked through a couple of more review sites and they all use the word equivalent' I have not read anywhere this camera has a 800mm lens . Am I reading the figure backward?

Please don't read me as being sarcastic. I'm not, just genuinely thrown by my misreading of the lens range. This camera seems a true contender for my bucks if it goes to 800mm.
 
I think they're talking about the PanaLeica 100-400, which is a lens, not a camera. It's for the M4/3s system, and is 200-800mm in 35m equivalent.
 
I need a superzoom (preferably 800mm plus) for bird photography. An equivalent lens length for a dslr is too expensive and probably too bulky. I currently use a canon sx30 but want to manually focus (branches etc are a problem for auto focus).
I'd suggest looking into a mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras that has 'focus peaking' which helps assist manual focus
Most mirrorless cams would have too slow a view dye to the EVF or rear lcd
This is not true.
Yes it's true.
The lag in newer mirrorless is in the low milliseconds,
a couple of new mirrorless cams don't represent "most" mirrorless cams now do they?! Nope
and really not an issue for manual focusing.
of course it is since you'd be trying to trust a lens with LCD screen lag
. I've never used it myself, but I hear that it allows for quick manual focus.
A good focusing dslr will do better than manual focusing and quicker. If manual focusing was faster than auto , it would have not put manual focusing on the extreme back burner
I have both kinds of cameras, mirrorless has no disavantage in focusing compared to a DSLR. Focus peaking is fast. But I get my best focus using focus magnifier, which is only useful for something not actively moving about.
I need the ability to focus quickly - a ring is best I think? Does one exist?
With many of these cameras, just about any old lens will do, as long as you have an adapter that goes between the lens and the camera body.

--
http://therefractedlight.blogspot.com
 
I need a superzoom (preferably 800mm plus) for bird photography. An equivalent lens length for a dslr is too expensive and probably too bulky. I currently use a canon sx30 but want to manually focus (branches etc are a problem for auto focus).
I'd suggest looking into a mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras that has 'focus peaking' which helps assist manual focus
Most mirrorless cams would have too slow a view dye to the EVF or rear lcd
This is not true. The lag in newer mirrorless is in the low milliseconds, and really not an issue for manual focusing.
. I've never used it myself, but I hear that it allows for quick manual focus.
A good focusing dslr will do better than manual focusing and quicker. If manual focusing was faster than auto , it would have not put manual focusing on the extreme back burner
I have both kinds of cameras, mirrorless has no disavantage in focusing compared to a DSLR. Focus peaking is fast. But I get my best focus using focus magnifier, which is only useful for something not actively moving about.
I think a plus with focus peaking for a bird photographer is that it makes it easy to know you are focused one bird and not any surrounding foliage
I need the ability to focus quickly - a ring is best I think? Does one exist?
With many of these cameras, just about any old lens will do, as long as you have an adapter that goes between the lens and the camera body.

--
http://therefractedlight.blogspot.com
 
I need a superzoom (preferably 800mm plus) for bird photography. An equivalent lens length for a dslr is too expensive and probably too bulky. I currently use a canon sx30 but want to manually focus (branches etc are a problem for auto focus).
I'd suggest looking into a mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras that has 'focus peaking' which helps assist manual focus
Most mirrorless cams would have too slow a view dye to the EVF or rear lcd
This is not true.
Yes it's true.
No. It's not true, and hasn't been true for many years.

And, obviously focus peaking, and magnification makes manual focusing far more practical and versatile on mirrorless.
The lag in newer mirrorless is in the low milliseconds,
a couple of new mirrorless cams don't represent "most" mirrorless cams now do they?! Nope
and really not an issue for manual focusing.
of course it is since you'd be trying to trust a lens with LCD screen lag
. I've never used it myself, but I hear that it allows for quick manual focus.
A good focusing dslr will do better than manual focusing and quicker. If manual focusing was faster than auto , it would have not put manual focusing on the extreme back burner
I have both kinds of cameras, mirrorless has no disavantage in focusing compared to a DSLR. Focus peaking is fast. But I get my best focus using focus magnifier, which is only useful for something not actively moving about.
I need the ability to focus quickly - a ring is best I think? Does one exist?
With many of these cameras, just about any old lens will do, as long as you have an adapter that goes between the lens and the camera body.

--
http://therefractedlight.blogspot.com
 
Yeah well, time to forget the ancient sx30. I would say my only (big, big) regret is having waited two years to get into the P600 class.

That's TWO YEARS of missed shots

--
Painting with light
 
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Hi Barry .

I just replied to pannumon regarding this. Love to have your input.
i have no doubt in my mind the lens I suggested is 'equivilent to' a full frame 200-800mm lens. You can get yourself tied up in knots with this equivilence stuff but the main thing is will it do what you need. For me it certainly does. Have a look at these reviews:


http://naturalexposures.com/excellent-reviews-of-leica-100-400mm/

http://admiringlight.com/blog/review-panasonic-leica-100-400mm-f4-6-3-dg-vario-elmar-ois/3/


Some time back I had a Nikon 1 for a time and is was OK. Its a pity Nikon didn't give it the love it needed to thrive.

--

Cheers
Barry
 
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I think they're talking about the PanaLeica 100-400, which is a lens, not a camera. It's for the M4/3s system, and is 200-800mm in 35m equivalent.
Aiiiee! You're right My Bad! I had asked the question specifically (in my mind!) with the superzoom camera compact style as the area I was looking at, not Micro Four Tires or Dslr so when I see the Panasonic Leica 400 mentioned I immediately and blindly followed that path. Thanks for kindly clearing that up!
 
Hi Barry .

I just replied to pannumon regarding this. Love to have your input.
i have no doubt in my mind the lens I suggested is 'equivilent to' a full frame 200-800mm lens. You can get yourself tied up in knots with this equivilence stuff but the main thing is will it do what you need. For me it certainly does. Have a look at these reviews:


http://naturalexposures.com/excellent-reviews-of-leica-100-400mm/

http://admiringlight.com/blog/review-panasonic-leica-100-400mm-f4-6-3-dg-vario-elmar-ois/3/


Some time back I had a Nikon 1 for a time and is was OK. Its a pity Nikon didn't give it the love it needed to thrive.

--

Cheers
Barry
Thanks Barry. It's been pointed out you are referring to the lens not the Panasonic Leica 400 superzoom! My wrong assumption. So sorry to have misread this.
 
Harris801 wrote: Please don't read me as being sarcastic. I'm not, just genuinely thrown by my misreading of the lens range.
You are - as Martin.au pointed out - confusing the Panasonic 100-400 lens and the FZ1000 or FZ2000 which are superzoom cameras. The 100-400 lens Cobber55 suggested is really 100-400 mm (I've got one) which is equivalent to a 200-800 on a full frame camera (in field of view). Edit: Noticed that this was resolved while I wrote this comment.

It's also over two pounds and cost around $1800. You're talking $2500-$3000 and 3-4 pounds system weight if you include a decent Micro Four Thirds body and a kit zoom.

Still, it compares favourably both in weight and size to other system cameras with that reach. The exception being the Nikon with 70-300 that pannum mentioned, but Nikon 1 seems to be a dead system so it's probably not a good investment.

I've used many superzoom models, including Canon SX30 and Panasonic FZ1000. Personally I'd pick the FZ1000 over SX30 and most other superzoom cameras. You're right that it's only 400mm equivalent at full tele, but it has exceptionally much better autofocus than SX30 and the sensor is much better and the lens is significantly faster. The SX30 will have more detail on a stationary bird in good, but not too contrasty light, but a FZ1000 will beat the SX30 in almost any other condition.

As for your original question about manual focus - I've never used a superzoom camera with good manual focus. It's possible on most models, but time consuming and inaccurate. Focus peaking or enlarged picture certainly help, but it's still slow for birding photos. You can however get more configurable focus systems than on the SX30. A small focus point make it easier to nail focus with small subject and/or branches around the bird.

You basically have three options:

1: Get anther small sensor superzoom camera. AF performance is significantly better, at least on some models than on your SX30.

2: Get a superzoom camera with "medium sized" sensor like Panasonic FZ1000, FZ2000 or Sony RX10 III. You loose some reach. FZ1000 goes to 400mm, FZ2000 to 480mm and RX10 III to 600mm, but you'll see significantly better image quality in many pictures. Panasonic has slightly better AF (IMO), RX10 III the best lens. Disadvantages are price and size compared to small sensor models like Canon SX60 HS or Panasonic FZ80/82.

3. Get a mirrorless system camera or a smallish dSLR with a telezoom. You get more flexibility in lenses and bodies and better image quality, maybe even OK manual focus (with the right choises), but at a fairly high cost in both money and size/weight.
 
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Solution
Just had a look at the camera online. I have become a fan of the flip screen and would prefer to have this feature on my next camera.I'm immediately reminded of my A620 which has gone to a watery death. I would take it out in the surf in a water-housing but I hit the sand hard hard once too often and the housing opened. The end. The quality of the image from this little camera was excellent if there was plenty of light and I imagine this model would be of a similar shooting style.

The A620 had the flip screen which was extremely useful. Am I wrong in thinking this doesn't have one?

How do you find the image quality at the far ends?
 
I need a superzoom (preferably 800mm plus) for bird photography. An equivalent lens length for a dslr is too expensive and probably too bulky. I currently use a canon sx30 but want to manually focus (branches etc are a problem for auto focus).
I'd suggest looking into a mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras that has 'focus peaking' which helps assist manual focus
Most mirrorless cams would have too slow a view dye to the EVF or rear lcd
This is not true.
Yes it's true.
No. It's not true, and hasn't been true for many years.
thats your fake news
And, obviously focus peaking, and magnification makes manual focusing far more practical and versatile on mirrorless.
The lag in newer mirrorless is in the low milliseconds,
a couple of new mirrorless cams don't represent "most" mirrorless cams now do they?! Nope
and really not an issue for manual focusing.
of course it is since you'd be trying to trust a lens with LCD screen lag
. I've never used it myself, but I hear that it allows for quick manual focus.
A good focusing dslr will do better than manual focusing and quicker. If manual focusing was faster than auto , it would have not put manual focusing on the extreme back burner
I have both kinds of cameras, mirrorless has no disavantage in focusing compared to a DSLR. Focus peaking is fast. But I get my best focus using focus magnifier, which is only useful for something not actively moving about.
I need the ability to focus quickly - a ring is best I think? Does one exist?
With many of these cameras, just about any old lens will do, as long as you have an adapter that goes between the lens and the camera body.

--
http://therefractedlight.blogspot.com
 
Just had a look at the camera online. I have become a fan of the flip screen and would prefer to have this feature on my next camera.I'm immediately reminded of my A620 which has gone to a watery death. I would take it out in the surf in a water-housing but I hit the sand hard hard once too often and the housing opened. The end. The quality of the image from this little camera was excellent if there was plenty of light and I imagine this model would be of a similar shooting style.

The A620 had the flip screen which was extremely useful. Am I wrong in thinking this doesn't have one?

How do you find the image quality at the far ends?
The new SX730 does have a flip screen and the images are great at the far ends, obviously not the same as DSLRs with massive zooms but for everyday use and viewing on screens and printing at moderate sizes, the images are really good. I have a Fuji mirrorless system as well for serious landscapes which is my passion but for everyday use this camera rocks.
 

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