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Canon just made things tough...

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DeeDee G. said:
Plastic breaks. I had a Rebel and the corner broke off of it.
With being in college and all, I would stay away from it.
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I'm extremely careful with my equipment. When its not being gently used, its tucked away in a safe place.
DeeDee G. said:
I also worry about the D Rebel being even more mass produced than
the 10D.

I am also wondering if they come out with an 8mp 10D in the fall??
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6 MP is more than plenty for me.
DeeDee G. said:
There have been some lens calibration issues with the 10D. My
other question I have is are they going to put this camera on the
market and have even more issues with it?
Click to expand...
Very good question. I'm trusting in Canon to rectify whatever problem there might be (or just crossing my fingers that it doesnt happen to me).
 
Petteri Sulonen said:
...especially for the US. The 17-40/4L is about twice as expensive
in Europe, so the Tok 17 makes more sense on this side of the pond.
The Sigma 15-30 isn't much more expensive, but it's way bigger than
I want to carry for WA.
Click to expand...
Actually that Sigma is looking better all the time. I could save $600 on the body by buying a 300D, then spend $475 on the 15-30 and $400 on the 28-135 then call it quits for the (starter) lenses.

want vs need, want vs need, want vs need. Its easy to get carried away here. $875 for lenses still make me a little light headed, but I imagine in the long run its worth it.
 
Well, you sure got a lot of advise. Here are some thoughts:

Anyone who thinks the 10D is heavy should try carrying around an F5 all day.

You are going to need accessories. The best all around lens is going to be the 28-135mm IS USM, anything shorter like 15-30, 17-40 will leave you needing another lens. And you may still want a 75-300mm given your news work.

Don't forget about a flash $329 for the 550EX and don't forget about the memory cards. They fill up fast with a 6MP camera. 512M=$100 1Gb=$250.

Eventhough the 10D is IMO a far better camera for the long run, unless you can easily afford the camera and all required accessories, go with the Rebel and invest in good accessories so later all you will need to do is to change the bodies and not everything else too.
 
Jamie H. said:
Jamie H. said:
...especially for the US. The 17-40/4L is about twice as expensive
in Europe, so the Tok 17 makes more sense on this side of the pond.
The Sigma 15-30 isn't much more expensive, but it's way bigger than
I want to carry for WA.
Click to expand...
Actually that Sigma is looking better all the time. I could save
$600 on the body by buying a 300D, then spend $475 on the 15-30 and
$400 on the 28-135 then call it quits for the (starter) lenses.

want vs need, want vs need, want vs need. Its easy to get carried
away here. $875 for lenses still make me a little light headed,
but I imagine in the long run its worth it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it is. It's better to get something that's good enough. Otherwise you'll end up buying it twice. Of course, it's easy to overpay, too, but both those lenses are excellent value for money. I'd probably bite the bullet and go the extra mile, and get the Canon 17-40/4L, though. The Sigma has some inconveniences that I wouldn't want to live with, even though the optics are really good.

Petteri
--



Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]
 
Yeah, it is. It's better to get something that's good enough.
Petteri Sulonen said:
Otherwise you'll end up buying it twice. Of course, it's easy to
overpay, too, but both those lenses are excellent value for money.
I'd probably bite the bullet and go the extra mile, and get the
Canon 17-40/4L, though. The Sigma has some inconveniences that I
wouldn't want to live with, even though the optics are really good.
Click to expand...
Gah! That lens is $800. That is most definitely out of my price range. Whatever "inconveniences" the Sigma has I can most certainly live, especially it being $300 less and 3mm wider. I'm sure the Canon is a fine piece, but far too rich for my blood considering my budget.
 
Well Jamie from what I have read (and I was considering one of these myself), the inconviences include 1.36lb of weight and Rear Gelatin Filter Holders. The front is an 82mm coarse thread to hold the front lens cap. I believe people have found 82mm filters but they vignette a bit at 15mm and are quite expensive. A couple of filters and you made up the difference between the Sigma and the Canon.

Myself, I bought the Tokina 17-35 (Plastic Fantastic(tm)) and have been quite happy with it. It has some flare problems but so do most WA Zooms..

Do a search on 15-30 in this forum and check out the posts before you buy.

Mike
Jamie H. said:
Gah! That lens is $800. That is most definitely out of my price
range. Whatever "inconveniences" the Sigma has I can most
certainly live, especially it being $300 less and 3mm wider. I'm
sure the Canon is a fine piece, but far too rich for my blood
considering my budget.
Click to expand...
 
Jamie H. said:
I want the 300D for its lower price and wide angle lens.
Click to expand...
As far as the wide angle goes, the 300D still has the same 1.6 crop factor as the 10D so the 300D will not give you wider angle capability than the 10D.

The dedicated EF-S lens does have a new build that allows it to be smaller and lighter than regual EF glass.

So optically the two cameras are the same as far as field of view is concerned.

From the Canon EF-S lens site:

A standard zoom exclusively for the EOS Digital Rebel SLR camera with APS-C size image circle equivalent to an approx. 28-90mm focal length.

http://www.usa.canon.com/eflenses/lenses/ef_s18-55_35/ef_s18-55_35.html

--
Bill in SOCAL
'Stuff' Listed in profile
 
If you treat your equipment with a reasonable amount of respect, don't regularly do 5-9 shot bursts, and prefer a lighter (size and price) package, go with the 300D. Then take the several hundred dollars you save and put it into some good glass!

The difference in build quality (plastic 300D shell) is a non-issue for me. Plastic has been around for a few decades now and it a proven material. And being the owner of an all plastic Rebel X going on 7 years of regular use and abuse, I have plenty of confidence in how Canon applies it to their construction of SLR bodies.

As for the autofocus options, 90% of my shots are in One Shot (focus lock), which is basically what AI Focus is, at least until your subject gets up and starts moving. In which case, AI Focus switches to AI Servo (focus tracking).

Also, if you don't like that the 300D looks a little cheap and amateurish, I would strongly consider using some of the savings and buying the BG-E1 vertical grip/battery pack for the 300D. That combo looks pretty darn good! It'll make the 300D look better, double your battery like, and make it more comfortable to hold.
Jamie H. said:
I'll be buying a DSLR near the end of next month. Up until a few
days ago I was all but set on the 300D, but I recieved a very
generous cash birthday present and now I will be able to afford a
10D.

I'm in college and I shoot pictures for the newspaper. I currently
own a DSC-F707 and I'm constantly reaching the outer limits of this
camera's performance, wishing I had more. Areas in which I'm
seeking improvement (from greatest to least importance) are:
better high ISO performance, higher ISOs, faster autofocus, better
color accuracy (I HATE the 707's reds), greater burst capabilities
(larger buffer), quicker image writes (to card), and NOT having to
use Sony's memory stick (too pricey, limited in capacity).

Right now I'm having a very hard time in decided whether I'm going
to buy a 300D or a 10D. Here are positives and negatives for each
camera as they relate to my personal needs.

300D - Positives
  • $600 cheaper
  • smaller
  • lighter
  • 18-55mm EFS lens
300D - Negatives
  • smaller image buffer
  • lower build quality
  • limited AF options
10D - Positives
  • Better build quality
  • More attractive looking body
  • Larger buffer
  • Selectable AF options (in creative mode)
10D - Negatives
  • more expensive
  • no cheap, quality wide angle zoom
Its my personal belief that its better to spend a little more and
get something you really want than to save a few bucks and yearn
for more a ways down the road. The major sticking point with the
10D is that I cant really afford a quality wide angle zoom for it.
The 18-55 with the 300D looks great (optical quality of a 28-135!).
My 707 with an effective 38mm wide angle is quite weak in that
regard.

With either camera I would get both a 28-135 IS and a 50mm 1.8
prime. These are the lenses I believe I would get the most use out
of without breaking the bank. If I got the 300D, I would get it
with the bundled 18-55. For only $100 I feel that its well worth
the money and would give me the wide angle I've always wanted.

In short, I want the 10D for its more attractive, higher quality
body, larger image buffer, and selectable AF modes. I want the
300D for its lower price and wide angle lens.

I just want to hear some opinions/arguments for each side of the
story. Help me out here? :-D
Click to expand...
 
DeeDee G. said:
Plastic breaks. I had a Rebel and the corner broke off of it.
With being in college and all, I would stay away from it.

I also worry about the D Rebel being even more mass produced than
the 10D.
Click to expand...
Almost all of Canon's SLR's since the AE-1 have been plastic. AFAICR, exceptions are the "new F-1," the EOS-1 series, and the EOS-10D.

The A-series cameras are just about the most durable SLR's ever made. No SLR has been manufactured in greater numbers than the AE-1. And I don't hear EOS-3 owners complaining about their "plastic" camera much either.

The fact is that plastic is at least as good a material for camera bodies as alloy. Maybe even better, as it absorbs shock damage better.

Of course, there are flimsy plastic bodies just like there are flimsy metal bodies. But even without seeing it, I'm fairly confident that the Rebel-D will be robust enough for normal everyday use. Of course, it isn't built to take PJ abuse, but that kind of build costs money, and always has.
DeeDee G. said:
I am also wondering if they come out with an 8mp 10D in the fall??
Click to expand...
This autumn? Unlikely. They might upgrade the 1D and come up with a model between it and the 10D, though.
DeeDee G. said:
There have been some lens calibration issues with the 10D. My
other question I have is are they going to put this camera on the
market and have even more issues with it?
Click to expand...
That's another issue altogether. They may, they may not. In any case, as you pointed out, the 10D is certainly not proof against miscalibrations.

[snip]

Petteri
--



Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]
 
Petteri Sulonen said:
And I don't hear EOS-3 owners complaining about their
"plastic" camera much either.
Click to expand...
Erm, that's because the EOS-3 is metal!

But I do agree with your point. Plastic is fine as a camera body material. In a film camera the really important difference between plastic and metal is how accurate the film rails are, but for digital this argument doesn't exist.

As a character in the film The Graduate said, "I just want to say one word to you -- just one word -- 'plastics.'" Only now that's no longer a joke!
 
Peter Phan said:
Also, if you don't like that the 300D looks a little cheap and
amateurish, I would strongly consider using some of the savings and
buying the BG-E1 vertical grip/battery pack for the 300D. That
combo looks pretty darn good! It'll make the 300D look better,
double your battery like, and make it more comfortable to hold.
Click to expand...
Thats definitely a great accessory, but ultimately something that will have to wait for a while down the road. I'm leaning more towards the 300D all the time now.
 
Jon > Erm, that's because the EOS-3 is metal!

I've not seen a Metal EOS 3 !!!

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->

http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/

 
Well almost never. Even then you can probably sell it. The money you spend on the 300D glass will be a bad investment. Get the 10D. Live with one lens for awhile. Work your way up. Then a year or so from now sell the 10D for the 'Canon Whatever'. You won't need more or other glass. Canon has me locked in with all aspects of photography except 4x5 and MF. I don't mind as long as they keep hitting home runs. Take a second job for just long enough to buy whatever equipment you want. Serriously. You will feel like you really deserve it. What's a few weeks of free time compared to the best Canon equipment in your bag?

--
http://www.pbase.com/sfleming

Too many cameras ... not nearly enough photography.
 
Jon Stern said:
Adam-T said:
Jon > Erm, that's because the EOS-3 is metal!

I've not seen a Metal EOS 3 !!!
Click to expand...
Erm, whoops! I thought it was epoxy paint coated metal! And I've
got one! :-$

That shows how good plastic is these days. Anyway, the film rails
in the EOS-3 are metal even if the skin isn't.
Click to expand...
I had a similar "what the hey?" moment when I first got a scuff on my AE-1. :-)

Petteri
--



Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]
 
.... not the lens on the camera. If the choice is between cheap adequate body and better lenses vs. cheap adequate lenses and better body, go for the former. The body will be gone in a year or 2 or 3 anyway. Good glass gives lasting pleasure, mediocre glass gives lasting irritation regardless of body quality.

If you can live with the 300D body for a year or two, do that and put your savings into a better lens.
--
Slane
 
But make sure it's not sigma lenses that you buy, or you'll end up like me with glass that isn't compatible with newer eos cameras.

If you stay with Canon then things are alot simpler in for the future.
Slane Masda said:
.... not the lens on the camera. If the choice is between cheap
adequate body and better lenses vs. cheap adequate lenses and
better body, go for the former. The body will be gone in a year or
2 or 3 anyway. Good glass gives lasting pleasure, mediocre glass
gives lasting irritation regardless of body quality.

If you can live with the 300D body for a year or two, do that and
put your savings into a better lens.
--
Slane
Click to expand...
 
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