6D is very old. The relative new 5D IV and 1Dx II do have face detection, but only reliable in LiveView mode thru dual-pixel AF on back LCD.
How do you know or define that? It does the face recognition as a part of the tracking system in phase detect, so...not sure how you would even measure it's reliability in relation to face recognition.
So your supposition is that if it isn't the best on the market, it is unreliable, which is something where I think we disagree. Also you will note that they still have no way to separate out the face recognition aspect of the tracking feature and it is therefore not something that can be measured or tested as an independent feature, which was my point.
Eye tracking from Sony being a VERY different type of implementation I don't particularly see it as a relevant comparison. That would be more comparable to DPAF + tracking. I do own a 5Dmk4 btw, and have for over 6 months. DPAF is fun but it is not anywhere near as fast as phase detection with the dedicated AF sensor. I have seen you posting quite a lot about this today, btw, and have no desire to get into an "internet argument" with you on it...by which I mean pointlessness. I suspect we just disagree on some things here.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv/8
According to DPR review. I have read 5D IV DPR reviews several times as I plan to buy it so I need to know it well in advance.
Unfortunately, as we've found with Canon's other iTR implementations, it simply isn't as accurate as we've found some of its competitors' systems, such as Sony's Eye AF, and Nikon's 3D Tracking, which will effectively track an eye if you initiate autofocus on it. Note, in the below video, the system isn't fooled by any other distracting elements (or other distant faces) in the scene, but the points float around Sam's face, sometimes focusing on his eye, and sometimes other parts of his face resulting in some slight mis-focus.
Face detection and tracking in Live View, though, is a different story, as you can see on our Video page. Importantly, face detection in Live View stills shooting focuses accurately on the plane of the face, meaning the eyes are more likely to be in critical focus than previous Canon cameras (and you can always stop down a bit). Some of those older implementations would achieve focus on the front-most portion of a face they detected, which was usually the tip of the nose, rendering the eyes almost consistently out of focus.
Of course it's far more obvious in LiveView, so it's easier to know the how effective it is.
Of course as entire sensor knows better with help of DPAF, no surprise.
What I meant is that it is trivial to measure the difference between face recognition and having it turned off, which is not at all what your response seems to indicate here. In live view you can simply test it with the feature on vs off, that isn't not something that you can do with the phase detection via dedicated AF module.
The forthcoming 6DII should have similar implementation. Hope Canon should also develop and further improve not only face detection but option of eye-AF that could be important when you use fast-aperture lenses with very shallow DOF.
Yeah, I don't get that...I mean I shoot very shallow DOF lenses and don't have an issue at all. I suppose it's more of a philosophical point though, I don't love letting my camera "make decisions" for me, but do you mean that for video you think it'd be better? Or tracking something moving fast at f1.2 or something? Just wondering.
According to above DPR review.
face detection in Live View stills shooting focuses accurately on the plane of the face, meaning the eyes are more likely to be in critical focus than previous Canon cameras
But this is not equal to eye-AF especially with 85mm f1.4 or 135mm f2.0 at widest open. I mean it's only helpful if Canon further improve in this feature and have an option of eye-AF. As whether is important to individuals and if you actually need to use is subjective. And this is only for relative static photos, it could also help in video face and eye AF tracking.
Ok, I think you'd have to torture me for days to get me to shoot stills via live view. Unless I'm on a tripod I simply find it super awkward and horrible to do so. This is in part why I never liked point and shoot cameras and hate to use cell phone cameras. This is simply a non-starter for me, personally. I would add that I don't seem to have a problem with getting the eyes in focus via the viewfinder and dedicated AF module. I simply don't need the camera to try and make that decision for me.
Again, as I've posted before, video is an entirely different story. Since you simply CAN'T use the dedicated AF module to even attempt to track in video, it's a great feature there for many situations (though not so much when making a film, to be honest, where I'd be pulling focus anyway).
I higher res metering sensor would obviously improve reliability of the un-measurable face recognition system for phase detection AF...
Sure but still not directly on sensor itself as LV does and more prone to front or back focus.
Yes, that is the nature of the phase detection system that we've all been using for 30 years or so. Again, this isn't a huge issue, and the AF is MUCH faster via the viewfinder than DPAF. DPAF is MUCH nicer than the old contrast AF system, but still isn't even close to as fast to focus as the dedicated AF module.
but the 6D wasn't where we saw ground-breaking features...but who knows? For DPAF stuff it's all software and free cycles, probably something like eye-recognition could creep into a firmware hack like magic lantern or something.
That's what I hope for. And it could be a surprise that 6D II has EVF as some demanded that will be a true mirrorless and full-time LV. Personally I will not buy 6D II as 5DIV and future 5D series is my choice for action and wildlife type photos and I prefer OVF in these areas no mention other advanced features that 5D-series is always better than 6D-series.
I could see Canon doing a 35mm sensor mirrorless camera, certainly the m5 and DPAF are good steps towards that end. I doubt that I'd buy such a camera, but there are obviously people for whom that would be of big interest.
