FZ80 debacle continues

Maine Yankee · Apr 12, 2017

Still no resolution on this bug, while others surface. Here is a cheesy iPhone video I sent to Panasonic. They informed me I was in iA nightmode, not SCN mode, obfuscating the issue - this despite me telling them it was SCN mode with the Artistic Nightscape setting.

Probably will initiate a return now, before the return period elapses. My third and likely last Lumix - my others were superb. Not sure what happened to this company. Their tech support people don't even know photography, let alone Lumix- based photography.

The video shows me setting the camera in that mode and setting the number of seconds, several times, and it taking a less and a second image:

Am I missing something?

dholt · Apr 12, 2017

You set the shutter to 1/8 of a second, then 1/160 of a second (if I remember correctly), and finally to 1/2000 of a second. These are all way too short for a night time shot.

kohinoor · Apr 12, 2017

The vid shows you setting the cam to 1/8 of a second, then 1/125 of a sec and finally 1/2000 of a sec.

kkardster · Apr 12, 2017

Maine Yankee said:
Still no resolution on this bug, while others surface. Here is a cheesy iPhone video I sent to Panasonic. They informed me I was in iA nightmode, not SCN mode, obfuscating the issue - this despite me telling them it was SCN mode with the Artistic Nightscape setting.

I don't think that's an issue here, but either iA or iA+ can decide on their own shutter speed.

Maine Yankee said:
Probably will initiate a return now, before the return period elapses. My third and likely last Lumix - my others were superb. Not sure what happened to this company. Their tech support people don't even know photography, let alone Lumix- based photography.

The video shows me setting the camera in that mode and setting the number of seconds, several times, and it taking a less and a second image:

Am I missing something?

As noted, you're going the wrong way with the SS dial: right = faster. When you dial left to 1 second and longer shutter durations, the camera will add the second identifier " to the value indicated, denoting that the number is in seconds, not in 1/seconds as shown for faster shutter speeds. Your other Lumix cameras should do the same, so I'm surprised you weren't aware of this.

If you check the manual you'd find that when using Shutter-Priority mode the FZ80 has a limited maximum shutter duration of 4 seconds (when using the mechanical shutter) or 1 second (when using the electronic shutter). However, in Artistic Nightscape scene mode, you should be able to reach 60 seconds - if the flash, iA, and iA+ are all disabled. You may need to ensure that the mechanical shutter is enabled, but for that I am unsure. Maybe someone else with the camera can try this as well and help you get it right.

I hope this helps sort out Panasonic's "debacle" for you, as it appears that the camera is working exactly as documented. Too bad someone steered you wrong on the camera model selection - but you can't really blame the camera for that. To denigrate the camera in two separate threads - partly due to improper use - isn't really fair to it.

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter

sherman_levine · Apr 12, 2017

It's what I suspected in my response from the other thread. You have the time set to fractional seconds. Go from 8 to 4 to...1 and beyond that you'll see the full seconds with larger numbers on the left and smaller on the right

--

Sherm
Sherms flickr page

Sranang Boi · Apr 12, 2017

Maine Yankee said:
My third and likely last Lumix - my others were superb. Not sure what happened to this company.

I would be inclined to agree with you. Cameras are getting smarter and more complicated. It might be better for you to just use a smartphone, which requires next to no knowledge about photography.

Maine Yankee · Apr 13, 2017

dholt said:
You set the shutter to 1/8 of a second, then 1/160 of a second (if I remember correctly), and finally to 1/2000 of a second. These are all way too short for a night time shot.

It appears I was mislead by sales - the best you can expect from this model is a not-so-whopping 4 seconds. Boo.

Maine Yankee · Apr 13, 2017

Yeah, sorry, mislead. Not really a viable night feature in this camera IMO.

Maine Yankee · Apr 13, 2017

kkardster said:
Maine Yankee said:

Still no resolution on this bug, while others surface. Here is a cheesy iPhone video I sent to Panasonic. They informed me I was in iA nightmode, not SCN mode, obfuscating the issue - this despite me telling them it was SCN mode with the Artistic Nightscape setting.

Click to expand...

I don't think that's an issue here, but either iA or iA+ can decide on their own shutter speed.

Yes, of course, up to 4 seconds! Not that much for a guy used to shooting 20 -60 minute exposures.

kkardster said:
kkardster said:

Probably will initiate a return now, before the return period elapses. My third and likely last Lumix - my others were superb. Not sure what happened to this company. Their tech support people don't even know photography, let alone Lumix- based photography.

The video shows me setting the camera in that mode and setting the number of seconds, several times, and it taking a less and a second image:

Am I missing something?

Click to expand...

As noted, you're going the wrong way with the SS dial: right = faster. When you dial left to 1 second and longer shutter durations, the camera will add the second identifier " to the value indicated, denoting that the number is in seconds, not in 1/seconds as shown for faster shutter speeds. Your other Lumix cameras should do the same, so I'm surprised you weren't aware of this.

I'll have to look - the disappointing thing is, the older camera did allow longer exposures, sadly not this model.

kkardster said:
If you check the manual you'd find that when using Shutter-Priority mode the FZ80 has a limited maximum shutter duration of 4 seconds (when using the mechanical shutter) or 1 second (when using the electronic shutter). However, in Artistic Nightscape scene mode, you should be able to reach 60 seconds - if the flash, iA, and iA+ are all disabled. You may need to ensure that the mechanical shutter is enabled, but for that I am unsure. Maybe someone else with the camera can try this as well and help you get it right.

That's the issue. After long talks today with Panasonic they are claiming a real max of...gasp...4 seconds. I'd be happy with 30-60, that would be great.

Maine Yankee · Apr 13, 2017

sherman_levine said:
It's what I suspected in my response from the other thread. You have the time set to fractional seconds. Go from 8 to 4 to...1 and beyond that you'll see the full seconds with larger numbers on the left and smaller on the right

Yes, clear now. 1-4 seconds simply isn't sufficient - although some surprising night summation technology that works well, even for handheld.

Maine Yankee · Apr 13, 2017

Mr. Boi:

Sranang Boi said:
Maine Yankee said:

My third and likely last Lumix - my others were superb. Not sure what happened to this company.

Click to expand...

I would be inclined to agree with you. Cameras are getting smarter and more complicated. It might be better for you to just use a smartphone, which requires next to no knowledge about photography.

I'd think it would be even smarter for someone joining a forum to abide by it's rules and ethos, or if that's too difficult, perhaps abide by some simple human kindness.

"Be civil. Anyone being rude, abusive, calling names or generally trying to stir up trouble will not be tolerated. If you think someone is wrong it may be because they are new. Don't jump on them, think first."

Ah, thinking first. Perhaps we can all learn.

Fortunately, for you, they even provide definitions for the ethically challenged:

"Flaming: Insulting, abusive, malicious, personal attacks."

"Trolling: Deliberately antagonizing other forum users by posting 'flame bait.'"

I hope that helps in your future communications. Best wishes.

sherman_levine · Apr 13, 2017

Maine Yankee said:
sherman_levine said:

It's what I suspected in my response from the other thread. You have the time set to fractional seconds. Go from 8 to 4 to...1 and beyond that you'll see the full seconds with larger numbers on the left and smaller on the right

Click to expand...

Yes, clear now. 1-4 seconds simply isn't sufficient - although some surprising night summation technology that works well, even for handheld.

I don't think you have it quite correct yet.

You _can_ get to 60 seconds in Artistic Nightscape mode, even though in general you can't go longer than 4 seconds.

--

Sherm
Sherms flickr page

ANAYV · Apr 13, 2017

Maine Yankee said:
kkardster said:

Maine Yankee said:

Still no resolution on this bug, while others surface. Here is a cheesy iPhone video I sent to Panasonic. They informed me I was in iA nightmode, not SCN mode, obfuscating the issue - this despite me telling them it was SCN mode with the Artistic Nightscape setting.

Click to expand...

I don't think that's an issue here, but either iA or iA+ can decide on their own shutter speed.

Click to expand...

Yes, of course, up to 4 seconds! Not that much for a guy used to shooting 20 -60 minute exposures.

Maine Yankee said:

Maine Yankee said:

Probably will initiate a return now, before the return period elapses. My third and likely last Lumix - my others were superb. Not sure what happened to this company. Their tech support people don't even know photography, let alone Lumix- based photography.

The video shows me setting the camera in that mode and setting the number of seconds, several times, and it taking a less and a second image:

Am I missing something?

Click to expand...

As noted, you're going the wrong way with the SS dial: right = faster. When you dial left to 1 second and longer shutter durations, the camera will add the second identifier " to the value indicated, denoting that the number is in seconds, not in 1/seconds as shown for faster shutter speeds. Your other Lumix cameras should do the same, so I'm surprised you weren't aware of this.

Click to expand...

I'll have to look - the disappointing thing is, the older camera did allow longer exposures, sadly not this model.

Maine Yankee said:

If you check the manual you'd find that when using Shutter-Priority mode the FZ80 has a limited maximum shutter duration of 4 seconds (when using the mechanical shutter) or 1 second (when using the electronic shutter). However, in Artistic Nightscape scene mode, you should be able to reach 60 seconds - if the flash, iA, and iA+ are all disabled. You may need to ensure that the mechanical shutter is enabled, but for that I am unsure. Maybe someone else with the camera can try this as well and help you get it right.

Click to expand...

That's the issue. After long talks today with Panasonic they are claiming a real max of...gasp...4 seconds. I'd be happy with 30-60, that would be great.

It does offer 60 seconds .. But you returned it already

ANAYV

Maine Yankee · Apr 13, 2017

sherman_levine said:
Maine Yankee said:

sherman_levine said:

It's what I suspected in my response from the other thread. You have the time set to fractional seconds. Go from 8 to 4 to...1 and beyond that you'll see the full seconds with larger numbers on the left and smaller on the right

Click to expand...

Yes, clear now. 1-4 seconds simply isn't sufficient - although some surprising night summation technology that works well, even for handheld.

Click to expand...

I don't think you have it quite correct yet.

You _can_ get to 60 seconds in Artistic Nightscape mode, even though in general you can't go longer than 4 seconds.

Sherm, if you are correct, it would be a money saver— as I am about to order the FZ1000 explicity for the 60 second option and the larger sensor.

After speaking to tech support over half a dozen times, there is no mention of such a feature or possibility. They tried to tell me, to go into the artistic night mode setting press the rear dial and turn it up to higher numbers, which puzzled me as much as the members here. Frankly, they merely help you read through the manual (!) and readily admit they are not familiar with the camera(s) and are not familiar with photography. Yesterday a long time instructor at Panasonic called and iterated the same,mbut with a 4 sec. max. Their recommendation is to use manual mode and go for 4 secs at full aperture.

If you could demonstrate a 60 second or less option, it would be a real changer for users with this new camera. As I indicated previously, an engineer at Panasonic admitted in an email to me, other people are complaining about the same issue, and that a future firmware updaye could (possibly) cahmge that. Yesterdays they backed down on this cali, leaving me shaking my head. We were told that the feature was available by sales representatives. This was a important option for me, as my purchase hinged on bracketing exposures for HDR, and the ability to do time exposures as long as I wanted ideally, but 60 seconds is sufficient for what I want to do. My Lumix FZ28 went 60 seconds manually, but suffered from poor lowlight performance. The FZ80 seems to be a very good low light performer from what I can tell, but I'd like to be able to see that performance include a longer than four second exposure. Ideally it would be perfect to have a manual setting. In general, milky way photography requires a 20-30 seconds exposure. As with the moon, once above 30 seconds you get rotational blur from the earth, unless you are using an equatorial mounted tripod.

Thanks for your feedback and assistance. If this claim is replicable, I should be able to do some milky way shots as the moon wanes in the next week.

TIA

Dan

Maine Yankee · Apr 13, 2017

ANAYV wrote:

ANAYV said:
It does offer 60 seconds .. But you returned it already

ANAYV

Please elaborate! You would know something no one at Panasonic does, including their engineer(s)!

Dan

sherman_levine · Apr 13, 2017

Maine Yankee said:
sherman_levine said:

Maine Yankee said:

sherman_levine said:

It's what I suspected in my response from the other thread. You have the time set to fractional seconds. Go from 8 to 4 to...1 and beyond that you'll see the full seconds with larger numbers on the left and smaller on the right

Click to expand...

Yes, clear now. 1-4 seconds simply isn't sufficient - although some surprising night summation technology that works well, even for handheld.

Click to expand...

I don't think you have it quite correct yet.

You _can_ get to 60 seconds in Artistic Nightscape mode, even though in general you can't go longer than 4 seconds.

Click to expand...

Sherm, if you are correct, it would be a money saver— as I am about to order the FZ1000 explicity for the 60 second option and the larger sensor.

After speaking to tech support over half a dozen times, there is no mention of such a feature or possibility. They tried to tell me, to go into the artistic night mode setting press the rear dial and turn it up to higher numbers, which puzzled me as much as the members here. Frankly, they merely help you read through the manual (!) and readily admit they are not familiar with the camera(s) and are not familiar with photography. Yesterday a long time instructor at Panasonic called and iterated the same,mbut with a 4 sec. max. Their recommendation is to use manual mode and go for 4 secs at full aperture.

If you could demonstrate a 60 second or less option, it would be a real changer for users with this new camera. As I indicated previously, an engineer at Panasonic admitted in an email to me, other people are complaining about the same issue, and that a future firmware updaye could (possibly) cahmge that. Yesterdays they backed down on this cali, leaving me shaking my head. We were told that the feature was available by sales representatives. This was a important option for me, as my purchase hinged on bracketing exposures for HDR, and the ability to do time exposures as long as I wanted ideally, but 60 seconds is sufficient for what I want to do. My Lumix FZ28 went 60 seconds manually, but suffered from poor lowlight performance. The FZ80 seems to be a very good low light performer from what I can tell, but I'd like to be able to see that performance include a longer than four second exposure. Ideally it would be perfect to have a manual setting. In general, milky way photography requires a 20-30 seconds exposure. As with the moon, once above 30 seconds you get rotational blur from the earth, unless you are using an equatorial mounted tripod.

Thanks for your feedback and assistance. If this claim is replicable, I should be able to do some milky way shots as the moon wanes in the next week.

TIA

Dan

I ran 15sec as a test here, and time up to 60sec is certainly available. On the other hand, you have no real control of ISO or aperture, just exposure offset. I'd try some random sky shots to see if you're happy with the results. FZ1000 will give you full control of ISO and aperture. Also you can have "bulb" up to 2 minutes so you're not limited to specific shutter speeds.

--

Sherm
Sherms flickr page

kkardster · Apr 13, 2017

Maine Yankee said:
dholt said:

You set the shutter to 1/8 of a second, then 1/160 of a second (if I remember correctly), and finally to 1/2000 of a second. These are all way too short for a night time shot.

Click to expand...

It appears I was mislead by sales - the best you can expect from this model is a not-so-whopping 4 seconds. Boo.

To be fair, the camera is capable of 60 seconds using Artistic Nightscape scene mode. Yes, it's maddening when certain capabilities are only available in specific modes such as this. But then, the possibilities seem almost limitless:

Shutter Speeds:

4 to 1/2000 when using the mechanical shutter
1 to 1/16000 when using the electronic shutter
60 to 1/2000? when using Artistic Nightscape scene mode
1/60 to 1/2000 when using standard or red-eye flash
1 to 1/16000 when using slow-sync flash modes
4 to 1/16000 when flash is disabled
1/30 to 1/16000 for 4K photo/video
?? to ?? for HD video
?? to ?? for High-Speed video

And I'm sure there are more. For example, my FZ200 is able to shoot video with shutter speeds as slow as 1/8s - but one must be in full manual mode (including focus?!!!) to achieve that. I guess my point is that it's difficult to blame the messenger when there are so many messages that could be delivered.

For nighttime shooting, I'd recommend a camera with a true BULB mode. For Panasonic models, that's limited to 1" and larger-sensored models plus the FZ300. For 1" there's usually a limit of 120 seconds maximum shutter duration and for the FZ300 the limit is 60 seconds - essentially a limited BULB mode with a built-in timeout. The 1"and larger-sensored models also allow disabling the dark frame noise reduction, allowing shooting of star trails or more image captures without having to wait on the noise reduction capture after each shot. (Though you might want to shoot the occasional black frame to use for noise reduction during post-processing.)

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter

PC Wheeler · Apr 13, 2017

IMO the Panasonic iA/iA+ mode is a disaster. After considerable testing with FZ1000 and ZS100 (and earlier models) I will not use it.

Try P, A and S modes. You'll have better luck, I suspect.

--
Phil

kkardster · Apr 13, 2017

PC Wheeler said:
IMO the Panasonic iA/iA+ mode is a disaster. After considerable testing with FZ1000 and ZS100 (and earlier models) I will not use it.

Try P, A and S modes. You'll have better luck, I suspect.

Agreed. Once in a blue moon when in tricky lighting or during a fleeting moment where I don't have time to get it right, I'll fire off a couple "just in case" shots using iA mode before fiddling with the settings and possibly missing the shot.

Maine Yankee · Apr 13, 2017

sherman_levine said:
I ran 15sec as a test here, and time up to 60sec is certainly available. On the other hand, you have no real control of ISO or aperture, just exposure offset. I'd try some random sky shots to see if you're happy with the results. FZ1000 will give you full control of ISO and aperture. Also you can have "bulb" up to 2 minutes so you're not limited to specific shutter speeds.

Thanks again. how on earth did you set the shutter speed to 15 seconds? Would you please share you sequence of operation? I honestly have seen no option for that long of an exposure, and nor have the people at Panasonic <sigh>.

Dan

FZ80 debacle continues

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