Weathermen and electronic devices

Joseph V. Morris

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Didn't take long for the idea to get floated, run up the flagpole, whatever. . . . See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/26/laptop-ban-minister-refuses-rule-extending-worldwide/ . Just a matter of when it can be sold.

You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows.

So, for all of you who have been somewhat dismissive of the possibility that cameras and computers and other electronic gadgets may all end up banned from carry-on, any where in the world and on any airline and at any time -- maybe it's time to reconsider your position.

The current implementation of the ban does little to make anyone, on the ground or in the air, safer. It's really little more than more security theater.
 
Deal with it, we're in a war whether some of you realize or not, there will be some inconveniences to your normal life.
 
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Didn't take long for the idea to get floated, run up the flagpole, whatever. . . . See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/26/laptop-ban-minister-refuses-rule-extending-worldwide/ . Just a matter of when it can be sold.

So, for all of you who have been somewhat dismissive of the possibility that cameras and computers and other electronic gadgets may all end up banned from carry-on, any where in the world and on any airline and at any time -- maybe it's time to reconsider your position.
I would not be surprised if electronics were eventually banned from all flights. It's the only logical thing to do if bombs can be embedded in devices easily. However, I wonder if there won't be some easing of size restrictions, maybe restricting devices with batteries above a certain size.

I also assume that over time some companies will develop better workarounds to secure, insure, ship and rent electronic devices for travelers.

 
... I also assume that over time some companies will develop better workarounds to secure, insure, ship and rent electronic devices for travelers.
And I assume that over time this 'theater of the absurd' will come to an end.
Let's hope so.

As someone who prefers flying Turkish Airlines and who flew back to the US through Istanbul with a bunch of electronic gear -- laptop, cameras, iPad, etc. -- shortly before the ban was announced, I have been watching these events closely. Fortunately, I got back to the US in time, but I have been asking myself a lot of "what if" questions. What would my options have been if I had been abroad when this ruling came down? I could have bought a one way ticket on another airline on short notice, most likely for lots of $$$; I could have checked all my electronics in my soft-sided backpack with no way to insure it easily; or, I could have shipped my gear home via DHL or FedEx, another expensive alternative.

As I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if the ban gets expanded to other airports. I would assume that some imaginative company or companies would come up with a reasonable way for people to transport their electronics in such a situation.
 
Deal with it, we're in a war whether some of you realize or not, there will be some inconveniences to your normal life.
However, there is no need for inconveniences that provide no benefit other than security theater.

.

Consider a ban on carrying liquids onto an airplane. The advertised goal is to prevent someone from bringing two liquid components onto a plane, and mixing them together inflight to create a bomb.

The protections we have in place provide the appearance of preventing this, without actually preventing this.

If someone is willing to blow up a plane, it is likely they are willing to kidnap an infant. If they bring the infant onto the plane, they can bring on whatever liquids they want, as long as the container is labeled to suggest that it is baby formula.

A female suicide bomber has the option of adjustable breast implants. Fill each with a prohibited chemical instead of saline. The lavatory can be used as a location to drain the implants and mix the chemicals.

.

Many of the TSA protocols are "security theater" rather than actual security. They provide an inconvenience to those who would do harm, but they do not prevent the harm. However, they provide a tremendous inconvenience and cost to honest travelers and the nation as a whole.

In 2010, there were about 632 million air passengers in the USA. If the average wage is $25/hour (rich people fly more often than poor people), and each passenger wastes in hour due to "security theater", that's an economic cost of almost $16 billion per year. That's not counting the additional cost on the back end of people who used to be able to carry on everything they needed, who now need to wait for checked luggage. Nor does is count the production costs of putting on the elaborate Security Theater show.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we shouldn't have security. I'm merely suggesting that the current policies contain many expensive and disruptive elements that are far more theater than they are security.

.

Of course, flying today is safer than it was prior to 9/11. This is due to two highly effective, and inexpensive improvements that have been put in place.

First of all, they have reinforced the cockpit doors. This is a good thing.

However, the biggest improvement is security is a change in attitude amongst the flying public. Prior to 9/11, the average passenger felt that the best and safest course of action was to cooperate if the plane was being hijacked. If a flight attendant was held hostage, everyone would stay seated and not intervene for fear that the flight attendant would be harmed.

That attitude has changed. Today if a hijacker sneaks a ceramic knife onboard and takes a flight attendant hostage, I would expect a large number of people to rise up and attack the bad guy. Frankly, I think the flying public would be a lot safer if those passengers were allowed to have pocket knives.
 
I think we should all carry stun guns.
 
I think we should all carry stun guns.
An interesting suggestion. However I don't feel like spending the money on a stun gun just so I can travel.

On the other hand I already own a very useful pocket knife. There are times when I could travel without checking bags, but I am not allowed to carry the pocket knife on board.

Yes, I could get by without the pocket knife, and there are ways of working around this. However I am old enough to remember when I could carry a pocket knife on board, and I remember how simple and convenient flying used to be.

.

A few years ago I was traveling with my young son. He had a broken foot, and was wearing a "walking cast". The cast had some metal "shiv-like" supports and set off the metal detector. TSA made my son take off the cast, limp through the metal detector and then gave him back the un-inspected walking cast. At no time did they examine the walking cast, pass it through the x-ray machine, or make any attempt to determine why it had set off the metal detector, and whether or not it was hiding a weapon.

It really is "Security Theater". Very little of the time wasting is actual security.
 
... I also assume that over time some companies will develop better workarounds to secure, insure, ship and rent electronic devices for travelers.
And I assume that over time this 'theater of the absurd' will come to an end.
Let's hope so.

As someone who prefers flying Turkish Airlines and who flew back to the US through Istanbul with a bunch of electronic gear -- laptop, cameras, iPad, etc. -- shortly before the ban was announced, I have been watching these events closely. Fortunately, I got back to the US in time, but I have been asking myself a lot of "what if" questions. What would my options have been if I had been abroad when this ruling came down? I could have bought a one way ticket on another airline on short notice, most likely for lots of $$$;
Emirate and Turkish Airline offer a solution, such that all banned devices be packed inside boxes, be handed over to staff for safekeeping before boarding and would be returned after landed. A peace of mind of our valuables would not be handled by the general ordinary cargo handlers...
I could have checked all my electronics in my soft-sided backpack with no way to insure it easily; or, I could have shipped my gear home via DHL or FedEx, another expensive alternative.
According to a member on another forum, to ship a lens from Riyadh Airport to US costed him US$260 (IIRC?) by FedEx...
As I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if the ban gets expanded to other airports. I would assume that some imaginative company or companies would come up with a reasonable way for people to transport their electronics in such a situation.
--
Albert
 
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Refresh my memory. Doesn't a stun gun count as "an electronic device larger than a typical smartphone"?
 
Emirate and Turkish Airline offer a solution, such that all banned devices be packed inside boxes, be handed over to staff for safekeeping before boarding and would be returned after landed. A peace of mind of our valuables would not be handled by the general ordinary cargo handlers...
I applaud Emirates and Turkish for trying to find workarounds. Honestly, I don't need to carry my camera gear in the cabin; I just need to make sure that my gear arrives safely and in one piece.
I could have checked all my electronics in my soft-sided backpack with no way to insure it easily; or, I could have shipped my gear home via DHL or FedEx, another expensive alternative.
According to a member on another forum, to ship a lens from Riyadh Airport to US costed him US$260 (IIRC?) by FedEx...
Oh yes. I read that. As I said, if the ruling had come down while I was overseas, I would have been seriously up a creek. I had a laptop, a 12" iPad, 2 camera bodies, five or six lenses, and an external flash. It would have cost me a small fortune to ship everything.

It's the suddenness and the arbitrariness of the ruling that gets under my skin.
 
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Emirate and Turkish Airline offer a solution, such that all banned devices be packed inside boxes, be handed over to staff for safekeeping before boarding and would be returned after landed. A peace of mind of our valuables would not be handled by the general ordinary cargo handlers...
. . .
Just out of curiosity, don't the airlines already have provisions for transporting firearms and ammunition in checked baggage (after declaration and inspection, I presume). Does anyone know the details of just how this policy is implemented by various airlines? Couldn't it be extended to incorporate expensive electronic devices, particularly cameras? Instead of guns and ammo, we'd be talking about cameras and batteries. (And I'd still like to know where camera lenses fall under this ban, never mind memory cards.)

On the flip side, I seem to recall an incident in Europe (perhaps Brussels) where an assailant followed all the procedures, then assembled and loaded the weapon after retrieving it from baggage claim and proceeded to create havoc throughout the arrivals hall.

Of course, all of this overlooks the needs of business travelers onboard whose interests extend a bit further than playing the latest games, listening to music, or reading an ebook. (Forgot about them, didn't we?)
 
Emirate and Turkish Airline offer a solution, such that all banned devices be packed inside boxes, be handed over to staff for safekeeping before boarding and would be returned after landed. A peace of mind of our valuables would not be handled by the general ordinary cargo handlers...

. . .
Just out of curiosity, don't the airlines already have provisions for transporting firearms and ammunition in checked baggage (after declaration and inspection, I presume). Does anyone know the details of just how this policy is implemented by various airlines? Couldn't it be extended to incorporate expensive electronic devices, particularly cameras? Instead of guns and ammo, we'd be talking about cameras and batteries. (And I'd still like to know where camera lenses fall under this ban, never mind memory cards.)
I assume that modern lenses, which contain electronics, are banned, but I have not been able to find out a definitive answer.
On the flip side, I seem to recall an incident in Europe (perhaps Brussels) where an assailant followed all the procedures, then assembled and loaded the weapon after retrieving it from baggage claim and proceeded to create havoc throughout the arrivals hall.
I thought that was in Ft. Lauderdale, which really makes me wonder why they are singling out just a handful of airports.
Of course, all of this overlooks the needs of business travelers onboard whose interests extend a bit further than playing the latest games, listening to music, or reading an ebook. (Forgot about them, didn't we?)
I can't help but think that they will ease some of restrictions, perhaps banning larger laptops but not the smaller ones.
 
On the flip side, I seem to recall an incident in Europe (perhaps Brussels) where an assailant followed all the procedures, then assembled and loaded the weapon after retrieving it from baggage claim and proceeded to create havoc throughout the arrivals hall.

...
An incident fitting this description happen Jan 6, 2017, in the Ft. Lauderdale, Florida USA Airport.

I was inflight at the time, having recently taken off from Miami International Airport. We had Wi-Fi on our flight, and the other passengers and I were following this closely via various news sites.

.

Of course, the whole world is not a security zone, and baggage claim is typically outside the security zone. Preventing guns in checked baggage would not have prevented this type of crime. A local could have easily driven to the airport and committed a similar crime.

.

Think about this for the moment. Let's assume that all current TSA security theater was in place on 9/11 (except for the reinforced cockpit doors). It is unlikely that 9/11 would have been prevented. on 9/11 the hijackers used box cutters. They could just have easily help a dinner knife or fork up to the neck of a hostage.

The security issue on 9/11 was access to the cockpit, and the cooperation of the passengers. It had very little to do with the theater of physical screening at the airport.
 
I applaud Emirates and Turkish for trying to find workarounds. Honestly, I don't need to carry my camera gear in the cabin; I just need to make sure that my gear arrives safely and in one piece.
Just one problem here -- the value of the information stored on the electronic device (including cameras) is likely to far exceed the replacement value of the equipment. It's hard to value, never mind insure. And it's not just the fear of "losing" the data, it's the fear of having it "stolen" and then used for criminal profit, blackmail, extortion. Industrial espionage is alive and well and is much more attractive than the rather paltry return on stealing and pawning the equipment itself. In their infinite wisdom, device manufacturers have increasingly gone to non-removable mass storage to further exacerbate the problem.
I could have checked all my electronics in my soft-sided backpack with no way to insure it easily; or, I could have shipped my gear home via DHL or FedEx, another expensive alternative.
According to a member on another forum, to ship a lens from Riyadh Airport to US costed him US$260 (IIRC?) by FedEx...
And again, whether stored in the hold of your aircraft or shipped via DHL, FedEx, etc., the device must still be inspectable prior to transport. So quit thinking about locked containers as solving your problem.
Oh yes. I read that. As I said, if the ruling had come down while I was overseas, I would have been seriously up a creek. I had a laptop, a 12" iPad, 2 camera bodies, five or six lenses, and an external flash. It would have cost me a small fortune to ship everything.
That would be similar to my situation and I've spent a good deal of money over the years to acquire travel gear for carry-on that satisfies weight and size constraints while being relatively secure and anonymous. Kiss that goodby. I suspect this is also going to have a major impact on tourism for many. Why go if you can't take photos or videos to enjoy later? True, not everyone will see it that way, but a lot will. But who gives a fig about the impact on the travel and tourism business? (I leave that as an exercise for the reader.)

I think the terrorists have just won -- again. And they don't actually have to do anything; our fears do all that is required.
It's the suddenness and the arbitrariness of the ruling that gets under my skin.
Yeah, there's that, too.
 
On the flip side, I seem to recall an incident in Europe (perhaps Brussels) where an assailant followed all the procedures, then assembled and loaded the weapon after retrieving it from baggage claim and proceeded to create havoc throughout the arrivals hall.
I thought that was in Ft. Lauderdale, which really makes me wonder why they are singling out just a handful of airports.
I think you're right; after a while, it all just blurs together. :-(
Of course, all of this overlooks the needs of business travelers onboard whose interests extend a bit further than playing the latest games, listening to music, or reading an ebook. (Forgot about them, didn't we?)
I can't help but think that they will ease some of restrictions, perhaps banning larger laptops but not the smaller ones.
You mean netbooks? Well, I must admit I have done post-processing on a Nexus 7 in extremis, Still, my 15" laptop with an IPS screen, GPU and i7, and numeric keypad are far superior when away from home for an extended period. I'm not even sure my ruggedized LaCie 1 TB satisfies the current size restrictions. And I'm still mystified about the power bricks I use for video and time lapse work.

And, oh, how could I forget? What about all those airlines that have been busily removing the built-in view screens since we're now all carrying tablets that can be used to view videos in flight? There's another good idea gone west. Just a matter of a minor refit of the equipment they've been removing.
 
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In an article today on the BBC website, IATA chief executive Alexandre de Juniac said:

"Why don't the US and the UK have a common list of airports? How can laptops be secure in the cabin on some flights and not others... especially on flights originating at a common airport?"

He added: "The current measures are not an acceptable long-term solution to whatever threat they are trying to mitigate. Even in the short term it is difficult to understand their effectiveness. And the commercial distortions they create are severe."


In a nutshell, this is why some of us characterize the announced measures as "security theater" (at best).
 

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