6D Upgrade to 5D Family

You all have been extremely helpful and insightful in the past so I figured I would jump back in here to get some more info and help.

i currently shoot with a 6D, love it to death, but it's time for me to right some wrongs it has and upgrade into the 5D family. My issue is there are a little too many options and they all sound good.

my two needs in this upgrade are to break past the 6Ds limit of 1/4000 as the fastest shutter speed and since I am a bad manual focus shooter that 41/61 grid is a must.

My wants are vastly superior image quality. I shoot everything from racing to modeling and I plan on printing a lot going forward and I already do quite a bit.

i shoot 95% with prime lenses and I have worked to get some top quality ones for what my money can buy.

My considerations are:

5DMIII which leaves me with plenty leftover to add yet another prime to my kit

5DS

5DMIV

I am leaning on the 5DS simply because the Refurb price is attractive and its MP count is top in the Canon family. I am a single shot shooter even in racing so the FPS doesn't matter to me. I don't shoot video. The HIgh ISO quality is to my liking. I don't need a crazy autofocus as long as it's better than my current 6D.

that being said, the leap from the 6D to the 5DMIII is attractive because the used market is fairly cheap on them so in the same budget I could leap to some primes I have had on my list for awhile.

thoughts?

for an all around shooting with high rez. camera, i think your thoughts are in the right place with 5Ds. 5D4's latest features aside, but it still has a high price and the rez. level is not as high as 5Ds, although the 30mp of 5D4 is high enough to some people. as for me, my camera of choice is 5Ds/R right now! sorry i can't add any more input at this point.

1Dx4me said:

for an all around shooting with high rez. camera, i think your thoughts are in the right place with 5Ds. 5D4's latest features aside, but it still has a high price and the rez. level is not as high as 5Ds, although the 30mp of 5D4 is high enough to some people. as for me, my camera of choice is 5Ds/R right now! sorry i can't add any more input at this point.

Click to expand...

You shoot with the 5DSR? Do you find the lack of filter really adds more to your editing plate or is not as big of an issue as it's made out to be?

i avoided the 5DS when it first launched because everyone kept shouting that it was such a niche camera but now I am hearing more and more people use them as their active body. As long as you aren't afraid of its monstrous file sizes it seems to be a superb body.

5D IV was the easy option for me.

Personally, I wanted my next step from the 6D to have improvements across the board, which put me squarely in the path of the 5D IV.

A lot of my work is low light - an area the 6D is already excellent in. I wouldn't see real improvement in this area from a III/S/SR, which would have made them a somewhat pointless purchase.

Delighted with what the 5D IV offers over the 6D, and haven't looked back.

Crymsonglacius said:

1Dx4me said:

for an all around shooting with high rez. camera, i think your thoughts are in the right place with 5Ds. 5D4's latest features aside, but it still has a high price and the rez. level is not as high as 5Ds, although the 30mp of 5D4 is high enough to some people. as for me, my camera of choice is 5Ds/R right now! sorry i can't add any more input at this point.

Click to expand...

You shoot with the 5DSR? Do you find the lack of filter really adds more to your editing plate or is not as big of an issue as it's made out to be?

i avoided the 5DS when it first launched because everyone kept shouting that it was such a niche camera but now I am hearing more and more people use them as their active body. As long as you aren't afraid of its monstrous file sizes it seems to be a superb body.

Click to expand...

Using the 5DS/R as my go-to body. If you are not doing video it the best choice for Canon right now. 5DIV has a few advantages, but 5DS/R got all the stuff that really really counts.

Except for a little less fps it outperforms the 5DIII in almost every aspect. And in some ways by a lot. So when people were happy to use the 5DIII as an all-rounder, so you can use the 5DS/R.

If you can get the 5DIV for 2.700$ its of course well worth considering.

It's all about priorities/need/wants.

5D3 - Better AF, better max shutter, better sync speed (very slightly), better fps, dual card slots, etc....very slightly worse image quality.

5Ds/r - all of the above with much higher resolution and overall better image quality (in my opinion).

5D4 - Same as above with much better 2nd card slot and a significant jump in dynamic range.

So do you need resolution or dynamic range more? Which is worth the price you are willing to pay? 6D is a very good camera, btw, so you may or may not be chasing a minor upgrade.

I hope they do a 5Dsr mk 2 with on sensor ADC and over 50mp...that'll be a landscaper's dream camera.

Along with my Sony a99 and Sony a6300.

If I had the money, I'd spring for the one of the best "current" full frame camera...the A99II.

Mike

Mike - said:

Along with my Sony a99 and Sony a6300.

If I had the money, I'd spring for the one of the best "current" full frame camera...the A99II.

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ok, though the Sony cameras were not listed by OP, so I didn't talk about them.

Keith Z Leonard said:

5Ds/r - all of the above with much higher resolution and overall better image quality (in my opinion).

5D4 - Same as above with much better 2nd card slot and a significant jump in dynamic range.

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"significant" better DR is a subjective interpretation. 5DIV is 1 stop better at base levels falling to practically zero difference at iso 400 and above.

Visually spotting a 1 stop difference *) in a picture would be a serious challenge to most people.

The difference is more the noise pattern is better for the 5DIV at higher iso levels.

*)Between the two cameras - not in the mid-tones where 1 stop makes a big difference.

It's not so much a "leap" from the 6D to 5DIII. I've used them both side by side and, in terms of final product, found them to produce images more alike than different. What is most different is the hardware, with the 5DIII getting the nod for heftier construction, dual card slots, and a more advanced AF system.

The difference with the 5DIV and 5Ds bodies is more dramatic, particularly with the former. The latter primarily offers about 250% more pixels. In fact, except for a few tweaks, that the main attraction with the 5Ds. On the other hand, the 5DIV offers quite a few upgrades, including the single best implementation of Canon's dual-pixel technology yet to appear in any body, as well as a touchscreen to compliment it. The 30MP sensor is no slouch, either, offering better dynamic range at lower ISOs and better final output at higher ISOs than either the 6D or 5DIII.

With these considerations, the 5DIII would be out for me as an upgrade over the 6D. It's just too lateral. Unless I specifically needed those extra pixels beyond the 30MP the Mark IV offers, I'd stick with the Mark IV.

maiaibing said:

Keith Z Leonard said:

5Ds/r - all of the above with much higher resolution and overall better image quality (in my opinion).

5D4 - Same as above with much better 2nd card slot and a significant jump in dynamic range.

Click to expand...

"significant" better DR is a subjective interpretation. 5DIV is 1 stop better at base levels falling to practically zero difference at iso 400 and above.

Click to expand...

it is a subjective statement about an objective measurement, meaning that since I am free to give my opinion...not sure what your point is here. I find it significant in my use between the 5d3 and 5d4.

maiaibing said:

Visually spotting a 1 stop difference *) in a picture would be a serious challenge to most people.

Click to expand...

Subjective as well...so I won't argue other than to say I can see it and that's all that really matters to me personally when making a subjective statement.

maiaibing said:

The difference is more the noise pattern is better for the 5DIV at higher iso levels.

Click to expand...

Again subjective, but it is nicer.

maiaibing said:

*)Between the two cameras - not in the mid-tones where 1 stop makes a big difference.

Click to expand...

What TWO cameras?? We are discussing 4 cameras! Seems like you are making a HUGE assumption.

EDIT:

It occurs to me that you probably just misinterpreted what I posted giving your particular biases, like you own a 5Ds/r and assumed I was attacking it and felt the need to defend it, rather than taking it at face value as a statement about 5D4 vs 5D3 vs 6D vs 5Ds/r which is the context of the post. You then had two choices, ask for clarification or write up something to "refute" that silly idiot Keith, who clearly doesn't know anything....this is why DPR is kind of a terrible place to discuss things.

Lots of good input, and it is much appreciated.

It seems I am leaning heavily on the 5DS, especially since I have found a pristine one used locally at a good price.

My issue with spending the extra money jumping to the 5DIV is that, as I discovered with owning the 7D MKII, I really do not need all its extra features.

My budget doesn't allow for me to jump platforms unless I jump to a body that isn't as high of a leap from the 6D because I will atleast want to have my main primes right off the bat which are 35mm, 85mm, and 200mm. I entertained leaping at first but I know Canon glass well and I don't want to have to figure all that out all over again unless it's really worth it.

Crymsonglacius said:

My issue with spending the extra money jumping to the 5DIV is that, as I discovered with owning the 7D MKII, I really do not need all its extra features.

Click to expand...

Do you know where you are?! Using logic & sense to refrain from making unnecessary purchases isn't welcome around here.. ;-)

I was ready to make the jump from a 6D this time last year - as someone who shoots both landscapes and sports, like horse racing and surfing I was very interested in moving to a better focusing system and an increase in megapixels. I deliberately waited for the 5D Mk4 and ordered mine the first day it was available. I have had no regrets - my keeper-rate at sporting events has increased dramatically, and the real-world improvement in dynamic range is somewhere between striking and miraculous.

Suffice it to say, it has never occurred to me to think of what might have been, had I gone with a 5DS. I'm sure its a fine camera - but the Mk4 is where I want to be right now.

Crymsonglacius said:

You all have been extremely helpful and insightful in the past so I figured I would jump back in here to get some more info and help.

i currently shoot with a 6D, love it to death, but it's time for me to right some wrongs it has and upgrade into the 5D family. My issue is there are a little too many options and they all sound good.

my two needs in this upgrade are to break past the 6Ds limit of 1/4000 as the fastest shutter speed and since I am a bad manual focus shooter that 41/61 grid is a must.

My wants are vastly superior image quality. I shoot everything from racing to modeling and I plan on printing a lot going forward and I already do quite a bit.

i shoot 95% with prime lenses and I have worked to get some top quality ones for what my money can buy.

My considerations are:

5DMIII which leaves me with plenty leftover to add yet another prime to my kit

5DS

5DMIV

I am leaning on the 5DS simply because the Refurb price is attractive and its MP count is top in the Canon family. I am a single shot shooter even in racing so the FPS doesn't matter to me. I don't shoot video. The HIgh ISO quality is to my liking. I don't need a crazy autofocus as long as it's better than my current 6D.

that being said, the leap from the 6D to the 5DMIII is attractive because the used market is fairly cheap on them so in the same budget I could leap to some primes I have had on my list for awhile.

thoughts?

Click to expand...

Love my 6Ds. I shoot weddings and events, so low light performance, nailing just the right exposure, focusing in the dark... these are the types of things very important to me. Also, really wanted those dual card slots. Tack on to all of that my desire to do some video work, and the 5DM4 seems to be just the right fit for me. Picked mine up about two weeks ago. Seems to be the perfect blend - higher resolution, but still very good low light performance. Really like that touch screen too!

noggin2k1 said:

Crymsonglacius said:

My issue with spending the extra money jumping to the 5DIV is that, as I discovered with owning the 7D MKII, I really do not need all its extra features.

Click to expand...

Do you know where you are?! Using logic & sense to refrain from making unnecessary purchases isn't welcome around here.. ;-)

Click to expand...

Ha ha true. Well my really good price option for the 5DS just went out the window (my camera shop sold it before my deposit came through) so now I am back to flip flopping.

Even after mostly settling on the 5DS I am having hell actually thinking of parting with that much cash for a body when I still want some longer primes.

This side of camera owning kills me lol.

GriffinClubMerv said:

I was ready to make the jump from a 6D this time last year - as someone who shoots both landscapes and sports, like horse racing and surfing I was very interested in moving to a better focusing system and an increase in megapixels. I deliberately waited for the 5D Mk4 and ordered mine the first day it was available. I have had no regrets - my keeper-rate at sporting events has increased dramatically, and the real-world improvement in dynamic range is somewhere between striking and miraculous.

Suffice it to say, it has never occurred to me to think of what might have been, had I gone with a 5DS. I'm sure its a fine camera - but the Mk4 is where I want to be right now.

Click to expand...

That's definitely good feedback. I was going to make the jump last year as well but decide instead to flip my kit to prime lenses only to maximize my 6D quality.

Now that I have the glass to make the upgrade worthwhile I want to make sure I make the right choice so I don't have to do this again in 2-4 years. I want whatever body I upgrade to be the body I run until the shutter falls off.

Crymsonglacius said:

You all have been extremely helpful and insightful in the past so I figured I would jump back in here to get some more info and help.

i currently shoot with a 6D, love it to death, but it's time for me to right some wrongs it has and upgrade into the 5D family. My issue is there are a little too many options and they all sound good.

my two needs in this upgrade are to break past the 6Ds limit of 1/4000 as the fastest shutter speed and since I am a bad manual focus shooter that 41/61 grid is a must.

My wants are vastly superior image quality. I shoot everything from racing to modeling and I plan on printing a lot going forward and I already do quite a bit.

i shoot 95% with prime lenses and I have worked to get some top quality ones for what my money can buy.

My considerations are:

5DMIII which leaves me with plenty leftover to add yet another prime to my kit

5DS

5DMIV

I am leaning on the 5DS simply because the Refurb price is attractive and its MP count is top in the Canon family. I am a single shot shooter even in racing so the FPS doesn't matter to me. I don't shoot video. The HIgh ISO quality is to my liking. I don't need a crazy autofocus as long as it's better than my current 6D.

that being said, the leap from the 6D to the 5DMIII is attractive because the used market is fairly cheap on them so in the same budget I could leap to some primes I have had on my list for awhile.

thoughts?

Click to expand...

Don't let all the options on the 5D scare you, it's actually very simple, there are really only like 4 menus and basically once you figure out how it's laid out it's not difficult at all. It's actually easier.

I would either go with the 5D Mark IV or 5DSR, just because the 5D Mark iii, you are only going to see benefits of features with no benefits of image quality and if you're gonna upgrade you might as well see better image quality.

Pulling the shadows in the 5D Mark IV is amazing, it feels just like the A7R to me and DXO mark rates it about the same.

I'd choose the 5D Mark IV over the 5DSR for dual pixel AF as well, I didn't think I'd use it for photos but I was wrong, it's extremely handy, especially when you control it from an iPad or iPhone with hardly any lag.

I'd choose the 5D Mark IV for the fact that you can shoot 4k at 30FPS meaning you have 8.8 MP tiff images at 30 FPS, that means no matter how fast animals or sports are going you will get the shot and the dual pixel AF will track the animal flawlessly.

I'd choose the 5D Mark IV because the touch screen even in the menus makes way more of a difference than I thought it did or swiping through the photos and zooming in.

I do like the resolution of the 5DSR but at actual output I can't really tell the difference. Of course you can if you zoom in at 1:1 but if you print, even native size, it's not a drastic difference or if you output to the web.

I'd choose the 5D Mark IV because the focusing system in the mirror is flat out amazing. You can track anything and it seems to never miss. Much different than the 5D Mark iii, although it had the same amount of focus points, it didn't have the algorithms this has.

I like that you can use exposure compensation in manual mode with auto ISO, although I think the 5DSR does that too but the 5D iii doesn't. The 5Diii and 6D always underexposed a bit too much for my liking.

I used to be that guy that always said, "The lens comes first, buy the cheaper body so you can get the better lens." However, I found out the hard way, if I can't really get the shots I want to get and miss most of them, that nice lens didn't really do me much good and I'd be better off with an inferior lens on a camera that allowed me to get the shot I wanted.

With the 5D Mark iii you will still have to focus and recompose like the 6D in a lot of situations, the 5D mark IV can see in the dark very well, I've never focused and recomposed with it.

There are a lot of other kinda hidden not so obvious features that are new as well which really blew my mind, however the 5DSR has a lot of those as well.

For example look up the youtube video, "Back button focus on steroids." That feature alone makes the two newer cameras worth it for me.

BlueCosmo5050 said:

Crymsonglacius said:

You all have been extremely helpful and insightful in the past so I figured I would jump back in here to get some more info and help.

i currently shoot with a 6D, love it to death, but it's time for me to right some wrongs it has and upgrade into the 5D family. My issue is there are a little too many options and they all sound good.

my two needs in this upgrade are to break past the 6Ds limit of 1/4000 as the fastest shutter speed and since I am a bad manual focus shooter that 41/61 grid is a must.

My wants are vastly superior image quality. I shoot everything from racing to modeling and I plan on printing a lot going forward and I already do quite a bit.

i shoot 95% with prime lenses and I have worked to get some top quality ones for what my money can buy.

My considerations are:

5DMIII which leaves me with plenty leftover to add yet another prime to my kit

5DS

5DMIV

I am leaning on the 5DS simply because the Refurb price is attractive and its MP count is top in the Canon family. I am a single shot shooter even in racing so the FPS doesn't matter to me. I don't shoot video. The HIgh ISO quality is to my liking. I don't need a crazy autofocus as long as it's better than my current 6D.

that being said, the leap from the 6D to the 5DMIII is attractive because the used market is fairly cheap on them so in the same budget I could leap to some primes I have had on my list for awhile.

thoughts?

Click to expand...

Don't let all the options on the 5D scare you, it's actually very simple, there are really only like 4 menus and basically once you figure out how it's laid out it's not difficult at all. It's actually easier.

I would either go with the 5D Mark IV or 5DSR, just because the 5D Mark iii, you are only going to see benefits of features with no benefits of image quality and if you're gonna upgrade you might as well see better image quality.

Pulling the shadows in the 5D Mark IV is amazing, it feels just like the A7R to me and DXO mark rates it about the same.

I'd choose the 5D Mark IV over the 5DSR for dual pixel AF as well, I didn't think I'd use it for photos but I was wrong, it's extremely handy, especially when you control it from an iPad or iPhone with hardly any lag.

I'd choose the 5D Mark IV for the fact that you can shoot 4k at 30FPS meaning you have 8.8 MP tiff images at 30 FPS, that means no matter how fast animals or sports are going you will get the shot and the dual pixel AF will track the animal flawlessly.

I'd choose the 5D Mark IV because the touch screen even in the menus makes way more of a difference than I thought it did or swiping through the photos and zooming in.

I do like the resolution of the 5DSR but at actual output I can't really tell the difference. Of course you can if you zoom in at 1:1 but if you print, even native size, it's not a drastic difference or if you output to the web.

I'd choose the 5D Mark IV because the focusing system in the mirror is flat out amazing. You can track anything and it seems to never miss. Much different than the 5D Mark iii, although it had the same amount of focus points, it didn't have the algorithms this has.

I like that you can use exposure compensation in manual mode with auto ISO, although I think the 5DSR does that too but the 5D iii doesn't. The 5Diii and 6D always underexposed a bit too much for my liking.

I used to be that guy that always said, "The lens comes first, buy the cheaper body so you can get the better lens." However, I found out the hard way, if I can't really get the shots I want to get and miss most of them, that nice lens didn't really do me much good and I'd be better off with an inferior lens on a camera that allowed me to get the shot I wanted.

With the 5D Mark iii you will still have to focus and recompose like the 6D in a lot of situations, the 5D mark IV can see in the dark very well, I've never focused and recomposed with it.

There are a lot of other kinda hidden not so obvious features that are new as well which really blew my mind, however the 5DSR has a lot of those as well.

For example look up the youtube video, "Back button focus on steroids." That feature alone makes the two newer cameras worth it for me

Click to expand...

You targeted some very specific points that definitely hit home.

In looking for a new body I kept looking at all my good shots with the 6D and deciding what I wanted to improve when in reality I need to think through all the bad shots and why they were bad.

I have located used bodies for sale on both the 5DS and 5DIV for good prices which is making this decision difficult but your input has me leaning heavily on the 5DIV although the $1200 price difference between the two stoll has me feeling shifty.

i have made up my mind, i put my money on a 5Ds/R for its high mp sensor! i have some nice and memorable shots that were taken with low rez. cameras that doesn't leave ANY room for cropping, so i have decided to go high rez. sensor! the new 5DIV is good but not good enough for what i want it to be. i know sooner or later the 5Ds/RII will show up but i am not sure if waiting that long is a good idea. if canon decides to come out with 5Ds/R II with 75mp sensor, now that would be a killer camera, that will be the camera that i'll have for the rest of my life :-D