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Another Big Camera Store Fails:

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ZodiacPhoto said:
Can somebody please explain, what stopped Showcase, and many other local stores, from selling to the rest of the USA, outside of GA, without the sales tax?
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Investment in development and maintenance of a sophisticated webstore.

This requires understanding how one can sell without smooth talking to a customer. A very difficult process for people who have difficulty in writing and visualizing a virtual sales environment. For them, the concept of talking without eyes locked is non existant.

--
you need a team to realize your dream
 
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Eamon Hickey said:
braysghost said:
No responses Henry?

This makes me believe you are just gloating - one less competitor!

Totally pitiful!
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From past experience with Henry's comments, going back 10 years or more, on many threads about the camera business, and camera retailing, I'm quite sure he was not gloating.

I know from experience that Henry has a neutral interest in the business of selling cameras, its various aspects, and in what direction it's evolving. I'm guessing he made this post to bring some information to the attention of other folks, like me, who are also interested in those things.
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Yup. I believe he wanted to share the news. Nothing more. Nothing less.
 
ZodiacPhoto said:
Can somebody please explain, what stopped Showcase, and many other local stores, from selling to the rest of the USA, outside of GA, without the sales tax? People from NY and NJ would gladly buy from them, and B&H and Adorama would complain that Showcase, not Amazon, are their biggest competitor.

I guess their bet on local buyers - a wrong decision in Internet age - is what drove them out of business. They can't blame their failure on NY stores for their own bad business decisions.

Remember how much space did B&H and Adorama's advertisements use to take in magazines such as Popular Photo, Outdoor Photographer, etc.? There were multiple pages, with detailed specs and prices. Now, with web, it is not absolutely necessary, but they still publish a page or so.

I learned about Showcase existence from this thread! Where have they been with their adds?
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It is not as simple, and easy, like just to say "let's do it."

To develop a new sales platform requires expertise, and resource. Even big companies like Target, BestBuy and Macy lack either one or both of those. They are eaten up by Amazon, and to a certain extent, Walmart because the later two seems to have more of E and R.

B&H had done a great job with their website. But if you know what they had devoted in their catalogues before the web age, you wouldn't be surprise. I used to receive catalogues from them that looked more like the Thomas Registers in the New York City Library (small town libraries couldn't afford to carry them because of $ and space).

And when you talk about those advertisements in Popular Photography (and the like). When I was still running my business, I looked into having a 1/8 page column advertisement in one of those magazine, it would cost mid 4 figures per issue. And they suggested to me that I should buy at least 4 issues to see the effect. Now, I guess you can guess how much B&H was paying for those 10 pages mini catalogue on every single magazine, and every single issue.

As for Amazon, they use what they took in with their stock valuation and pay for all that with OPM (other people's money).
 
Today it is an overstatement to say "Amazon doesn't collect sales tax." Perhaps it was true 20 years ago, but since they have expanded their warehouse and distribution centers to more states, they collect sales tax in most states. According to their own website, they now collect sales taxes in 39 states.

81a634962d67427599e2ad90f315d4f6.jpg

And that list of states will keep growing as they keep adding more distribution centers in new states, or have more affiliated companies. So that competitive advantage will shrink even more over time. To my knowledge, B&H only has a physical presence in NY and a NJ warehouse.

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Marty4650 said:
Today it is an overstatement to say "Amazon doesn't collect sales tax." Perhaps it was true 20 years ago, but since they have expanded their warehouse and distribution centers to more states, they collect sales tax in most states. According to their own website, they now collect sales taxes in 39 states.
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It depends.

The Amazon web site has merchandise that is sold by Amazon, sold by third parties and shipped by Amazon, and merchandise that is sold by third parties and shipped by third parties.

The provided list only applies to merchandise sold by Amazon. For merchandise sold by third parties, the merchant is responsible for setting where tax will be collected.

Many buyers are not aware that third parties sell on Amazon, and think that whatever they are ordering is coming from Amazon.

Suppose I was a NY camera store with a warehouse in New Jersey. I may choose to list some merchandise on Amazon, and to ship it from my warehouse. In this situation I would only be required to collect sales tax on items shipped to NY and NJ.

Suppose I was a NY camera store, who sold on Amazon, kept merchandise in Amazon's warehouses, and contracted for Amazon to ship the order's from their warehouses. In such a case I would be required to collect sales tax for my home state, and any state where Amazon is storing my merchandise.

My point is that when buying from the Amazon web site from one of the listed states, you may, or may not, be charged sales tax.

 
DMKAlex said:
B&H had done a great job with their website.
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I remember their websites at the beginning of Internet era - they were just as basic as everybody else in that business. The fact is that they dedicated time, money, and expertise to improve their web presence dramatically.
DMKAlex said:
But if you know what they had devoted in their catalogues before the web age, you wouldn't be surprise. I used to receive catalogues from them that looked more like the Thomas Registers in the New York City Library (small town libraries couldn't afford to carry them because of $ and space).
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I still keep some of older B&H catalogues at work - they were great as a reference source, and print quality was great - full color, good paper, etc.
DMKAlex said:
And when you talk about those advertisements in Popular Photography (and the like). When I was still running my business, I looked into having a 1/8 page column advertisement in one of those magazine, it would cost mid 4 figures per issue. And they suggested to me that I should buy at least 4 issues to see the effect. Now, I guess you can guess how much B&H was paying for those 10 pages mini catalogue on every single magazine, and every single issue.

As for Amazon, they use what they took in with their stock valuation and pay for all that with OPM (other people's money).
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I just say that when somebody fails in business, they should not blame those who succeeded for their lack of resources, knowledge, and willingness to change the business model.
 
ZodiacPhoto said:
I just say that when somebody fails in business, they should not blame those who succeeded for their lack of resources, knowledge, and willingness to change the business model.
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I am not talking about blame here. As I said in one of my posts here, the retail business is in a inflection point (actually the world is going thru an inflection point as well). Everything that we were used to had changed on us. Under this kind of extraordinary situation, not everyone would come out all right.
 
henryp said:
Another Big Camera Store Fails: Why Are So Many Closing?

Some informative insights here IMO
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I was shocked and saddened when I found out in January that Showcase was going out of business. It's still hard to believe that a city of five or six million cannot support a single full service camera store.

I gave Showcase a decent amount of business, even with a sales tax penalty, because I appreciated being able to try equipment and also because I appreciated the advice (even when I didn't agree with it). I always found the staff there pleasant, knowledgeable and helpful.

B&H is great, too, but I don't want it to be my only option. Ergonomics are just as important as the technical specs for me, and the only way I can judge ergonomics is to hold a camera in my hands. I can't do that over the Internet. Now, my choices are entry level Canikons at Best Buy or a trip to New York when I want to make a major purchase. I would rather pay the sales tax.

 
Your comments are good, but I believe the store deserved to die. Blaming it on other firms who have creative and innovative management just shows us how bad the management of this store was. So many people on this forum focus on the sales tax issue. They miss the point. As you have written, this is not the most important issue. The store had no vision and acted like it was still 1965 (paraphrasing another poster), had no internet presence, etc. Basically, they were asleep and lazy. Good riddance; we shouldn't be lamenting the demise of such losers.

--
"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
 
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Corkcampbell said:
Your comments are good, but I believe the store deserved to die. Blaming it on other firms who have creative and innovative management just shows us how bad the management of this store was. So many people on this forum focus on the sales tax issue. They miss the point. As you have written, this is not the most important issue. The store had no vision and acted like it was still 1965 (paraphrasing another poster), had no internet presence, etc. Basically, they were asleep and lazy. Good riddance; we shouldn't be lamenting the demise of such losers.
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If there were other camera stores in town, maybe I wouldn't be lamenting their demise so much. But they were the last ones standing, and they outlasted Wolf/Ritz and a host of others by a long shot.

They always treated me well, and I do hate to see them go. It's the end of an era, and I am not sure the new era bodes well for traditional photographers or the photography business in general.

 
Never said B&H needed to collect tax. I was making the point the tax system as it currently stands is not fair to some brick & mortar...

BTW - https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59214088
ArtMar said:
Thanks Michael Fryd and Braysghost for the clarifications.

So, now my question (for Braysghost) is: why would you expect B&H to collect out of state taxes, putting their business at a disadvantage, if they're not required to? Can you name any for-profit businesses that are altruistic to the detriment of their own business interests?
braysghost said:
Michael Fryd said:
ArtMar said:
Do you think that B&H can charge sales tax on online out of state sales although no such law requiring that has been enacted by the NY legislature?

I don't think so, I believe that would be illegal.
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Internet stores do not "charge" sales tax, they "collect" it on behalf of a state.

Consider an Internet merchant in New York, who is selling to someone in California. As long as the merchant does not have a "presence" in California, California cannot require the merchant to collect California sales tax. However, the merchant may choose to register with the California Board of Equalization, and then may legally collect California sales tax on sales shipped to California.

The bottom line is that merchants are allowed to register and collect sales tax for any state they want. However it doesn't make business sense to collect sales tax when not required to do so. This puts you at a disadvantage compared to your competitors.
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Also is it technically against the law to not pay the sales/use tax in many states. My state requires you to pay the tax.

"The most common situation that gives rise to a use tax liability is when an Ohio customer makes a mail order purchase from an out-of-state seller. If the seller is not located in Ohio and does not have substantial nexus with Ohio, the seller is not required to collect and remit Ohio sales tax. The responsibility becomes yours as the consumer. This happens frequently where purchases are made through small vendors online."

http://www.tax.ohio.gov/TaxEducation/internet_catalog_purchases.aspx

Thank goodness Amazon is building a massive AWS datacenters in three locations around Columbus. It is expected to net Ohio 100m+ a year in taxes. It also has brought our local Best Buy type stores back. They used to be ghost town showrooms for Amazon, now they are packed with people again. Why wait two days when you can now go in and pick up the product for the same price.

This is exactly why what Henry did is terrible with this thread. If B&H was collecting GA tax, the failed store would have had a better chance of survival. People would have bought there because the prices would have been equal, not at a 8% disadvantage to B&H.
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Janeinny said:
Yeah, I could not resist putting in my two cents. I live within walking distance if B&H & I'm amazed that the store does so well given their treatment of certain (non-male) customers & generally unhelpful & usually very rushed sales team. For used, I'll go out of state & buy from KEH even if I have to spend more.
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One reason the store has done so well, dating back to 1973 is that the rumors of treatment of certain (non-male) customers & generally unhelpful & usually very rushed sales team is simply not borne out by customer experience. If we were lousy at what we do, we'd have sunk decades ago.
 
Teila Day said:
Again, B&H is great but be well aware that you can sometimes find a much better deal online from another reputable dealer.
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Any time you find a lower price from a legitimate retailer we're open to the price-match question. The easiest way to ask is via sales[at]bhphoto.com
 
Tequila MockingjayBird said:
sooner rather than later one of the manufacturer is going to adopt an online selling solution that actually works and that will trigger others to follow suit and put even B&H, Adorama and the like on their backfoot.
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Store A for your camera; stores B & C for lenses, store D for the camera bag and strap, store E for memory cards, back to store A for a speedlight, stores F & G for other accessories. Is that how you want to shop?
 
Eamon Hickey said:
From past experience with Henry's comments, going back 10 years or more, on many threads about the camera business, and camera retailing, I'm quite sure he was not gloating.
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Thank you. Gloating over the misfortune of others is schadenfreude. It is not something I would ever be inclined to do.
peripheralfocus said:
I know from experience that Henry has a neutral interest in the business of selling cameras, its various aspects, and in what direction it's evolving. I'm guessing he made this post to bring some information to the attention of other folks, like me, who are also interested in those things.
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While I am a B&H employee (20+ years here) my more wide-angle interest was in the nature of retail, particularly interstate sales and rebates. Had this article been about a haberdashery or supermarket chain with a similar clientele and the sentiments expressed by the owner applicable, I'd have posted it here anyway.
 
DMKAlex said:
B&H had done a great job with their website. But if you know what they had devoted in their catalogues before the web age, you wouldn't be surprise. I used to receive catalogues from them that looked more like the Thomas Registers in the New York City Library (small town libraries couldn't afford to carry them because of $ and space).
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Here's a coincidence. Until quite recently my wife worked for Thomas Register (later ThomasNet) and was an integral part of their shift from print to online. Small world.
 
Rick Knepper said:
I expressed my surprise earlier that he posted the article criticizing NY entities but I felt he didn't read it carefully enough.
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I read it VERY carefully, three times. The author is a former co-worker for whom I have great respect. I then shared it with current fellow managers at B&H, here, in Facebook (where it got much less response), and LinkedIn. I would not presume to share something like this unless I was VERY familiar with the contents.
 
kaphinga said:
B&H is great, too, but I don't want it to be my only option.
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NEITHER DO I !!!

PERSONAL OPINION:
I'm a fan of Darwin -- competition strengthens all competitors. Cheetahs are fast because gazelles are fast. B&H is as good as we are, and never resting on our accolades, because we know what our customers expect and we know competitors are always nipping at our heels. If our competitors got lazy, there's a danger we'd slow down too. I would hate that.
 
So in relative terms, today we are BELOW where we were in, say, the 1980s, in terms of SLR sales. And back then there was no competition if you wanted to see the scene you were photographing, through the lens! But now there is tons of it.

rrccad said:
digitallollygag said:
antoineb said:
Some figures to start with:
- in the peak year 2010, no less than 121 million dedicated cameras were sold. Last year, it was closer to 20m. About 6 TIMES less.
- in 2015, about 97% of all cameras sold, were those on Smartphones. They accounted for an even bigger shares of photos that were taken, uploaded, and shared. In 2016, the figure was closer to 98%.
- DSLRs and mirrorless are NOT saving the party. They peaked at 21m units in 2012, and were below 11m units last year. That's HALF. Within this, mirrorless has stayed just over 3m units for the past 4 years, i.e. no growth, while DSLRs continued to shrink.

Needless to say, revenues came down roughly in line with units - a bit less so, due to attempts to move upmarket a bit.

Needless to say, retailers had extended their Photo space massively on the run to the peak. Non-dedicated retailers had flexibility to adjust in-store space. Dedicated photo retailers had no choice.

I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised that dedicated photo retailers should fail.

Will they ALL disappear? Hopefully not! In theory you can still make money off 10-11m ILC units, plus accessories and lenses. BUT:
- one worrying demographic, is that the younger generations couldn't care less about big, dedicated cameras. They have grown with Smartphones, and don't see why they should lug a big heavy beast that will be inferior to their Smartphone in many ways (even if it delivers better very high ISO).
- and one worrying development (for ILCs, not from my point of view), is that pretty soon all smartphones will have dual or triple imaging modules, will deliver very solid IQ, and will be able to zoom either virtually, or perhaps even thanks to actual optical zooms.
henryp said:
Another Big Camera Store Fails: Why Are So Many Closing?

Some informative insights here IMO

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
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Yes, let that soak in for a minute: less than 11 million DSLRs last year in world population of close to 7.5 BILLION. How much longer and deeper is this contraction going?
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what about it? before digital the peak was around 6.5 million slr's per year and cameras weren't replaced nearly as often.
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