ti1 upgrade to t7i/77D - big difference?

steve6543 · Feb 27, 2017

I've got a t1i and a handful of lenses. I was thinking of the following upgrade paths:

T7i/77D (cheapest path since I can keep all my glass)

Sony Alpha 6500 (lightest option and the image quality appears better than the t7i)

Sony Alpha 7II (the best image quality of the bunch but the most expensive and the lenses can get quite heavy)

Obviously staying with Canon is nice because I get to keep my lenses but I don't want to put good money after bad if Sony is going to continue to deliver the best sensors.

My main question right now: Given that the t7i is the same sensor size and same manufacturer as my ti1, am I actually going to notice an image quality difference or would I be better off just using my ti1 for now until I am ready to make a much bigger change?

I primarily shoot handheld nature/landscape/adventure sport photos so I am constantly going into raw files to work with the highlights and shadows. I'm also constantly striving for as much detail as possible.

I don't do video now (the video features on the ti1 are painful,) but I could see myself starting to do video if my next camera was capable.

WilbaW · Feb 27, 2017

The 15MP sensor in the 500D (and 50D) was not a highlight in Canon's history and only lasted one generation. You will see a significant improvement with the current models.

How far do you push your shadows? If you habitually push 3 or more steps then get a Sony sensor, but up to 2 is absolutely fine even with the 18MP sensors in the generation after your 500d.

Don't forget that detail is not only about the sensor, it depends a lot on AF accuracy, so the autofocus microadjustment of the 80D (plus all the other action and raw-shooting advantages of that line) is worth considering.

Which lenses do you have?

steve6543 · Feb 27, 2017

Thanks.

80D would be too heavy. Long hiking trips. T1i is almost too heavy already.

If i put shadows to 100 in Lightroom, how many stips is that?

Lenses:

Ef-s 10-18

Ef 50f1.8

Sigma 100mm f2.8 macro

Old ef-s 55-250and 18-55

Not quite enough to lock me down to one platform.

WilbaW · Feb 27, 2017

steve6543 said:
80D would be too heavy. Long hiking trips. T1i is almost too heavy already.

If i put shadows to 100 in Lightroom, how many stips is that?

Hmm, hard to say for sure, but a quick check on a landscape shot shows +0.4 steps on the Exposure slider in ACR gives about the same boost to the shadows as +100 on the Shadows slider, so that's not a lot really.

steve6543 said:
Lenses:

Ef-s 10-18

Ef 50f1.8

Sigma 100mm f2.8 macro

Old ef-s 55-250and 18-55

Not quite enough to lock me down to one platform.

True, and full frame is going to be too heavy and expensive with equivalent lenses.

I can't advise about options outside of Canon, but if you were to stay with the brand I'd look for a kit with the latest 18-55 and 55-250. Those and the 10-18 gives you a great focal length range and performance for a low price. If you're not in a hurry it might be worth waiting to see if the SL2 rumours come true.

steve6543 · Feb 27, 2017

WilbaW said:
steve6543 said:

80D would be too heavy. Long hiking trips. T1i is almost too heavy already.

If i put shadows to 100 in Lightroom, how many stips is that?

Click to expand...

Hmm, hard to say for sure, but a quick check on a landscape shot shows +0.4 steps on the Exposure slider in ACR gives about the same boost to the shadows as +100 on the Shadows slider, so that's not a lot really.

WilbaW said:

Lenses:

Ef-s 10-18

Ef 50f1.8

Sigma 100mm f2.8 macro

Old ef-s 55-250and 18-55

Not quite enough to lock me down to one platform.

Click to expand...

True, and full frame is going to be too heavy and expensive with equivalent lenses.

I can't advise about options outside of Canon, but if you were to stay with the brand I'd look for a kit with the latest 18-55 and 55-250. Those and the 10-18 gives you a great focal length range and performance for a low price. If you're not in a hurry it might be worth waiting to see if the SL2 rumours come true.

WilbaW · Feb 28, 2017

steve6543 said:
WilbaW said:

If you're not in a hurry it might be worth waiting to see if the SL2 rumours come true.

Click to expand...

I probably shouldn't wait for more rumours! I've been waiting since the ti2!

LOL. A few more months won't matter.

steve6543 said:
What do you think about this?

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...EOS-80D-versus-Canon-EOS-500D___1127_1076_586

It sure doesn't make the 80D (I'm hoping the t7i will be similar) look that much better than the ti1. In fact, it shows the ti1 outperforming on dynamic range at some ISO settings!

That's just one measurement (which won't matter if you're only pushing your shadows half a step), the difference in image quality is much more than that. I can't compare the 500D with the 80D, but in coming from the 450D to the 60D and now the 7D II, it's very clear how much more I can do with the raw files from one to the next, how much closer I can crop, and how much better the images look. DXO numbers don't tell you how your real world images will actually look.

But if you're stuck on having the biggest DR in the bunch, then sure, get a Sony sensor in the camera you like the most and live happily ever after.

captura · Mar 3, 2017

steve6543 said:
I've got a t1i and a handful of lenses. I was thinking of the following upgrade paths:

T7i/77D (cheapest path since I can keep all my glass)

Sony Alpha 6500 (lightest option and the image quality appears better than the t7i)

I just saw this.

As an owner of several small e-mount cameras like the A6000, I can tell you that Sony has not introduced any new lenses for the series in about 3 years. Some of those still remaining are of dubious quality, leaving only a handful of decent quality. The kit lens may be the worst performer in the industry.

Indeed, why not get the T7i? Then you can still use your old lenses.

Woody W. · Mar 4, 2017

steve6543 said:
I've got a t1i and a handful of lenses. I was thinking of the following upgrade paths:

T7i/77D (cheapest path since I can keep all my glass)

Sony Alpha 6500 (lightest option and the image quality appears better than the t7i)

Sony Alpha 7II (the best image quality of the bunch but the most expensive and the lenses can get quite heavy)

Obviously staying with Canon is nice because I get to keep my lenses but I don't want to put good money after bad if Sony is going to continue to deliver the best sensors.

OK. Let's stop here for a moment. I call false premise "good money after bad". Just because product A is "best" at one measureable specification, doesn't mean that anything else is "bad". Every SLR/ILC sensor made today is so freaking awesome that you will almost certainly be thrilled with the day to day image quality. Heck, even the 15MP Canon sensor in your camera was (and is still) no slouch subjectively for day to day imagery.

DPReview has been harping all over "ISO Invariance" and "dynamic range" recently because virtually every spec of almost all of the sensors today are so good in 99.98% of real-world photographic situations that they had to find SOME measurable way beyond pixel count to differentiate them.

In addition, there are a lot of other factors to consider besides the sensor, such as how the camera feels in your hands, and how intuitive you find the controls.

steve6543 said:
My main question right now: Given that the t7i is the same sensor size and same manufacturer as my ti1, am I actually going to notice an image quality difference or would I be better off just using my ti1 for now until I am ready to make a much bigger change?

The real question is, what is driving the change? What is the weakness you are noticing in your images today that you are hoping to address?

steve6543 said:
I primarily shoot handheld nature/landscape/adventure sport photos so I am constantly going into raw files to work with the highlights and shadows. I'm also constantly striving for as much detail as possible.

Do you get enough of that detail? If you are pushing things, then any of the latest generation camera sensors will give you a lot more room to play, as well as greater native sensitivity so you might not actually need to do it as often.

steve6543 said:
I don't do video now (the video features on the ti1 are painful,) but I could see myself starting to do video if my next camera was capable.

Again, this area has improved substantially across camera brands and models.

steve6543 · Mar 5, 2017

Thanks for your response. Here are two pictures that were taken in challenging light conditions. I pushed them both pretty far in Lightroom after shooting in Raw. I'm not entirely happy with the results and wonder if a better sensor might have given me the extra leeway.

Woody W. said:
steve6543 said:

I've got a t1i and a handful of lenses. I was thinking of the following upgrade paths:

T7i/77D (cheapest path since I can keep all my glass)

Sony Alpha 6500 (lightest option and the image quality appears better than the t7i)

Sony Alpha 7II (the best image quality of the bunch but the most expensive and the lenses can get quite heavy)

Obviously staying with Canon is nice because I get to keep my lenses but I don't want to put good money after bad if Sony is going to continue to deliver the best sensors.

Click to expand...

OK. Let's stop here for a moment. I call false premise "good money after bad". Just because product A is "best" at one measureable specification, doesn't mean that anything else is "bad". Every SLR/ILC sensor made today is so freaking awesome that you will almost certainly be thrilled with the day to day image quality. Heck, even the 15MP Canon sensor in your camera was (and is still) no slouch subjectively for day to day imagery.

DPReview has been harping all over "ISO Invariance" and "dynamic range" recently because virtually every spec of almost all of the sensors today are so good in 99.98% of real-world photographic situations that they had to find SOME measurable way beyond pixel count to differentiate them.

In addition, there are a lot of other factors to consider besides the sensor, such as how the camera feels in your hands, and how intuitive you find the controls.

Woody W. said:

My main question right now: Given that the t7i is the same sensor size and same manufacturer as my ti1, am I actually going to notice an image quality difference or would I be better off just using my ti1 for now until I am ready to make a much bigger change?

Click to expand...

The real question is, what is driving the change? What is the weakness you are noticing in your images today that you are hoping to address?

Woody W. said:

I primarily shoot handheld nature/landscape/adventure sport photos so I am constantly going into raw files to work with the highlights and shadows. I'm also constantly striving for as much detail as possible.

Click to expand...

Do you get enough of that detail? If you are pushing things, then any of the latest generation camera sensors will give you a lot more room to play, as well as greater native sensitivity so you might not actually need to do it as often.

Woody W. said:

I don't do video now (the video features on the ti1 are painful,) but I could see myself starting to do video if my next camera was capable.

Click to expand...

Again, this area has improved substantially across camera brands and models.

--
- Woody -
Equipment: Enough. For now.
Quote: 'The only thing some people will believe is their own eyes. But in the realm of the quality of a printed image, is there really anything else that can be believed? '

rmexpress22 · Mar 5, 2017

This would be a huge jump for you. I've shot the 50D and 70D side by side and at ISO1600 the 50D noise was mostly acceptable but I couldn't get the colors right. The t1i and 50D both had the same sensor.

I have an 80D now and the sensor is a bit better than the 70D and the AF is definitely much better. I think the t7i inherits the same AF system and dual-pixel AF and they're both miles ahead of the t1i.

My girlfriend has a t6i and it handles really well. I think the t7i will be a great option with the upgrades it's getting.

Woody W. · Mar 6, 2017

Thanks for the example shots!

Yes, you will likely see a great deal of improvement in images like these - both at capture time (HDR mode), as well as the ability to post-process from RAW. Note that the HDR mode comes in the "Creative Zone" and so might not give you the level of direct control you seek (not 100% sure, as the camera isn't in-hand, yet). However, the much-improved dynamic range of the sensor should also give you the latitude you need to draw out some serious shadow detail with minimal noise.

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ti1 upgrade to t7i/77D - big difference?

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