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5D Mark IV Rant/Thoughts/Short review after few days

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Thank you for the post! Im moving back to Canon after a brief fling with Fuji and have my 5D Mark IV in the mail as we speak! Your review pointed out so many things that I believe many reviewers left out. The crop does indeed boost the image quality as theres not as much sensor use. Thus why we see such amazing quality out of micro 4/3rds cameras!

Anyway thank you for your post, feeling even more confident in my decision to go with the 5D 4.
 
Wing2 said:
shii said:
Just like a decathlan champion in the Olympics who may not hold any world records, the 5D4 may not be class-leading in any of the features but it does everything very well and is an all-rounded champion in its own right. Besides, I do think it is the leader in usability.
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The focusing system is as good as the 1dxII. I have both bodies and gravitate towards the IV in most situations. My 1dxII just sits now most of the time.

Once sports season starts I'll get a better feel. But during my testing, AF tracking is superb and is only lacking in fps, compared to the 1dxii. And Low light focusing is really remarkable.
 
BlueCosmo5050 said:
*This post was written in pure rant fashion. Fast typing and no spell checking. Just a pure stream of consciousness. Read at your own discretion.*

I'm not one to hype, even if I'm excited about a new camera. Now that I've owned the camera I know for a fact that the people that felt like the 5D Mark IV wasn't a good enough upgrade were completely out of their minds.

The hit rate is insane. Tracking fast moving small eyes in almost pure darkness, NOT using the center focus point. The shadow recovery, amazing.

I spent the most time out of any camera with the 5D Mark iii. I had the 5D Mark ii before that. Went to the Sony A7R, came back to Canon and got the 6D. When I had the 5D Mark iii, I wasn't all that excited about tracking. I'm not a wild life guy. I just dealt with having 1 in 9 shots in focus. So far, and I'm not over exaggerating, I have not had a single missed shot. All sharp at 1:1. Baring in mind that most of my test have been done at night and in dark rooms, (as it's hard to get an off day sometimes at work.)

The focusing system is obviously not the same as the 5D Mark iii, it doesn't even feel close. But because they both have the same amount of focus points, on paper that looks like it's not a huge upgrade. To me, it seems like a huge upgrade. It's not that it just goes down in lower light with -3EV points, it seems to be more intelligent. It's as if it knows what I'm thinking.

There definitely are some software/hardware things with the focus system going on that most of us wouldn't understand on a spec sheet that really can't be experienced unless you actually shoot with the camera.

I expected it to be much heavier than my 6D, I didn't even notice the difference. Of course it is heavier, but with a 24-70 2.8 ii on, it feels about the same in real world use.

I was surprised that the metering system seems to be extremely intelligent. The 5D Mark iii and 6D constantly under exposed, the 5D Mark IV seems to be reading a lot more information at a faster speed as well.

I have gotten shots that were not possible for me before. Most of them have been of family and pets as I have not done a job with it yet, but to capture my family or pets in those positions before I had to use an iPhone. The 6D would be way too big of a hassle to try to get the shot and by the time I got close the scene would be over. The 5D Mark iii would be a little easier but it's not snappy enough so you don't feel this need to get it and you just take out your cell phone instead. Now I finally actually pull out the big camera for regular special moments that only I will see for personal use. Before, the DSLR was only for professional jobs or serious shots that were quite stationary. Such as a pet laying down STILL. The pet now can move freely, I can literally track the eye lid of my cat so when he closes and opens his eyes and is running around I get it EVERY single time.

Some people said the CF card was a bad deal and it needed to be C fast. Honestly, for this series of camera I can't imagine needing anything more than this.

The 4k got a bad wrap. That makes sense for hybrid shooters who MOSTLY shoot video and sometimes do photography. But for hybrid shooters who MOSTLY do photography but also do some videos, it's awesome. Yes, it takes a 256GB card for an hour of footage but those of us who are photographers primarily are only taking small video clips. Maybe 15 minute YouTube videos.

Crop factor was worth it. We got the full sensor readout at 4k, the A7Rii does 4k at full frame, yet no one shoots it at 4k with full frame, they shoot it in crop mode, because if they shoot it in full frame it's not as sharp, alias and moire, etc.

MJpepg, another good move, the reason I say this, 4k still over heats in a lot of cameras that have large sensors, with MJpeg the computer doesn't have to do much work because it isn't being compressed very much. Doesn't over heat. Extremely sharp, no artifacts. It wouldn't be worth it if you were a videographer but hybrid stills shooter, it's just not that big of a deal.

1080p is nice as sharp now, we even have 60FPS, with Canon colors. On top of all of that, Dual Pixel AF.... In my opinion Dual Pixel AF is a game changer. I thought I would only use it for Landscape and video, however I find myself using it for photo a ton.

Customized Q screen.... Nothing more needs to be said here.

Anti Flickr, built in time lapse and bulb timer, as well as time lapse in video if you prefer that. In the past I desired to do more time lapse but did not because I would find myself in a good location and I was too lazy to hook up the remote, change the batteries in it, etc.

Wifi... Even though I shoot Raw I get a full JPEG preview on my iPad at 13 inches (iPad Pro) the back of the screen can trick you a lot of times, good to have the iPad at photoshoots. (good to hook the iPad to the tripod with an arm)

It's just more fun to use. I think that's because it's more snappy and customizable as well as you feel like you really can get any moment without having to put an extreme amount of effort into it like before. (Especially if you had the 6D or 5D Mark ii.)

More megapixels, so there is finer smaller pixels. High ISO has a small film grain look to it instead of color noise. 30 Megapixels is perfect. Anymore than that and you start to have to worry about shutter speed more if you want sharpness at 1:1. I experienced that when I owned the A7R. Especially with no IS on the lenses or in camera.

Well that's my rant/review. I think this camera is seriously underrated. When I bought it, I knew I was getting an upgrade but I honestly did not expect this much of an upgrade. Because of all of the things I read online I just assumed it was a slightly better 5D Mark iii which I was okay with. That's not the case. It doesn't feel like the same camera while using it.

If there were typo's, get over it. This was long and I typed it fast!

Also, if you're wondering about exposure recovery, although I tend to agree with DXOMark's numbers, if you download a Raw file from the Nikon D5 that is 5 stops under exposed and try to recover it, well it looks horrible. The 5D Mark IV looks not only useable but depending on the lighting you can't even tell. In bad lighting you can tell because of the colors.

Shadow performance.... I owned the A7R and shot with it a year doing Landscapes. I really don't think there is a difference. If there is, it has to be so slight that you got to really be anal about things to care..... kinda like those that might think to themselves.... why did he say rant over and keep going. Because it's a rant.

Peace....
Click to expand...
I've read that RAW files look very different in LR and require more work. is that true?
 
Thank you. Now I'm super-pumped to get mine. Just need to save a bit more. Maybe in April!

Had been debating holding back pending seeing what else is released in the next year or so (6D2? 5Ds2?) but really this looks like a winner. Those other possible cameras might be better in some ways but it's hard to imagine they'll be better overall packages.

Now if I get this I had better not be tempted to get the 5D5. I can afford this stuff on occasion but getting every generation would have to be seen as foolish (for my use and income). Fortunately I think the only conceivable 5D5 upgrade that would tempt me is global shutter. Maybe FF 4K but that appears to not be in the cards for the 5D line.
 
Jonathan Brady said:
MaxCh said:
I've read that RAW files look very different in LR and require more work. is that true?
Click to expand...
Different than what? A jpg? A different program? Or...?
Click to expand...
Perhaps he meant different from 5DIII. I would agree with that but I feel that the opposite is actually true. I use C1 as my primary RAW converter and I would say that the 5DIV RAW files need less work than those from 5DIII. That is just me talking about my architectural work though. Others might have different experience in their line of work.
 
BlueCosmo5050 said:
*This post was written in pure rant fashion. Fast typing and no spell checking. Just a pure stream of consciousness. Read at your own discretion.*

I'm not one to hype, even if I'm excited about a new camera. Now that I've owned the camera I know for a fact that the people that felt like the 5D Mark IV wasn't a good enough upgrade were completely out of their minds.

The hit rate is insane. Tracking fast moving small eyes in almost pure darkness, NOT using the center focus point. The shadow recovery, amazing.

I spent the most time out of any camera with the 5D Mark iii. I had the 5D Mark ii before that. Went to the Sony A7R, came back to Canon and got the 6D. When I had the 5D Mark iii, I wasn't all that excited about tracking. I'm not a wild life guy. I just dealt with having 1 in 9 shots in focus. So far, and I'm not over exaggerating, I have not had a single missed shot. All sharp at 1:1. Baring in mind that most of my test have been done at night and in dark rooms, (as it's hard to get an off day sometimes at work.)

The focusing system is obviously not the same as the 5D Mark iii, it doesn't even feel close. But because they both have the same amount of focus points, on paper that looks like it's not a huge upgrade. To me, it seems like a huge upgrade. It's not that it just goes down in lower light with -3EV points, it seems to be more intelligent. It's as if it knows what I'm thinking.

There definitely are some software/hardware things with the focus system going on that most of us wouldn't understand on a spec sheet that really can't be experienced unless you actually shoot with the camera.

I expected it to be much heavier than my 6D, I didn't even notice the difference. Of course it is heavier, but with a 24-70 2.8 ii on, it feels about the same in real world use.

I was surprised that the metering system seems to be extremely intelligent. The 5D Mark iii and 6D constantly under exposed, the 5D Mark IV seems to be reading a lot more information at a faster speed as well.

I have gotten shots that were not possible for me before. Most of them have been of family and pets as I have not done a job with it yet, but to capture my family or pets in those positions before I had to use an iPhone. The 6D would be way too big of a hassle to try to get the shot and by the time I got close the scene would be over. The 5D Mark iii would be a little easier but it's not snappy enough so you don't feel this need to get it and you just take out your cell phone instead. Now I finally actually pull out the big camera for regular special moments that only I will see for personal use. Before, the DSLR was only for professional jobs or serious shots that were quite stationary. Such as a pet laying down STILL. The pet now can move freely, I can literally track the eye lid of my cat so when he closes and opens his eyes and is running around I get it EVERY single time.

Some people said the CF card was a bad deal and it needed to be C fast. Honestly, for this series of camera I can't imagine needing anything more than this.

The 4k got a bad wrap. That makes sense for hybrid shooters who MOSTLY shoot video and sometimes do photography. But for hybrid shooters who MOSTLY do photography but also do some videos, it's awesome. Yes, it takes a 256GB card for an hour of footage but those of us who are photographers primarily are only taking small video clips. Maybe 15 minute YouTube videos.

Crop factor was worth it. We got the full sensor readout at 4k, the A7Rii does 4k at full frame, yet no one shoots it at 4k with full frame, they shoot it in crop mode, because if they shoot it in full frame it's not as sharp, alias and moire, etc.

MJpepg, another good move, the reason I say this, 4k still over heats in a lot of cameras that have large sensors, with MJpeg the computer doesn't have to do much work because it isn't being compressed very much. Doesn't over heat. Extremely sharp, no artifacts. It wouldn't be worth it if you were a videographer but hybrid stills shooter, it's just not that big of a deal.

1080p is nice as sharp now, we even have 60FPS, with Canon colors. On top of all of that, Dual Pixel AF.... In my opinion Dual Pixel AF is a game changer. I thought I would only use it for Landscape and video, however I find myself using it for photo a ton.

Customized Q screen.... Nothing more needs to be said here.

Anti Flickr, built in time lapse and bulb timer, as well as time lapse in video if you prefer that. In the past I desired to do more time lapse but did not because I would find myself in a good location and I was too lazy to hook up the remote, change the batteries in it, etc.

Wifi... Even though I shoot Raw I get a full JPEG preview on my iPad at 13 inches (iPad Pro) the back of the screen can trick you a lot of times, good to have the iPad at photoshoots. (good to hook the iPad to the tripod with an arm)

It's just more fun to use. I think that's because it's more snappy and customizable as well as you feel like you really can get any moment without having to put an extreme amount of effort into it like before. (Especially if you had the 6D or 5D Mark ii.)

More megapixels, so there is finer smaller pixels. High ISO has a small film grain look to it instead of color noise. 30 Megapixels is perfect. Anymore than that and you start to have to worry about shutter speed more if you want sharpness at 1:1. I experienced that when I owned the A7R. Especially with no IS on the lenses or in camera.

Well that's my rant/review. I think this camera is seriously underrated. When I bought it, I knew I was getting an upgrade but I honestly did not expect this much of an upgrade. Because of all of the things I read online I just assumed it was a slightly better 5D Mark iii which I was okay with. That's not the case. It doesn't feel like the same camera while using it.

If there were typo's, get over it. This was long and I typed it fast!

Also, if you're wondering about exposure recovery, although I tend to agree with DXOMark's numbers, if you download a Raw file from the Nikon D5 that is 5 stops under exposed and try to recover it, well it looks horrible. The 5D Mark IV looks not only useable but depending on the lighting you can't even tell. In bad lighting you can tell because of the colors.

Shadow performance.... I owned the A7R and shot with it a year doing Landscapes. I really don't think there is a difference. If there is, it has to be so slight that you got to really be anal about things to care..... kinda like those that might think to themselves.... why did he say rant over and keep going. Because it's a rant.

Peace....
Click to expand...
Bravo! My own experience after a month of using it - is very similar. Just want to add another major highlight for me: AWB actually works! This is the first Canon body that I've used where AWB actually makes sense in implementation.


"Photography is therapeutic."
 
LaszloBencze said:
If you don't like the term miraculous, let's just call it utterly astonishing as your latest pictures prove.
Click to expand...
I think about a time when there was no AF.

AF came and then came computational power and artificial intelligence. Cameras can now predict where the subject is likely to be in a given moment. We all take these for granted. But if we think about it deeply, it is miraculous.
 
MaxCh said:
I've read that RAW files look very different in LR and require more work. is that true?
Click to expand...
LR/ACR's default rendering is different for 80D and 5D IV (and is probably for 1DX II) compared to earlier Canon cameras including 5D III. This is similar to what they have been doing with cameras with higher DR (Sony, Nikon etc). This rendering basically has low contrast. Colors look less saturated and sometimes off. Of course, they can be corrected, but it takes longer than what you would get from other converters such as C1.

An example.

Camera JPEG

51b214e696cf48419a5b54e63b1b9d9b.jpg

ACR/LR



4a2712835c8f4117b9097cff7e4d34e5.jpg

CaptureOne

24701c0d8b9f4ea5ae3c404b691ca0a2.jpg

Click on the 'original' and open the pictures in separate tabs. You will see the difference.



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Is anyone finding the ETTL is working better on the 5D4??

I am finding I am getting better exposure than before.
 
George Zip said:
Is anyone finding the ETTL is working better on the 5D4??

I am finding I am getting better exposure than before.
Click to expand...
Yes. However, since I used the 80D (from the 6D before) buying the 5DMIV, I must say I started getting better ETTL exposures since the 80D.
 
Jonathan Brady said:
BlueCosmo5050 said:
I think it's a better move than the 50 megapixels right now, because we still don't have IS on 24-70 2.8's or in body IS. They will need in body IS as they move up the megapixels or else everyone will be on a tripod. 30 is perfect for the current selection of lenses.
Click to expand...
I think it's a different choice. Not necessarily a better choice. I have both the 5Ds and the 5D Mark IV. Sometimes I reach for one, sometimes the other. IS (in-lens or in-body) isn't necessary for pixel-level sharpness if the shutter speed is high enough. I've found that, in-general, for the 5D Mark IV, I shoot like I'm shooting a crop body (so about 1.5x the 1/FL "rule") and with the 5Ds, I shoot at about 2x the 1/FL "rule". There's not an ENORMOUS difference in those shutter speeds to be honest. For a 135mm portrait, we're talking ~ 1/200 vs 1/250 or 1/320. That's only 1/3-2/3 faster shutter speed. And in good light, I'm usually well beyond 1/320 even at ISO 100. So it's not much of an issue.

I shot an entire event on Wednesday night using flash (social gathering at the Ritz Carlton) and was at 1/60 on the 5Ds all night because I had flash. Pixel-perfect results. So really, it's situation dependent and IS is unnecessary quite often.
Click to expand...
I am planning on buying a 5DS, but this thread got me thinking, and you might be the one to answer my question.

Forget video, wifi, touchscreen, dual pixel, or this talk of higher shutter speed nonsense. Mostly meaningless to me.

I like 7fps, and better dynamic range, but not as much as I like 50mp.

So what about their autofocus? I keep seeing the 5DIV is improved, but it is hard to tell how looking at the specs. Slightly more spread to the 61 points and uses all 61 at f8 (maybe). 5DS uses 5 points at f8 which is relevant as I shoot with a 1.4x on the 100-400 ii. 5DIV has digic 6+, 5DS has two digic 6. It looks to me like they use the same tracking and metering system, no? Am I missing anything?

What is you real world difference between the two cameras' af systems? Would I notice at all? I think I am still leaning 5DS as I feel the resolution will outweigh any other benefits for me, unless the af on the 5DIV is noticeably better.
 
I got something from the 5D Mark IV people if you don't know it would do this... I didn't... My gosh this changed everything even more, I can go from one shot to servo with a few cluster to servo with more clusters by doing hardly anything at all this is INSANE.

 
noggin2k1 said:
I'm not too sure if you can relate to this, but 10 minutes in with my 5D IV, and it's completely caught be on the blindside - I'm literally scared of it (in a good way).

I was half expecting the 6D with a few improvements. Absolutely not - it's a complete different beast.

It's going to be a fun few months getting to know it a little better!
Click to expand...
It's not as hard as it looks. Don't let it intimidate you, it's actually gonna be easier than your 6D to get shots.

Watch this trick on the 5D Mark IV. :-D Does this BLOW you away or what? It did me! At first I was switching to servo then switching clusters, Not anymore. I don't really got to do anything... hardly.


As far as the scenario, just put it on general purpose setting for now for tracking. I'd probably prefer the locked on setting but I got it on general purpose and I haven't got anything out of focus yet.

Watch Canon's AF expansion video for the 5D Mark IV, there might be some things you don't now there. Then instead of choosing one, set it up like in the video I posted above.

As far as the comments on locking on eyes, I'm not talking about in DPAF, although I did mention it seems to know where the eye is even if the box is over the face. Even at 2.8.

I'm just doing it with the spot AF. And since the focus spot is smaller it'll get the slit of the eye if one closes the eye.

Last night I got 3 cats going wild and I fired that puppy off at 7FPS, took it back to the computer thinking, "There has to be at least one shot out of focus." Nope! Nailed it!

I'd like to get another off day so I can actually get some day time shots. I haven't even seen what this camera looks like in the day time. I had Monday off but by the time I woke up the sun was going down, (I work nights.) Thursday I'm gonna wake up early.

I love HDR landscapes and I haven't gotten to go get one yet.
 
dreamlander said:
I am planning on buying a 5DS, but this thread got me thinking, and you might be the one to answer my question.

Forget video, wifi, touchscreen, dual pixel, or this talk of higher shutter speed nonsense. Mostly meaningless to me.

I like 7fps, and better dynamic range, but not as much as I like 50mp.

So what about their autofocus? I keep seeing the 5DIV is improved, but it is hard to tell how looking at the specs. Slightly more spread to the 61 points and uses all 61 at f8 (maybe). 5DS uses 5 points at f8 which is relevant as I shoot with a 1.4x on the 100-400 ii. 5DIV has digic 6+, 5DS has two digic 6. It looks to me like they use the same tracking and metering system, no? Am I missing anything?

What is you real world difference between the two cameras' af systems? Would I notice at all? I think I am still leaning 5DS as I feel the resolution will outweigh any other benefits for me, unless the af on the 5DIV is noticeably better.
Click to expand...
 
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