Bottom line

Matthew Cromer · Aug 21, 2003

The 828 is a top-line, excellent built, professional-looking camera, among the very best in its class. Image quality remains to be seen, but should be very very good at lower ISOs. The lens (despite what some ignorant wags from CSF are saying) will almost certainly be top-notch in almost every way (with a bit of easily-correctable distortions at full WA and tele -- although perhaps the camera / RAW convertor will handle that for us).

The Digital Rebel is a chintzy plasticky dumbed-down SLR with nice electronics. I don't care for the painted silvery finish on the plastic. It should be capable of excellent image quality at a range of ISOs when coupled with excellent glass.

Personally I wouldn't consider buying a Digital Rebel when I could get a well-made SLR for a couple hundred more. But YMMV.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

bauerman · Aug 21, 2003

Matthew Cromer said:
The 828 is a top-line, excellent built, professional-looking
camera, among the very best in its class. Image quality remains to
be seen, but should be very very good at lower ISOs. The lens
(despite what some ignorant wags from CSF are saying) will almost
certainly be top-notch in almost every way (with a bit of
easily-correctable distortions at full WA and tele -- although
perhaps the camera / RAW convertor will handle that for us).

The Digital Rebel is a chintzy plasticky dumbed-down SLR with nice
electronics. I don't care for the painted silvery finish on the
plastic. It should be capable of excellent image quality at a
range of ISOs when coupled with excellent glass.

Personally I wouldn't consider buying a Digital Rebel when I could
get a well-made SLR for a couple hundred more. But YMMV.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

I find it completely hilarious that people will not even LOOK at a camera because the body is made of plastic. I find it hard to believe that if someone is even remotely interested in picture quality that the composition of the body would even be in the top ten criteria for purchasing that camera!!!! The 300d may be made of plastic, but I can almost guarantee you that it will produce better photos than the 828 in most situations. The senor (which actually matters!) is far and away better than what Sony is offering. Period.

People are going to let plastic keep them from some VERY good pictures!

Bauerman
--
http://www.bauerman.Galleries.photoshare.co.nz

Stever46789 · Aug 21, 2003

I'm the last to choose sides since neither one are out yet, but to me plastic is a plus...

It's going to lighten the camera and if it's decent ABS it will withstand impact better than metal.

Just my 2 cents. I just hope folks choose based on picture quality and what their needs are.

Stever

bauerman said:
Matthew Cromer said:

The 828 is a top-line, excellent built, professional-looking
camera, among the very best in its class. Image quality remains to
be seen, but should be very very good at lower ISOs. The lens
(despite what some ignorant wags from CSF are saying) will almost
certainly be top-notch in almost every way (with a bit of
easily-correctable distortions at full WA and tele -- although
perhaps the camera / RAW convertor will handle that for us).

The Digital Rebel is a chintzy plasticky dumbed-down SLR with nice
electronics. I don't care for the painted silvery finish on the
plastic. It should be capable of excellent image quality at a
range of ISOs when coupled with excellent glass.

Personally I wouldn't consider buying a Digital Rebel when I could
get a well-made SLR for a couple hundred more. But YMMV.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

Click to expand...

I find it completely hilarious that people will not even LOOK at a
camera because the body is made of plastic. I find it hard to
believe that if someone is even remotely interested in picture
quality that the composition of the body would even be in the top
ten criteria for purchasing that camera!!!! The 300d may be made
of plastic, but I can almost guarantee you that it will produce
better photos than the 828 in most situations. The senor (which
actually matters!) is far and away better than what Sony is
offering. Period.

People are going to let plastic keep them from some VERY good
pictures!

Bauerman
--
http://www.bauerman.Galleries.photoshare.co.nz

--
...they don't qualify as 'galleries' but http://www.fotki.com/pukrat

digital-freak · Aug 21, 2003

I wouldn't let the fact that it has a plastic body stop me from buying it. If it was capable of great images and I needed the felexability of the interchangable lens I would Consider it, Although for a few hundred more You can get the 10D, So I would compare the two.
--
Mark
http://adigitalfreak.deviantart.com/gallery/
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Digital ~ Defuser ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=5406554

Ulysses · Aug 21, 2003

I care less about the bod than I do about a couple of other things.

The 300D is what it is. It's a great way to get into an SLR body for relatively low cost. But at the same time, it's a KISS camera, with many of the sacrifices in performance and function that this entails.

For me, the notable ones are the lack of metering and focusing options. Or rather, the fact that the camera takes these over so readily. It's going to be a challenge to customize the camera for what you want to do.

Hopefully the camera is smarter than it sounds and will make good decisions.

bauerman said:
I find it completely hilarious that people will not even LOOK at a
camera because the body is made of plastic. I find it hard to
believe that if someone is even remotely interested in picture
quality that the composition of the body would even be in the top
ten criteria for purchasing that camera!!!! The 300d may be made
of plastic, but I can almost guarantee you that it will produce
better photos than the 828 in most situations. The senor (which
actually matters!) is far and away better than what Sony is
offering. Period.

People are going to let plastic keep them from some VERY good
pictures!

--

Ulysses

Franklin · Aug 21, 2003

bauerman said:
People are going to let plastic keep them from some VERY good
pictures!

People have made up their mind based on their brand loyalty. Even if 300D is made of metal, they will find other reason to reject it. Who cares about picture quality! Don't you have to take picture to see picture quality? :=))

Matthew Cromer · Aug 21, 2003

And the cheap plastic that the rebels are made of will not withstand abuse in the field.

I've banged and bashed my 717 against hard objects (and dropped my 707 twice in the field on pavement) with no damage. I have very little doubt what would happen to the Rebel under those conditions.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

Matthew Cromer · Aug 21, 2003

Yes, the Canon folks definitely have their minds made up. I agree completely.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

Matthew Cromer · Aug 21, 2003

I saw the Rebel 2000 a couple days ago and played with it a bit. This body looks almost exactly the same -- cheap and sub-par.

I won't drop a G on a camera like this. Sure, I would pay $300 for it, but not a thousand bucks on something that seems unlikely to survive a 1' drop onto concrete.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

bauerman · Aug 21, 2003

Matthew Cromer said:
I saw the Rebel 2000 a couple days ago and played with it a bit.
This body looks almost exactly the same -- cheap and sub-par.

I won't drop a G on a camera like this. Sure, I would pay $300 for
it, but not a thousand bucks on something that seems unlikely to
survive a 1' drop onto concrete.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

Regardless of what the body is made of - if you drop it you are going to run the risk of riuning the functionality. Plastic or no plastic. I just dont see body composition as a real big factor. I have ruined a metal film camera in my time - metal bodies do not mean they are impervious to damage. Picture quality is number one. I think that we get to hung up on packaging - when it means very little.

Bauerman
--
http://www.bauerman.Galleries.photoshare.co.nz

Franklin · Aug 21, 2003

Matthew Cromer said:
Yes, the Canon folks definitely have their minds made up. I agree
completely.

No question, some have. Can't blame them so far canon has delivered on everything it promised, from low end to high end. Have you see the new A80, if you don't need an external flash and the stature of G3/5. It make a perfect carry around camera.

Don't get me wrong, Sonys are fine cameras, you prove it with the wonderful pictures you have taken. Sony is also smart in being the best in the market they play in. 828 and digital rebel are just different cameras targeted to different needs. For people who like SLRs and are put off by the high price, no doubt digital rebel is wonderful news. Itl offer similiar image quality to 10D , most of 10D's functions. It is small and light in DSLR standards. On the other hand, there are people who like the all-in-one design. then A1 and 828 are perfect for them. My only reservation against 828 is noise. If sony can delivery similiar or better noise characteristic in 828 to 717, Kudos to them. It is no small feat in itself. Frankly, I don't need 8mp. But I can alway take 5mp pictures to have even better images.

Matthew Cromer said:
--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

1ofUs! · Aug 21, 2003

Matthew Cromer said:
The 828 is a top-line, excellent built, professional-looking
camera, among the very best in its class. Image quality remains to
be seen, but should be very very good at lower ISOs. The lens
(despite what some ignorant wags from CSF are saying) will almost
certainly be top-notch in almost every way (with a bit of
easily-correctable distortions at full WA and tele -- although
perhaps the camera / RAW convertor will handle that for us).

The Digital Rebel is a chintzy plasticky dumbed-down SLR with nice
electronics. I don't care for the painted silvery finish on the
plastic. It should be capable of excellent image quality at a
range of ISOs when coupled with excellent glass.

Personally I wouldn't consider buying a Digital Rebel when I could
get a well-made SLR for a couple hundred more. But YMMV.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must be wrong...

timpdx · Aug 21, 2003

Of course build quality is an issue, plastic doesn't bother me, my "plasticy" Mamiya 645E took a fall from a tripod recently and survived but a slip and fall many years ago with a AE1 metal body did great internal damage. If you drop the D-Rebel, will the innards stay intact with body damage or will the electronics be ruined but the body look o.k.?

--
http://www.pixelmap.com

1ofUs! · Aug 21, 2003

After using a 10d plastic body cams just seem really cheap to the feel. Sorry, but I like the solid feel and resilience of a well made camera body. Cindy

bauerman said:
I find it completely hilarious that people will not even LOOK at a
camera because the body is made of plastic. I find it hard to
believe that if someone is even remotely interested in picture
quality that the composition of the body would even be in the top
ten criteria for purchasing that camera!!!! The 300d may be made
of plastic, but I can almost guarantee you that it will produce
better photos than the 828 in most situations. The senor (which
actually matters!) is far and away better than what Sony is
offering. Period.

Yes, I agree the 300D will take great pics. That isn't the issue with the body though.

Cindy
--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must be wrong...

bauerman · Aug 21, 2003

A completely superior sensor housed in a plastic body - 300D

A tiny, high noise sensor housed in a somewhat metal body - 828

If we are into photogrpahy and picture quality rather than asthetics - the choice is obvious.

Bauerman

pdqgp · Aug 21, 2003

All do respect, but no camera should go through the abuse you mention. I wouldn't say that's what any manufacturer is designing around either. heck, if you drop it twice and have issues...you don't deserve to use a camera in my book

Besides, the Rebel is not a pro-intended camera, and no one I know with cameras has ever physically broke one in such a way that many cameras would have survived anyway. One fell off a cheap tripod and bent the lens, and the other was damaged when it was in shipping....metal and it was bent.

Matthew Cromer said:
And the cheap plastic that the rebels are made of will not
withstand abuse in the field.

I've banged and bashed my 717 against hard objects (and dropped my
707 twice in the field on pavement) with no damage. I have very
little doubt what would happen to the Rebel under those conditions.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

--
-tim

Canon 1 0 D, 24-70mm/f2.8 L-Series, 75-300mm/f4-5.6 IS, 35mm f2, Canon 4 2 0EX Speedlight
Sony 7 1 7, Nikon 9 9 5 & Konica KD-4 0 0 Z
Accessories....tons of course
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

1ofUs! · Aug 21, 2003

bauerman said:
A completely superior sensor housed in a plastic body - 300D

A tiny, high noise sensor housed in a somewhat metal body - 828

If we are into photogrpahy and picture quality rather than
asthetics - the choice is obvious.

Bauerman

I guess I pretty much agreed with Mathew's assessment of the 828 and the 300D as individuals and I didn't feel he was really comparing the two directly. If it came down to a choice between the 300D and the 10D - I don't think the price difference makes up for the build quality (for me) along with the reduced features, and I agree with Mathew on that. Comparing the 300D to the 828 is more difficult as you point out due to real differences, pros and cons, between the two types of cameras. But if the 828 really goes for $1200 - then again - you are back close to the price of a 10d body . . . I think both the 300d and the 828 are over priced.

Cindy

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must be wrong...

Rodger Cooley · Aug 21, 2003

I agree cindy, no matter what your choice of these two cams, they abe both overpriced. Even though I lean toward the f828 for my needs, I think it is the more overpriced of the two.

1ofUs! said:
bauerman said:

A completely superior sensor housed in a plastic body - 300D

A tiny, high noise sensor housed in a somewhat metal body - 828

If we are into photogrpahy and picture quality rather than
asthetics - the choice is obvious.

Bauerman

Click to expand...

I guess I pretty much agreed with Mathew's assessment of the 828
and the 300D as individuals and I didn't feel he was really
comparing the two directly. If it came down to a choice between
the 300D and the 10D - I don't think the price difference makes up
for the build quality (for me) along with the reduced features, and
I agree with Mathew on that. Comparing the 300D to the 828 is more
difficult as you point out due to real differences, pros and cons,
between the two types of cameras. But if the 828 really goes for
$1200 - then again - you are back close to the price of a 10d body
. . . I think both the 300d and the 828 are over priced.

Cindy

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must
be wrong...

--
Rodger
f707(deceased), f717, tcon14b, mcon 35, s9000, sunpak 383

Rodger Cooley · Aug 21, 2003

Rodger Cooley said:
1ofUs! said:

bauerman said:

A completely superior sensor housed in a plastic body - 300D

A tiny, high noise sensor housed in a somewhat metal body - 828

If we are into photogrpahy and picture quality rather than
asthetics - the choice is obvious.

Bauerman

Click to expand...

I guess I pretty much agreed with Mathew's assessment of the 828
and the 300D as individuals and I didn't feel he was really
comparing the two directly. If it came down to a choice between
the 300D and the 10D - I don't think the price difference makes up
for the build quality (for me) along with the reduced features, and
I agree with Mathew on that. Comparing the 300D to the 828 is more
difficult as you point out due to real differences, pros and cons,
between the two types of cameras. But if the 828 really goes for
$1200 - then again - you are back close to the price of a 10d body
. . . I think both the 300d and the 828 are over priced.

Cindy

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must
be wrong...

Click to expand...

--
Rodger
f707(deceased), f717, tcon14b, mcon 35, s9000, sunpak 383

--
Rodger
f707(deceased), f717, tcon14b, mcon 35, s9000, sunpak 383

1ofUs! · Aug 21, 2003

As you have in your signature line (f707(deceased)). It actually turns on, focuses and takes pics, but NONE of the controls or menus work and you can't change modes or format a stick or anything. Also the flash pops up and fires at random. She is getting my 10d . . . I waited until the 828 came out and at first she was really excited about it, but after reading in here and comtemplating, decided it wasn't what she needed to go on to (photography) college with. So it will be awhile before I get a new cam but have to make decisions - another 10d, an 828, a used 717 when everyone dumps them for an 828 upgrade? Would love to own both types but that money thing . . .lol.

Cindy

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must be wrong...

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