Considering 10D as replacement of G3

Søren Theilgaard · Aug 18, 2003

I currently have a PowerShot G3, which actually has some nice features, and has pleased me well.

I'm considering to buy a 10D because I want to explore the photographing techniques even further.

I have, off course, read a lot of the threads about the focus issues, so please do not start that in this thread, when answering my questions.

1) My G3 often spends too long time to focus on a moving subject. It's in fact impossible to ever get a sharp lock on a subject moving (walking) towards me.

How much faster is the 10D compared to this?

I know the 10D has shutter release priority, forcing it to take the shot when the button is fully pressed, but how much faster is it to lock the focus?

2) I'm considering the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens, as a lot of threads in the Lens Talk forum is recommending this as a great alround lens.

From the focus discussions it appears that certain lenses contribute more to the focus issue than others. In that respect how is this lens?

How is this lens compared to the G3 (please do not flame me for this question). I understand it will zoom further in (5x it appears), but will it also zoom further out? (The G3 is 7.2-28-8).

Even though the lens is f/3.5-5.6, will it allow me to take pictures with less DOF than the G3, which has f/2.0?

What macro lens would you suggest to this lens (if possible)? I like to photograph animals in the zoo or in the wild (as wild as it curretnly gets in Denmark) (I currently use the lens converter with 1.75x zoom extender on the G3).

Still learning the basics...
--
Søren Theilgaard

howyroark · Aug 18, 2003

Søren Theilgaard said:
I currently have a PowerShot G3, which actually has some nice
features, and has pleased me well.

I'm considering to buy a 10D because I want to explore the
photographing techniques even further.

I have, off course, read a lot of the threads about the focus
issues, so please do not start that in this thread, when answering
my questions.

1) My G3 often spends too long time to focus on a moving subject.
It's in fact impossible to ever get a sharp lock on a subject
moving (walking) towards me.

How much faster is the 10D compared to this?

Much. I'm also considering the 10D as an upgrade from my Sony S85 and from reading here and testing in store, 10D is almost indistinguishable from a film SLR when it comes to lag...in other words, there is very little in most situations

Søren Theilgaard said:
I know the 10D has shutter release priority, forcing it to take the
shot when the button is fully pressed, but how much faster is it to
lock the focus?

Much faster...check http://www.imaging-resource.com/ to see exact lag times of different cameras. Easy comparison.

Søren Theilgaard said:
2) I'm considering the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens, as a lot of
threads in the Lens Talk forum is recommending this as a great
alround lens.

From the focus discussions it appears that certain lenses
contribute more to the focus issue than others. In that respect how
is this lens?

Heard lots of good things about this lens. Do a search in the lens forum to hear good things about it.

Søren Theilgaard said:
How is this lens compared to the G3 (please do not flame me for
this question). I understand it will zoom further in (5x it
appears), but will it also zoom further out? (The G3 is 7.2-28-8).

Even though the lens is f/3.5-5.6, will it allow me to take
pictures with less DOF than the G3, which has f/2.0?

A greater zoom allows you more control over depth of field. Also remember that with a 1.6 crop factor on the 10D, the 28-135 is really 45-216 which means it is a 6X zoom. The G3 is equivalent of 35mm at its widest angle, so the 28-135 won't give you as wide a field of view.

Søren Theilgaard said:
What macro lens would you suggest to this lens (if possible)? I
like to photograph animals in the zoo or in the wild (as wild as it
curretnly gets in Denmark) (I currently use the lens converter with
1.75x zoom extender on the G3).

Still learning the basics...
--
Søren Theilgaard

--
Matt

Juli Valley · Aug 18, 2003

Keep in mind that you will need to do more post processing with the 10D than on your G3. There's almost no shutter lag. I use a 100-400L lens for the zoo, but if that's too expensive, you might want to get the 75-300IS lens. The DOF is certainly shallower. You can blur backgrounds at wider apertures with no problem. My first zoo gallery is with the 75-300IS lens. The others are done with longer, more expensive L lenses. http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/zoo

Robert D. McGee · Aug 18, 2003

Søren Theilgaard said:
I currently have a PowerShot G3, which actually has some nice
features, and has pleased me well.

I'm considering to buy a 10D because I want to explore the
photographing techniques even further.

I have, off course, read a lot of the threads about the focus
issues, so please do not start that in this thread, when answering
my questions.

1) My G3 often spends too long time to focus on a moving subject.
It's in fact impossible to ever get a sharp lock on a subject
moving (walking) towards me.

Let me qualify myself. I have a G3 and a few months ago bought a 10D. I will keep my G3 for those few times when I need a compact camera.

The 10D has very fast "lock focus". You might want to look at this:

http://www.pbase.com/image/19766697

This type of image was VERY difficult with the G3 and is a "piece of cake" with the 10D.

Søren Theilgaard said:
How much faster is the 10D compared to this?

MUCH, MUCH faster!!

Søren Theilgaard said:
I know the 10D has shutter release priority, forcing it to take the
shot when the button is fully pressed, but how much faster is it to
lock the focus?

2) I'm considering the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens, as a lot of
threads in the Lens Talk forum is recommending this as a great
alround lens.

I do NOT have this lens but if I did not already have the 28x105 f/3.5-f/4.5 I would probably choose it for my "walk around" lens.

Søren Theilgaard said:
From the focus discussions it appears that certain lenses
contribute more to the focus issue than others. In that respect how
is this lens?

The only reports I have heard just stated that it is a bit slower than a faster lens (i.e. f/1.8). Not a problem, tho'.

Søren Theilgaard said:
How is this lens compared to the G3 (please do not flame me for
this question). I understand it will zoom further in (5x it
appears), but will it also zoom further out? (The G3 is 7.2-28-8).

I believe the G3 equivalent is 28mm - 140 mm. So, they are quite close in range.

Søren Theilgaard said:
Even though the lens is f/3.5-5.6, will it allow me to take
pictures with less DOF than the G3, which has f/2.0?

I haven't done the math, but I would think so. Of course, ultimately, you can purchase lenses that will do everything you could hope for ( have deep pockets, tho"

> )).

Søren Theilgaard said:
What macro lens would you suggest to this lens (if possible)? I
like to photograph animals in the zoo or in the wild (as wild as it
curretnly gets in Denmark) (I currently use the lens converter with
1.75x zoom extender on the G3).

I have the Canon 100 f/2.8 USM Macro and am quite happy with it. However, it is only a rather short telephoto. I use a 70-200 f/2.8 IS USM Canon lens at the zoo. In fact, sometimes a longer lens would be nice:

http://www.pbase.com/dale53/cincinnati_zoo

Søren Theilgaard said:
Still learning the basics...

Aren't we all!!

> )).

Dale53

Olga Johnson · Aug 18, 2003

Søren Theilgaard said:
1) My G3 often spends too long time to focus on a moving subject.
It's in fact impossible to ever get a sharp lock on a subject
moving (walking) towards me.

How much faster is the 10D compared to this?

Hard to say. It is faster but it will also depend on how fast the subject is walking towards you, what lens you're using, and whether the subject is moving too fast coming too close for the lens to reach.

Søren Theilgaard said:
I know the 10D has shutter release priority, forcing it to take the
shot when the button is fully pressed, but how much faster is it to
lock the focus?

Depends on the lens. As a rule, again it's faster all around. Some lenses are much faster than others.

Søren Theilgaard said:
2) I'm considering the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens, as a lot of
threads in the Lens Talk forum is recommending this as a great
alround lens.

From the focus discussions it appears that certain lenses
contribute more to the focus issue than others. In that respect how
is this lens?

It's excellent. If using the IS, you will note a slight hesitation but it's just the image stabilizing. Still faster than the G3.

Søren Theilgaard said:
How is this lens compared to the G3 (please do not flame me for
this question). I understand it will zoom further in (5x it
appears), but will it also zoom further out? (The G3 is 7.2-28-8).

Are you asking how wide it is compared to the G3? If so, it's not as wide as the G3.

Søren Theilgaard said:
Even though the lens is f/3.5-5.6, will it allow me to take
pictures with less DOF than the G3, which has f/2.0?

With normal pictures, the G3's f2 will give you the same DOF as the 10D's f8 (around 4x more). So the 10D will definitely have much less DOF than the G3.

Søren Theilgaard said:
What macro lens would you suggest to this lens (if possible)?

There are quite a few options. I have the Canon 100mm macro lens.

Søren Theilgaard said:
I
like to photograph animals in the zoo or in the wild (as wild as it
curretnly gets in Denmark) (I currently use the lens converter with
1.75x zoom extender on the G3).

There are quite a few options that reach much further than that with the 10D depending on what you want to spend.

Olga

c.hammett · Aug 18, 2003

I have both the G3 and the 10D. I love them both for different reasons. The G3 is now my "backup" camera for when I travel with the 10D. I've tried to answer some (but not all) of the questions you posted according to my experience with both cameras.

Søren Theilgaard said:
1) My G3 often spends too long time to focus on a moving subject.
It's in fact impossible to ever get a sharp lock on a subject
moving (walking) towards me.

How much faster is the 10D compared to this?

TONS ...no shutter lag to speak of. As far as I'm concerned, it operates and responds like my Canon Elan film cameras.

Søren Theilgaard said:
I know the 10D has shutter release priority, forcing it to take the
shot when the button is fully pressed, but how much faster is it to
lock the focus?

Just about like my Elans. No problems at all.

Søren Theilgaard said:
2) I'm considering the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens, as a lot of
threads in the Lens Talk forum is recommending this as a great
alround lens.

I have this lens and it is my favorite "walk around lens". It is heavier than I would like, as I'm a small woman, but it works well in low light due to the IS. I also have the 28-105 USM, and like it especially for landscapes and portraits where the light is good, but the 28-135 IS is my favorite.

Søren Theilgaard said:
What macro lens would you suggest to this lens (if possible)? I
like to photograph animals in the zoo or in the wild (as wild as it
curretnly gets in Denmark) (I currently use the lens converter with
1.75x zoom extender on the G3).

I have taken my 28-105 USM and my 75-300 IS with my film cameras to Kenya/Tanzania two times. (Didn't have a digital camera at the time). Both were invaluable. I used the 28-105 extensively for landscapes and the 75-300 was perfect about 95% of the time for animals. On the very few times that it didn't have enough "reach", I attached a 1.7X converter to it and got great shots. (I'll be flamed by the purists for that, but sorry, it worked for me!) I used a Promaster 1.7X. The 1.4X didn't add enough reach, and the 2.0X cut too much light.

Søren Theilgaard said:
Still learning the basics...

Aren't we all!
-
Ranger

c.hammett · Aug 18, 2003

The 75-300 IS is not a good "bird lens" if you are into bird photography. Not enough reach to get the small birds at a distance but great for the bigger animals.

c.hammett said:
-
Ranger

--
Ranger

Søren Theilgaard · Aug 18, 2003

This has really given me just want I wanted to hear, thank you!

I can't wait to get my hands on the 10D...

I do not plan on getting rid of the G3, BTW.
--
Søren Theilgaard

c.hammett · Aug 18, 2003

Søren Theilgaard said:
This has really given me just want I wanted to hear, thank you!

I can't wait to get my hands on the 10D...

I do not plan on getting rid of the G3, BTW.
--
Søren Theilgaard

--Yes, by all means keep it. I don't like traveling with just one camera, as I've had my film cameras die on me on two occasions where I couldn't get repair or replacement parts. I think the G3 is an excellent backup camera for the 10 D because it uses the same battery, and the battery charger for the 10D is a LOT smaller and lighter weight than the one that came with my G3. Now you will have two interchangeable batteries!
Ranger

Jim Lewis · Aug 18, 2003

Søren:

I am considering the same move. I have the 28-135 mm lens for my Elan IIE, but also have a 20-35 F3.5-4.5 which I will use for wide-angle work. It has considerable barrel distortion, but I am hoping that the 1.6 factor will minimize it. If not, I also have a plug-in that corrects for barrel distortion and will use it as a work-around until I have the funds for a better solution.

Good luck, and let me know how it goes.

--
Jim Lewis
http://www.pbase.com/pdx_photoman
http://www.jimlewis.info
Canon G2, Elan IIE, FS4000US, Photoshop 7, Epson 2200

Steven Yau · Aug 18, 2003

Same here, the G2 serves me well but I am ready for the 10D. I only have a 50/1.8 with my Elan 7 but will consider a 24-85 soon.

I am keeping my G2, can't believe it is almost two years old.

--
Steve
http://www.pbase.com/steveyau/

Jim Lewis said:
Søren:

I am considering the same move. I have the 28-135 mm lens for my
Elan IIE, but also have a 20-35 F3.5-4.5 which I will use for
wide-angle work. It has considerable barrel distortion, but I am
hoping that the 1.6 factor will minimize it. If not, I also have a
plug-in that corrects for barrel distortion and will use it as a
work-around until I have the funds for a better solution.

Good luck, and let me know how it goes.

--
Jim Lewis
http://www.pbase.com/pdx_photoman
http://www.jimlewis.info
Canon G2, Elan IIE, FS4000US, Photoshop 7, Epson 2200

DigialPowerShot · Aug 18, 2003

Søren Theilgaard said:
I currently have a PowerShot G3, which actually has some nice
features, and has pleased me well.

I'm considering to buy a 10D because I want to explore the
photographing techniques even further.

I have, off course, read a lot of the threads about the focus
issues, so please do not start that in this thread, when answering
my questions.

1) My G3 often spends too long time to focus on a moving subject.
It's in fact impossible to ever get a sharp lock on a subject
moving (walking) towards me.

How much faster is the 10D compared to this?

I know the 10D has shutter release priority, forcing it to take the
shot when the button is fully pressed, but how much faster is it to
lock the focus?

2) I'm considering the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens, as a lot of
threads in the Lens Talk forum is recommending this as a great
alround lens.

From the focus discussions it appears that certain lenses
contribute more to the focus issue than others. In that respect how
is this lens?

How is this lens compared to the G3 (please do not flame me for
this question). I understand it will zoom further in (5x it
appears), but will it also zoom further out? (The G3 is 7.2-28-8).

Even though the lens is f/3.5-5.6, will it allow me to take
pictures with less DOF than the G3, which has f/2.0?

What macro lens would you suggest to this lens (if possible)? I
like to photograph animals in the zoo or in the wild (as wild as it
curretnly gets in Denmark) (I currently use the lens converter with
1.75x zoom extender on the G3).

Still learning the basics...
--
Søren Theilgaard

Aaron Becker · Aug 18, 2003

Canon is rumored to be announcing a new "Digital Rebel" on Aug. 20th. If you are just an amutuer like me this might be a better (at least cheaper) alternative.

Seculation info is it will have the same 6.3 MP sensor as the 10D, will come bundled with two lenses covering 28-200, and listed at $1179.

I hope it's as good as it sounds!

Søren Theilgaard said:
I currently have a PowerShot G3, which actually has some nice
features, and has pleased me well.

I'm considering to buy a 10D because I want to explore the
photographing techniques even further.

I have, off course, read a lot of the threads about the focus
issues, so please do not start that in this thread, when answering
my questions.

1) My G3 often spends too long time to focus on a moving subject.
It's in fact impossible to ever get a sharp lock on a subject
moving (walking) towards me.

How much faster is the 10D compared to this?

I know the 10D has shutter release priority, forcing it to take the
shot when the button is fully pressed, but how much faster is it to
lock the focus?

2) I'm considering the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens, as a lot of
threads in the Lens Talk forum is recommending this as a great
alround lens.

From the focus discussions it appears that certain lenses
contribute more to the focus issue than others. In that respect how
is this lens?

How is this lens compared to the G3 (please do not flame me for
this question). I understand it will zoom further in (5x it
appears), but will it also zoom further out? (The G3 is 7.2-28-8).

Even though the lens is f/3.5-5.6, will it allow me to take
pictures with less DOF than the G3, which has f/2.0?

What macro lens would you suggest to this lens (if possible)? I
like to photograph animals in the zoo or in the wild (as wild as it
curretnly gets in Denmark) (I currently use the lens converter with
1.75x zoom extender on the G3).

Still learning the basics...
--
Søren Theilgaard

randy jk · Aug 18, 2003

I moved from a G2 to the 10D about a month ago, primarily since I couldn't get the sports shots I wanted from the G2. The results have been unbelievable and I don't believe my skills have grown that much. You can simply get shots that aren't possible with the G2 - razor sharp, moving subjects, shallow DOF. My best work is coming from a 70-200L 4.0. Even highly cropped shots look great blown up to 8x10.

Dennis Unverferth · Aug 18, 2003

You will love the 10D. I have a G1 and found many of the short comings you mentioned. I like the G1 and my daughter is now using it but I would never go back. I am not sure what Juli means about more post processing. I have found that with the 10D I have had to do very little to get good prints from my 10D where with the G1 it was a real fight.

Tom@JHU · Aug 18, 2003

Juli Valley said:
Keep in mind that you will need to do more post processing with the
10D than on your G3.

I disagree with this. You do not need to do more post processing, just dial up all the paramters to +2 in JPEG mode. Of course if you want to get the most out of your shots, the best option is to shoot RAW and postprocessing, but it doesn't mean you NEED to.

Tom@JHU · Aug 18, 2003

Søren Theilgaard said:
1) My G3 often spends too long time to focus on a moving subject.
It's in fact impossible to ever get a sharp lock on a subject
moving (walking) towards me.

How much faster is the 10D compared to this?

AF is much faster, but you need lenses with USM to match the speed. It will also focus better in low light than P&S. Also, 10D has very good predictive AI Servo mode, which tracks your moving subject quite well.

Søren Theilgaard said:
2) I'm considering the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens, as a lot of
threads in the Lens Talk forum is recommending this as a great
alround lens.

From the focus discussions it appears that certain lenses
contribute more to the focus issue than others. In that respect how
is this lens?

Any slight focus issue will only show up in much faster lens like 50/1.4 or 1.8. At 3.5-5.6, the DOF is sufficiently deep enough that focus should not be an issue. Only camera with really bad focusing problem will show up as such using this lens, but those are few in numbers.

Søren Theilgaard said:
How is this lens compared to the G3 (please do not flame me for
this question). I understand it will zoom further in (5x it
appears), but will it also zoom further out? (The G3 is 7.2-28-8).

This lens has 35mm equivalent of 46-216mm, your G3 I believe have equivalent of 35-140mm. So yes it will give you more zoom, though less wide angle. You will probably need to add a wide angle lens (such as Tokina 19-35-the cheapest, Canon 20-35, Sigma 15-30, or Canon 17-40L-the best).

Søren Theilgaard said:
Even though the lens is f/3.5-5.6, will it allow me to take
pictures with less DOF than the G3, which has f/2.0?

Yes. G3's sensor is roughly 4 times smaller than 10D's. That means the 10D has 4 times shallower DOF at equivalent aperature and focal length. So assuming equal focal length, G2 at F/2 gives roughly as much DOF as 10D gives at F/8. In another word, 10D at F/3.5 will give you much shallower DOF than G3 at F/2. That's the one main advantage of DSLR, you can control DOF much easier from shallow to deep because of the large range of aperature settings (most lens goes from Widest to F22, most telephotoes go down to F32 or even F45)

Søren Theilgaard said:
What macro lens would you suggest to this lens (if possible)? I
like to photograph animals in the zoo or in the wild (as wild as it
curretnly gets in Denmark) (I currently use the lens converter with
1.75x zoom extender on the G3).

The 100mm Macro from Canon or Sigma, their results will blow away anything you've seen with P&S and Macro adaptor.

Søren Theilgaard said:
Still learning the basics...

Have fun.

Søren Theilgaard said:
--
Søren Theilgaard

--

I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

Søren Theilgaard · Aug 19, 2003

Aaron Becker said:
Canon is rumored to be announcing a new "Digital Rebel" on Aug.
20th. If you are just an amutuer like me this might be a better (at
least cheaper) alternative.

Seculation info is it will have the same 6.3 MP sensor as the 10D,
will come bundled with two lenses covering 28-200, and listed at
$1179.

I hope it's as good as it sounds!

It sounds interesting.

Canon seems to offer the same technical image quality in two different wrappings. The CCD in the G3 is the same as the one in the S45, but the latter has a different lens and not the same photography options.

Sony just released an 8 MP camera, Canon probably just tries to catch up, but it is still not SLR, which has the most options and the best quality.

--
Søren Theilgaard

theblue · Aug 19, 2003

Congratulations and enjoy your new camera, going to DSLR will open up many avenues of creativity and interest to that afforded by a fixed to the body design.

My Sony 707 stays with me as it was a very nice camera, but compared to the 10D it feels like i was playing with a toy.

Tom@JHU said:
Tom@JHU said:

1) My G3 often spends too long time to focus on a moving subject.
It's in fact impossible to ever get a sharp lock on a subject
moving (walking) towards me.

How much faster is the 10D compared to this?

Click to expand...

AF is much faster, but you need lenses with USM to match the speed.
It will also focus better in low light than P&S. Also, 10D has
very good predictive AI Servo mode, which tracks your moving
subject quite well.

Tom@JHU said:

2) I'm considering the 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens, as a lot of
threads in the Lens Talk forum is recommending this as a great
alround lens.

From the focus discussions it appears that certain lenses
contribute more to the focus issue than others. In that respect how
is this lens?

Click to expand...

Any slight focus issue will only show up in much faster lens like
50/1.4 or 1.8. At 3.5-5.6, the DOF is sufficiently deep enough
that focus should not be an issue. Only camera with really bad
focusing problem will show up as such using this lens, but those
are few in numbers.

Tom@JHU said:

How is this lens compared to the G3 (please do not flame me for
this question). I understand it will zoom further in (5x it
appears), but will it also zoom further out? (The G3 is 7.2-28-8).

Click to expand...

This lens has 35mm equivalent of 46-216mm, your G3 I believe have
equivalent of 35-140mm. So yes it will give you more zoom, though
less wide angle. You will probably need to add a wide angle lens
(such as Tokina 19-35-the cheapest, Canon 20-35, Sigma 15-30, or
Canon 17-40L-the best).

Tom@JHU said:

Even though the lens is f/3.5-5.6, will it allow me to take
pictures with less DOF than the G3, which has f/2.0?

Click to expand...

Yes. G3's sensor is roughly 4 times smaller than 10D's. That
means the 10D has 4 times shallower DOF at equivalent aperature and
focal length. So assuming equal focal length, G2 at F/2 gives
roughly as much DOF as 10D gives at F/8. In another word, 10D at
F/3.5 will give you much shallower DOF than G3 at F/2. That's the
one main advantage of DSLR, you can control DOF much easier from
shallow to deep because of the large range of aperature settings
(most lens goes from Widest to F22, most telephotoes go down to F32
or even F45)

Tom@JHU said:

What macro lens would you suggest to this lens (if possible)? I
like to photograph animals in the zoo or in the wild (as wild as it
curretnly gets in Denmark) (I currently use the lens converter with
1.75x zoom extender on the G3).

Click to expand...

The 100mm Macro from Canon or Sigma, their results will blow away
anything you've seen with P&S and Macro adaptor.

Tom@JHU said:

Still learning the basics...

Click to expand...

Have fun.

Tom@JHU said:

--
Søren Theilgaard

Click to expand...

--
I never learn. I should know better by now that these forums only
make me spend more money, but I'm too dumb to stay away =)

--
http://www.fototime.com/inv/2DE8A73EF9811C6

Søren Theilgaard · Aug 19, 2003

With my G3 I almost always shoot in RAW.

I just got a Transcend 45x speed 1GB Flash Card. It can hold 240 images in RAW quality, and offers a great performance (I could probably get the same performance from a 30x card, but in my plans to get a new camera I wouldn't settle for less). The camera is much faster at displaying the images, and writing them to the card, than the original Canon FC or my 128 MB is. I really recommend to get such a card.

My worst problem, which is why I prefer RAW, is that I often find myself taking a shot, with the WB set to something wrong. Probably set to daylight, but it choose to use the flash. This correction is really easy from the Adobe RAW plug-in.

I have also tried the Capture One Demo, and what really hit me was the different values this app uses for the different light settings. Daylight in C1 is 5000 K, but in ACR it's 5500 K. This has made my try other settings in ACR, which I have found to be great in many situations.

This is alittle OT in this thread, but as some of you replying to my thread said you also had a G2 or G3, I can probably give some good advise back (I hope).

Thank you again for these great advises.
--
Søren Theilgaard

Considering 10D as replacement of G3

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