Alexander Meredith
Senior Member
Just wondered why the new G80/85 and GX80/85 are still using the 16Mpx sensor albeit with no anti-aliasing filter.
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Why is the GX8 and GH-5 the only Lumix with 20Mpx sensor
- Thread starter Alexander Meredith
- Start date
Bhima78
Senior Member
1) Panasonic is protecting their "high-end" cameras. This is a bad idea, and is normally saved for companies that can absolutely afford to do this (ie: Canon). Why buy a GX8 when you can get a better camera in the G80 if it had the 20MP sensor? That is likely Panasonic's thinking.
2) Clear out their inventory of 16MP sensors. They may have done a large bulk buy on those sensors and still need to flush them out. Again, not a good strategy for smaller camera companies trying to solidify a decent position in this shrinking market. Smaller camera companies have to show clear value over the competition. Its the only reason Pentax still exists.
cameron2
Senior Member
The 20mp sensor costs significantly more. Part cost is looked at closely when making design decisions in a consumer electronics company.
Pany makes their own 16mp sensors, so in theory they will never run out ;-) ... (It's not the same group inside Pany that makes the cameras, but there is obviously some pressure to use their home grown sensor tech.)
Sony makes the 20mp sensor. Sony's production got killed by an earthquake, and is only now recovering. Sony is a competitor (although it's not same group inside Sony that makes the cameras.)
Bhima78
Senior Member
I'm just not sure this is true. Sure, it probably costs more, but it can't cost significantly more or else the YI M1 would be much more expensive. And they are buying direct from Sony in likely not very large quantities (since they only have one camera atm).
Silverback46
Senior Member
I really like reason number 1!!! Some have said stabilizing a 20MP sensor is much more difficult than a 16 MP sensor. If that is true it may be a consideration but I think answer 1 is the real reason. I do mostly landscape work now so the more MPs the better. I also use the horrible old 4/3 lenses for this work. With Olympus withholding the price of the EM1ii I have been considering the GX8 again looking at the features I really need for landscape shooting and the fact the EM1ii may be double the price or more.
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Olymore
Senior Member
Actually Panasonic own 49% of a sensor business controlled by Tower Jazz.
And you can be sure that business will only produce sensors as long as there's sufficient sales for them to make a profit.
If Panasonic buy less of them and they're the only customer for that m43 sensor, then unit prices will rise and it will be cheaper to buy Sony sensors.
They may have a large stock of the sensor or, more likely, contracts with Tower Jazz to produce a large stock of them over a certain time period.
I'm pretty sure that a large chunk of the rumoured cost that the EM 1 mk2 is expected to cost is due to it having a bespoke sensor produced in quite small quantities.
I do wonder if it wouldn't be better for them to supply the PDAF sensor for all their other cameras and up the price by a $100 or so, and actually make more money (or lose less) as they would be buying many times more sensors at a lower unit cost.
And you can be sure that business will only produce sensors as long as there's sufficient sales for them to make a profit.
If Panasonic buy less of them and they're the only customer for that m43 sensor, then unit prices will rise and it will be cheaper to buy Sony sensors.
They may have a large stock of the sensor or, more likely, contracts with Tower Jazz to produce a large stock of them over a certain time period.
I'm pretty sure that a large chunk of the rumoured cost that the EM 1 mk2 is expected to cost is due to it having a bespoke sensor produced in quite small quantities.
I do wonder if it wouldn't be better for them to supply the PDAF sensor for all their other cameras and up the price by a $100 or so, and actually make more money (or lose less) as they would be buying many times more sensors at a lower unit cost.
Panasonic Semiconductor can probably sell 16MP chips to Panasonic Camera much more cheaply than Sony Semiconductor can sell 20MP chips to Panasonic Camera. Doesn't mean Panasonic Semi will sell the 16MP chip more cheaply outside the company, though. Family discount.
Let's not forget that Panasonic's camera division probably isn't the most profitable division in the conglomerate - if they can save $3/camera, they'll probably consider saving $3/camera.
And sure, there's gotta be a level of pride in there, too.
cameron2
Senior Member
Exactly! When you're in manufacturing, saving $3 in part cost on an item that retails for $1000 may sound like nothing, but $3 would be considered to be a considerable cost savings.
G Sciorio
Forum Enthusiast
From what Lumix engineers tell me the 16mp sensors are new. They are not refreshed versions of older sensors. Only the pixel count is similar. The GH5 sensor is different than the GX8. Again just pixel count similarities.
Bhima78
Senior Member
Just charge $3 more dollars? Yes, the cost is likely more than that (probably on the order of $20-$30 more for the 20MP sensor), but it clearly would not make a bit of difference to the buyer who is already shelling out $800+. Charge another $20 or 30 and give them the 20MP sensor.
My guesses:
- Sales of GX8 showed Panasonic that 20Mp vs 16MP is not a big deal for most buyers.
- 16MP allows faster performance, better IBIS, lower cost, whatever... things that are a big deal for most buyers.
- GH5 needs more than 16MP to deliver 6K video.
Rich Jacobson
Leading Member
The GX8 is positioned higher in the line than the G80, just as the GX7 was quite a bit more expensive than the G7.
anyone would agree 20 Mp until they came up with a 6K photo possibility WITH 6000*3000 dimensions approximately..out of a 4:3 or 3:2 fullsized pic (so cropped out of it).
That renders 20Mp next to impossible but seems to be somewhere in the range of 22 to 27 Mp at 4:3 ratio.
So that is in the balance it seems.
That renders 20Mp next to impossible but seems to be somewhere in the range of 22 to 27 Mp at 4:3 ratio.
So that is in the balance it seems.
GX8 is not a sensor. So a body sale does not show anything at all related to the sensor.
Again no: a few years is enough to address this easily with faster processers and faster sensorreadout. 16-20 MP is nothing compared to 2 to 3 times the processing speed.
The reason for G80 to have 16 Mp is that if it would have had 20 MP Gh5 would appeal to a too small audience. Yes: even if both have the exact same sensor the GH5 will be the better cam..for specialist video use with better batterypower, 4:2:2 to bit in cam etc.
That just doesn't distance it enoough. So in order to come up with cam the specialists need and the enthusiast still like more than G80 the 16 Mp is the way to go.
When we look at the G80 and what it brings we can say it offers an incredible package with tht 16MP sensor just making enough people to look elsewhere provided they feel that other things is worth the extra money.
I have a GH4 and the strange thing is that a thing I really admire about it is that excellent batterylife. It won't get you a better pic or anything like that, yet coming from a GH2 and an EPL5 it is so notable and suddenly feels like a treat. To me, it is a standout feature.
A very good move ny Oly is that they know provide a similar battery and G80 compensates with a smart mode that reduces the strain on the snaller battery to effectively provide lot more shots on one load.
GH5 does not get you 6 K video. It gets you 6K photomode. But yes: from the look of it not only does it need more than 16 Mp, it needs well over 20 MP too.
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