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Cliff. Johnston

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--
Cliff. Johnston

Well, if Phil's image test results are indicative of what the new E-1 will produce then count me out as a purchaser. For some dumb reason I expected much better. If anything, Phil's report tuned me into the Fujifilm S2 which I really hadn't considered much before!

The 4/3rds. concept certainly sounds good, but to charge twice as much for a camera the produces images that are not as sharp as competitors' cameras costing approximately 1/2 as much - COME ON OLY!!! It's a short trip into oblivion.

Cliff.
 
No need to exaggerate. I bet you will be very happy with the S2, it is on my list too. Just the damn dealer doesn't have a display model! :~
J.
Cliff. Johnston said:
--
Cliff. Johnston

Well, if Phil's image test results are indicative of what the new
E-1 will produce then count me out as a purchaser. For some dumb
reason I expected much better. If anything, Phil's report tuned me
into the Fujifilm S2 which I really hadn't considered much before!

The 4/3rds. concept certainly sounds good, but to charge twice as
much for a camera the produces images that are not as sharp as
competitors' cameras costing approximately 1/2 as much - COME ON
OLY!!! It's a short trip into oblivion.

Cliff.
Click to expand...
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/

 
Hmm, i remember that only a few weeks ago when I question about the image quality, i get slammed as a troll.

Gee, doesn't seem to be better than 10D or D100 now, does it? (other than the chromatic abberation or lack thereof)
Cliff. Johnston said:
--
Cliff. Johnston

Well, if Phil's image test results are indicative of what the new
E-1 will produce then count me out as a purchaser. For some dumb
reason I expected much better. If anything, Phil's report tuned me
into the Fujifilm S2 which I really hadn't considered much before!

The 4/3rds. concept certainly sounds good, but to charge twice as
much for a camera the produces images that are not as sharp as
competitors' cameras costing approximately 1/2 as much - COME ON
OLY!!! It's a short trip into oblivion.

Cliff.
Click to expand...
--
Gallery: http://violin.deviantart.com/gallery
 
Hi Tony
here I am to tell you "you told me so"

(I did say I would be!).

kind regards
jono slack
Tony Ku said:
Gee, doesn't seem to be better than 10D or D100 now, does it?
(other than the chromatic abberation or lack thereof)
Cliff. Johnston said:
--
Cliff. Johnston

Well, if Phil's image test results are indicative of what the new
E-1 will produce then count me out as a purchaser. For some dumb
reason I expected much better. If anything, Phil's report tuned me
into the Fujifilm S2 which I really hadn't considered much before!

The 4/3rds. concept certainly sounds good, but to charge twice as
much for a camera the produces images that are not as sharp as
competitors' cameras costing approximately 1/2 as much - COME ON
OLY!!! It's a short trip into oblivion.

Cliff.
Click to expand...
--
Gallery: http://violin.deviantart.com/gallery
Click to expand...
--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Cliff. Johnston said:
The 4/3rds. concept certainly sounds good, but to charge twice as
much for a camera the produces images that are not as sharp as
competitors' cameras costing approximately 1/2 as much - COME ON
OLY!!! It's a short trip into oblivion.
Click to expand...
The E-1 would have been EASILY worth the price if the images were as good as the competition.

But, alas, definitely less resolution and a whole EV of more noise (ISO 400 on Oly like ISO 800 on Nikon/Canon/Fuji).

On the other hand, maybe the F2.8-3.5 zoom lens makes up for the noise, because the equivalent F2.8 lens for the Canon is a humongous and expensive "L" lens.

Also, did Phil truly test the meter sensitivity? For example, the ISO 100 on my Sony F707 is closer to ISO 50 on my film cameras than it is to ISO 100.

I STILL believe Oly's hype about the superior lenses, I believe that it's the sensor that's failing us, not the lens.
 
Tony was right
Capital Man said:
Jono Slack said:
Hi Tony
here I am to tell you "you told me so"

(I did say I would be!).
Click to expand...
The pre-release hype indicated that the Oly sensor had quality just
as good as Canon/Nikon. I guess it was BS, but you really had no
way of knowing that until now. You just had a lucky guess.
Click to expand...
I also beleived the reports - so I was the 'unlucky' one!

Tony will certainly understand however!
I did say I'd eat my words, so that's what I'm doing.
kind regards

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Hey Jono,
Jono Slack said:
here I am to tell you "you told me so"

(I did say I would be!).
Click to expand...
You always keep your word, don't you? :-)

About the E-1.. what's your opinion on the pictures (if you've
seen them already)?

A few observations of my own..
  • I don't really understand the fuss about the lack of sharpness and
the noise-issue. Compared to the E-10, the noise in the E-1 samples
is virtually nonexistent, and it's never been an issue in my E-10 pictures
in the first place.. So how can it be a problem on the E-1? It seems
to do very well w.r.t. blue-sky noise. I virtually can't find any. Good for
Oly. And who doesn't apply a bit of USM on his images anyway?
  • The E-10 always excelled from an ergonomics point of view. The E-1
is based on (evolved out of) the E-10 design so will probably be a bliss
to hold and handle. Don't forget to count the pleasure of handling a
camera when taking pictures. It'll probably result in better pictures
eventually.
  • Its compactness, weight, and robust design. Probably not the most
important thing for everyone, but for some people - like me - a camera
that's weather-proof and built like a tank, yet lightweight, is a big plus.
  • I have always liked the colour reproduction of the higher end Oly
cameras. And from what I've seen in the E-1 pictures, this camera
doesn't disappoint. Couple that with an extraordinary dynamic range,
and I think Oly / Zuiko deserve credit for both.

All in all.. I don't think it's going to be the "dud" some people like
to proclaim right now. But then again.. who doesn't like a bit of b!tching
and moaning every now and then?

Bram

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Travel Photographer
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pbase.com/brambos
 
Capital Man said:
...
I STILL believe Oly's hype about the superior lenses, I believe
that it's the sensor that's failing us, not the lens.
Click to expand...
I am not so sure about that. Sensors do not make the picture
unsharp. But - of course - the RAW image may be so noisy that
the camera applies an excessive noise reduction that creates
the unsharpness.

Roland
 
Jón Ragnarsson said:
Cliff. Johnston said:
--
Cliff. Johnston

Well, if Phil's image test results are indicative of what the new
E-1 will produce then count me out as a purchaser. For some dumb
reason I expected much better. If anything, Phil's report tuned me
into the Fujifilm S2 which I really hadn't considered much before!

The 4/3rds. concept certainly sounds good, but to charge twice as
much for a camera the produces images that are not as sharp as
competitors' cameras costing approximately 1/2 as much - COME ON
OLY!!! It's a short trip into oblivion.

Cliff.
Click to expand...
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/

Click to expand...
--
Cliff. Johnston

Jon,

Not much of an exaggeration on the prices! The MSRP for the E-1 is $2,199, street price??? Right now I'm looking at the following prices:

Nikon D-100 @ $1,179.99, Canon EOS 10D @ $1,109.99, & Sigma SD-9 with 2 lenses @ $1,399.95. The Fuji S-2 Pro is the only one still in rarified air ca. $2,000.

Sooo, you may eat your words at your own convenience.

Cliff.
 
Jono Slack said:
Hi Tony
here I am to tell you "you told me so"

(I did say I would be!).

kind regards
jono slack
Click to expand...
Hi Jono - no need to be too hard on yourself. I think that
this was a surprise for all of us. I mean - Oly seemed so sure
they had a winner with superior quality, that the quality
at least must be up to the competitors. My personal guess
was that they did not want to show the pictures until
they had tweaked them to be at least as good.

Roland
 
Bram Bos said:
Bram Bos said:
here I am to tell you "you told me so"

(I did say I would be!).
Click to expand...
You always keep your word, don't you? :-)

About the E-1.. what's your opinion on the pictures (if you've
seen them already)?

A few observations of my own..
  • I don't really understand the fuss about the lack of sharpness and
the noise-issue. Compared to the E-10, the noise in the E-1 samples
is virtually nonexistent, and it's never been an issue in my E-10
pictures
in the first place.. So how can it be a problem on the E-1? It seems
to do very well w.r.t. blue-sky noise. I virtually can't find any.
Good for
Oly. And who doesn't apply a bit of USM on his images anyway?
  • The E-10 always excelled from an ergonomics point of view. The E-1
is based on (evolved out of) the E-10 design so will probably be a
bliss
to hold and handle. Don't forget to count the pleasure of handling a
camera when taking pictures. It'll probably result in better pictures
eventually.
  • Its compactness, weight, and robust design. Probably not the most
important thing for everyone, but for some people - like me - a camera
that's weather-proof and built like a tank, yet lightweight, is a
big plus.
  • I have always liked the colour reproduction of the higher end Oly
cameras. And from what I've seen in the E-1 pictures, this camera
doesn't disappoint. Couple that with an extraordinary dynamic range,
and I think Oly / Zuiko deserve credit for both.

All in all.. I don't think it's going to be the "dud" some people like
to proclaim right now. But then again.. who doesn't like a bit of
b!tching
and moaning every now and then?

Bram

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Travel Photographer
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pbase.com/brambos
Click to expand...
--
Cliff. Johnston

Bram,

Hope springs eternal, and I'm hoping that someone at Oly sees all of the bitching about the poor image resolution, noise, etc, and does something FAST before the camera hits the streets. Personally I like the 4/3rds concept; however, someone has to get through to them that pre-production puffery doesn't cut the mustard anymore. With these forums and other means of communications, the word gets around PDQ.

The sharpness issue seems similar to some of the problems that Kodak is/was having with their 14N. I'm beginning to wonder if it doesn't have something to do with inherent design characteristics of the sensors produced by Kodak. Any engineers out there with thoughts on this???

Cliff.
 
Roland Karlsson said:
Jono Slack said:
Hi Tony
here I am to tell you "you told me so"

(I did say I would be!).

kind regards
jono slack
Click to expand...
Hi Jono - no need to be too hard on yourself. I think that
this was a surprise for all of us. I mean - Oly seemed so sure
they had a winner with superior quality, that the quality
at least must be up to the competitors. My personal guess
was that they did not want to show the pictures until
they had tweaked them to be at least as good.

Roland
Click to expand...
--
Cliff. Johnston

Roland,

If the factory images are tweaked to the best of their ability, then we don't stand much of a chance to do any better on PS with our images. That's quite an insult to receive after one buys into their hype and lays out $2,500+.

Cliff.
 
I really want to know, since I am planning on buying my first DSLR. (Time to upgrade after 17 years) ;)

J.
Cliff. Johnston said:
Jón Ragnarsson said:
Cliff. Johnston said:
--
Cliff. Johnston

Well, if Phil's image test results are indicative of what the new
E-1 will produce then count me out as a purchaser. For some dumb
reason I expected much better. If anything, Phil's report tuned me
into the Fujifilm S2 which I really hadn't considered much before!

The 4/3rds. concept certainly sounds good, but to charge twice as
much for a camera the produces images that are not as sharp as
competitors' cameras costing approximately 1/2 as much - COME ON
OLY!!! It's a short trip into oblivion.

Cliff.
Click to expand...
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/

Click to expand...
--
Cliff. Johnston

Jon,

Not much of an exaggeration on the prices! The MSRP for the E-1 is
$2,199, street price??? Right now I'm looking at the following
prices:
Nikon D-100 @ $1,179.99, Canon EOS 10D @ $1,109.99, & Sigma SD-9
with 2 lenses @ $1,399.95. The Fuji S-2 Pro is the only one still
in rarified air ca. $2,000.

Sooo, you may eat your words at your own convenience.

Cliff.
Click to expand...
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/

 
Roland Karlsson said:
Capital Man said:
...
I STILL believe Oly's hype about the superior lenses, I believe
that it's the sensor that's failing us, not the lens.
Click to expand...
I am not so sure about that. Sensors do not make the picture
unsharp. But - of course - the RAW image may be so noisy that
the camera applies an excessive noise reduction that creates
the unsharpness.
Click to expand...
No, the AA filter makes the picture unsharp. And sensible in-camera sharpening. I usually shot in low-sharpening mode, it gives me more flexibilaty.

I do belive that Foevon-style sensor is the only way to give truly sharp photos. Or you have to live with moires...
J.
Roland Karlsson said:
Roland
Click to expand...
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/

 
HI Bram

Yes, I have looked at the samples, and actually, I do agree, the 'real world' pictures do look pretty good.

But in the current context, it seemed better to lie on my back and waggle my legs in the air!

kind regards
jono slack
Bram Bos said:
Bram Bos said:
here I am to tell you "you told me so"

(I did say I would be!).
Click to expand...
You always keep your word, don't you? :-)

About the E-1.. what's your opinion on the pictures (if you've
seen them already)?

A few observations of my own..
  • I don't really understand the fuss about the lack of sharpness and
the noise-issue. Compared to the E-10, the noise in the E-1 samples
is virtually nonexistent, and it's never been an issue in my E-10
pictures
in the first place.. So how can it be a problem on the E-1? It seems
to do very well w.r.t. blue-sky noise. I virtually can't find any.
Good for
Oly. And who doesn't apply a bit of USM on his images anyway?
  • The E-10 always excelled from an ergonomics point of view. The E-1
is based on (evolved out of) the E-10 design so will probably be a
bliss
to hold and handle. Don't forget to count the pleasure of handling a
camera when taking pictures. It'll probably result in better pictures
eventually.
  • Its compactness, weight, and robust design. Probably not the most
important thing for everyone, but for some people - like me - a camera
that's weather-proof and built like a tank, yet lightweight, is a
big plus.
  • I have always liked the colour reproduction of the higher end Oly
cameras. And from what I've seen in the E-1 pictures, this camera
doesn't disappoint. Couple that with an extraordinary dynamic range,
and I think Oly / Zuiko deserve credit for both.

All in all.. I don't think it's going to be the "dud" some people like
to proclaim right now. But then again.. who doesn't like a bit of
b!tching
and moaning every now and then?

Bram

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Travel Photographer
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pbase.com/brambos
Click to expand...
--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Hi Roland

LOL - don't worry, I'm not being hard on myself, but I would prefer to be a graceful loser!

I'd seen some great samples, and, to be honest, I think that the samples in Phil's gallery are pretty good - resolution charts aren't necessarily perfect reflections of image quality.

I'll be interested to see what Phil's conclusions are, but it's true - my hopes of great noise results at high ISO are pretty much out of the window. :-(

Worse luck for all of us.

kind regards
jono slack
Roland Karlsson said:
Jono Slack said:
Hi Tony
here I am to tell you "you told me so"

(I did say I would be!).

kind regards
jono slack
Click to expand...
Hi Jono - no need to be too hard on yourself. I think that
this was a surprise for all of us. I mean - Oly seemed so sure
they had a winner with superior quality, that the quality
at least must be up to the competitors. My personal guess
was that they did not want to show the pictures until
they had tweaked them to be at least as good.

Roland
Click to expand...
--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
 
As I said before, it is a decent $800-$1000 camera and should be seen as a step up from a CP5700 or E-20. The question is whether Olympus will be able to make a profit at the price people will pay for it. It does not look promising.
 
Jon,

September issue of Popular Photography & Imaging magazine is where I got those prices - the Sigma SD-9 deal is on page 135, upper right-hand corner of the page - B&H (big name outfit, not a fly-by-nighter).

You sound as if you are in the same situation that I'm in. I just buried my old Miranda Sensorex (RIP, sniff, sniff) and am limping along on a newer Minolta that I just hate while looking to make the big jump into digital.

Good hunting,

Cliff.
Jón Ragnarsson said:
J.
Cliff. Johnston said:
Jón Ragnarsson said:
Cliff. Johnston said:
--
Cliff. Johnston

Well, if Phil's image test results are indicative of what the new
E-1 will produce then count me out as a purchaser. For some dumb
reason I expected much better. If anything, Phil's report tuned me
into the Fujifilm S2 which I really hadn't considered much before!

The 4/3rds. concept certainly sounds good, but to charge twice as
much for a camera the produces images that are not as sharp as
competitors' cameras costing approximately 1/2 as much - COME ON
OLY!!! It's a short trip into oblivion.

Cliff.
Click to expand...
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/

Click to expand...
--
Cliff. Johnston

Jon,

Not much of an exaggeration on the prices! The MSRP for the E-1 is
$2,199, street price??? Right now I'm looking at the following
prices:
Nikon D-100 @ $1,179.99, Canon EOS 10D @ $1,109.99, & Sigma SD-9
with 2 lenses @ $1,399.95. The Fuji S-2 Pro is the only one still
in rarified air ca. $2,000.

Sooo, you may eat your words at your own convenience.

Cliff.
Click to expand...
--
http://jonr.beecee.org/

Click to expand...
--
Cliff. Johnston
 
win39 said:
As I said before, it is a decent $800-$1000 camera and should be
seen as a step up from a CP5700 or E-20. The question is whether
Olympus will be able to make a profit at the price people will pay
for it. It does not look promising.
Click to expand...
Nope ... they should have made the cheaper camera first,
or maybe only. This Pro thing was a mistake. I wonder how
late they found that out? Just as late as Kodak found out
about their 14n maybe.

Roland
 
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