80D review 1+ hour up and no responses!?

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And who would buy the 80d knowing that the oh so mighty AF-system can't even track a flying bird?
That's not true. It tracks flying bird very well.
Can you point to the evidence for that?

The AF tests in the DPR review don't convince me it would.
since when has DPR ever done good AF testing?

according to them the 7D Mark II or even the 5D Mark III can't AF BIF either.

they focus (pardon the pun) on image tracking .. aka iTR versus how well the camera can lock onto an subject at a particular subject and predict vector motion.

the exact same engine was used in the 1D sports cameras up to the 1DX (first with iTR) and not one damned person suggested that the 1 series was lacking for AF (Mark III problems not included :P )
That's hardly a fair interpretation.
something i'd expect from a sony user because you don't have a basis of comparison.

the 80D AF is VERY similar to the 45 point array of the 1D Mark II - N, III and IV days. even going back to the 1V and 3 days.

and no one complained about them being able to do BIF.

according to dpreview, everything MUST use iTR or it's equivalent to do AF now. which is a pretty ridiculous assertion.

Hard to grasp?

and a sony user coming in here touting off canon issues? shall we run though the wobbly mounts, overheating cameras, bricking on updates, lossy raw, crappy non existent service, cameras that can't af with longer focals in moderate light, flash mount issues - hell flashes in general,etc,etc..
Not quite sure if this was in response to me, but: I shoot a canon 7d mark 1 as my prime camera (and occasionally the a6000 - mainly for macro and when I want better IQ 😊) I'm not biased in any way (only towards the consumer) and I actually just commended the AF of the 7D mark II (from what I've read about it). Lots of things wrong with Sony. But that's not an excuse for Canon not to do better. How can you keep on bashing Sony for poor handling and clumsy ergonomics (which is true) if you need to have four hands and the IQ of Einstein to get the 80d to track properly (if in fact it can?)? And then ask for more than 1 k? That's an insult imho.
 
Who will pay that amount of money for the 7d Mark II knowing that the sensor has substantially less dynamic range compared to it's cheaper sibling?
Anyone who understands that there's more to photography than the fad of banishing shadows from your photos.
 
something i'd expect from a sony user because you don't have a basis of comparison.

the 80D AF is VERY similar to the 45 point array of the 1D Mark II - N, III and IV days. even going back to the 1V and 3 days.

and no one complained about them being able to do BIF.

according to dpreview, everything MUST use iTR or it's equivalent to do AF now. which is a pretty ridiculous assertion.
It's probably wrong to focus on BIF - and I put my hands up and note I am as much to blame as anyone for taking the conversation down that route.

The problem is there is not a single use case for BIF just like there isn't for any other photographic scenario.

Clearly pro/enthusiast Canon bodies excel at many/most BIF requirements, as do their lenses.

However, in my case I was pointing to a specific use case of mine that just happened to be a BIF that was similar to the cyclist test performed by DPR.

I don't think tracking is the issue - its more a case of 70/80D not being able to adjust focus fast enough.

"...I noticed something interesting: while many of the frames were out of focus, the correct AF points were often illuminated over the subject. This indicates that while the camera is able to detect and track where the subject is in the frame, the AF system is simply unable to acquire focus quickly enough during the burst."

That's my experience too of the 70D. Some settings might improve that, at the expense of fps. I have tried them, but I can't say the improvement was great. Also different lens combinations might work better if they have faster focus motors.

My disappointment is that the 80D doesn't appear to improve much on this - but I am more than happy if someone other than DPR can show me it does. I may well buy one then.

Moreover, I just reflected that it was interesting how well a MILC like the A6300 can do now in this regard. But I am not about to switch to Sony just for that one feature.

Of course there are lots of areas in which the 80D excels. There are plenty of sound reasons to buy one. I would just have loved it if it had excelled in this use case too, or at least improved over the 70D.

So I am now waiting to see what the next wave of pro/enthusiast Canon's bring. If they can meld the sensor improvements of the 80D and improve on their already good AF, then they should be on to a winner.

In the meantime, though I could, I am reluctant to buy a 5DMKIII or 7DMKII given what lies around the corner. I will just have to be patient
and a sony user coming in here touting off canon issues? shall we run though the wobbly mounts, overheating cameras, bricking on updates, lossy raw, crappy non existent service, cameras that can't af with longer focals in moderate light, flash mount issues - hell flashes in general,etc,etc..
Hence why I haven't bought a A6300 or A7RII... I am just stuck waiting for the 'perfect' camera :-)
 
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Hence why I haven't bought a A6300 or A7RII... I am just stuck waiting for the 'perfect' camera :-)
I was waiting for the 80D. Not perfect, but probably right for me.
 
I like DPREVIEW for camera reviews but I thought the 80D review was terrible.

1. Why would you test a rugby match where the photographer skill matters so much, maybe even more than the camera/lens combo? There's no way of knowing how much technique attributed to OOF pictures. I can't handhold the Tamron 150-600mm to save my life and I generally get a low hit rate unless I use a tripod, in which case I can get good hit rate with a 6D and probably could with any rebel. For tennis I'd likely use one-shot focus depending on where I was and I don't see how this even qualifies for tracking test. I could see testing AI Focus but not AI Servo for tennis. Then there's the biker looping in an out. That's a pretty specific scenario where tweaking AF settings would do wonders to track the biker.

2. Some of the samples were tweaked to taste and they had a lot of color noise. That's the easiest thing to remove unless you really like color noise. This includes their rugby and tennis shots. I barely even get that much color noise at ISO1600 on my 80D before doing any NR.

3. I get comparing the camera to the A6300 but why compare the AF to the 7DMKII? The 7DMKII AF is in some ways superior and very comparable to the 1Dx. If we're going to compare across series, then why not compare it to a rebel instead? Better yet, just compare it to a 70D.

For me, a mirrorless is not an option. I find focusing with a screen to be awkward and I don't like EVF's either. I get the advantages of mirrorless and I have a G16 because I like the quality in a small compact package. As far as DR, if you like shadows, expose for shadows. That's probably the easies thing to overcome when shooting raw. I see where DR matters a lot when shooting video but there's so much latitude with raw and so much that you can do as a photographer that lack of DR can be minimized. There's plenty of people getting great images that shoot jpg only that this DR seems to have become the sexy marketing words now that the MP argument is mostly moot.

I remember when Nikon was stuck on 12mp for the longest. The talk back then was that MP wasn't everything. Then the D800 came out and high MP was great all of a sudden. Now Canon has a 5Ds and DR is thrown around.

I think the 80D is a hell of a camera. It's a joy to use, focuses fast, and I'm enjoying it so far. DR wasn't an issue for me with a 10D and it still isn't with an 80D.
 
I like DPREVIEW for camera reviews but I thought the 80D review was terrible.

1. Why would you test a rugby match where the photographer skill matters so much, maybe even more than the camera/lens combo? There's no way of knowing how much technique attributed to OOF pictures. I can't handhold the Tamron 150-600mm to save my life and I generally get a low hit rate unless I use a tripod, in which case I can get good hit rate with a 6D and probably could with any rebel. For tennis I'd likely use one-shot focus depending on where I was and I don't see how this even qualifies for tracking test. I could see testing AI Focus but not AI Servo for tennis. Then there's the biker looping in an out. That's a pretty specific scenario where tweaking AF settings would do wonders to track the biker.

2. Some of the samples were tweaked to taste and they had a lot of color noise. That's the easiest thing to remove unless you really like color noise. This includes their rugby and tennis shots. I barely even get that much color noise at ISO1600 on my 80D before doing any NR.

3. I get comparing the camera to the A6300 but why compare the AF to the 7DMKII? The 7DMKII AF is in some ways superior and very comparable to the 1Dx. If we're going to compare across series, then why not compare it to a rebel instead? Better yet, just compare it to a 70D.

For me, a mirrorless is not an option. I find focusing with a screen to be awkward and I don't like EVF's either. I get the advantages of mirrorless and I have a G16 because I like the quality in a small compact package. As far as DR, if you like shadows, expose for shadows. That's probably the easies thing to overcome when shooting raw. I see where DR matters a lot when shooting video but there's so much latitude with raw and so much that you can do as a photographer that lack of DR can be minimized. There's plenty of people getting great images that shoot jpg only that this DR seems to have become the sexy marketing words now that the MP argument is mostly moot.

I remember when Nikon was stuck on 12mp for the longest. The talk back then was that MP wasn't everything. Then the D800 came out and high MP was great all of a sudden. Now Canon has a 5Ds and DR is thrown around.

I think the 80D is a hell of a camera. It's a joy to use, focuses fast, and I'm enjoying it so far. DR wasn't an issue for me with a 10D and it still isn't with an 80D.
Couldn't agree more.

If I'm not satisfied with one of my photos, I start by blaming myself, not the gear. The trouble with all these "tests" are I think, that not many of the journalists are actually Pro's themselves and don't use the gear on a long enough period to discover all the tweaks and limits of the technology used. I went from a 60D to a 70D and now the 80D. I loved both the 60&70d's, they never let me down, the ergonomics are great and so is the image quality when good glass is used. So yes : Canon don't have the best "dynamic range" even though progress has been made in the 80D. I mainly shoot landscapes/seascapes and the highlight/shadow range is so great that I will use my ND Graduated/polarizer filters anyway, even if I had the camera body with the best dynamic range in the world I would still need them.

"You need the right tool for the right job" and so far DSLR's suit me fine, they're tough, reliable and just get the job done......and they do it well. It seems to me that the mirrorless kids, even if they are getting much better are still a Jack of all trades, but a master of none, look sexy on the spec sheets, but seem to dissapoint on the terrain.

Enjoy your new toy :-)

Cheers
 
I like DPREVIEW for camera reviews but I thought the 80D review was terrible.

1. Why would you test a rugby match where the photographer skill matters so much, maybe even more than the camera/lens combo? There's no way of knowing how much technique attributed to OOF pictures. I can't handhold the Tamron 150-600mm to save my life and I generally get a low hit rate unless I use a tripod, in which case I can get good hit rate with a 6D and probably could with any rebel. For tennis I'd likely use one-shot focus depending on where I was and I don't see how this even qualifies for tracking test. I could see testing AI Focus but not AI Servo for tennis. Then there's the biker looping in an out. That's a pretty specific scenario where tweaking AF settings would do wonders to track the biker.

2. Some of the samples were tweaked to taste and they had a lot of color noise. That's the easiest thing to remove unless you really like color noise. This includes their rugby and tennis shots. I barely even get that much color noise at ISO1600 on my 80D before doing any NR.

3. I get comparing the camera to the A6300 but why compare the AF to the 7DMKII? The 7DMKII AF is in some ways superior and very comparable to the 1Dx. If we're going to compare across series, then why not compare it to a rebel instead? Better yet, just compare it to a 70D.

For me, a mirrorless is not an option. I find focusing with a screen to be awkward and I don't like EVF's either. I get the advantages of mirrorless and I have a G16 because I like the quality in a small compact package. As far as DR, if you like shadows, expose for shadows. That's probably the easies thing to overcome when shooting raw. I see where DR matters a lot when shooting video but there's so much latitude with raw and so much that you can do as a photographer that lack of DR can be minimized. There's plenty of people getting great images that shoot jpg only that this DR seems to have become the sexy marketing words now that the MP argument is mostly moot.

I remember when Nikon was stuck on 12mp for the longest. The talk back then was that MP wasn't everything. Then the D800 came out and high MP was great all of a sudden. Now Canon has a 5Ds and DR is thrown around.

I think the 80D is a hell of a camera. It's a joy to use, focuses fast, and I'm enjoying it so far. DR wasn't an issue for me with a 10D and it still isn't with an 80D.
Couldn't agree more.

If I'm not satisfied with one of my photos, I start by blaming myself, not the gear. The trouble with all these "tests" are I think, that not many of the journalists are actually Pro's themselves and don't use the gear on a long enough period to discover all the tweaks and limits of the technology used. I went from a 60D to a 70D and now the 80D. I loved both the 60&70d's, they never let me down, the ergonomics are great and so is the image quality when good glass is used. So yes : Canon don't have the best "dynamic range" even though progress has been made in the 80D. I mainly shoot landscapes/seascapes and the highlight/shadow range is so great that I will use my ND Graduated/polarizer filters anyway, even if I had the camera body with the best dynamic range in the world I would still need them.

"You need the right tool for the right job" and so far DSLR's suit me fine, they're tough, reliable and just get the job done......and they do it well. It seems to me that the mirrorless kids, even if they are getting much better are still a Jack of all trades, but a master of none, look sexy on the spec sheets, but seem to dissapoint on the terrain.

Enjoy your new toy :-)

Cheers
I think the review convinced me - 80D is still on my shopping list. The photographs were not convincing and probably the writer had not really read the manual - and he had a strict timeline. Anyway, we always need to practice with a new camera. Also those who write reviews.

I was interested in the better DR and the functionality - and that was great. I want a camera i can use without a manual i the bag after using some Canon cameras before. And there are many very good things in 80D - at the moment i need a camera that has a floppy screen, better DR and video that is easy to use for some fast footage to show something later.

And also the lens matters - they are different and probably some work very well with 80D for sports

We have to read tests carefully - what we need and what the camera has is essential. A test winner is nice to have - if it suits me.
 
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In looking at the sample images and reviews of the A6300 by DPreview, the Camera Store and Tony and Chelsea Northrup, it is easy to see that all attended the same Sony press event and yet only one provided full disclosure IMHO... DPreview and the Camera Store mention they were "invited" by Sony but Tony and Chelsea Northrup give you full disclosure at the beginning of their video about how Sony paid for their hotel, travel and food expenses... say what you will about their objectivity but this kind of honesty is always welcome....
 
In looking at the sample images and reviews of the A6300 by DPreview, the Camera Store and Tony and Chelsea Northrup, it is easy to see that all attended the same Sony press event and yet only one provided full disclosure IMHO... DPreview and the Camera Store mention they were "invited" by Sony but Tony and Chelsea Northrup give you full disclosure at the beginning of their video about how Sony paid for their hotel, travel and food expenses... say what you will about their objectivity but this kind of honesty is always welcome....
Yep, I noticed the same thing. Digitalrev TV also mentioned that Sony were paying them... pity it is so hard to find honest reviews, they all seem to be pay - off's.
 
In looking at the sample images and reviews of the A6300 by DPreview, the Camera Store and Tony and Chelsea Northrup, it is easy to see that all attended the same Sony press event and yet only one provided full disclosure IMHO... DPreview and the Camera Store mention they were "invited" by Sony but Tony and Chelsea Northrup give you full disclosure at the beginning of their video about how Sony paid for their hotel, travel and food expenses... say what you will about their objectivity but this kind of honesty is always welcome....
Do you really believe you can be objective when you allow someone to give you equipment or travel expenses?
 
People will argue for and against. Myself, I feel that critical objectivity is somewhat undermined in these situations and my feelings are only heightened when reviewers are not fully transparent about any free gifts they receive from manufactures whose products they are supposed to evaluate.
 
In looking at the sample images and reviews of the A6300 by DPreview, the Camera Store and Tony and Chelsea Northrup, it is easy to see that all attended the same Sony press event and yet only one provided full disclosure IMHO... DPreview and the Camera Store mention they were "invited" by Sony but Tony and Chelsea Northrup give you full disclosure at the beginning of their video about how Sony paid for their hotel, travel and food expenses... say what you will about their objectivity but this kind of honesty is always welcome....
Although full disclosure as to who picked up the attendance tab may reveal a review bias, it's not necessarily all that relevant. Reviewers all have an agenda. They all want you to buy product , either books, other media or gear. Each will say and do whatever strategy works to convince you to send money their way. In all reviewers cases, attending paid attendance Sony events has likely achieved the objectives for both Sony and themselves. Sony cameras are reviewed, indirectly promoted and advertised by well followed, independent, social-media savy personalities. Sony seems to accept the risk that not all reviews will be 100% positive. Perhaps Sony realizes that today's two-way social-media dialogue makes it much more difficult to baffle the consumer with over-hyped selling points. Someone is always there to call out the BS and point out when a product is flawed. A reviewer who pretends the camera is perfect will suffer ridicule and loss of credibility.
 
Talk for yourself, i have 80D. I also own a fuji x-t1 with the xf100-400mm. It's true that you can get some good shot with any mirrorless camera but they usually take longer to acquire focus. Once they got it, they are good at maintaing it. Evf blackout is the biggest downside to mirrorless camera. In a few years, mirrorless will be superior than any DSLR. We are just not there yet
 
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