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Word is spreading. Canon 10D AF soiling reputation.

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Steven, I have a 10D and it doesn't have a focus problem. You don't have one yet you say all have problems. It is folks like you that are greatly contributing to the growing hysteria and making it difficult to really know what is going on. If you have personal knowledge, then by all means tell us what you think. Otherwise, please don't just pass on hearsay. Leon
 
I owned 2 of then and then back to a D60. This is not hear say. BTW its folks like you that except the focus issues so Canon will not address it.
Leon Wittwer said:
It is folks like you
that are greatly contributing to the growing hysteria and making it
difficult to really know what is going on.
Click to expand...
--
Steve
D60
Sony 707
L fever high
 
and now you are shooting some meaningful targets that I like. :-) We just now need you to shoot some meaningful edge to edge targets instead of backyards so your studies tell us sharpness and resolution in more objective detail that we can see.

:-)

Congrats on having good ones.

MAC
Adam-T said:
........managed to hit the line bang on with a Sigma 170-500 at
500mm 14 feet away wide open on the 10D first time, I covered the
AF assist of the 550EX and used the Better Beamer to light it at
500mm..

Admittedly, the line as you can see is not exactly difficult for
the 10Ds big sensor to hit and I suppose it's more Kudos to this
much maligned Sigma lens for not Front or Rear focussing than the
camera but it shows that not all 10Ds are calibrated wrong and not
all Sigma lenses are out

100% unmodified Crop



--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

..Zero..to..Shot..Taken..in..16,000th..of..a..second----> EOS 1D

The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->

http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/

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--
MAC
http://www.digi-pictures.com
 
Maybe the Sigma is so far out that it balances the defective 10D you have, and that's why you're having such problems with wide-angle zooms. ;)

JUST KIDDING, folks. ;)
Adam-T said:
........managed to hit the line bang on with a Sigma 170-500 at
500mm 14 feet away wide open on the 10D first time, I covered the
AF assist of the 550EX and used the Better Beamer to light it at
500mm..

Admittedly, the line as you can see is not exactly difficult for
the 10Ds big sensor to hit and I suppose it's more Kudos to this
much maligned Sigma lens for not Front or Rear focussing than the
camera but it shows that not all 10Ds are calibrated wrong and not
all Sigma lenses are out
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
Even using the 0.6% failure rate that's often stated, that's 180 bad ones per month.

If just half of those find their way to forums (and DPR is quite popular), that's one heck of a lot of posts, isn't it?

What's still odd, though, are the ones who get two or three in a row that are bad. I can't recall if those folks had their lenses readjusted or not, though.
gregY said:
Methinks the 10D is a victim by default. After the success of its
older siblings (1D/D30/D60) which were priced a lot higher at
launch, the 10D came at a remarkable price point that made it
feasible to a whole lot more people who couldn't afford or wouldn't
spend 2,000 bucks on a D60.

So now you have 30,000(?) 10D's shipping out every month, let's say
hypothetically 2% of those are out of spec, we have 600 disgruntled
camera owners a month! And imagine if half of all those 600 owners
a month (compounding) made some noise in this forum and everywhere
else, that would create enough hot air to last the entire life
cycle of this camera! It's been generally known that bad news gets
distorted, amplified and travels a lot faster and further than good
news.

As for me, I've never had any focus problems (it's NOT denial!)
with any of the EOS bodies I've used in the past (Rebel, Elan 2E,
3, 1D, D30, 10D), so I guess I'm one of the lucky 95% of all Canon
users! Very comforting indeed. And neither have any of my mates
shooting Canon experienced any focusing problems like many of those
seen here.

It doesn't help that many 10D owners seem to never have used EOS in
the past and bought on reputation rather than understanding its
limitations.
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
Steve's had 2 10D's, as have I. I saw his results and they were consistent with what I was getting. Erratic AF and soft images.
Leon Wittwer said:
Steven, I have a 10D and it doesn't have a focus problem. You
don't have one yet you say all have problems. It is folks like you
that are greatly contributing to the growing hysteria and making it
difficult to really know what is going on. If you have personal
knowledge, then by all means tell us what you think. Otherwise,
please don't just pass on hearsay. Leon
Click to expand...
--
John



Equipment list in profile...subject to change on a daily basis ;^)

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together

Join the Mid-Atlantic DSLR group....for all DSLR Users in the Eastern PA, NJ, DE, MD areas
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Stephen Mann said:
Stephen Mann said:
Stephen Mann said:
I am fairly new to the 10D, and I am having problems adjusting my
shooting style (formerly on film) to the camera. I am particularly
having a problem getting the hang of the AF. In controlled
situations with the camera on a tripod, I can get some razor-sharp
images, but I have yet to figure out how to stop the autofocus from
hunting all over the place. I've set the Cfn07 to the center AF
point, I shoot everything in manual, Shutter or Aperture priority
mode. It's my reading of the manual that the AF should lock when I
depress the shutter halfway and hold it, but when I do this to get
a focus lock and return to my composition, the AF kicks in again
and focuses where it wants to.

What am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I am a new user also and I feel so much confused, desperate, frustrated, addle and much more with all the information that people is just writing away without being aware that in this world is full of people like me, that come to this site the LEARN what others people have experimented. Making statements from "what I heard" type of thing, I think is not right at all. Now I feel like I just wanna return my camera and not even find out if it has something wrong! I was looking at my pictures yesterday and I noticed that in one of them the sharpness is not as flawless as I thought! Now I am wondering if camera has the problem. I used the Sigma 105 1:1 macro lens at 27 which you should get a pretty sharp image....oh well maybe is not even worth it to try and discuss the sharpness issue, or is it?
 
DrMark said:
DavidP said:
I'm sure we could find any AF issues in the Nikon system, if given
the opportunity to do so.
Steve Haehnichen said:
While my own 10D seems to have perfectly fine AF, I'm surprised at
the widespread knowledge of the "AF Problem" even in non-techies.

This weekend I met a guy looking to get his second digital camera.
"I like the Canon cameras, but I hear they have mixed-up
autofocus." He didn't even know which model, just heard that Canon
can't get autofocus right.

I wouldn't think much of it, except that this is the THIRD time
I've heard comments like this from people much less obsessed than
us here in the forum. We're not talking about measurebators any
more -- these are folks thinking of making the stretch into SLR and
doing a few google searches. The first thing they find is
thousands of debating messages about AF this and that.

Canon needs to get their head out of the sand, make some public
statements, and say "Here is our AutoFocus specification. If we
sell a camera that doesn't measure up, we will fix it."
Calibrating each lens, hiding the service manual, second and third
return trips to service -- disavowing any problem is souring their
reputation.
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
We've gotta quit talking about "AF problems" and get more specific.

As I see it, there are several:

1) body focus miscalibrations
2) lens focus miscalibrations
3) low-light, low-contrast issues
4) red/orange lights (and other colors as well) issues
5) issues related to the size of the AF sensor itself

I think you're talking mainly about #5, right? Is that also Steve's complaint?

I'd say that a LOT more than 0.6% of 10D's have this "issue". It ought to be essentially 100% of them, since it's in the design. One's choice of photographic subjects (relative size being the main issue) will determine if this causes a problem for him or not.
John Mankos said:
Steve's had 2 10D's, as have I. I saw his results and they were
consistent with what I was getting. Erratic AF and soft images.
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
...how passionate YOU would be if YOUR camera had these problems. And continued to show them even after repeated calibrations by Canon.

It's like reading about an earthquake on the other side of the planet with 5000 casualties. Of course it's terrible, but you're not really affected. But when somebody of your own family dies - it really hurts. This might be a somewhat corny comparison, but what I mean is, nobody is expecting YOU to feel the anger of those who do have focusing problems - so you don't have to say this in a post. Just ignore these threads.

PS. I don't want an argument with you - I just want to vent my anger. :-)

--
Tommy
 
There needs to be a standard set for this, such as distance from target, the target itself etc bceause if I shot that Sigma at minimum focal distance (which is 10-feet) and a 100-400IS at infinity , I'm sure Sigma would sell out of 170-500s ;-) ..

It SHOULDN'T be the case that lenses are softer at infinity (unless they're macro lenses) but believe me, if that 170-500 is as sharp at infinity as it is at close range, It's a Keeper and balls to the 50-500EX, 100-400L etc - I can't see it though, can you??

Some more tests from yesterday (I got rained off my shoot, today also) so was shooting everything with the 550EX, tripod and better beamer at 500mm..

And MAC - I'll make a large test sheet so corners can be seen also

here are some preliminary 100% crops, I've had better ones since!.. Sigma 170-500 Wide open at 500mm close range, straight out of the 10D on standard settings, JPG fine.... Remember that this lens has no street cred at all apart from on one review site where everyone raves about it optically



--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

..Zero..to..Shot..Taken..in..16,000th..of..a..second----> EOS 1D

The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->

http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/

 
How true.
Tommy Wirestam said:
...how passionate YOU would be if YOUR camera had these problems.
And continued to show them even after repeated calibrations by
Canon.

It's like reading about an earthquake on the other side of the
planet with 5000 casualties. Of course it's terrible, but you're
not really affected. But when somebody of your own family dies - it
really hurts. This might be a somewhat corny comparison, but what I
mean is, nobody is expecting YOU to feel the anger of those who do
have focusing problems - so you don't have to say this in a post.
Just ignore these threads.

PS. I don't want an argument with you - I just want to vent my
anger. :-)

--
Tommy
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
So far, I'm convinced that many "infinity softness" issues are simply due to the inability to get good focus at those distances.
Adam-T said:
There needs to be a standard set for this, such as distance from
target, the target itself etc bceause if I shot that Sigma at
minimum focal distance (which is 10-feet) and a 100-400IS at
infinity , I'm sure Sigma would sell out of 170-500s ;-) ..

It SHOULDN'T be the case that lenses are softer at infinity (unless
they're macro lenses) but believe me, if that 170-500 is as sharp
at infinity as it is at close range, It's a Keeper and balls to the
50-500EX, 100-400L etc - I can't see it though, can you??

Some more tests from yesterday (I got rained off my shoot, today
also) so was shooting everything with the 550EX, tripod and better
beamer at 500mm..

And MAC - I'll make a large test sheet so corners can be seen also

here are some preliminary 100% crops, I've had better ones since!..
Sigma 170-500 Wide open at 500mm close range, straight out of the
10D on standard settings, JPG fine.... Remember that this lens has
no street cred at all apart from on one review site where everyone
raves about it optically
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
... of some of their Nikon or Fuji owning buddies or even some desperate salespeople who don't have 10Ds on hand to sell but have plenty of D100s or S2s. Just a guess. ;-)

I think it noteworthy that we've had at least two people who work in Camera sales state that they've not received any 10Ds back for focus problems yet they're virtually ignored. Let someone here claim to have a focus problem and the spotlight is blinding.
 
And have the Prism Focussing screen on order so no excuses there ;-) ......

I've had well over 20-years shooting Pentax cameras in all sorts of conditions using my sight and the magic spot, Heck, I could even MF an Olymnpus E10 - LOL - so we'll see with that Sigma and it's abilities at infinity -

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

..Zero..to..Shot..Taken..in..16,000th..of..a..second----> EOS 1D

The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->

http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/

 
Proud Dad said:
2. Canon determines it is not a common problem, but is concerned
about the mania brewing and they take some action. It is useless
to have a press announcement saying there is no problem (no one
believed the German statements), so they take the offensive and say
"No problem, identified that it is an Internet hysteria - found a
bunch of people who don't even own the camera and yet make claims
and derogatory comments about it, this has irreparably damaged
Canon, etc. etc.
Click to expand...
But these same people provide disclaimers that they cannot be held liable for those who decide to not buy a 10D due to their derrogatory comments here.
 
Terry Sessford said:
DrMark said:
DavidP said:
I'm sure we could find any AF issues in the Nikon system, if given
the opportunity to do so.
Steve Haehnichen said:
While my own 10D seems to have perfectly fine AF, I'm surprised at
the widespread knowledge of the "AF Problem" even in non-techies.

This weekend I met a guy looking to get his second digital camera.
"I like the Canon cameras, but I hear they have mixed-up
autofocus." He didn't even know which model, just heard that Canon
can't get autofocus right.

I wouldn't think much of it, except that this is the THIRD time
I've heard comments like this from people much less obsessed than
us here in the forum. We're not talking about measurebators any
more -- these are folks thinking of making the stretch into SLR and
doing a few google searches. The first thing they find is
thousands of debating messages about AF this and that.

Canon needs to get their head out of the sand, make some public
statements, and say "Here is our AutoFocus specification. If we
sell a camera that doesn't measure up, we will fix it."
Calibrating each lens, hiding the service manual, second and third
return trips to service -- disavowing any problem is souring their
reputation.
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Pete Cockerell said:
John Davis said:
I seriously doubt it. I have handled a number of 10Ds and I'm still
waiting to see one with a problem.

This is a phenomenon of the Internet age. Everything gets amplified
and generalized.
Click to expand...
That's a bit of a generalization, isn't it?
Click to expand...
NOW we're worried about "generalization"? Isn't claiming "THE 10D HAS AF PROBLEMS" based on the claims of a few people a generalization? Apparently not but dispelling it is. Go figure.
 
bdinnerv said:
As a person that is looking to buy new DSLR, i have done the usual
research all over, and was initially going to buy a 10D, but due to
all the comments re AF (i do sports photography, so is a bit of a
concern) i have decided i am not going to buy a 10D - 1 less sale
of the 10D.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't be allowing this forum to make your decision against buyijng a 10D for you? DavidP has said that anyone who does that is an "idiot". I'm not bashing David but this is a case in point and not the only one available. I've said that this forum is having a negative impact on sales of the 10D because of all the negativity surround the "10D AF issue" postings and David has said that it isn't.
 
Mario Georgiou said:
I'm very happy with most of the results from my Canon D60 ... were
I an owner of a 10D and it had the focussing Issues I'd be a little
annoyed at the manufacturer if they weren't forthcoming with a fix
for a camera that should work. Workarounds and such are just so
much nonsense ... You can be certain that if the Camera was a car
with steering issues which occasionally didn't let you steer
properly ... the whole lot would have been recalled. There is a
"loud" vocal minority of folks who have rightly complained about
what they have experienced with the 10D. Canon should fix the
problem and no doubt they are doing so albeit slowly and quietly. I
do hope that the next camera they release will have the issues
dealt with and be an improvement on the 10D ... I for one will most
likely be a buyer of such a unit.
Click to expand...
And how would Canon go about with this "recall". It's obviously not a large enough number of units to justify it nor does it seem to follow a certain lot or series range so the "bad" units can't be isolated. So what do they do? Invite anyone who has a suspected AF issue to send their camera in for repair? They're doing that now.
 
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