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7D mk2 problems, please help

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shortyUK

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Hi i really need some help here with my 7d mk2. First of all i think its best to tell you about myself and my experience , and skill level, ive been into photography for about 6 years, and i mainly shoot landscapes . My main camera is a 6D, which i love, the quality of the images are superb, and ive happily shot milky way shots etc up to ISO 6400, and the noise has been minimal. So in short i love the 6D, however ive always loved wildlife , so i bought the sigma 150-600 c, and used it with the 6D, i took some bird photos wich i was quite pleased with, even BIF with the 6D.

However i was having to crop the images so much, and the basic focus system of the 6D was letting me down for BIF, that i thought the answer to all my problems was the 7D mk2.Ive had the camera now about 3 weeks, and to be honest, im having a pretty miserable time with it. Firstly , just can not get the autofocus system to be consistant, on any settings, ive tried all the case scenarios, and tinkered with the individual settings etc, it still gets it wrong more often then not. Then i thought i would try and calibrate the lens, so i bought the spyder lens cal tool, but because the lens is F5, all of the scale is in focus, so im thinking this tool is only any good for fast lenses, maybe F2.8 and wider. The other thing is that an average day here in northumberland in the UK is quite gloomy in the winter, ive taken the camera out a few times lately, and every time i take a shot, im having to go to at least ISO 3200, to get a decent exposure, the image quality on this camera really suffers at this setting, where on the 6D it would be fine. I know i can not expext the same image quality from an aps-c sensor, but im starting to wonder if the 7D is so limited for my use, that it might just be better to sell , and rent good quality canon glass for the times i shoot wildlife.

ps im not a canon hater , or a troll, i love my 6D and all my canon lenses, im a genuine guy thats at the end of his tether, here is my flickr account, where you can see my images, both with the 6D and 7D, thanks, alan

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www.flickr.com
 
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shortyUK said:
Im going to stick at it though, i think when the weather improves , i will rent a good canon lens, and see how it turns out
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When you compare results you might match focal lengths to get the full story. Buying 600mm of Canon glass can be a spendy proposition. I think you might find that the Sigma at 400mm is pretty good, easier to use and is a good value for the price and versatility of the full zoom range.

Don
 
shortyUK said:
thanks alistair, yes it probably is the moron behind the lens, i do feel though that all the marketing claims have been a bit over the top, after all it sems most BIF shooters are using centre point or expanded centre point focusing, does this not defeat the object of such a complex system, that should be able to detect fast moving objects entering the frame etc?, Im going to stick at it though, i think when the weather improves , i will rent a good canon lens, and see how it turns out
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Not a moron at all. But, as I said, the 7DII takes a bit of getting used to. You're right that a lot of the time people use center point, with or without expansion, but even there, the 7DII is better than any other camera I've used. Where zone or full 65 point comes into its own is with birds against a relatively uncluttered background. It is puzzling that some people don't seem to get the full sharpness that they want. It might be that their cameras are faulty, or it might be technique. I've seen pin sharp birds in flight from this camera by other photographers, so I know it's capable of it. As I'm sure you know, you need a really high shutter speed to get pixel level sharpness, and a lens that can cope with it. Do you know whether the IS (or OS) on the Sigma detects panning? Or does it have a separate mode for panning (like mode 2 IS on Canon lenses)?
 
shortyUK said:
thanks alistair, yes it probably is the moron behind the lens, i do feel though that all the marketing claims have been a bit over the top, after all it sems most BIF shooters are using centre point or expanded centre point focusing, does this not defeat the object of such a complex system, that should be able to detect fast moving objects entering the frame etc?, Im going to stick at it though, i think when the weather improves , i will rent a good canon lens, and see how it turns out
Click to expand...
My experience is with the Tamron 150-600 as a BIF newbie and some of experiences were as follows:
  • Expectation - far away moving birds at high ISOs will never not be as sharp as tripod based, focus stacked macro shots. Ok, so glaringly obvious but the point being that we evaluate sharpness somewhat based on prior experiences, and landscape is closer to macro than to BIF
  • The Tamron needed a firmware upgrade as did the 7D2. I sent the combination to Tamron and it back much improved.
  • I also took the UV filter off based on based forum suggestions.
  • IS at least on the Tamron seems to do 2.5 to 3 stops and in some cases downright does not help.
  • Getting good practice with birds is hard due to subject availability
  • Light direction and levels leave a lot to be desired, and the Tamron is not the sharpest wide open at 600
  • I found that handling the big lens takes some getting used to
  • DOF wide open is so, so shallow that minor (human) focus point errors can result in misses
With respect to the 7D2:
  • The different focus modes are intended for other, non BIF use cases such as runners/cyclists etc.
  • For BIF, based on forum comments, center+expansion seems to the most common use case (but does require care in keeping the bird in center)
  • Cases seem to have marginal effect and sticking to case 1 is best until you've worked out the other parameters
  • Complexity is a (user) issue - between cases, tracking and focus points, there are many options to make shooting hard until you settle in some of those (not to forget exposure etc)
  • There is no established testing methodology but I would recommend shooting cars coming towards you and also going across to do some basic testing of focus and tracking
I love the 7D2 for it breadth of capabilities (including simple things like flash exposure lock which is a special favorite). If I had to do it again I would probably get the 100-400 rather than the Tamron just to eliminate one variable from the equation.

--
Safety Warning: Bad taste unmitigated by moderate skill
 
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yes alistair it has a seperate mode for panning, mode 1 is reccomended for hand holding, i have also tried it with the OS turned off, the results were pretty similar!
 
shortyUK said:
i thought the answer to all my problems was the 7D mk2.Ive had the camera now about 3 weeks, and to be honest, im having a pretty miserable time with it. Firstly , just can not get the autofocus system to be consistant, on any settings
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What settings?

There are SO many and they are not self-evident on the 7D2, you might well be digging your own grave trying to get too fancy with them. I'd reset the camera back (using the menu item) and start very simple, use the green square, then use single shot AF without making a bunch of settings changes and see what your luck is.

I know that people have had problems with 7D2's that needed to be fixed; on the other hand I have a 7D, not as elaborate as 7D2 but still beyond most typical DSLR's in its AF settings, and I don't use it nearly enough to really get fancy with the AF settings.

It's a very complex camera to master and it's easy to go astray.
 
I didn't have a chance to look at your photos, but here's a couple of observations from what I've read in this thread.

1. Every new camera has a learning curve. Literally every camera I've purchased has taken a bit to get consistent images. This has been true with the 40D, 1D3, 1D4, and now the 7D2. The 7D2 is really complex. I just got one and have taken it out once. I will say that it tracks faster than my 1D4.

2. Keep shutter speeds HIGH for birds. I rarely get a good BIF (or sitting) under 1/1000s. The faster the better. Birds make a lot of small, fast moves. Most of the "my photo is soft" pictures of birds I've seen look like subtle motion blur.

3. Get Closer. You should endeavor to have 75% of the bird in the frame if possible. The more you crop, the more detail you lose, and the softer the photo looks.

4. USE A TRIPOD! Hand holding at 600mm and getting sharp photos is extremely difficult. I use a 500 f4L IS (often with a 1.4) and almost always lug a tripod even though I am perfectly capable of hand holding the combo. Make sure it's a sturdy one as well with a good head. It makes all the difference.

5. 3rd Party lenses present challenges. Remember that they have to reverse engineer the electronics. I've read many cases where the camera/lens combo has to be sent to the lens manufacturer for calibration. I believe Sigma will do this for free. I'm not saying that they're "junk" or anything like that. I love Sigma and Tamron lenses. Just be aware you may have more issues than the Canon equiv.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bernarrking;
http://www.bkingphoto.com
 
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I've had the 7DII and Sigma 150-600C for about 5 months now, I had a month or two to use it before the light faded, I'm in North Yorkshire so I feel your pain, I've concluded a few things with this combo. The lens is pretty good up to around 450mm, beyond that it's hard to hand hold and gets softer, f8 seems to be the good aperture, but of course you're then looking at very high iso to have a reasonable shutter speed. We all naturally want to use lower iso, but this combo has its limitations, slow aperture lens on a crop body and poor light do not make for good hand holding. I decided this isn't viable for British winter time so the lens is sat on the shelf waiting for March to arrive.......I'm accepting that at this price point i'll get 7 or 8 months use out of it each year and avoid the frustration of trying to use it in poor light.

I think the 7DII is a fine camera, but it really needs a fast long lens to be a year round camera for wildlife.
 
thanks for your input, im feeling the same now to be honest, i went out today in some woodland to shoot some long tailed tits, and when i got there , i just thought whats the point!!, the ISO above 800 is noisy, and another thing ive found today is that in low light , this thing will just not focus, i could of put my 6D body on today and got great shots, faster focus in poor light, and wouldnt even have to think about ISO, to be honest, i cant see me taking to this camera at all, i just dont get any pleasure using it!!
 
Hi hope you stick with it heres one i got at iso 500 not a great day




yellow billed kite
 

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you sound like an experienced photographer..but the canon 7D mark II is new camera and you should follow the basic rule..read the manual 2 times to learn about the camera ..oh by the way did i mention to read the maual 3 times.

hope this help
 
shortyUK said:
thanks for your input, im feeling the same now to be honest, i went out today in some woodland to shoot some long tailed tits, and when i got there , i just thought whats the point!!, the ISO above 800 is noisy, and another thing ive found today is that in low light , this thing will just not focus, i could of put my 6D body on today and got great shots, faster focus in poor light, and wouldnt even have to think about ISO, to be honest, i cant see me taking to this camera at all, i just dont get any pleasure using it!!
Click to expand...
Maybe your other photography experience is making things harder for you. I get lots of shots at ISOs of 1600 to 3200 on my 7Dm2 that are quite usable, if you get the exposure right and ettr. Also, the 7DM2 is a least as good as the 6D at focusing in low-light - they both go down to -3EV on the center point. I'm sorry things are not going well with you and the 7DM2. Funny thing is I started my experience with bird photography using the 6D and moved on to the 70D and then the 7DM2. I still use the 6D on those really gloomy days here in SC, though, but I grab the 7DM2 anytime the sun is out. On a really gloomy day even the 6D is not enough to get pleasing images of birds either perch or flying. Birds are one subject that kinda demands good light if you want sharp images.
 
RogerZoul said:
shortyUK said:
... the ISO above 800 is noisy, and another ...
Click to expand...
.. I get lots of shots at ISOs of 1600 to 3200 on my 7Dm2 that are quite usable, if you get the exposure right and ettr. ...
Click to expand...


ISO 6400 - the issue is mostly shadow noise in my experience

1df0419da4ef4cf0a6f6d8acc5f133b9.jpg



--
Safety Warning: Bad taste unmitigated by moderate skill
 
RogerZoul said:
shortyUK said:
thanks for your input, im feeling the same now to be honest, i went out today in some woodland to shoot some long tailed tits, and when i got there , i just thought whats the point!!, the ISO above 800 is noisy, and another thing ive found today is that in low light , this thing will just not focus, i could of put my 6D body on today and got great shots, faster focus in poor light, and wouldnt even have to think about ISO, to be honest, i cant see me taking to this camera at all, i just dont get any pleasure using it!!
Click to expand...
Maybe your other photography experience is making things harder for you. I get lots of shots at ISOs of 1600 to 3200 on my 7Dm2 that are quite usable, if you get the exposure right and ettr. Also, the 7DM2 is a least as good as the 6D at focusing in low-light - they both go down to -3EV on the center point. I'm sorry things are not going well with you and the 7DM2. Funny thing is I started my experience with bird photography using the 6D and moved on to the 70D and then the 7DM2. I still use the 6D on those really gloomy days here in SC, though, but I grab the 7DM2 anytime the sun is out. On a really gloomy day even the 6D is not enough to get pleasing images of birds either perch or flying. Birds are one subject that kinda demands good light if you want sharp images.
Click to expand...
Shooting in northern winter conditions can be very challenging, much different than SC. The lower temperatures greatly influence the atmospheric quality and seem to affect the 7D II that I use. For instance, at minus 15C shooting a perched owl on a fence pole 60 feet away, around midday, it was impossible to get a good shot with 560mm f/5.6 and the 7D II. I even tried live view and also manual focus. At that distance the air ruined the Image quality. In live view and using 10x magnification autofocus, the camera would focus and light the green box on the LCD when it was clearly way out of focus. There was seemingly, plenty of contrast on the short eared owl. It focused better when the focus square wasn't zoomed and included a bit of the background but the resultant images were still poor.
 
thanks to everyone whos took time to post on here, offering me advice , and showing sample images, i intend to stick with the camera, and try some different lenses, and also to try and improve as a wildlife photographer, hopefully i will be able to post in a few months about how good the 7D mk2 is, cheers, alan
 
shortyUK said:
thanks for your input, im feeling the same now to be honest, i went out today in some woodland to shoot some long tailed tits, and when i got there , i just thought whats the point!!, the ISO above 800 is noisy, and another thing ive found today is that in low light , this thing will just not focus, i could of put my 6D body on today and got great shots, faster focus in poor light, and wouldnt even have to think about ISO, to be honest, i cant see me taking to this camera at all, i just dont get any pleasure using it!!
Click to expand...
I often take shots at over ISO 800 and I can't say I'm too worried about noise.

ISO 6400
https://flic.kr/p/Agths8

As long as the image is correctly exposed, so not requiring lots of post adjustment, you can get away with some high ISO's.

The AF performance is probably more down to the lens than the camera I would bet.

As I said earlier the Tamron 150-600 was pants at AF on both my 5D3 and 7D, the 100-400 with 1.4x was better! I used to have to manually focus first and it was like the AF/Lens would go, 'you want me to focus on that frame filling Gannet, why did't you say so?' It would then track it of a second and lose it leaving me with a totally OOF image in the viewfinder!' How that lens never ended up at the base of Bempton Cliffs I don't know! :)

A third party lens is probably never going to give the AF performance of a Canon lens when attempting something like BIF's. The Tamron was brilliant at perched birds and performed really quite well, anything moving and it was a nightmare.

But practice is the only way to get better, my first aircraft shots were rubbish I seem to have improved a bit by practicing :)
 
artistguy said:
II think the 7DII is a fine camera, but it really needs a fast long lens to be a year round camera for wildlife.
Click to expand...
That may depend a little on what the wild life is doing when the photo is snapped or maybe on the temperature of the winter day.

32569aa0a8124a06ad261335a1c144f3.jpg

Sky moderate overcast, temperature about 40 F, handheld 3 days ago.

The snag the bird is perched on is on the edge of Yaquina Head, a headland that juts out into the Pacific. It is to the right of the two people on the right hand path below. The camera location for the peregrine photo was about where those people are on the path near the light.

e480f7168d53455ba95cd7ceef5cea74.jpg

Immediately behind the peregrine is about a 160 foot drop off to the water. Nearby rocks and the water itself are frequently populated by numerous birds representing a smorgasbord for raptors. Farther behind, in the background are trees on the hills north of the head. The lighthouse is few yards behind.

Don
 
riknash said:
riknash said:
shortyUK said:
thanks for your input, im feeling the same now to be honest, i went out today in some woodland to shoot some long tailed tits, and when i got there , i just thought whats the point!!, the ISO above 800 is noisy, and another thing ive found today is that in low light , this thing will just not focus, i could of put my 6D body on today and got great shots, faster focus in poor light, and wouldnt even have to think about ISO, to be honest, i cant see me taking to this camera at all, i just dont get any pleasure using it!!
Click to expand...
Shooting in northern winter conditions can be very challenging, much different than SC. The lower temperatures greatly influence the atmospheric quality and seem to affect the 7D II that I use. For instance, at minus 15C shooting a perched owl on a fence pole 60 feet away, around midday, it was impossible to get a good shot with 560mm f/5.6 and the 7D II. I even tried live view and also manual focus. At that distance the air ruined the Image quality. In live view and using 10x magnification autofocus, the camera would focus and light the green box on the LCD when it was clearly way out of focus. There was seemingly, plenty of contrast on the short eared owl. It focused better when the focus square wasn't zoomed and included a bit of the background but the resultant images were still poor.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Interesting, I was wondering, had AF problems when shooting on overcast and cold North-West European winter days.

The last 6 years I didn't have this experience with my 7D. In my case, it seems like the 7D2 is more light dependent than the 7D.

The increase in image quality makes up for the focusing issues, the 7D2 has better colors and the sensor is definitely able to pull more detail out of a bird. Not much noise improvement but reduction seems easier.

But still, maybe 40% sharp images in low light is not what I expected, compared to the 60% of my 7D.

--
TheBlackGrouse
Active outdoor photographer, trying to become better, studying user experience.
 
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