Underexposing concern 6d w/ 24-105L

Criv80 · Oct 6, 2015

Hi all, First time posting but have been lurking for quite some time.

I've recently bought a 6d to go full frame after selling my 70d. I have been shooting with the 6d since July trying to adjust to the new camera and settings.

I am having one strange issue and was wondering if anyone may have experienced the same? When I shoot with the kit 24-105L lens, I notice very unpredictable exposure metering where everything seems to be under exposed based on the in camera reflective metering suggestions. It doesn't matter what metering mode I use or what setting, M, AV, TV etc. the end result is dark or missed shots at events and sessions. It doesn't happen every time, but only in contrasting light/dark scenarios. I never noticed this issue with any other canon DSLR camera I've owned.

Now, if I switch lenses to any other lenses I own, I do not notice this concern and all images seem to be properly exposed based off the in camera meters recommendations. My other lenses consist of the old nifty 50, canon 85 f1.8 and canon 70-200 f2.8 IS II.

I originally thought maybe the 24-105 lens had a flaw so I returned it and got another brand new one. Same issue still present. I read someone that maybe there is a software issue that the camera cannot read the reflecting metering properly though the 24-105 glass. My other thought was some type of general metering issue.

I do know this is tough without picture examples or histograms to see, so I will try and post a few tonight when I get back home.

Thanks all for your time in reading this long post. If I left anything out, please ask and I'll address any other experience or explanation I may have forgotten to add.

-Craig

Atoche · Oct 6, 2015

what type of metering are you using? (spot, center, ect)...

Steve_tEkGuY · Oct 6, 2015

Criv80 said:
Hi all, First time posting but have been lurking for quite some time.

I've recently bought a 6d to go full frame after selling my 70d. I have been shooting with the 6d since July trying to adjust to the new camera and settings.

I am having one strange issue and was wondering if anyone may have experienced the same? When I shoot with the kit 24-105L lens, I notice very unpredictable exposure metering where everything seems to be under exposed based on the in camera reflective metering suggestions. It doesn't matter what metering mode I use or what setting, M, AV, TV etc. the end result is dark or missed shots at events and sessions. It doesn't happen every time, but only in contrasting light/dark scenarios. I never noticed this issue with any other canon DSLR camera I've owned.

Now, if I switch lenses to any other lenses I own, I do not notice this concern and all images seem to be properly exposed based off the in camera meters recommendations. My other lenses consist of the old nifty 50, canon 85 f1.8 and canon 70-200 f2.8 IS II.

I originally thought maybe the 24-105 lens had a flaw so I returned it and got another brand new one. Same issue still present. I read someone that maybe there is a software issue that the camera cannot read the reflecting metering properly though the 24-105 glass. My other thought was some type of general metering issue.

I do know this is tough without picture examples or histograms to see, so I will try and post a few tonight when I get back home.

Thanks all for your time in reading this long post. If I left anything out, please ask and I'll address any other experience or explanation I may have forgotten to add.

-Craig

i had the same issue from day which was almost 7 or 8 years ago. if you Google this issue you will see its the lens and not the body. I had the same on my 70D and 6D with the same 24-105 lens.

under exposes about 1/2 stop - lots of other complaints on this same observation on Dpreview and other forums

I recall reading somewhere a while back the T stop is at 4.9 for this lens

J A C S · Oct 6, 2015

Steve_tEkGuY said:
i had the same issue from day which was almost 7 or 8 years ago. if you Google this issue you will see its the lens and not the body. I had the same on my 70D and 6D with the same 24-105 lens.

under exposes about 1/2 stop - lots of other complaints on this same observation on Dpreview and other forums

I recall reading somewhere a while back the T stop is at 4.9 for this lens

Google "moon made of cheese".

I own this lens and own and use many more. There is no underexposing problem with this lens on all the bodies I have used in on; and I also used a second copy in the past. What the OP describes is unusual for this lens.

J A C S · Oct 6, 2015

Please post some samples. Also, in evaluative mode, the exposure depends heavily on the active AF point.

RyanBoston · Oct 6, 2015

It's the lens. Not every 24-105 does it, but I had a few copies that were awful. I'm surprised that Canon marked it an L lens.

MutantLabs · Oct 7, 2015

All I can say is that I have the feeling (no scientific analysis yet) than my 24-105/4 underexposes way more than my 24-70/2.8 II. It may be the lens, maybe the lower max aperture of the lens in combination with the body, maybe user error. My 6D's tendency to underexpose emphasizes this even more.

I am currently switching to proper manual exposure using spot metering instead of Av and Evaluative metering to get more predictable results. When doing this, the results do not seem to be so much (if at all) lens-dependent.

My findings so far: Cameras cannot see color (see: white balance) nor can they see light (see: exposure) correctly in far more circumstances than I thought.

--
www.flickr.com/mutantlabs

CameraCarl · Oct 7, 2015

One man's perspective: one of the joys of digital photography is that I no longer have to worry about "overexposure" or "underexposure." Regardless of what lens or camera I am using, I look at the histogram before and after each series of shots and if the data is within the boundaries of the histogram, it is "properly exposed." I don't care how much exposure compensation I have dialed in. This is so much easier than in the days of slide film where I needed to calibrate each new body and lens by running one or more rolls of film through it to see how much compensation I needed to make for the minor variances in metering systems from camera to camera. So if the OP is finding his camera/lens combination underexposes, simply set a +1/2 or 1 or whatever exposure compensation when mounting the lens and be done with it.

ppires85 · Oct 7, 2015

Criv80 said:
Hi all, First time posting but have been lurking for quite some time.

I've recently bought a 6d to go full frame after selling my 70d. I have been shooting with the 6d since July trying to adjust to the new camera and settings.

I am having one strange issue and was wondering if anyone may have experienced the same? When I shoot with the kit 24-105L lens, I notice very unpredictable exposure metering where everything seems to be under exposed based on the in camera reflective metering suggestions. It doesn't matter what metering mode I use or what setting, M, AV, TV etc. the end result is dark or missed shots at events and sessions. It doesn't happen every time, but only in contrasting light/dark scenarios. I never noticed this issue with any other canon DSLR camera I've owned.

Now, if I switch lenses to any other lenses I own, I do not notice this concern and all images seem to be properly exposed based off the in camera meters recommendations. My other lenses consist of the old nifty 50, canon 85 f1.8 and canon 70-200 f2.8 IS II.

I originally thought maybe the 24-105 lens had a flaw so I returned it and got another brand new one. Same issue still present. I read someone that maybe there is a software issue that the camera cannot read the reflecting metering properly though the 24-105 glass. My other thought was some type of general metering issue.

I do know this is tough without picture examples or histograms to see, so I will try and post a few tonight when I get back home.

Thanks all for your time in reading this long post. If I left anything out, please ask and I'll address any other experience or explanation I may have forgotten to add.

-Craig

Well, I'll place my chips on the fact that you might have longer lenses than 50mm alternative to 24-105mm. Also, that your metering problems are happening specially at wide focal lengths. It is a common learning experience when moving to full frame.

The lens affects metering only through transmission, but not by providing biased metering. That's a sensor thing. It makes no sense.

I also have 24-105mm and never had such problems. That's a slow lens considering light, but wrong exposure is user issue unless there's a problem with the sensor.

Another thing you should be aware of is that different cameras will have the light metering working on different ways with distinct algorithms. You can't use your 6d thinking that it is going to measure light the same way.

Criv80 · Oct 7, 2015

My main concern is sometimes at shoots, I don't have time to take 2 photos one of which is reading a histogram or recomposing EV, by that time the split second shot I wanted is gone.

Here are some examples of photos. All Jpegs straight out of the camera, no editing.

Sample one 24-105L, AV mode using in camera metering bar at 0. 32mm, ISO 200, f/8.0, 1/500 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

sample two24-105L, AV mode with my corrections. 35mm, ISO 200, f/8.0, 1/250 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

Now these next two will be comparing apples to oranges since I used two different lenses. First image is shot with the 24-105L and the second image is shot with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II. I know the focal ranges will have some type of effect, but I feel I don't have to compensate with the 70-200, I can just set my shot based off the in camera metering suggestions and shoot without worry of reconfiguring the settings for a proper shot.

Sample three, 24-105L, AV mode with in camera metering bar at 0, ISO 200, 28mm, f/6.3, 1/640 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

Sample four, 70-200 f/2.8 IS II, AV mode with in camera metering bar at 0, ISO 400, 95mm, f/5.0, 1/800 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

Criv80 · Oct 7, 2015

ppires85 said:
The lens affects metering only through transmission, but not by providing biased metering. That's a sensor thing. It makes no sense.

Can you explain this a little more, I'm not sure I fully understand.

And yes, I do expect a learning curve when going to a new camera lens combo. In the past I have used 24-105L lenses on my old 70d and don't remember this same thing I am experiencing, maybe I'm not explaining it correctly.

Victor Engel · Oct 7, 2015

Criv80 said:
My main concern is sometimes at shoots, I don't have time to take 2 photos one of which is reading a histogram or recomposing EV, by that time the split second shot I wanted is gone.

Here are some examples of photos. All Jpegs straight out of the camera, no editing.

Sample one 24-105L, AV mode using in camera metering bar at 0. 32mm, ISO 200, f/8.0, 1/500 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

sample two24-105L, AV mode with my corrections. 35mm, ISO 200, f/8.0, 1/250 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

In the above example, are you perhaps assuming the Volkswagen is closer to neutral grey than it actually is? Judging by your second picture, which I presume you feel to be accurate, it's significantly lighter than neutral grey. Thus, with it as well as the substantial amount of bright cloud cover, I would expect to have to dial in some positive exposure compensation.

Criv80 said:
Now these next two will be comparing apples to oranges since I used two different lenses. First image is shot with the 24-105L and the second image is shot with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II. I know the focal ranges will have some type of effect, but I feel I don't have to compensate with the 70-200, I can just set my shot based off the in camera metering suggestions and shoot without worry of reconfiguring the settings for a proper shot.

Sample three, 24-105L, AV mode with in camera metering bar at 0, ISO 200, 28mm, f/6.3, 1/640 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

Sample four, 70-200 f/2.8 IS II, AV mode with in camera metering bar at 0, ISO 400, 95mm, f/5.0, 1/800 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

Here the composition is entirely different. In the first image, the presence of flare provides obvious evidence that the sun was actually in the frame - or at least close enough that with the surrounding bright sky, it could cause a significant exposure issue.

I'd suggest when comparing these two lenses to each other in regard to exposure, you set up a subject with the same focal length and same framing. This will rule out this sort of framing issue as a factor.

--
Victor Engel

J A C S · Oct 7, 2015

Criv80 said:
My main concern is sometimes at shoots, I don't have time to take 2 photos one of which is reading a histogram or recomposing EV, by that time the split second shot I wanted is gone.

Here are some examples of photos. All Jpegs straight out of the camera, no editing.

Sample one 24-105L, AV mode using in camera metering bar at 0. 32mm, ISO 200, f/8.0, 1/500 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

You used evaluative metering and the center AF point. The center falls on a bright spot and the metering lower the exposure.

Criv80 said:
sample two24-105L, AV mode with my corrections. 35mm, ISO 200, f/8.0, 1/250 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

I am not sure what the corrections were but the AF point is between a bright and a dark area. Metering is still evaluative.

Criv80 said:
Now these next two will be comparing apples to oranges since I used two different lenses. First image is shot with the 24-105L and the second image is shot with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II. I know the focal ranges will have some type of effect, but I feel I don't have to compensate with the 70-200, I can just set my shot based off the in camera metering suggestions and shoot without worry of reconfiguring the settings for a proper shot.

Sample three, 24-105L, AV mode with in camera metering bar at 0, ISO 200, 28mm, f/6.3, 1/640 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

Again, focus on a bright spot, and you will get a dark photo. The AF pint is very close to the shiny reflections which are actually blown.

Criv80 said:
Sample four, 70-200 f/2.8 IS II, AV mode with in camera metering bar at 0, ISO 400, 95mm, f/5.0, 1/800 sec, pattern metering, no flash.

Why ISO 400? There is no sky in the photo, AF point is on a different place.

Criv80 said:

Metering in evaluative is heavily dependent on the active AF point, not exactly like spot metering but "close". Try to get AF at neutral spots.

Steve_tEkGuY · Oct 7, 2015

J A C S said:
Steve_tEkGuY said:

i had the same issue from day which was almost 7 or 8 years ago. if you Google this issue you will see its the lens and not the body. I had the same on my 70D and 6D with the same 24-105 lens.

under exposes about 1/2 stop - lots of other complaints on this same observation on Dpreview and other forums

I recall reading somewhere a while back the T stop is at 4.9 for this lens

Click to expand...

Google "moon made of cheese".

I own this lens and own and use many more. There is no underexposing problem with this lens on all the bodies I have used in on; and I also used a second copy in the past. What the OP describes is unusual for this lens.

I'm just stating that others including myself have noticed that there is an under exposure issue with some of the 24-105 lenses. My lens was purchased in the first year it came out. Its a great lens overall but I dial it in + 1/2 stop.

To prove my point I pinned it against my 16-35 F4 just now. Both lenses at 35mm F4 and manually exposed with the same settings. I also included the exif data for each file. You can import into Photoshop where it also states the 24-105 is under expose compared to my 16-35 or compared to my other lenses.

the Jpgs are clearly labeled based on lens and also the text files based on lens. In fact the exif data shows that the 16-35 second measured EV is higher than the 24-105. 8 vs 7.75

Even though both lenses were set to 35mm and report 35mm in the exif data you can see a slight difference in the zoom. Please don't account this difference for the exposure as I know my lens and have been using it for many years so I can say with confidence my lens needs that 1/2 stop dialed in.

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

If you get a login just click the X. Its dropbox way to try and sign up new customers.

I was just trying to share my findings with the OP and also what i found when I started looking into this possible exposure issue with my lens.

Steve

J A C S · Oct 7, 2015

Steve_tEkGuY said:
J A C S said:

Steve_tEkGuY said:

i had the same issue from day which was almost 7 or 8 years ago. if you Google this issue you will see its the lens and not the body. I had the same on my 70D and 6D with the same 24-105 lens.

under exposes about 1/2 stop - lots of other complaints on this same observation on Dpreview and other forums

I recall reading somewhere a while back the T stop is at 4.9 for this lens

Click to expand...

Google "moon made of cheese".

I own this lens and own and use many more. There is no underexposing problem with this lens on all the bodies I have used in on; and I also used a second copy in the past. What the OP describes is unusual for this lens.

Click to expand...

I'm just stating that others including myself have noticed that there is an under exposure issue with some of the 24-105 lenses. My lens was purchased in the first year it came out. Its a great lens overall but I dial it in + 1/2 stop.

To prove my point I pinned it against my 16-35 F4 just now. Both lenses at 35mm F4 and manually exposed with the same settings.

How does in prove that one lens (with the body) exposes differently than the other? You should have let the camera expose automatically. You only show that one lens is slightly darker than the other, and the OP shows a much more pronounced differences?

Steve_tEkGuY said:
I also included the exif data for each file. You can import into Photoshop where it also states the 24-105 is under expose compared to my 16-35 or compared to my other lenses.

the Jpgs are clearly labeled based on lens and also the text files based on lens. In fact the exif data shows that the 16-35 second measured EV is higher than the 24-105. 8 vs 7.75

And then the camera would compensate for that.

Steve_tEkGuY said:
Even though both lenses were set to 35mm and report 35mm in the exif data you can see a slight difference in the zoom. Please don't account this difference for the exposure as I know my lens and have been using it for many years so I can say with confidence my lens needs that 1/2 stop dialed in.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wcea2qmoze6ngzw/AACAuwKyIY604kxwiq5PA21Za?dl=0

If you get a login just click the X. Its dropbox way to try and sign up new customers.

I was just trying to share my findings with the OP and also what i found when I started looking into this possible exposure issue with my lens.

I see, but the OP's problem is very different.

EDIT: Your full name is in the EXIF, you may want to remove it.

Steve_tEkGuY · Oct 7, 2015

J A C S said:
Steve_tEkGuY said:

J A C S said:

Steve_tEkGuY said:

i had the same issue from day which was almost 7 or 8 years ago. if you Google this issue you will see its the lens and not the body. I had the same on my 70D and 6D with the same 24-105 lens.

under exposes about 1/2 stop - lots of other complaints on this same observation on Dpreview and other forums

I recall reading somewhere a while back the T stop is at 4.9 for this lens

Click to expand...

Google "moon made of cheese".

I own this lens and own and use many more. There is no underexposing problem with this lens on all the bodies I have used in on; and I also used a second copy in the past. What the OP describes is unusual for this lens.

Click to expand...

I'm just stating that others including myself have noticed that there is an under exposure issue with some of the 24-105 lenses. My lens was purchased in the first year it came out. Its a great lens overall but I dial it in + 1/2 stop.

To prove my point I pinned it against my 16-35 F4 just now. Both lenses at 35mm F4 and manually exposed with the same settings.

Click to expand...

How does in prove that one lens (with the body) exposes differently than the other? You should have let the camera expose automatically. You only show that one lens is slightly darker than the other, and the OP shows a much more pronounced differences?

J A C S said:

I also included the exif data for each file. You can import into Photoshop where it also states the 24-105 is under expose compared to my 16-35 or compared to my other lenses.

the Jpgs are clearly labeled based on lens and also the text files based on lens. In fact the exif data shows that the 16-35 second measured EV is higher than the 24-105. 8 vs 7.75

Click to expand...

And then the camera would compensate for that.

J A C S said:

Even though both lenses were set to 35mm and report 35mm in the exif data you can see a slight difference in the zoom. Please don't account this difference for the exposure as I know my lens and have been using it for many years so I can say with confidence my lens needs that 1/2 stop dialed in.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wcea2qmoze6ngzw/AACAuwKyIY604kxwiq5PA21Za?dl=0

If you get a login just click the X. Its dropbox way to try and sign up new customers.

I was just trying to share my findings with the OP and also what i found when I started looking into this possible exposure issue with my lens.

Click to expand...

I see, but the OP's problem is very different.

EDIT: Your full name is in the EXIF, you may want to remove it.

Same test I used Aperture mode. Both lenses dialed in at 1/45 by the camera evaluative metering and I chose 5.6 Aperture to avoid any vignetting and yet the histogram shows the 24-105 is underexposed on the back of the camera and Photoshop compared to 16-35 lens.

Same value on both lenses yet the 24-105 seems to be darker. Again not by much mind you but its enough for me to dial up by 1/2 a stop.

Measured EV : 7.75

Target Aperture : 5.7

I posted both photos with the letter A and the end of the file name.

J A C S · Oct 7, 2015

Steve_tEkGuY said:
Same test I used Aperture mode. Both lenses dialed in at 1/45 by the camera evaluative metering and I chose 5.6 Aperture to avoid any vignetting and yet the histogram shows the 24-105 is underexposed on the back of the camera and Photoshop compared to 16-35 lens.

Same value on both lenses yet the 24-105 seems to be darker. Again not by much mind you but its enough for me to dial up by 1/2 a stop.

Measured EV : 7.75

Target Aperture : 5.7

I posted both photos with the letter A and the end of the file name.

Avoid vignetting? You might be surprised to find out which lens vignettes more, even at f/5.6. You have vignetting correction enabled.

In any case, those are minor differences compared to what the OP experienced.

No lens corrections here. The 24-105 vs. the 100L, evaluative exposure.

D00M · Oct 7, 2015

Based on the limited images posted by OP, I suspect the issue has nothing to with the lens but with Evaluative metering.

OP: With your 24-105 lens, you sometimes operate in the 24-50mm range, and you included more sky in your frame. The bright sky will reduce your exposure, and anything in the shade will appear underexposed.

On the other hand, when you use 50mm, 85mm, or 70-200mm, you have less sky in the frame compared to wide angle.

This is easy to test out. Put the camera on tripod. Set your 24-105, 70-200, and 85 lenses at 85mm. Take photos using Auto mode and manual mode (with identical shutter speed, aperture f/4 or smaller, and ISO). Then you know for sure. I bet you won't find any difference.

--
Flickr Photostream: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimmyk-photo/

rendezvousnz · Oct 8, 2015

If you want to confirm what you think is happening, shoot something that is one tone - such as a grey card, with two lenses, leaving the auto exposure the same. Compare the two images on the computer to see if they are the same brightness.

stratobill · Oct 8, 2015

Jimmy K. said:
Based on the limited images posted by OP, I suspect the issue has nothing to with the lens but with Evaluative metering.

OP: With your 24-105 lens, you sometimes operate in the 24-50mm range, and you included more sky in your frame. The bright sky will reduce your exposure, and anything in the shade will appear underexposed.

On the other hand, when you use 50mm, 85mm, or 70-200mm, you have less sky in the frame compared to wide angle.

This is easy to test out. Put the camera on tripod. Set your 24-105, 70-200, and 85 lenses at 85mm. Take photos using Auto mode and manual mode (with identical shutter speed, aperture f/4 or smaller, and ISO). Then you know for sure. I bet you won't find any difference.

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