(Poll) Do you charge for youth/amauter sports photos

(Poll) Do you charge for youth/amauter sports photos


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ZurichPhoto

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As we enter the high school sports season, just curious to see how many folks have a system in place to sell photos to parents throughout the season. Many (most?) of us here are amatuers -- some highly skilled, of course -- and some have a lot of money invested in gear. I've wondered about possibly offsetting some of these costs through image sales. Goal is not to make a profit but to offset the investment. Interested to hear how others approach this. Thanks.
 
BTW, I won't shoot if there's a competent photographer who's trying to make a living at it. But for many youth sports there's (maybe) a local newspaper guy and a batch of parents.

Also, any shots I provide I do via a free web site. I don't do printing for free, but if asked I will print at just a bit above cost.
 
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Shooting on spec is a dead market. On any given team of 25 players, I can guarantee you there are at least 2 moms with a digital Rebel and a 70-300 lens. She just knows in her heart that if she tries hard enough, she will get a great shot. In fact, she convinced her husband that it was worth it to spend all that money. No way is she gonna buy a photo from you.

Every 3rd team probably has a dad with a pro-sumer body and 70-200 pro-glass. He takes photos of every kid on his kids team, and burns a CD for people to share.

Finally, people are just too busy to sit down and scroll through several hundred photos looking for a good shot of their kid. All they want is a so-so photo to post to facebook

YMMV
 
I'm the dad with the prosumer body and 70-200, but I put the photos on Dropbox instead of a CD. I also do team portraits and the like. I'm trying to figure out if I should charge for prints or some such to offset the equipment cost and time shooting and editing, but of course the team is run by volunteers, too.
 
I'm the dad with the prosumer body and 70-200, but I put the photos on Dropbox instead of a CD. I also do team portraits and the like. I'm trying to figure out if I should charge for prints or some such to offset the equipment cost and time shooting and editing, but of course the team is run by volunteers, too.
 
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm toying with the idea of going professional. My connections to my kids' sports and school will help if I'm trying to take senior portraits and the like. But this is barely a step past a daydream at the moment.
 
I'm the dad with the prosumer body and 70-200, but I put the photos on Dropbox instead of a CD. I also do team portraits and the like. I'm trying to figure out if I should charge for prints or some such to offset the equipment cost and time shooting and editing, but of course the team is run by volunteers, too.

--
/s/ Rankin Johnson IV
-Fighting for justice, but I'll settle for a reversal.
I am one of those 70-200 too. I drop photos to OneDrive.
You will be lucky if by the end of the season parents take you for a couple of drinks.
Last couple of years I barely take pics of anyone but my kids and probably couple of their close friends.
Most parents don't care and would not even thank you. This gets worse as kids get older.

I do this for fun, still waiting for that spectacular picture I could print, frame and hang on the wall :)

--
I shoot JPEG, handheld
 
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BobK77 wrote:
...Most parents don't care and would not even thank you.
That's certainly been my experience, and since I don't take shots for my own gratification, this past season was more than likely my last. The parents can enjoy their cell phone shots taken from the stands.
 
As we enter the high school sports season, just curious to see how many folks have a system in place to sell photos to parents throughout the season. Many (most?) of us here are amatuers -- some highly skilled, of course -- and some have a lot of money invested in gear. I've wondered about possibly offsetting some of these costs through image sales. Goal is not to make a profit but to offset the investment. Interested to hear how others approach this. Thanks.
i have a question for all those dads/moms who take pictures of the entire team instead of just their own kids. Have you ever had any other parent complain or at least express a concern about you taking pictures of their kids? People are so paranoid these days...
 
As we enter the high school sports season, just curious to see how many folks have a system in place to sell photos to parents throughout the season. Many (most?) of us here are amatuers -- some highly skilled, of course -- and some have a lot of money invested in gear. I've wondered about possibly offsetting some of these costs through image sales. Goal is not to make a profit but to offset the investment. Interested to hear how others approach this. Thanks.
i have a question for all those dads/moms who take pictures of the entire team instead of just their own kids. Have you ever had any other parent complain or at least express a concern about you taking pictures of their kids? People are so paranoid these days...
I have an experience like this. With the new team I usually send e-mail to the coach or parents telling that I am not going to take other kids pictures without parents consent.

If someone does not reply in any way - there would be no his/her kid pictures.
 
Shooting on spec is a dead market. On any given team of 25 players, I can guarantee you there are at least 2 moms with a digital Rebel and a 70-300 lens. She just knows in her heart that if she tries hard enough, she will get a great shot. In fact, she convinced her husband that it was worth it to spend all that money. No way is she gonna buy a photo from you.
Every 3rd team probably has a dad with a pro-sumer body and 70-200 pro-glass. He takes photos of every kid on his kids team, and burns a CD for people to share.

Finally, people are just too busy to sit down and scroll through several hundred photos looking for a good shot of their kid. All they want is a so-so photo to post to facebook

YMMV
I do high school action sports photos on spec all year round. I agree that nobody should expect to make a living at it or even make much of a profit, if any. However, I love doing it and I do sell my photos (prints and downloads) from my smugmug website below. I charge much less than what the newspapers charge for their photos but high enough where I at least cover my investment in time and equipment (for the most part). I make about $225 per month in net sales going to one or two events a week during most of the school year. I do some summer baseball also. However, I also do it as a way of marketing my law practice by incorporating my title as an attorney into my website name and noting that my photo website is sponsored by my law office. This is brought in many fee paying clients over the years. So, as a marketing venture for my law practice it has been successful.

So, my photo business is part public service becuase many people just enjoy looking at the watermarked photos on my website and saving them still watermarked to FB, etc. Others buy them and help pay my expenses, and others think of me for their legal needs and hire me.

I agree that many people are content with mediocre to poor quality images that are taken from the stands with consumer cameras and lenses. It's amazing what people will settle for but it is what it is.

I disagree that people won't scroll through 100-200 photos of an event. If their little Johnny played in the game then they will at least look at the photos. Getting them to buy even at a relatively nominal price is another story. I do keep most of my galleries of events limited to 100-200 carefully selected and post-processed photos that makes it worth their time to peruse. Just uploading hundreds and hundreds of unedited photos will surely induce boredom and repel most people. I also promote my galleries on Twitter, FB and Instagram and make sure they are posted within 24 hours of an event. All of this takes a lot of time and work that most photographers won't do, but I have the time for it and it's also a collateral marketing effort, as I said above.

Jay
 
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm toying with the idea of going professional. My connections to my kids' sports and school will help if I'm trying to take senior portraits and the like. But this is barely a step past a daydream at the moment.
 
As we enter the high school sports season, just curious to see how many folks have a system in place to sell photos to parents throughout the season. Many (most?) of us here are amatuers -- some highly skilled, of course -- and some have a lot of money invested in gear. I've wondered about possibly offsetting some of these costs through image sales. Goal is not to make a profit but to offset the investment. Interested to hear how others approach this. Thanks.
i have a question for all those dads/moms who take pictures of the entire team instead of just their own kids. Have you ever had any other parent complain or at least express a concern about you taking pictures of their kids? People are so paranoid these days...
In eight years I've never had a parent complain about me taking a pic of their kid at the junior high or high school level during an event. I do only sports event photography - no team pics except on rare occasions when asked by a coach. I did get some flak when I showed up at peewee football once. People didn't know who I was and were nervous about me taking pics and posting them online. I think if I had cleared it with the coach beforehand it would have been OK. I have since done some peewee football by the coach's invitation without any problems. Some of my shots are candid shots of kids on the bench or in the post game huddle etc, but never any complaints.

Jay
 
As we enter the high school sports season, just curious to see how many folks have a system in place to sell photos to parents throughout the season. Many (most?) of us here are amatuers -- some highly skilled, of course -- and some have a lot of money invested in gear. I've wondered about possibly offsetting some of these costs through image sales. Goal is not to make a profit but to offset the investment. Interested to hear how others approach this. Thanks.
i have a question for all those dads/moms who take pictures of the entire team instead of just their own kids. Have you ever had any other parent complain or at least express a concern about you taking pictures of their kids? People are so paranoid these days...
I started taking photos of my daughter's HS basketball team last year, and I did take photos of all the girls throughout the year. She goes to a Lutheran school, and I know a lot of the parents (and yes some are a bit paranoid, especially since we are talking about female players). I will generally only post images of my daughter, or in very limited cases other players whose parents I know very well. I also only upload photos to a site where I can lockout people without the proper link (I use flickr). I send a link to the school's administrator and the coach when I'm done editing and uploading the photos. Then I notice shots going up on Facebook from proud parents shortly thereafter, but I never upload photos there unless I know the parent is OK with it. Instead I let the parent upload the photo*.

As mentioned, people really don't mind scrolling through a bunch of photos as long as they are edited and processed a bit. I also find that 24-48 hours seems to be the sweet spot for having people view them. Although for Friday night games the email to the parents from the school doesn't go out until Monday.

Last year I combined my photography and woodworking passions and made each player a collage with some of the best images of them in action and built a custom frame for it. At the sports banquet I presented each player with their photos. I received heartfelt thanks from most of the players and their parents.

Because the school has a limited number of students and no formal photography class (they do offer a multimedia class every other year), they are always looking for photos for the school yearbook. I was asked specifically if I had photos of more of the men's teams. Unfortunately, I only had a few due to time. Because of this, both my daughter and I are trying to attend a few other of the sporting events to take photos. It's currently both soccer and football season. When I mentioned to the soccer coach I was going to attend a few of the games and take photos, he was very happy. Friday when I arrived at the soccer game, several parents came over and thanked me profusely for coming to take photos.

So, going back to what the OP asked. I don't charge, I have a day job that pays well, and I do it for the school and parents many of which I know through personally through school and church.

*Note: I will sometimes take photos where the kids aren't recognizable such as group images from a distance, or like Friday where there was some very nice landscape around the playing field (Friday's game included a working ranch right next to the playing field), and I'll post those because of their photographic qualities, not anything really to do with the players. ... Such as this photo which I posted to FB with the caption: One of spectators at the Concordia vs. Waldorf soccer game.


One of spectators at the Concordia vs. Waldorf soccer game.
 

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I send around an e-mail to parents at the start of the season and ask if they object to my taking pictures. I have had one parent object, and I've taken pictures of maybe twelve different teams, both boys and girls. When my daughter gets older (she's still in grade school), more parents may object.
 
I send around an e-mail to parents at the start of the season and ask if they object to my taking pictures. I have had one parent object, and I've taken pictures of maybe twelve different teams, both boys and girls. When my daughter gets older (she's still in grade school), more parents may object.

--
/s/ Rankin Johnson IV
-Fighting for justice, but I'll settle for a reversal.
Thank you everybody for sharing your experiences. I only took shots of my kid and of his friends last season. The new season starts tomorrow and I am debating whether I want to volunteer to take pictures of the entire team. I think I would enjoy the experience and I don't mind the effort. However, I am not sure I want the hassle of getting everybody's permission...

I assume most of the parents would like to see pictures of their kids taken with a pro-camera/lens. However there is always that one parent who might object.

This is a probably a silly question : what do you do about that kid who you are not allowed to photograph? That kid is probably going to be in your shots anyway. Do you discard those images altogether?

Like I said, people are paranoid. I live in PA where anybody who offers to take school yearbook pictures now has to complete FBI background checks.

Thanks again!
 
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I will throw in my two cents worth. I was one of the first DSLR photographers in my area with a 70-200 2.8 and used Printroom. I was recruited by the coach of our local high school football team which was always in the top 25 in the country for years. This gave me instant credibility to all the local sports and I supplied images to the local papers . I cleared $10,000+ for a few years starting in 2002. My kids played sports both club and school level. I did team and individuals across upstate SC. My quality went up and sales went down.. I gave up football 4 years ago after a $200 season which did not cover travel expenses. My total profit on action shots last year was $176.

I had parents and kids show me my images with watermarks on their phones. When I informed a few that that was stealing, they thought I was joking. To most, if it is online,then it is free. I have used Zenfolio for the past 7 years. When my account expires in December , that will be the end of my action shot business. The cost plus time editing is just not worth it. I have moved over to stock photography and senior portraits where I get paid upfront. I too have a regular job and charge just so I can buy new toys.

my advice is that if you enjoy it and you are going to be at the games anyway then do it. Every once in a while you meet a parent who will pay for shots of their child. Go to the school AD and offer image files for free to the yearbooks in return for permission . Most kids have a media release in their permission form to play with their parents signature for the kids images to be taken and used as the school see fit. Get written permission from the school and you are home free to post the images online for resale. Biggest bonus is if you like sports you generally have the best seats in the house on the floor or on the field which the average parent will not have access to. My local school gave me a pass for all games home and away.

best wishes and good luck. Enjoy the time with the kids and the chance to see future stars. I had the luxury of seeing Marcus lattimore , A J Greene, jadeveon Clowney, play as youngsters.
 
If I am going to be the official photographer, like for a tournament or a league, yes, absolutely. But I do not sell on spec. (i.e., shoot, process, upload, email, pray for sales) That business model is dead. I use a pre-pay model per player, or I contract with the league for a set fee.

If I am just shooting my own kids' teams just for fun, yeah, I'll put them on my smugmug pro site and mark them up my usual amount ($5.95 for a 5x7", etc), but with no watermark and right click enabled. I enable fairly large size images that are high enough res to print a good 5x7". But I usually give each player an 8x10" at the end of the season anyway.
 
As we enter the high school sports season, just curious to see how many folks have a system in place to sell photos to parents throughout the season. Many (most?) of us here are amatuers -- some highly skilled, of course -- and some have a lot of money invested in gear. I've wondered about possibly offsetting some of these costs through image sales. Goal is not to make a profit but to offset the investment. Interested to hear how others approach this. Thanks.
Judging by some of the responses it sounds like the market in the U.S is a bit different to that down here in Oz - definitely depressed.

I make a good living from sports team and portrait photography and provide a top notch product with emphasis on providing a personal service shooting baseball and cricket in summer - rugby, rugby league and soccer in winter. I retain my customers annually and have a full book of shoots every season.

While I started out doing action photos with film, as soon as digital cameras first appeared I rode the crest of that wave and did very well selling action photos - everyone wanted to buy them. That market has since dropped off for many of the reasons already listed in these posts but there are still a lot of people who appreciate top quality, action photos so these days I shoot mainly to order - that way I'm not wasting my time following players whose parents will not buy photos. I do this as an additional service to my team photos which takes up most of my work.

Yes there are parents with varying types of equipment who shoot and give away images to their team mates, "wannabes" doing things for free and others merely "stroking their egos" as someone put it - while they take away a proportion of my business I know they can't compete with what I offer as a full time shooter who stands by his quality product and service, and always delivers on time. Part timers can't compete for that exact reason - they're part timers.

So for me, life happily goes on.

Zoooming
 
Yes there are parents with varying types of equipment who shoot and give away images to their team mates, "wannabes" doing things for free and others merely "stroking their egos" as someone put it - while they take away a proportion of my business I know they can't compete with what I offer as a full time shooter who stands by his quality product and service, and always delivers on time. Part timers can't compete for that exact reason - they're part timers.

So for me, life happily goes on.
Don't kid yourself. There are plenty of part timers who can compete. They choose not to for various reasons, but I think photographers and sound engineers in particular seem to over-inflate their worth. I've done lots of things in my career including sound engineering both in a studio and on-location. But business models change and sometimes that's because there are amateurs that are hungry and disrupt the current business model. This doesn't take away from your skills, but it certainly makes it harder to compete. We can be the best at what we do, but if parent A has been an amateur photographer and understands a few things about action sports, my money is that by the end of a couple of games their photos are plenty good. Good enough to where most parents simply won't spend the extra money to pay somebody if Parent A is giving the photos they take away.

Again, that's not to take away anything from your skills, but don't kid yourself. I got out of the sound business because you have to spend a ton of money to keep your kit up to date and even with rental fees for gear, you nearly spend everything you make, then somebody comes along and undercuts your fees.

Bottom line, enjoy it. If you can get paid to do it, great, but don't kid yourself into thinking that just because somebody does it as a 'hobby' or part-time that they can't compete with you.
 

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