-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
Shoreham air show -- forum contributors okay?
- Thread starter Hen3ry
- Start date
-
- Tags
- olympus air a01
Guy Parsons
Forum Pro
From the huge number of photos and videos seen of the accident, to me it is clear that the pilot was really trying very hard to avoid what happened after the stall or loss of power or whatever had happened. In most cases like that when all is lost the ejector seat is used - he stayed with it to the end.
Regards...... Guy
Regards...... Guy
Colin K. Work
Senior Member
Colin K. Work
Senior Member
Exactly - and of course we don't know the situation or options facing the pilot - it's a fairly built up area with many buildings ... the A27 (or more likely the field beside it) was possibly the best bet. Had he abandoned the aircraft it could perhaps have hit Lancing College.
Tragic though this is, it has to be understood as a freak accident - Heathrow (and for that matter most major airports) are surrounded by motorways. In normal operations at Shoreham aircraft are taking off and landing over the A27 everyday.
There will inevitably be some knee jerk reaction with regards to airshows in the media, but to my mind the "airshow" aspect is irrelevant - these aircraft are maintained to a higher standard than many general aviation, and sometimes commercial, aircraft and the people who fly them are certainly above average in both skill and experience.
Unfortunately, 100% safety is not achievable in any area of activity.
Advent1sam
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 9,089
- Solutions
- 6
- Reaction score
- 4,212
Trevor Carpenter
Forum Pro
BADA WEB ADMIN
AUGUST 23, 2015 BADA NEWS
INFORMATION NOTE
Sunday 23rd August 2015
The British Air Display Association would like to react to the tragic accident that occurred in Shoreham on Saturday August 22nd and first of all to express our support and condolences for the families and friends of all those affected.
UK has long held an exemplary air display record in terms of public safety.
Prior to Saturday’s accident, the last time a member of the public was killed at a UK airshow was in 1952, nearly 63 years ago.
This record reflects the maturity of the multiple checks and balances that UK aviation regulators and airshow practitioners have developed.
The UK has extensive rules that cover airshow organisation, display aircraft heights, speeds and manoeuvres, flying supervision and a special examination and authorisation process for display pilots with graduated steps from simple flypasts to formation and aerobatics approvals.
In this regard, we are the envy of many other nations, not just in Europe but also across the Atlantic.
The Association will not speculate on how or why this particular accident occurred.
Some people might find that frustrating but at this stage even ‘informed’ speculation, without full knowledge of the facts, is unhelpful.
This is a time when careful analysis of the facts is needed before anyone tries to draw conclusions.
It is certainly not a time for un-informed or miss-informed rule making, especially when the existing rules have worked so well for so long.
Air Accident Investigation Branch experts will establish the facts, as quickly as possible.
Then will we will know whether this was a tragic one-off accident or whether there is more that can be done.
If there are lessons from this, that will be something for all involved in airshows to consider.
Our Association will continue to encourage, promote and advance Safety and Standards in British Air Displays.
About the British Air Display Association:
The British Air Display Association was formed in 2011 to consolidate a number of separate expert communities, each with their own expertise, involved in UK airshows. The Association aims to foster the highest standards throughout UK air displays and arranges conferences before and after each summer’s flying display season a cohesive so that all those involved in UK air displays, whether military or civilian, sponsor, event organiser, aircraft owner, flying supervisor or display pilot can exchange ideas and learn together. The conferences are held in conjunction and with the support of the Civil Avia
AUGUST 23, 2015 BADA NEWS
INFORMATION NOTE
Sunday 23rd August 2015
The British Air Display Association would like to react to the tragic accident that occurred in Shoreham on Saturday August 22nd and first of all to express our support and condolences for the families and friends of all those affected.
UK has long held an exemplary air display record in terms of public safety.
Prior to Saturday’s accident, the last time a member of the public was killed at a UK airshow was in 1952, nearly 63 years ago.
This record reflects the maturity of the multiple checks and balances that UK aviation regulators and airshow practitioners have developed.
The UK has extensive rules that cover airshow organisation, display aircraft heights, speeds and manoeuvres, flying supervision and a special examination and authorisation process for display pilots with graduated steps from simple flypasts to formation and aerobatics approvals.
In this regard, we are the envy of many other nations, not just in Europe but also across the Atlantic.
The Association will not speculate on how or why this particular accident occurred.
Some people might find that frustrating but at this stage even ‘informed’ speculation, without full knowledge of the facts, is unhelpful.
This is a time when careful analysis of the facts is needed before anyone tries to draw conclusions.
It is certainly not a time for un-informed or miss-informed rule making, especially when the existing rules have worked so well for so long.
Air Accident Investigation Branch experts will establish the facts, as quickly as possible.
Then will we will know whether this was a tragic one-off accident or whether there is more that can be done.
If there are lessons from this, that will be something for all involved in airshows to consider.
Our Association will continue to encourage, promote and advance Safety and Standards in British Air Displays.
About the British Air Display Association:
The British Air Display Association was formed in 2011 to consolidate a number of separate expert communities, each with their own expertise, involved in UK airshows. The Association aims to foster the highest standards throughout UK air displays and arranges conferences before and after each summer’s flying display season a cohesive so that all those involved in UK air displays, whether military or civilian, sponsor, event organiser, aircraft owner, flying supervisor or display pilot can exchange ideas and learn together. The conferences are held in conjunction and with the support of the Civil Avia
Advent1sam
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 9,089
- Solutions
- 6
- Reaction score
- 4,212
Performing that manoeuvre over a main road is not a freak accident, its something that is so dangerous it should be risk assessed and be carried out only at air shows which allow for contingent events should they ever happen, which they did. To think with all of the health and safety in place these days, especially in the UK of all places it is incredible that this was even allowed to be performed. This is not landing a state of the art jet into Heathrow or any other major passenger airport, this was performing a loop the loop over the busy A road, its crazy in reality, mindless and stupid!
Yes, but not doing stunt manoeuvre's or loop the loops!!
Last edited:
Trevor Carpenter
Forum Pro
Colin K. Work
Senior Member
Advent1sam
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 9,089
- Solutions
- 6
- Reaction score
- 4,212
The loop is what caused the incident, how can it be irrelevant. The jet ended up on the A27, it didn't come out of the loop and ended buried in cars and the road, this was an irresponsible stunt as it turns out, imagine it had come down in the main stand!
Colin K. Work
Senior Member
Guy Parsons
Forum Pro
By the way I saw that the Red Arrows will not perform aerobatics at Shoreham even though repeatedly requested.
It's too darn dangerous they say, nowhere safe to crashland if something goes wrong, so they will only overfly Shoreham with coloured smoke trails as their contribution.
That info on this page http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shoreham-airshow-crash-safety-questions-6307454
Regards..... Guy
It's too darn dangerous they say, nowhere safe to crashland if something goes wrong, so they will only overfly Shoreham with coloured smoke trails as their contribution.
That info on this page http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shoreham-airshow-crash-safety-questions-6307454
Regards..... Guy
Advent1sam
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 9,089
- Solutions
- 6
- Reaction score
- 4,212
Exactly, you don't need to be that clever to know you are playing with danger and fly past is one thing, loop the loop in these 60+ yr old jet's another. These are fairly big aircraft and they need space and options if things go wrong, none of which appears to of been considered!
Colin K. Work
Senior Member
Red Arrows quite rightly have their own special standards - remember this is a group of aircraft performing aerobatics in close formation which obviously brings in all kinds of additional risks. On the other hand, they do have a special low altitude routine allowing them to perform in low cloud situations which other pilots would not perform in.
Sadly, despite the Red Arrows being one of the safest and most professional teams in the world, they too lost a pilot in a crash at Bournemouth a couple of years ago. S**t happens.
But you do need some understanding of aviation and airshows before making allegations about 'irresponsibility' (arguably slanderous) in the absence of any facts.
Shoreham has a long tradition of airshows and is properly managed and monitored. Each performer would have been cleared by the authorities, and each maneuver approved. The pilot involved was extremely experienced (ex RAF and a current BA captain on Airbuses). There will also be pre-determined altitudes and airspeeds for entering into a loop.
To assume that the loop was undertaken unplanned and unprepared ignores all this and is extremely unlikely - the pilot would have faced serious disciplinary action had he done so.
The loop itself is considered one of the most basic of aerobatic maneuvers - I've flown one myself in an 80 year old biplane, and I'm not a pilot - and a lot safer than landing an aircraft.
Unless the pilot broke the rules - and perhaps we should presume innocence before being proven guilty - nothing occurred which would not have been sanctioned by the organisers, and in turn approved by the Civil Aviation Authority.
paul cool
Senior Member
Well my picture has made national press daily mirror and mail think it was the bbc news as well ,at the time I did not think my pictures were of that interest (important)the person who took my pics told me they could go worldwide ,but we're also to be used for investigation,s .to be honest most of the surrounding photographers submitted there photograph too.
all though none of this helps the bereaved it may help investigations
all though none of this helps the bereaved it may help investigations
PaulChapman
Leading Member
I think that is a well thought out and rational response to a very tragic accident. While video and photos will help in the enquiry, the eye-witness evidence is invariably coloured (for example Icarus failed due to brittle wax failure.. despite the eye-witness reports) and it is better not to speculate. Having worked with air accident people, I can only comment that they are exceptionally well trained and experienced so they will identify the cause (sometimes several contributory issues) and make recommendations for future air safety. Our sympathies should be with everyone caught up in this.
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum