5DS(R), a 5DIII user's perspective

I expect a new round of raw converter updates to come out. The ACR, for example, clips black where it shouldn't. That's been mentioned before, here, and I think it will probably be corrected in the future.

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Victor Engel
It is interesting because LR does it almost as an after thought. You can see the image (RAW file) being imported normally and then in less than a second shadow/blacks get darker in front of your eyes. Most of it can be corrected by turning the lens correction on. But you are right, they need to fix few things.

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/catch45/
You're probably seeing the transition from the thumbnail the camera creates to the preview ACR calculates. The built-in thumbnail is shown until LR has an alternative.
Yes, that's ACR adjustment. In LR when you click on Export an image is first opened in the library module as thumbnail. If you keep looking at the thumbnail you will notice that it gets darker after a second or so. On the other hand if I open an 5DIII image and do the same I see the image gets slightly brighter (takes less time). Now, if I open the same image in ACR/CS I don't see the adjustment happening, it opens adjusted and faster. And there is this slight difference in histogram too between LR and ACR. Here is an example of the same image opened as Adobe Standard.

LR







ACR







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Victor Engel


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What's with Live View (which I hardly ever use in DSLRs)? The screen goes blank for over a second doing a Live-View shot. I'd assume it was doing a PDAF cycle but can't see any option for that. Surely all it has to do is an EFCS to start the exposure, use the mechanical shutter to end it and then open the shutter again, but it seems to me it's probably moving the mirror. What am I missing? (I don't mind if I end up feeling stupid as I did look at the manual.)

Update - I had someone try it with a 5Ds and it really is that slow, it isn't me doing something stupid. As the exposure happens over a second after you press the shutter button it really isn't a great deal of use.
I am not sure what's happening here, maybe someone else can kindly explain. Exposure actually is made as soon as you press the shutter (provided its not a long exposure of course), but there is a delay before you can take the next shot. This happens with my 5DIII too. In the burst mode there is no shot to shot delay.
Some other thoughts that occurred after my original post:

Cropping plays havoc with the DoF, so if you think you'll be doing a fairly big crop you have to get your brain in gear over the aperture choice.
Of course.
I haven't seen any moire, so happy with my choice of the "r" so far.
If you look closely, you will notice some aliasing (usually after sharpening). Most of the time you will have to look for them, so its not a issue really.
There's a lot of resolution, even non-50MP approved lenses (e.g. the 24-105) do really nicely. So far I've used the 16-35 f4 IS, 24-105 and the 85 1.2 II, assorted others are in the pipeline. No disappointments to date.
 
I'm from a 5D II and moved to 5Ds. I must say I echo all you have said. I see those very fast shutters and I even bump to ISO 800 if I have to to get them. No problems in Lr. I do copy as .dng on import and Lr seems to treat those better that .cr2 is my guesstimate only.
Fast shutters are definitely safer, but I have tried some slower shutters too. I wouldn't say I am getting less keepers than 5DIII (or the difference between the two cameras is so small that it is hard to tell). Here is an example of a test shot of 1/125 sec with 70-200/2.8II, ISO1600.

Full shot.



100% crop





Thank you for the through analysis, I loved it. I'm cropping to my hearts content as well.
Thank you. What difference are you seeing between CR2 and DNG?


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What's with Live View (which I hardly ever use in DSLRs)? The screen goes blank for over a second doing a Live-View shot. I'd assume it was doing a PDAF cycle but can't see any option for that. Surely all it has to do is an EFCS to start the exposure, use the mechanical shutter to end it and then open the shutter again, but it seems to me it's probably moving the mirror. What am I missing? (I don't mind if I end up feeling stupid as I did look at the manual.)

Update - I had someone try it with a 5Ds and it really is that slow, it isn't me doing something stupid. As the exposure happens over a second after you press the shutter button it really isn't a great deal of use.
I am not sure what's happening here, maybe someone else can kindly explain. Exposure actually is made as soon as you press the shutter (provided its not a long exposure of course), but there is a delay before you can take the next shot. This happens with my 5DIII too. In the burst mode there is no shot to shot delay
Are you sure, as the first sound seemed like the mirror to me and the sound at the end like the shutter? Though I haven't tested it so you could easily be correct.
 
What's with Live View (which I hardly ever use in DSLRs)? The screen goes blank for over a second doing a Live-View shot. I'd assume it was doing a PDAF cycle but can't see any option for that. Surely all it has to do is an EFCS to start the exposure, use the mechanical shutter to end it and then open the shutter again, but it seems to me it's probably moving the mirror. What am I missing? (I don't mind if I end up feeling stupid as I did look at the manual.)

Update - I had someone try it with a 5Ds and it really is that slow, it isn't me doing something stupid. As the exposure happens over a second after you press the shutter button it really isn't a great deal of use.
I am not sure what's happening here, maybe someone else can kindly explain. Exposure actually is made as soon as you press the shutter (provided its not a long exposure of course), but there is a delay before you can take the next shot. This happens with my 5DIII too. In the burst mode there is no shot to shot delay
Are you sure, as the first sound seemed like the mirror to me and the sound at the end like the shutter? Though I haven't tested it so you could easily be correct.
Yeah, I have checked it. Make an exposure with high shutter speed and then move the camera before the second sound.
 
Thanks, good to know, I've been busy answering questions about the 5Ds for a photography magazine editor so didn't want to do anything that would keep me up even longer.
 
Thanks, good to know, I've been busy answering questions about the 5Ds for a photography magazine editor so didn't want to do anything that would keep me up even longer.
Thanks to you. I love hearing hearing user experiences like yours, because I know that in my excitement with new gear I might miss or ignore some obvious drawbacks.
 
What's with Live View (which I hardly ever use in DSLRs)? The screen goes blank for over a second doing a Live-View shot. I'd assume it was doing a PDAF cycle but can't see any option for that. Surely all it has to do is an EFCS to start the exposure, use the mechanical shutter to end it and then open the shutter again, but it seems to me it's probably moving the mirror. What am I missing? (I don't mind if I end up feeling stupid as I did look at the manual.)

Update - I had someone try it with a 5Ds and it really is that slow, it isn't me doing something stupid. As the exposure happens over a second after you press the shutter button it really isn't a great deal of use.

Some other thoughts that occurred after my original post:

Cropping plays havoc with the DoF, so if you think you'll be doing a fairly big crop you have to get your brain in gear over the aperture choice.

I haven't seen any moire, so happy with my choice of the "r" so far.

There's a lot of resolution, even non-50MP approved lenses (e.g. the 24-105) do really nicely. So far I've used the 16-35 f4 IS, 24-105 and the 85 1.2 II, assorted others are in the pipeline. No disappointments to date.
Is it like the 7D where you can choose to have it focus faster using pdaf? The screen goes blank while it acquires focus for second but it's better than the usual live view af hunting using cdaf?
 
There's no option for PDAF that I can see (it was my original thought too). I bounced it off Canon support who were very helpful and confirmed that's the way it is at present. They said they'll try a bunch of other cameras and let me know how it compares. I didn't go via CPS so I will also add I'm very impressed with Canon's general UK photo support - they were really excellent.
 
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With the recent Adobe Announcement of the last ACR update for CS6 tried CaptureOnePro 8 together DPP. Have wondered about trying DxO Optics, but they seem to be more of technicians than photographers (considering all DxO stuff). And last not least, all raw converters reviewers consider C1 slightly better than DxO Optics.

To my relief (not surprise) C1 did the overall best job on 5Ds R raw files. The most remarkable difference was with wide angle lenses but also with longer primes (59 mm macro, 100mm macro). ACR had very bad wide angle edges and had some false halos around contrasty edges even with the 100mm macro (lens profiles enabled).

When the photo is well lit and has medium contrast, then DPP 4 (with DLO) makes extremely good images, especially in wide angle lens corners. However DPP at the moment falls short mainly in highlight/shadow recovery area.

C1 has the best highlight/shadow recovery tools (along many other goodies like ability to profile TS-E lens) and gives much better details and less artifacts than ACR.

On top of it - ACR never got good colors from my G1x Mark II raws - they needed lot of tweaking. C1 gets everything just right by default. I am impressed.

Where all menitoned raw converters fall short is sharpening and noise reduction. Not that they are unusable. Simply dedicated tools (I use Focus Magic and Topaz InFocus for sharpening; NeatImage and Topaz DeNoise for noise reduction) are still the best.

Initially C1 workflow is different. But once you understand the ideas behind it, it has its strengths. Afterall, we care about image quality. I will give C1 few weeks of trial, but my initial impression is very positive and it is definitely better than ACR.
Now, you have convinced me to try C1 again. I did try it with my 5DIII, I liked the colors, but couldn't get used to the interface, so stopped using it.
Just remember that so far C1's support of the 5DS(r) is only preliminary and that the current profile has a number of issues, the big one being that recovered shadows take on a very greenish cast. But for files without any shadow pushing it might possibly be already representative of the final profile.
Your experience with the uggly green shadow cast in C1 matches mine. I found the way to deal with it by using the 3 wheel color correction tool. Adding some red to the shadow wheel cleans the green cast very well.
 
Okay, so I tested a 700D in a camera shop and the Live View blackout time is about 1/6 that of the 5Dsr, so I'm guessing there's an issue of some sort. No idea if that's a design thing or the firmware needs a tweak or ten. I am surprised it shipped like this. I have firmware 1.0.1R BTW.
 
I guess, and it is only a guess at this early time, that ACR likes dealing with DNG in stead of Cr2 because it is moved into a truly Adobe realm. I could be all scientificly snafued on this point and I have NO objective proof. Just a thought. No proprietary stuff to deal with??
 
Just remember that so far C1's support of the 5DS(r) is only preliminary and that the current profile has a number of issues, the big one being that recovered shadows take on a very greenish cast. But for files without any shadow pushing it might possibly be already representative of the final profile.
So, It will get even better. Good times ahead.
 
Great illustration of the fact that more mpix is really better because you have a lot of more options to play with. I'll take 100 mpix any day.

Let me add that for a lot of action shots the 5DS will also enjoy a significant advantage over the 5DIII.

Not only is the AF a lot better, you can also choose to engage at a longer distance = easier for the AF to track movement precisely and better subject DOF at the same time helping shoot very wide apertures to maintain high shutter speeds (like taking a 135L to a hockey match and at shooting @f/2.0!).

I still think Canon short-shifted us all with the 5DS/R specs. AF continues to fall short of the competition. Where is that eye-focus program? No focus point metering?? Crippled video capabilities??? But what Canon did improve they got right.
 
I just ran my 5Dsr through my favourite video Moire/Aliasing horror test and it completely rocked it. Both my GH3 and GH4 do appallingly at FHD (presumably due to skipping about a third of the pixels) and only the GH4 does well at it when in 4k mode. I haven't done a rolling shutter test yet, but if it really reads the whole 16:9 crop of the 50MP sensor (8688x4888 = 42.5MP) to make the video I imagine it won't be great (buy hey, bolt on a faster CPU, add a small crop and you have 8k, hmmm). I don't think there is enough control to make it a decent video camera (I certainly didn't buy it for that, I have a particular use for a hi-res stills camera), but right now I'd dispute any moire/aliasing assertions people might make. I also suspect it's sharper than a 5DmkIII - it seems better compared to my recollections, but I don't have one to compare with.

(If anyone is in London one of my tests, although I have a few, is shooting through Tower Bridge from upstream on the South Bank with Canary Wharf about in the centre of the Bridge. The Windows in the building closest to the water on the left and the sky-scrapers are the interesting bits. I usually frame to have a 1+ to 2 Tower's widths either side of the Towers.)
 
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I did take my 135 and 5DSR to shoot birds the other day.







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