NX1's lack of back-button focussing

Hopefully.

Bill

Tugela said:

So, basically what you are saying is that you have to change your workflow to be consistent with the camera design, and you don't want to do that.

I don't see that as a camera problem. I have no issue with the way they have implemented the button layout. Just use the AF lock function if you want the camera to hold focus. Set your aperture and shutter speed before rather than after.

Click to expand...

By your logic, I should have changed my workflow because the NX1 was designed with poor low light focusing and focus tracking. If you don't have an issue with it, then you don't know how to use the feature. Like the low light and tracking issues were addressed with firmware, so should this. Because it's not about how it's designed. Like the low light and tracking, it's a feature that doesn't work correctly. But one that can be fixed with firmware and I suspect it will. And thank goodness Samsung takes a better approach to firmware updates than most. Every camera has flaws but few are ever addressed. Samsung has proven they are willing to, not only, fix issues but add new ones. It's a progressive approach and one of the reasons I use Samsung cameras.

wpstl said:

Tugela said:

So, basically what you are saying is that you have to change your workflow to be consistent with the camera design, and you don't want to do that.

I don't see that as a camera problem. I have no issue with the way they have implemented the button layout. Just use the AF lock function if you want the camera to hold focus. Set your aperture and shutter speed before rather than after.

Click to expand...

By your logic, I should have changed my workflow because the NX1 was designed with poor low light focusing and focus tracking. If you don't have an issue with it, then you don't know how to use the feature. Like the low light and tracking issues were addressed with firmware, so should this. Because it's not about how it's designed. Like the low light and tracking, it's a feature that doesn't work correctly. But one that can be fixed with firmware and I suspect it will. And thank goodness Samsung takes a better approach to firmware updates than most. Every camera has flaws but few are ever addressed. Samsung has proven they are willing to, not only, fix issues but add new ones. It's a progressive approach and one of the reasons I use Samsung cameras.

Click to expand...

I would comment it in a different way:

That the command wheels are blocked is a bug. That's it. Nothing about workflow design. It serves no purpose. It's just annoying, and it should be easy to fix (if Samsung fixes it).

For some reason, when people point out flaws (even bugs) in this forum, they get criticized (see Tugela's post above).

The Samsung NX1 was shipped with a button on the backside. That button said "AF ON". Unfortunately, that button never served the purpose it claimed to do: "turn on autofocus" (when it's off). Admittedly, the button somehow turns on the autofocus, but what purpose serves that when it only works when autofocus is enabled anyway, and if pressing the shutter button overrides the previously set focus?

If the NX1 didn't have an "AF ON" button, I wouldn't be posting on this forum about back-button focussing. I would just use manual focussing then. But the NX1 came shipped with an "AF ON" button and I was disappointed by it's function. Why I was disappointed, that's explained in detail in my original post of this thread. Please also check out bpjod's reply. It is worth reading.

Regards,
Jan

Luckily there are ppl like you (and me) who try to suggest improvements and bugfixes. Till the nx1 was not out, I was the only person on this forum 'daring' to complain about issues with nx cameras. Now that a very good camera has been delivered, more and more experienced ppl are here and hence more suggestions come from them.

Finally we have a (mostly) positive and useful community. I hope samsung can capitalize from this.

The threads on eoshd forum and your posts here are full of great suggestions for samsung to further improve an already great camera

tecnoworld said:

Luckily there are ppl like you (and me) who try to suggest improvements and bugfixes. Till the nx1 was not out, I was the only person on this forum 'daring' to complain about issues with nx cameras. Now that a very good camera has been delivered, more and more experienced ppl are here and hence more suggestions come from them.

Click to expand...

Of course, certain things can always be improved. People always want better low-ISO performance, bigger buffers, less noise, higher resolution, faster responsiveness, more accurate autofocus, etc.

I do too.

But it's not about this. The back-button focussing is a feature that doesn't require a lot of technological skills. It just requires to fix a bug or to add a new configuration option to the firmware that allows to disable the shutter button's focussing. No magic here. No miracles expected from Samsung.

tecnoworld said:

Finally we have a (mostly) positive and useful community. I hope samsung can capitalize from this.

The threads on eoshd forum and your posts here are full of great suggestions for samsung to further improve an already great camera

Click to expand...

Thanks

Regards,
Jan

mfair said:

Jan,

Re-reading this post (studying, really) and I'm wondering how C-AF plays into this discussion.

If you are using single AF, then this all seems very straight-forward, but what of the C-AF scenario. If I am using C-AF, I assume I am doing something (using a back button) and no longer thinking about focus since the camera continues to change focus.

I read the Steve Perry article someone else here recommended, and he says this about BB focusing in general:

"Beats trying to switch back and forth from single shot AF to continuous AF, that’s for sure." I don't get this. How does BB focus impact a possible need to switch from single AF to C-AF?

Marc

Click to expand...

Google "AF on button technique" or "back button AF technique" lots of great tutorials and videos demonstrating how to work with BB AF.

Heres another good summary:


For me it makes it easier to shoot stills and video without having to switch between MF and AF.

Jan Behrens said:

Jan Behrens said:

I am hopefully you will continue to post great thoughtful notes such as these. Maybe you can look at focus issues during video next?

Click to expand...

Which focus issues do you mean? Performance or handling/configuration?

Click to expand...

I guess both since you asked! I was mainly thinking about handling/configuration, but would love to hear your analysis of the NX1 regarding video.

Regards,

Marc

Jan Behrens said:

If you have a button on the back, that activates (continuous) autofocus whenever you press (and hold) it, then you have both advantages from single AF and continuous AF combined. Pressing that focus button on the back once and releasing it will focus once (like single AF on half-press of the shutter button). Pressing the back-button and holding it will make the camera behave like in continuous AF mode.

Click to expand...

OK, thanks! I'll go get my camera and try it out.

So, if I sent AF to single shot AF, then I should be able to press the BB AF-On button once (press and release) to perform single focus, or press and hold to have the effect of C-AF?

I almost think the alternative configuration would be more useful: set the camera to C-AF. A single press and release of the BB AF-on button activates the AF and it performs continuous AF. However, if I press and hold the BB AF-on button, the camera performs and instantaneous focus and keeps that focus point for as long as I hold down the BB AF-on button (overriding the C-AF).

Would that be desirable?

mfair said:

Jan Behrens said:

If you have a button on the back, that activates (continuous) autofocus whenever you press (and hold) it, then you have both advantages from single AF and continuous AF combined. Pressing that focus button on the back once and releasing it will focus once (like single AF on half-press of the shutter button). Pressing the back-button and holding it will make the camera behave like in continuous AF mode.

Click to expand...

OK, thanks! I'll go get my camera and try it out.

Click to expand...

The text above was referring to Steve Perry's article, and not to the NX1 (which does not support proper back-button focussing).

Also check out what I wrote here:

"[...] what purpose serves that when it [focussing through the back-button] only works when autofocus is enabled anyway, and if pressing the shutter button overrides the previously set focus?"

Regards,
Jan

I agree with Jan on the AF issue. An option to turn off shutter button AF would make the camera more convenient.

(I'd also still like to have the manual focus position moveable.)

Jan Behrens said:

wpstl said:

Tugela said:

So, basically what you are saying is that you have to change your workflow to be consistent with the camera design, and you don't want to do that.

I don't see that as a camera problem. I have no issue with the way they have implemented the button layout. Just use the AF lock function if you want the camera to hold focus. Set your aperture and shutter speed before rather than after.

Click to expand...

By your logic, I should have changed my workflow because the NX1 was designed with poor low light focusing and focus tracking. If you don't have an issue with it, then you don't know how to use the feature. Like the low light and tracking issues were addressed with firmware, so should this. Because it's not about how it's designed. Like the low light and tracking, it's a feature that doesn't work correctly. But one that can be fixed with firmware and I suspect it will. And thank goodness Samsung takes a better approach to firmware updates than most. Every camera has flaws but few are ever addressed. Samsung has proven they are willing to, not only, fix issues but add new ones. It's a progressive approach and one of the reasons I use Samsung cameras.

Click to expand...

I would comment it in a different way:

That the command wheels are blocked is a bug. That's it. Nothing about workflow design. It serves no purpose. It's just annoying, and it should be easy to fix (if Samsung fixes it).

For some reason, when people point out flaws (even bugs) in this forum, they get criticized (see Tugela's post above).

The Samsung NX1 was shipped with a button on the backside. That button said "AF ON". Unfortunately, that button never served the purpose it claimed to do: "turn on autofocus" (when it's off). Admittedly, the button somehow turns on the autofocus, but what purpose serves that when it only works when autofocus is enabled anyway, and if pressing the shutter button overrides the previously set focus?

If the NX1 didn't have an "AF ON" button, I wouldn't be posting on this forum about back-button focussing. I would just use manual focussing then. But the NX1 came shipped with an "AF ON" button and I was disappointed by it's function. Why I was disappointed, that's explained in detail in my original post of this thread. Please also check out bpjod's reply. It is worth reading.

Regards,
Jan

Click to expand...

Basically your problem then is that the button is called "AF ON", and you think therefore that it should be doing the same thing as the Nikon or Canon buttons? And in the mean time the designers of the NX1 have something else in mind, which you can't understand and consequently wish the button was not there, even though it has it's uses? I am just trying to understand why it is this big issue for you. The way you describe it, I would never use that functionality. If I want to keep a particular focus I would just half press the shutter for a temporary focus, and use manual if I wanted it permanent. So the "big issue" for you is not a "big issue" for me.

Also, has it occurred to you that other manufacturers might have the exact functionality of these buttons protected by patents? So even if Samsung wanted to copy them they can't?

Command wheels being locked when the "lock" function is selected is not a bug. Focus and exposure is locked (hence the term "lock"), that is why the wheels don't do anything. IIRC it says as much in the manual, so it is pretty clear. It wouldn't be much of a lock if you could change it now would it. I imagine the reason for setting it that way would be so that you could lock your camera properties on a particular object, then recompose while maintaining everything while in auto mode. Some might find that useful.

If you want to lock focus while maintaining control of exposure settings (such as your wheels), set the AEL button to AFL mode, then focus with a half shutter click (or using the AF-ON button), then lock with the AEL button, if that is the functionality you want.

Using the two buttons (or three if you use the shutter as well), you get a wide range of options for controlling how the camera operates to suit your own particular needs. Is it a direct copy of how Canon or Nikon have implemented their systems? No. But it isn't broken either.

Tugela said:

Jan Behrens said:

wpstl said:

Tugela said:

So, basically what you are saying is that you have to change your workflow to be consistent with the camera design, and you don't want to do that.

I don't see that as a camera problem. I have no issue with the way they have implemented the button layout. Just use the AF lock function if you want the camera to hold focus. Set your aperture and shutter speed before rather than after.

Click to expand...

By your logic, I should have changed my workflow because the NX1 was designed with poor low light focusing and focus tracking. If you don't have an issue with it, then you don't know how to use the feature. Like the low light and tracking issues were addressed with firmware, so should this. Because it's not about how it's designed. Like the low light and tracking, it's a feature that doesn't work correctly. But one that can be fixed with firmware and I suspect it will. And thank goodness Samsung takes a better approach to firmware updates than most. Every camera has flaws but few are ever addressed. Samsung has proven they are willing to, not only, fix issues but add new ones. It's a progressive approach and one of the reasons I use Samsung cameras.

Click to expand...

I would comment it in a different way:

That the command wheels are blocked is a bug. That's it. Nothing about workflow design. It serves no purpose. It's just annoying, and it should be easy to fix (if Samsung fixes it).

For some reason, when people point out flaws (even bugs) in this forum, they get criticized (see Tugela's post above).

The Samsung NX1 was shipped with a button on the backside. That button said "AF ON". Unfortunately, that button never served the purpose it claimed to do: "turn on autofocus" (when it's off). Admittedly, the button somehow turns on the autofocus, but what purpose serves that when it only works when autofocus is enabled anyway, and if pressing the shutter button overrides the previously set focus?

If the NX1 didn't have an "AF ON" button, I wouldn't be posting on this forum about back-button focussing. I would just use manual focussing then. But the NX1 came shipped with an "AF ON" button and I was disappointed by it's function. Why I was disappointed, that's explained in detail in my original post of this thread. Please also check out bpjod's reply. It is worth reading.

Regards,
Jan

Click to expand...

Basically your problem then is that the button is called "AF ON", and you think therefore that it should be doing the same thing as the Nikon or Canon buttons?

Click to expand...

No, it doesn't need to do the same. But it needs to do something useful. And it doesn't. (That's my humble opinion, as elaborated in my original post.)

Tugela said:

And in the mean time the designers of the NX1 have something else in mind, which you can't understand...

Click to expand...

Wrong. If you had read my respose to bpjod's reply, then you would have seen that I'm pretty much open minded regarding a different behavior of that button (as long as it's a useful behavior).

Tugela said:

...and consequently wish the button was not there, even though it has it's uses?

Click to expand...

No, but the button kinda "advertises" a function that the NX1 cannot fulfil. (Again, read my other posts.)

Tugela said:

I am just trying to understand why it is this big issue for you.

Click to expand...

As I said, "what purpose serves that when it only works when autofocus is enabled anyway [...]?"

In other words: if you can't properly disable the autofocus otherwise (unless the AF ON button is pressed), then the button is mostly useless. I prefer useful buttons on my camera rather than useless buttons.

Not sure why this is so difficult to understand for some people.

Tugela said:

The way you describe it, I would never use that functionality. If I want to keep a particular focus I would just half press the shutter for a temporary focus, and use manual if I wanted it permanent. So the "big issue" for you is not a "big issue" for me.

Click to expand...

Why manual focus is not an option (for me), I have already explained to you in another response to you.

Tugela said:

Also, has it occurred to you that other manufacturers might have the exact functionality of these buttons protected by patents? So even if Samsung wanted to copy them they can't?

Click to expand...

If you have any information on this (rather than speculation), I'm interested in it. Samsung didn't appear to have communicated such problems.

Also keep in mind that I don't necessarily need the button to behave in the exact same way, as already explained in my reply to bpjod.

Tugela said:

Command wheels being locked when the "lock" function is selected is not a bug. Focus and exposure is locked (hence the term "lock"), that is why the wheels don't do anything. [...]

Click to expand...

You are wrong. If you had properly read my original post, then you would have seen that there are 2 "lock" options in the list:

• AF Start
• AF Start + Lock
• Metering & AF Start
• Metering & AF Start + Lock

The option "AF Start + Lock", which I was talking about, does not lock exposure. Therefore, it does not make sense to block the command wheels here. To backup my statement, let me repeat that the AFL function (if configured for the other button, e.g. the "AEL" button), also does not block the command wheels. All this has already been explained in my original post that you should have read.

Tugela said:

If you want to lock focus while maintaining control of exposure settings (such as your wheels), set the AEL button to AFL mode, then focus with a half shutter click (or using the AF-ON button), then lock with the AEL button, if that is the functionality you want.

Click to expand...

Why I don't want to do this is also already explained in my original post. But I keep repeating myself here.

Tugela said:

Using the two buttons (or three if you use the shutter as well), you get a wide range of options for controlling how the camera operates to suit your own particular needs. Is it a direct copy of how Canon or Nikon have implemented their systems? No. But it isn't broken either.

Click to expand...

See above.

Please understand that I won't comment on any other post of you in this thread anymore, unless it contains substantial new information that hasn't already been subject of my original post or my previous responses to you. Thank you very much.

Best Regards,
Jan Behrens

Jan Behrens said:

Tugela said:

Jan Behrens said:

wpstl said:

Tugela said:

So, basically what you are saying is that you have to change your workflow to be consistent with the camera design, and you don't want to do that.

I don't see that as a camera problem. I have no issue with the way they have implemented the button layout. Just use the AF lock function if you want the camera to hold focus. Set your aperture and shutter speed before rather than after.

Click to expand...

By your logic, I should have changed my workflow because the NX1 was designed with poor low light focusing and focus tracking. If you don't have an issue with it, then you don't know how to use the feature. Like the low light and tracking issues were addressed with firmware, so should this. Because it's not about how it's designed. Like the low light and tracking, it's a feature that doesn't work correctly. But one that can be fixed with firmware and I suspect it will. And thank goodness Samsung takes a better approach to firmware updates than most. Every camera has flaws but few are ever addressed. Samsung has proven they are willing to, not only, fix issues but add new ones. It's a progressive approach and one of the reasons I use Samsung cameras.

Click to expand...

I would comment it in a different way:

That the command wheels are blocked is a bug. That's it. Nothing about workflow design. It serves no purpose. It's just annoying, and it should be easy to fix (if Samsung fixes it).

For some reason, when people point out flaws (even bugs) in this forum, they get criticized (see Tugela's post above).

The Samsung NX1 was shipped with a button on the backside. That button said "AF ON". Unfortunately, that button never served the purpose it claimed to do: "turn on autofocus" (when it's off). Admittedly, the button somehow turns on the autofocus, but what purpose serves that when it only works when autofocus is enabled anyway, and if pressing the shutter button overrides the previously set focus?

If the NX1 didn't have an "AF ON" button, I wouldn't be posting on this forum about back-button focussing. I would just use manual focussing then. But the NX1 came shipped with an "AF ON" button and I was disappointed by it's function. Why I was disappointed, that's explained in detail in my original post of this thread. Please also check out bpjod's reply. It is worth reading.

Regards,
Jan

Click to expand...

Basically your problem then is that the button is called "AF ON", and you think therefore that it should be doing the same thing as the Nikon or Canon buttons?

Click to expand...

No, it doesn't need to do the same. But it needs to do something useful. And it doesn't. (That's my humble opinion, as elaborated in my original post.)

Jan Behrens said:

And in the mean time the designers of the NX1 have something else in mind, which you can't understand...

Click to expand...

Wrong. If you had read my respose to bpjod's reply, then you would have seen that I'm pretty much open minded regarding a different behavior of that button (as long as it's a useful behavior).

Jan Behrens said:

...and consequently wish the button was not there, even though it has it's uses?

Click to expand...

No, but the button kinda "advertises" a function that the NX1 cannot fulfil. (Again, read my other posts.)

Jan Behrens said:

I am just trying to understand why it is this big issue for you.

Click to expand...

As I said, "what purpose serves that when it only works when autofocus is enabled anyway [...]?"

In other words: if you can't properly disable the autofocus otherwise (unless the AF ON button is pressed), then the button is mostly useless. I prefer useful buttons on my camera rather than useless buttons.

Not sure why this is so difficult to understand for some people.

Jan Behrens said:

The way you describe it, I would never use that functionality. If I want to keep a particular focus I would just half press the shutter for a temporary focus, and use manual if I wanted it permanent. So the "big issue" for you is not a "big issue" for me.

Click to expand...

Why manual focus is not an option (for me), I have already explained to you in another response to you.

Jan Behrens said:

Also, has it occurred to you that other manufacturers might have the exact functionality of these buttons protected by patents? So even if Samsung wanted to copy them they can't?

Click to expand...

If you have any information on this (rather than speculation), I'm interested in it. Samsung didn't appear to have communicated such problems.

Also keep in mind that I don't necessarily need the button to behave in the exact same way, as already explained in my reply to bpjod.

Jan Behrens said:

Command wheels being locked when the "lock" function is selected is not a bug. Focus and exposure is locked (hence the term "lock"), that is why the wheels don't do anything. [...]

Click to expand...

You are wrong. If you had properly read my original post, then you would have seen that there are 2 "lock" options in the list:

• AF Start
• AF Start + Lock
• Metering & AF Start
• Metering & AF Start + Lock

The option "AF Start + Lock", which I was talking about, does not lock exposure. Therefore, it does not make sense to block the command wheels here. To backup my statement, let me repeat that the AFL function (if configured for the other button, e.g. the "AEL" button), also does not block the command wheels. All this has already been explained in my original post that you should have read.

Jan Behrens said:

If you want to lock focus while maintaining control of exposure settings (such as your wheels), set the AEL button to AFL mode, then focus with a half shutter click (or using the AF-ON button), then lock with the AEL button, if that is the functionality you want.

Click to expand...

Why I don't want to do this is also already explained in my original post. But I keep repeating myself here.

Jan Behrens said:

Using the two buttons (or three if you use the shutter as well), you get a wide range of options for controlling how the camera operates to suit your own particular needs. Is it a direct copy of how Canon or Nikon have implemented their systems? No. But it isn't broken either.

Click to expand...

See above.

Please understand that I won't comment on any other post of you in this thread anymore, unless it contains substantial new information that hasn't already been subject of my original post or my previous responses to you. Thank you very much.

Best Regards,
Jan Behrens

Click to expand...

Long post, please don't split it up like that because it becomes difficult to respond.

Regarding the AF start + Lock, in the manual it says the following "The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo". Note the bolded bit. You should read the manual to avoid becoming confused. If the exposure is locked then obviously you can't adjust it by turning the wheels that would normally change it. I get that you don't want to lock exposure, but you can achieve that with the camera anyway, albeit through a different route.

If you want to lock focus you have to use the AEL button or activate manual focus using the lens button. That is how it is implemented on THIS camera.

If you want to lock only focus, you have a way to do it. If you want to lock only exposure, you have a way to do it. If you want to lock both, you have a way to do it. If you want to lock neither, you have a way to do it. All bases are covered.

None of your response changes the fact that you can essentially get the functionality you want with a different work flow. You don't want to change your work flow, and that is fine, but it is a problem with YOU, not with the camera.

One more thing, the functionality of the two buttons can be toggled between each other, so if necessary you can get the AF-ON button to perform a focus lock if that is what you want.

Tugela said:

[...]

Regarding the AF start + Lock, in the manual it says the following "The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo". Note the bolded bit. You should read the manual to avoid becoming confused.

Click to expand...

The manual is wrong (or at least misleading) in that regard. If I set "AF ON" to "AF Start + Lock", then

• shutter speed (in P or A mode)
• aperture (in P or S mode)
• ISO (if auto-ISO is selected)

are changing according to whether I point the camera at light or dark scenes (after locking with the "AF ON" button configured to "AF start + Lock"). I double checked this (just for you).

(Even if those values are changing, I can't operate the wheels to modify any of these values manually, e.g. the aperture in A mode.)

The cited sentence of the manual rather means the following: whatever is locked (exposure and/or focus) will remain locked.

In case of "AF start + Lock", this is the focus only. For locking exposure and focus, you have to select "Metering & AF Start + Lock". (Otherwise the functions would be identical.)

Tugela said:

[...]

Click to expand...

Jan

Tugela said:

Also, has it occurred to you that other manufacturers might have the exact functionality of these buttons protected by patents? So even if Samsung wanted to copy them they can't?

Click to expand...

So, some company has a patent on this and has licensed to it everyone but Samsung? A patent is given to a single company. Do you really think Nikon or Canon or Sony or Fuji would license this to competitors? If someone other than one of the big companies has the patent, then everyone has licensed it except Samsung. So, they either made a mistake or were too cheap. Either way, it still doesn't work properly.

Look, it's not a big issue for you because you don't understand it. That's clear. Time for you to stop reading the thread because your arguments lack logic. There are plenty of threads for beginning photographers in this forum. Please take advantage of them.

Jan Behrens said:

Tugela said:

[...]

Regarding the AF start + Lock, in the manual it says the following "The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo". Note the bolded bit. You should read the manual to avoid becoming confused.

Click to expand...

The manual is wrong (or at least misleading) in that regard. If I set "AF ON" to "AF Start + Lock", then

• shutter speed (in P or A mode)
• aperture (in P or S mode)
• ISO (if auto-ISO is selected)

are changing according to whether I point the camera at light or dark scenes (after locking with the "AF ON" button configured to "AF start + Lock"). I double checked this (just for you).

(Even if those values are changing, I can't operate the wheels to modify any of these values manually, e.g. the aperture in A mode.)

The cited sentence of the manual rather means the following: whatever is locked (exposure and/or focus) will remain locked.

In case of "AF start + Lock", this is the focus only. For locking exposure and focus, you have to select "Metering & AF Start + Lock". (Otherwise the functions would be identical.)

Jan Behrens said:

[...]

Click to expand...

Jan

Click to expand...

I have to check when I get home, but my reading of the manual is that "AF start + lock" will lock the controls and focus, but auto exposure will continue (you can't adjust manually however), while "metering & AF start + lock" will set exposure and keep it there. The latter should essentially be the same functionality that the shutter half press normal does on a single shot basis.

To simply lock focus while maintaining control of everything else, use the AFL or AFL hold functions (depending on how exactly you want to take the picture).

Tugela said:

Jan Behrens said:

Tugela said:

[...]

Regarding the AF start + Lock, in the manual it says the following "The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo". Note the bolded bit. You should read the manual to avoid becoming confused.

Click to expand...

The manual is wrong (or at least misleading) in that regard. If I set "AF ON" to "AF Start + Lock", then

• shutter speed (in P or A mode)
• aperture (in P or S mode)
• ISO (if auto-ISO is selected)

are changing according to whether I point the camera at light or dark scenes (after locking with the "AF ON" button configured to "AF start + Lock"). I double checked this (just for you).

(Even if those values are changing, I can't operate the wheels to modify any of these values manually, e.g. the aperture in A mode.)

The cited sentence of the manual rather means the following: whatever is locked (exposure and/or focus) will remain locked.

In case of "AF start + Lock", this is the focus only. For locking exposure and focus, you have to select "Metering & AF Start + Lock". (Otherwise the functions would be identical.)

Tugela said:

[...]

Click to expand...

Jan

Click to expand...

I have to check when I get home, but my reading of the manual is that "AF start + lock" will lock the controls and focus, but auto exposure will continue (you can't adjust manually however), while "metering & AF start + lock" will set exposure and keep it there. [...]

Click to expand...

First (here and here) you tell me that the manual says that "AF Start + Lock" would lock "exposure and focus". And now you tell me that you read in the manual that the option would "lock the controls". Are you kidding me? I already explained in my very first post of this thread that the option locks the command wheels (i.e. the control of shutter speed, aperture, etc), and that this is a bad behavior. In one of my follow-ups, I already explained that this behavior is a bug because it serves no purpose:

"That the command wheels are blocked is a bug. That's it. Nothing about workflow design. It serves no purpose. It's just annoying, and it should be easy to fix (if Samsung fixes it)."

The blocking of the command wheels makes sense when setting the option to "Metering & AF Start + Lock" (see below), but it does not make any sense when setting the option to "AF Start + Lock".

Lets take a look in detail what the manual "for NX1 cameras with firmware version 1.30 or later" says exactly on page 189:

• AF Start: Perform the auto focus function.
• AF Start + Lock: Perform the auto focus function. Keep the auto exposure and focus lock functions on after shooting. (The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo.)
• Metering & AF start [default]: Set an optimum exposure by calculating the brightness of the focus area and perform the auto focus function at the same time.
• Metering & AF Start + Lock: Set an optimum exposure by calculating the brightness of the focus area and execute the auto focus function at the same time. Keep the auto exposure and focus lock functions on after shooting. (The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo.)

The section...

"Keep the auto exposure and focus lock functions on after shooting. (The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo.)"

...has obviously been copy/pasted there. As already explained in my previous response, this is misleading (i.e. wrong), because the option "AF Start + Lock" does not lock exposure (i.e. it does not lock shutter speed, and aperture, and it also does not lock ISO if set to auto-ISO). It only locks the command wheels, but it does not lock the automatic adjustment of these exposure settings. I tried it with my NX1. A couple of times. Really. Believe me!

The only thing it does is focussing, locking the focus, and locking the command wheels. The camera, however, will still adjust shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. That the command wheels are (b)locked here is a bug. I repeat: this is a bug. I already explained this a loooong time ago in another thread. My original post in this thread contained a link to that old post of mine.

But let me repeat it once more: the blocking of the command wheels is a bug. It is a bug.

Tugela said:

To simply lock focus while maintaining control of everything else, use the AFL or AFL hold functions (depending on how exactly you want to take the picture).

Click to expand...

See my previous posts. Thank you.

Maybe someone else reading this thread can confirm that "AF Start + Lock" blocks the command wheels but still allows for automatic change of shutter speed, aperture, and ISO.

Kind Regards,
Jan Behrens

Locking controls is really a silly and odd behaviour, resembling a bug. What's its usefullness? I can't see one. If I want that behaviour, it'd be enough to set the camera on P and lock focus. While if I set it on A,S or M, I want to control the parameters. Always.

Jan Behrens said:

[...] But let me repeat it once more: the blocking of the command wheels is a bug. [...]

Click to expand...

Possibly the manual was written after the bug had been introduced. I somehow doubt that Samsung really understands what is the issue here. Or they are just not aware of the problem because they fail to forward feedback by their customers. Or they don't priorize to fix this (little) issue, which has a huge impact on usability though.

I'm annoyed and hope this will be fixed eventually.

Regards,
Jan

Jan Behrens said:

Tugela said:

Jan Behrens said:

Tugela said:

[...]

Regarding the AF start + Lock, in the manual it says the following "The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo". Note the bolded bit. You should read the manual to avoid becoming confused.

Click to expand...

The manual is wrong (or at least misleading) in that regard. If I set "AF ON" to "AF Start + Lock", then

• shutter speed (in P or A mode)
• aperture (in P or S mode)
• ISO (if auto-ISO is selected)

are changing according to whether I point the camera at light or dark scenes (after locking with the "AF ON" button configured to "AF start + Lock"). I double checked this (just for you).

(Even if those values are changing, I can't operate the wheels to modify any of these values manually, e.g. the aperture in A mode.)

The cited sentence of the manual rather means the following: whatever is locked (exposure and/or focus) will remain locked.

In case of "AF start + Lock", this is the focus only. For locking exposure and focus, you have to select "Metering & AF Start + Lock". (Otherwise the functions would be identical.)

Jan Behrens said:

[...]

Click to expand...

Jan

Click to expand...

I have to check when I get home, but my reading of the manual is that "AF start + lock" will lock the controls and focus, but auto exposure will continue (you can't adjust manually however), while "metering & AF start + lock" will set exposure and keep it there. [...]

Click to expand...

First (here and here) you tell me that the manual says that "AF Start + Lock" would lock "exposure and focus". And now you tell me that you read in the manual that the option would "lock the controls". Are you kidding me? I already explained in my very first post of this thread that the option locks the command wheels (i.e. the control of shutter speed, aperture, etc), and that this is a bad behavior. In one of my follow-ups, I already explained that this behavior is a bug because it serves no purpose:

"That the command wheels are blocked is a bug. That's it. Nothing about workflow design. It serves no purpose. It's just annoying, and it should be easy to fix (if Samsung fixes it)."

The blocking of the command wheels makes sense when setting the option to "Metering & AF Start + Lock" (see below), but it does not make any sense when setting the option to "AF Start + Lock".

Lets take a look in detail what the manual "for NX1 cameras with firmware version 1.30 or later" says exactly on page 189:

• AF Start: Perform the auto focus function.
• AF Start + Lock: Perform the auto focus function. Keep the auto exposure and focus lock functions on after shooting. (The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo.)
• Metering & AF start [default]: Set an optimum exposure by calculating the brightness of the focus area and perform the auto focus function at the same time.
• Metering & AF Start + Lock: Set an optimum exposure by calculating the brightness of the focus area and execute the auto focus function at the same time. Keep the auto exposure and focus lock functions on after shooting. (The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo.)

The section...

"Keep the auto exposure and focus lock functions on after shooting. (The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo.)"

...has obviously been copy/pasted there. As already explained in my previous response, this is misleading (i.e. wrong), because the option "AF Start + Lock" does not lock exposure (i.e. it does not lock shutter speed, and aperture, and it also does not lock ISO if set to auto-ISO). It only locks the command wheels, but it does not lock the automatic adjustment of these exposure settings. I tried it with my NX1. A couple of times. Really. Believe me!

The only thing it does is focussing, locking the focus, and locking the command wheels. The camera, however, will still adjust shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. That the command wheels are (b)locked here is a bug. I repeat: this is a bug. I already explained this a loooong time ago in another thread. My original post in this thread contained a link to that old post of mine.

But let me repeat it once more: the blocking of the command wheels is a bug. It is a bug.

Jan Behrens said:

To simply lock focus while maintaining control of everything else, use the AFL or AFL hold functions (depending on how exactly you want to take the picture).

Click to expand...

See my previous posts. Thank you.

Maybe someone else reading this thread can confirm that "AF Start + Lock" blocks the command wheels but still allows for automatic change of shutter speed, aperture, and ISO.

Kind Regards,
Jan Behrens

Click to expand...

It serves no purpose in your opinion, but that doesn't mean it serves no purpose in someone else's opinion.

As I said before, if you want to lock focus and still fiddle with manual controls, the option is available, you just don't want to use it.

Regarding the phrase "AF Start + Lock" , the complete statement in the manual as to the function of that command is as follows:

"Perform the auto focus function. Keep the auto exposure and focus lock functions on after shooting. (The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo.)"

Let us try some basic English.

"Perform the autofocus function", obviously, means do auto focus. Ok? Focus isn't actually locked at this point, but it stays at the last point of focus as it does under normal shutter operation. And since the controls are now locked out, pressing the shutter or some other control wont change that. You think that it is locking focus because it looks that way, but focus isn't locked, your controls are. If you doubt that, try using DMF after the control locks are in place - it doesn't work either. Because your controls are locked.

Next, "keep the auto exposure on after shooting", means keep doing auto exposure after shooting. Ok?

Next, "(the exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo.)". This is the bit that has you all bent out of shape. Obviously it refers to the physical controls. That would be your wheels and such. Ok?

Now, for the second function:

"Set an optimum exposure by calculating the brightness of the focus area and execute the auto focus function at the same time. Keep the auto exposure and focus lock functions on after shooting. (The exposure and focus remain locked even after you capture a photo.)"

This is the same as the last one, except that instead of "keep the auto exposure on after shooting", we have "Set an optimum exposure by calculating the brightness of the focus area". So, instead of keeping autoexposure on it sets the exposure and leaves it there. Ok?

And the rest of it is the same as the first function.

So, there you have it. The manual is explicit and describes what the camera actually does accurately. THERE IS NO BUG. The issue is not something wrong with the camera, the issue is YOU not liking how the functions have been implemented.